What's wrong with being fat?

[Ronnie the Raincoat]

This is something I've wanted to ask for a while now, though it somewhat embarrassing me.  And apologies in advance for getting personal.

I hate being fat.  I've gained about a stone and a half in the past year, the majority of it after having an implant fitted.  I don't have an unhealthy diet but I undoubtedly don't do enough exercise.   My legs rub together.  My tummy sticks out, my already ample arse is now parodic and I generally want to boke when I look into the mirror.  Given that I'm also a shortarse, I look squat.  I feel ugly.

But I don't know why I hate being fat.  It's just some extra tissue on my body.  It makes me softer. It makes me younger looking.   One of my pet subjects is feminism and the media, so I know the bullshit tricks that are employed to make women hate themselves, and each other.  I want to punch my fist through the screen when I see another article on the Daily Mail castigating a woman for, "piling on the pounds", while yet another vilifies another for, "wasting away".  I know the shitty diets they promote week after week have been put there because of advertising or the fact that they got some free shit.  That people's bodies aren't even their own now.  They can be cut, reshaped, redone.  The ideal is not even real anymore. And yet adverts for mutilation of your body are casually displayed on London Underground next to Coke adverts.  The world has gone fucking insane.

Another one of my favourite things to read are fat acceptance blogs like Shapely Prose, the polemic of Naomi Wolf.  My head is completely in the camp of, "Who gives a fucking shit?  People are fat!"  I know that- before morbid obesity- being overweight doesn't have that much to do with how healthy someone is.  You can be perfectly healthy and fat.   I think repeated dieting is harmful, I think "lifestyle choices" like Weight Watches have inherently self-hating and unhealthy principles, bordering on religious, the cultivation of "good" and "bad" foods, of "sinning", of public weighing, confession and absolution. I've done the whole diet club thing and found it traumatic.  "You've put on a pound!  What did you do?"  "I ate tomatoes".  "OH NO! YOU CAN'T EAT TOMATOES!  THEY'RE FULL OF SUGAR!"  Eating disorder 101.

I don't subscribe to the idea that fat people are lazy (although I certainly am), smelly, stupid, ugly, whatever.  Because, y'know, it's just body tissue, it's not a fucking morality chip.  I balk when I hear people I previously thought to be intelligent and liberal talk about how fat people only have themselves to blame and should be charged double the tax just for breathing. Although I'm not huge, I have been, and I feel assaulted by that kind of shit.  And people usually pointedly say, "Oh, I don't mean you.  You're not THAT big".  Well, fuck!  Would I be less of a human being if I was?  Losing weight doesn't change who are you.  But the fantasy of it does.  It makes you fucking boring.  It distracts your energy.  And you put a life on hold.  "When I'm X weight, I'll do this".

I see my fat friends order salads when out at dinner when they really want something more (you're out, it's a treat, it's an indulgence), but are too ashamed to eat in case people look at them and think, "No wonder they're fat, what a pig".  I feel that way, and find myself feeling horrible for sticking the salad leaves on top of my shopping basket, hiding the bread below.  When I was very big, I felt judged, with everything I did.  People would shout shit at me in the street.  And apparently that's okay, because when you're fat, people have the right to tell you so.  It's disgusting.  And I hated the attention my size drew to me.  I wanted to tell people to FUCK RIGHT OFF when they called me a fat cunt or sang the Gossip as I walked past.  But no, instead I lost five stone so I didn't have to deal with it anymore.

And losing weight seems like an achievement akin to curing cancer.  I know it's difficult and all, but fuck, the wonderful stuff I've seen overlooked in company because someone lost a stone is breathtaking.  "You graduated?  Well done.  But wow, you lost a stone, you look AMAZING!  Oh my god, you're so slim now, it's an inspiration!"  People who knew me knew better than to comment on my weight loss given they knew it was done via unhealthy means and telling me how great I looked would just be reinforcing that. 

My logic is there.  But my heart isn't.  I do think that most people look better when they're not very overweight.  I hate myself for it. I find a lot of fat people attractive, like I do thin people, but when I see those hated, "Before/After" shots in weight loss brochures (where they put a bit of make up on the after shot), I think, "Y'know, you do look better".  I don't want people to feel they have to fit into a neat little box that dictates attractiveness.  But I'd fit in there myself, if I found it easier, if I could.  Nobody around me is telling me to lose weight.  In fact, quite the opposite.  I did lose a lot of weight, in May last year, I was 7st 10lbs, which for my height is fine, but which was shocking to people around me, given that I used to be 12 stone, and that I lost about half a stone within two weeks.  Everybody thought I looked weird and ill.  My boyfriend generally likes bigger women.  He likes the fact that they look stronger, and, given my frame (stupidly wide 80s shoulders, massive hips and boobs), being quite slim made me look bony. My natural weight- the one my body seems to keep returning to- is slightly overweight.  And it's nice and all, that he thinks I'm lovely, but it's not enough.

