Shittest sequel

[Steven]

Is Hannibal the sequel to Silence Of the Lambs, or is Silence Of The Lambs the sequel to Manhunter? Can we swap this around and find awful films with great sequels?

[great_badir]

Is Hannibal the sequel to Silence Of the Lambs, or is Silence Of The Lambs the sequel to Manhunter? Can we swap this around and find awful films with great sequels?

I hope you're not saying Manhunter is awful...

It's 100 times the film Lambs is, let alone Hannibal.[NB]Don't even mention Red Dragon in the same breath[/NB]

[Steven]

I hope you're not saying Manhunter is awful...

Which Manhunter? There was one with Nic Cage you know..

[Blumf]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eG65DhUQ8_E

The first was a fairly decent and well meaning film. The sequel just gave Hot Shots Part Duex almost everything on a plate.

[great_badir]

Which Manhunter? There was one with Nic Cage you know..

Well, you were talking about Hannibal Lecter/Lecktor, so I assume you mean Michael Mann's Manhunter with Brian Cox as Lecktor.

Also, what's Nic Cage got to do with it?

[Stone Cold Jane Austen]

Here, have any of you seen Battle Royale 2? Abso-fucking-lute garbage

[Steven]

Also, what's Nic Cage got to do with it?

Oops, it was Edward Norton in Red Dragon, but it was a Manhunter remake wasn't it? It's a scene for scene copy. I prefer Silence Of The Lambs to the original Manhunter but I wasn't implying it was shit, I was just positing if there's been awful films with brilliant sequels as a question.

[great_badir]

Here, have any of you seen Battle Royale 2? Abso-fucking-lute garbage

I've rarely been so bored by a film with so much action.  On the other hand, I didn't think the first one was all that either.

[great_badir]

Oops, it was Edward Norton in Red Dragon, but it was a Manhunter remake wasn't it? It's a scene for scene copy. I prefer Silence Of The Lambs to the original Manhunter but I wasn't implying it was shit, I was just positing if there's been awful films with brilliant sequels as a question.

Red Dragon isn't so much a remake or scene-for-scene copy of Manhunter as, perhaps, a more faithful adaptation.  But it's still a terrible terrible film (hence my tag about it) - totally lacks the subtlety of Manhunter.

[Mijkediablo]

Here, have any of you seen Battle Royale 2? Abso-fucking-lute garbage

To be fair, the director died at some point whilst they were filming and was replaced by his son. Under those circumstances it was never gonna be an all-time great. Although even if he'd completed the film before carking it, it probably still wouldn't have been much good.

[Hollow]

Halloween II or Rob Zombie's Halloween II.

Both are total shite.

[Hollow]

Red Dragon isn't so much a remake or scene-for-scene copy of Manhunter as, perhaps, a more faithful adaptation.  But it's still a terrible terrible film (hence my tag about it) - totally lacks the subtlety of Manhunter.

Norton is utterly miscast, and then phones it in anyway, and that hair.

Red Dragon is shit for cunts...Manhunter is the shit.

[great_badir]

I was just positing if there's been awful films with brilliant sequels as a question.

I'm sure there are some more concrete and obvious examples that peeps will chime in with, but there is an increasing school of thought out there which will answer with Universal Soldier 4.

EDIT - just thought of one.  Return of the Killer Tomatoes.  Glorious silliness.[NB]Although I, personally, think that Attack is also quite good.  But most people think it's shit.[/NB]

EDIT 2 - and, even though I think all the prequels are beyond shit for cunts, most I'm sure will say Attack of the Clones.  And/or the other one.

[Puce Moment]

STOP GETTING SEQUELS WRONG! It's the 2nd in a series, not the 3rd or 4th, that's fucking easy and you might as well mention the Phantom Fucking Menace or something, come on boffins!

Not true. A sequel is the follow-up to something. Not necessarily the second.

In cinema parlance, it is mainly used to describe the second instalment, but not exclusively.

[Danger Man]

WHAT!?!?!?!?

Rocky 2 is just an immediate continuation of the first one.

That's why I mentioned it.

Obviously some people enjoy watching a sequel where everybody is three years older than the original, almost identical, movie and that's their choice.

[billtheburger]

^
That baby Stuart Hall?

[phantom_power]

The Matrix Reloaded - takes all the worst bits of the original film and doubles down, ignoring what made the first film so great

Exorcist II: The Heretic - no great fan of the original but streets ahead of this load of crud

Anchorman 2 - not awful and has some funny lines but such a sprawling, lazy mess of a film

[Serge]

Norton is utterly miscast, and then phones it in anyway, and that hair.