I know I'm not the only one who feels this way.  There must be a few of you out there who are mildly overweight (indeed, my BMI is only 27, but I feel elephantine.  I am aware some of my fear is from having an eating disorder in the past) but who think, "I need to lose weight".  But why?  At that weight, and really, even at the low end of an obese BMI, the risks to your health are minimal.  What is it really about?  Why do we want to be smaller?  Is it about getting healthy with exercise, or are you just afraid of staying fat because it feels like some sort of failure? The whole, "I don't want to be 40 and fat".  Why not? Who are we failing?  Is it fear of ridicule, since it seems that, with women at least, one of the worst things you can call them is fat?  What is so wrong with being overweight?

[Suttonpubcrawl]

I wasn't really fat, although my BMI was a little over 25 at one stage, but now I've lost quite a bit of weight through my wonderful no effort diet called "being a bicycle courier", I do feel a lot happier about my appearance. I just look a bit fitter and healthier, and my clothes fit better too, and I can wear things I couldn't before. Unfortunately, when I get a new job (which I'm working on at the moment), I am going to balloon up pretty quickly.

[Saucer51]

When an individual reaches a certain weight, clearly their health is going to suffer. That is the "crime" as far as I'm concerned, but it hurts no-one but the large person, so people should stfu. I personally find very large people unsightly but again my distaste is really something I have to deal with and I wouldn't dream of inflicting my opinion upon them. I have occasionally seen the way members of the public stare and whisper and laugh at plumpies and I believe that it is the last bastion of bullying left that won't land an aggressor in jail!

I have a fat bottom, size 14 on a good day. I recall a few years ago mistakenly wandering into a couture shop out of my area and suddenly realising that they didn't cater for anyone over the size of 12. I asked for confirmation of this and as I was leaving I heard one sniggering and incredulous bitch shop assistant ask her colleague for clarification of what I'd just enquired. So funny, you see.

But I find it interesting that at the time when there has never been more pressure on people, mostly women, to be stick-thin, the obesity levels are apparently rising.

I agree about certain tabloids tut-tutting at female stars being a couple of pound overweight. Some magazines are culprits too; extolling the virtues of feminism, sisterhood and individuality on one hand, then producing finger wagging articles.

[Ronnie the Raincoat]

Magazines are the biggest culprits of all.  Hypocrites, everyone of them.  Women's magazines are utterly corrosive to the "sisterhood".

[koeman]

I'm currently at Weightwatchers trying to shed a stone or two because I had yet again become really unhappy with seeing photos of myself where I was mainly chin, and seeing this huge belly appear over the top of my jeans every time I sat down. I was stick thin as a teenager, and then fat ever since my student days, and the happiest I've been in that time is when I first did Weightwatchers four years ago and struck a happy medium (and could happily wear medium t-shirts without any bulges). Why am I happier being thinner? Mainly because I feel fitter. I can get around a football pitch or a squash court must better. And, partly, because I don't have a great deal of confidence, and feeling fat makes me feel unattractive, and I think a lot of that is down to the fact that it's not just women who the media make feel shit about their weight.

[Backstage With Slowdive]

Gemma Ward, supermodel betrayed

[Ronnie the Raincoat]

But I'm interested in why we find fat people "unslightly" (which is strange because it implies people have a responsibility to be nice to look at) and why we find ourselves unslightly when we're fat.  Is it because of the cultural implications of fatness, like laziness etc?  This has changed since the last century when fatness used to signify wealth and opulence (which it does, to some extent, with men these days, such as the stereotypical image of wealthy businessmen, "fat cats").

[vrailaine]

I thought the reason models were so thin was because they were to basically function as clotheshangers?

[the midnight watch baboon]

why we find fat people "unslightly"

excellent typo!

[Suttonpubcrawl]

But I'm interested in why we find fat people "unslightly"

Unsightly.

This has changed since the last century when fatness used to signify wealth and opulence (which it does, to some extent, with men these days, such as the stereotypical image of wealthy businessmen, "fat cats").

"Fat cats" is just a figure of speech though, isn't it? If you asked people to describe their mental picture of a fat cat boss, I doubt many would describe an actual obese man.

[koeman]

Yes, I think 'fat cat' derives from an analogy to a cat greedy for food rather than from some corpulent corporate bod.

[Ronnie the Raincoat]

Unsightly.

"Fat cats" is just a figure of speech though, isn't it? If you asked people to describe their mental picture of a fat cat boss, I doubt many would describe an actual obese man.

Ha, I love my typo.

I think in general it's more acceptable for successful people to be fat, like businessmen. It's not the same for women.  But it's a massive argument to have so I'll leave it.

[boxofslice]

Is it because we associate fat with being unhealthy?

[koeman]

I think in general it's more acceptable for successful people to be fat, like businessmen. It's not the same for women.  But it's a massive argument to have so I'll leave it.

You're almost certainly right, going on the masses of evidence, but it doesn't feel like it to this particular overweight, reasonably successful businessman.

[rudi]

But I find it interesting that at the time when there has never been more pressure on people, mostly women, to be stick-thin, the obesity levels are apparently rising.

I don't understand this; since when? Before the 20th Century you were lucky if you could afford to get fat, the 1920s fashions demanded not just thin but titless too, 50s went for the equally dificult to achieve hourglass then it was back to skinny birds in minis. There's no extra pressure now; it's just harder to not get fat.

[biggytitbo]

I've got a fat chin.

And fat lips like a jackknifed hovercraft.

[El Unicornio, mang]

Is it because we associate fat with being unhealthy?

In modern day western civilization, yes. There have definitely been periods in time where being fat has been considered a sign of health and affluence though.

[Pedro_Bear]

Name 'em. Name the times and places where obesity has been considered desirable. There are, I think, three, of which one is contemporary.

Well fed is not the same as obese. That there famous painting of Aphrodite in the seashell is not depicting an obese woman. Health has always been venerated; obesity is unhealthy.

Losing weight doesn't change who are you.

Try it. You'll soon find out how wrong that statement is.

[Danger Man]

Try it. You'll soon find out how wrong that statement is.

Sorry, can you try that again with a few random images from Weekly Shonen Jump? Thanks.

[Pedro_Bear]

[Ronnie the Raincoat]

Try it. You'll soon find out how wrong that statement is.

Didn't you read my fucking message?  The whole thing centred around the fact I have lost 5 stone.  I went from over 12 stone to 8st 7lbs then lost 10lbs due to stress which put me at 7st 10lbs.  I'm now 9st 3lbs.  I regained one and a half of it on the implant which nudges me into a slightly overweight BMI.  I did lose fucking weight.  I lost it through throwing up my guts for a year.  All it did was make me cranky and pissed off.  Losing weight and people complimenting on the weight loss I got from extreme dieting then an eating disorder just made me terrified of gaining it again.  And don't go into losing weight healthily because I gained weight on antipsychotic medication and maintained the weight loss by being healthy, and I am healthy.  I am eating healthier than I have ever done in my life and I'm still a bit overweight but people like you would fucking look at me and assume I shoved cake in my face.  I was the unhealthiest I had ever been when I was at my thinnest.   So read my fucking post first, eh? 

It's that kind of bullshit thinking that makes people ashamed of themselves.  You can't hate people for their own good.  Change your outsides and you'll change your insides eh.

Edit: pissed off, sorry.  But fucking read before you hit submit.

As for obesity, there is a difference between obesity and morbid obesity.

http://kateharding.net/faq/but-dont-you-realize-fat-is-unhealthy/

And thin people can be as unhealthy as fat people.  You can't fucking tell how healthy someone is by looking at them.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Try it. You'll soon find out how wrong that statement is.

Cor. You cunt.

[thehungerartist]

Try it. You'll soon find out how wrong that statement is.

Top, top bitchiness there - proof positive that PB is indeed female.

[vrailaine]

And losing weight seems like an achievement akin to curing cancer.

I dunno about that. It's moreso a type of compliment which they expect to be received well because the person is obviously after putting self-conscious work into and it wasn't something they HAD to do. I can't figure out how to word this. Blah!

[Nik Drou]

I was fat for the longest time in my life and it was very much a contributor to my general depression and low self-esteem.  Those things are still lurking out and about since I lost the weight, but at least I can now look in the mirror and conceive of someone actually finding me attractive.  I'm happier now, though I still have a way to go in terms of getting properly in shape and being sexy and all that.