Not half as much as Harvey Keitel does - he may as well be standing there with the script in his hand and regularly checking his watch. I've rarely seen an actor giving so little of a shit about his role.

Anyway: Jurassic World. Lock thread.

[Glebe]

The ending feels a little limp, but overall I find Hannibal to be quite enjoyable. The last time I watched Manhunter I found it a little cheesy, but it's still a stylish, oddball romp with some great moments. Red Dragon is pretty leaden on the whole, Hopkins shouldn't have bothered. Hannibal Rising is pretty poor.

I love Robocop 2.  In some ways I prefer it over the (still amazing) original.  Murphy's robotic breakdown is a thing of beauty.  Granted, it does have more of an obvious comedy element as opposed to the original's satire, but it's still very well done.  It's also REALLY quite nasty.

Robocop 3 on the other hand...

Frank Miller wrote 2  (well, co-wrote apparently), which may account for the nasty stuff. Certainly recall the bit with

Spoiler alert

the guy being sliced open with a scalpel.

[close]

I think 3 went straight to DVD... Nancy Allen takes the lead, and it wasn't really terrible from what I recall.

It's not a great film, admittedly, but it does have some very good scenes (the Clark Kent/Superman fight, for instance) and that puts it steets ahead of IV. And I actually quite like Pryor in it!

Yep, and the opening sequence is nicely done. Haven't seen IV, from what I've seen and heard unintentional laughs abound.

[El Unicornio, mang]

[kngen]

To be fair, the director died at some point whilst they were filming and was replaced by his son. Under those circumstances it was never gonna be an all-time great. Although even if he'd completed the film before carking it, it probably still wouldn't have been much good.

I don't think any director, the original one or otherwise, could have made the sequel's not-Beat Takeshi a better, less hammy actor. If anyone ever tells me that watching subtitled films means you miss out on the nuances of acting, I point them towards this - he could make that film unwatchable in any language.

[great_badir]

Haven't seen IV, from what I've seen and heard unintentional laughs abound.

There is one genuinely funny (and very brief) bit of business Reeve does with a phone (or some phones), but otherwise even the unintentional laughs are few and far between - VERY cheap and nasty (as in tack) and incredibly dull.

[kngen]

Escape From LA - completely misses the point of what made Escape from NY one of the greatest B-movies of all time, and utterly shits all over its legacy.

[El Unicornio, mang]

Yep, and the opening sequence is nicely done. Haven't seen IV, from what I've seen and heard unintentional laughs abound.

The fact that they used an industrial park in Milton Keynes to stand in for the NYC United Nations building tells you all you need to know.

I love III though. "Both keys....at the same time??" The robot woman at the end still freaks me out.

[Hollow]

Escape From LA - completely misses the point of what made Escape from NY one of the greatest B-movies of all time, and utterly shits all over its legacy.

It's probably a parody on sequels if you think about it...quite good as one of them.

[Fabian Thomsett]

Three things I liked about Escape From L.A.

1. Steve Buscemi with soul patch and goatee.
2. The one man basketball game.
3. The ending.

Apart from that it's pretty underwhelming, yes.

I love III though.  The robot woman at the end still freaks me out.

Same here. Well, maybe it doesn't freak me out...but watching it at the end of last year I had a real "wow, this is pretty hardcore  for such a silly film" reaction to that scene.

[greenman]

I love Robocop 2.  In some ways I prefer it over the (still amazing) original.  Murphy's robotic breakdown is a thing of beauty.  Granted, it does have more of an obvious comedy element as opposed to the original's satire, but it's still very well done.  It's also REALLY quite nasty.

Robocop 3 on the other hand...

I would definitely agree with that, it loses some of the pathos of the original but really that was always going to happen but for all the talk of studio inference its actually an even more effective satire than the original.

Shifting the villain from a scenery chewing rogue exec to OCP generally and the Old Man as a deluded ruthless but not entirely selfish libertarian(why Frank Miller dislikes it I'd imagine) worked very well. Likewise the Kid becoming more of a Dick Jones Jnr was a very effective piss take of children being brainwashed into yuppie ideals.

Beyond that its just a very well made action film as well, the last time I remember seeing stop motion used and an excellent collection of original badguys.

[Hollow]

From what I've heard Carpenter was utterly averse to the idea of any sequels to his work, done by him anyway.

I think he made LA like that as a statement, i think that it's pretty obviously the case.

Far from being 'bad', i see it as his last proper film.

And the ending is badass.

[prwc]

Easy Rider 2 (Probably, I haven't watched it).

[Hollow]

I've always respected Robocop II, its a great action film that keeps the stylish presentation of the first admirably.

Some of the best practical SFX around too, end of an era.