I can't pretend that fat or image don't matter, as they patently do to the majority of us.  An overweight person can certainly appear more attractive and healthy than an underweight person (see Rachel Bilson if you like) but once you cross a certain margin you give the impression of someone who has 'let themselves go'.  I sometimes wonder if losing the weight made me more or less sympathetic towards people's fat-based laments.  On one hand, I absolutely know what it's like to feel you'll always be large and there's nothing you can do.  On the other hand, the solution was so bloody simple. 

I ate less, put more fruit and veg in my diet and exercised more.  Oh, and if you can contract one or two debilitating stomach viruses that ruin your constitution so you can't eat Nothing But Pizza all the time without feeling queasy, that helps too.

Yes, there's an unfair amount of social pressure, particularly on women, to adhere to a bizarrely specific body-type.  Yes, there are various conditions that can affect one's metabolism, making it harder to achieve and maintain an 'ideal' weight. And yes, being thin is not necessarily healthier. But anyone who tells you they or you can't lose weight is lying or mistaken.  It's not the be-all and end-all by any means, but it can be key to someone effectively reclaiming their lives.  People don't have to be overweight if they truly don't want to.  It's no use attacking people's shallowness on this matter when you can't look at yourself in the nude and like what you see (which is kind of ironic when I think about it at 2 in the morning).

Basically, if you're overweight and don't want to be, don't let it be said by peers and junk-munching pseudos that you can't lose weight, or that you're shallow, or that having big thigh burns after jogging to the bus station is just God straddling your lap .  If you're overweight and feel fine about it, don't let people call you a big fatty fat pants who needs to lose weight because they are fat. 

Make sure you're healthy, make sure you're happy.

[Johnny Yesno]

Try it. You'll soon find out how wrong that statement is.

If you're speaking from experience then it's not always for the better, though, eh?

[Zero Gravitas]

This could be going in an interesting direction.



Or at least one hopes.

[Winjer]

I was fat for the longest time in my life and it was...

What? Surely the longest time of your life to date is between you being born and me pressing this here 'post' button. Assuming you're still alive since posting? Hehe: maximum pedantry. ;o)

I haven't been a fatty since a pork scratching and lager addiction in a my early teens, but have recently been going to the gym loads and have toned up to the point where I can get a visual on my stomach muscles if I apply the necessary tensing.

Now, I never believed I was that vein, but now that I've gotten to a certain state I'm always checking myself out in the mirror when showering.

So, what I'm saying is that it might not be outright vanity but if there are certain things about yourself that you're proud of then it's perfectly normal to have a secret gloat about?

Like: 'I'm cool, I sorted out my overdraft'/'sorted all that shite out at work'/'six-packs coming on a treat'.

Umm, It's early but what I seem to be saying is that health/fitness is one of the facets of your life not the whole shebang.

[Danger Man]

Make sure you're healthy, make sure you're happy.

That's it in a nutshell, isn't it?

As someone who has seen their BMI go from 21 to 38 in the last ten years I have to admit that I find this thread very interesting.

What kind of fatty am I? One with a really big beer belly, basically. But if it's true that anorexics look in the mirror and always see a fat person staring back at them then I must have the opposite problem because in spite of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, I just don't consider myself to be 'fat'. If I continue thinking (and drinking) like this I'm going to end up like the character trapped in his bedroom in Bellamy's people. I wonder when my 'moment of truth' will arrive?

On the positive side I don't seem to have any of the problems of 'self-esteem' that many other 'fatsos' have. Perhaps the problem isn't so much about self-respect but my not respecting anyone else. I really couldn't care less what people think about me and if anyone was stupid enough to comment of my 'obesity' they could expect, at the very least, a withering sneer to appear on my podgy face (if not an outright torrent of abuse) Which makes me, I suppose, this type of fatty...



Perhaps coming to fatness later in life has helped, that and having been very thin, and having had quite a successful career, and a happy marriage, and being male and so on means that I don't have any of the issues that seems to surround fatness.

Or am I kidding myself? My father was a thin, teetotal vegetarian who died in his 40's so maybe I've subconsciously decided to go the other way....

[Danger Man]

Here's an example of what weight loss can do to a person.

The Peter Jackson who made 'Lord of the Rings'



The Peter Jackson who made 'The Lovely Bones' (probably after rediscovering his own)




There's a connection to be made there somewhere.