What's wrong with being fat?

[mini goatbix]

My logic is there.  But my heart isn't.  I do think that most people look better when they're not very overweight.  I hate myself for it. I find a lot of fat people attractive, like I do thin people, but when I see those hated, "Before/After" shots in weight loss brochures (where they put a bit of make up on the after shot), I think, "Y'know, you do look better".  I don't want people to feel they have to fit into a neat little box that dictates attractiveness.  But I'd fit in there myself, if I found it easier, if I could.  Nobody around me is telling me to lose weight.  In fact, quite the opposite.  I did lose a lot of weight, in May last year, I was 7st 10lbs, which for my height is fine, but which was shocking to people around me, given that I used to be 12 stone, and that I lost about half a stone within two weeks.  Everybody thought I looked weird and ill.  My boyfriend generally likes bigger women.  He likes the fact that they look stronger, and, given my frame (stupidly wide 80s shoulders, massive hips and boobs), being quite slim made me look bony. My natural weight- the one my body seems to keep returning to- is slightly overweight.  And it's nice and all, that he thinks I'm lovely, but it's not enough.

I know I'm not the only one who feels this way.  There must be a few of you out there who are mildly overweight (indeed, my BMI is only 27, but I feel elephantine.  I am aware some of my fear is from having an eating disorder in the past) but who think, "I need to lose weight".  But why?  At that weight, and really, even at the low end of an obese BMI, the risks to your health are minimal.  What is it really about?  Why do we want to be smaller?  Is it about getting healthy with exercise, or are you just afraid of staying fat because it feels like some sort of failure? The whole, "I don't want to be 40 and fat".  Why not? Who are we failing?  Is it fear of ridicule, since it seems that, with women at least, one of the worst things you can call them is fat?  What is so wrong with being overweight?

I understand completely what you're describing, but it reads like you're living paradoxcially.

Putting aside the health problems of being overweight and focussing on the paranoia about being fat, it sounds like you're just describing conditioning - obsession with how you look, castigating yourself for not being perfect, it's how the beauty industry wants you to feel so you spend more money. And I know you understand that but then you describe returning to the sources of the brainwashing, you keep reading the magazines, looking at the websites, reaffirming the bullshit message. That's why you can logically reason why your weight is not more important than your health, but still live in a paranoid frenzy. Just stop reading the magazines, don't go asking strangers if fat is bad (when you know that at least a few will say it is) instead recondition your brain by paying attention to healthy thinking.

Sorry if I'm getting lectursome, this makes me angry, not at you but at how effective the meeja is as fucking with people.

[Pedro_Bear]

Didn't you read my fucking message? 

Yeah, I read it; who could miss it? The internet was well and truly stuffed with a lavish banquet of negativity, defeat and cognitive dissonance with that first post, and you're coming back to force-feed it moar?

...I lost it through throwing up my guts for a year.  All it did was make me cranky and pissed off...

...because that is so the right way to loose weight, so normal, eh? Fat people are so stupid.

PROTIP: this is clearly something that you are concerned about, and yet also something which you are not concerned about enough to actively take command of it.

Either lay it down forever, get on with being you, fat or not.

Or change your blasé attitude towards food and exercise, and stop craving reasons not to do so, fathead.

It is not the media's fault. It is not a feminist issue. It's you not taking a practical interest in your own physical constitution or the way it influences your self-esteem because it is easier to displace inaction onto poorly-defined, phantom targets than take control.

If you're speaking from experience then it's not always for the better, though, eh?

Deep.

Cor. You cunt.

Derp. no u. Do not feed the fat attention whore rationalising her own self-destruction on-line with FUCKING AWFUL THREADS LIKE THIS.

[Jemble Fred]

Bye now Pedro Bear, the single worst poster in over ten years of Cookdandbombd.

[madhair60]

Bye now Pedro Bear, the single best poster in over ten years of Cookdandbombd.

fix'd

It's actually good advice if you read it, instead of just noticing the username and picking an insult from a Word document.

[JPA]

Do not feed the fat attention whore rationalising her own self-destruction on-line with FUCKING AWFUL THREADS LIKE THIS.

You really are a fucking cunt aren't you PB?

[boxofslice]

I kind of get where PB is coming from.  Too many people are happy to blame their problems on this (magazines, media) and that (other people) without taking responsibility for themselves.

[Milo]

It's actually good advice if you read it

It's not really though, it's extremely juvenile over-simplification, the sort that completely misses the fact that people are not machines that can be precisely controlled at all times. It's pretty much the same sort of guff I used to come out with when I was 17, along with stuff like, "why don't those drug addicts just stop taking drugs?!"

Reality and behaviour are a lot more complicated.

[Danger Man]

You really are a fucking cunt aren't you PB?

Steady on. It's only to be expected that somebody whose brain is rotten with anime characters will fly into a rage if forced to consider the concept of 'fat' women.

He's also still bitter that he's never met a woman with eyes that cover a third of her face.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

PROTIP: blah blah blah me me me me me me me

PROTIP: Loose and lose are two different words.

[biggytitbo]

I used to be very chubby when I was younger. But one day I woke up and I was really thin.

Don't know what the fuss is all about, just do what I did.

[Hank_Kingsley]

Q: What's wrong with being a cat like robot from the future?

A: Everything.

[Pedro_Bear]

ARRRRRGHH MY PERSONAL TRAINER CUT MY ARM OFF GUISE

WEIGHT LOSS SUUUUUUUUCKSSS IT'S THE MEEEJA'S FAULT

[23 Daves]

It's not really though, it's extremely juvenile over-simplification, the sort that completely misses the fact that people are not machines that can be precisely controlled at all times. It's pretty much the same sort of guff I used to come out with when I was 17, along with stuff like, "why don't those drug addicts just stop taking drugs?!"

Reality and behaviour are a lot more complicated.

It's not completely true - some of those "Get a grip on yourself!" styled rants can motivate people in the right direction.  The problem is they tend to motivate people who are quite self-confident and self-assured in the first place - and therefore unlikely to actually have many real problems.  You can yell at a stockbroker friend of yours (if you have one - does anybody, apart from other stockbrokers?) to just go down the fucking gym a bit more frequently, but otherwise, those kinds of rants just achieve nothing, and in many cases may have the opposite effect. 

What's curious for me is that I've definitely been told at some points in my life that I'm 'too skinny' or even 'unattractively skinny', as if it were a conscious decision I'd made.  In reality, I just had a lot of energy and exercised a hell of a lot, nothing vigorous, but I thought little of walking three miles home from college rather than taking the bus*.  And I was vegetarian at the time - the two factors played a big part.  I used to argue that I had a fast metabolism, but looking back it's clear there were other lifestyle factors going on (dare I say it, healthy ones?).  Still, it was noticeable that people thought they were allowed to say quite unflattering things about the way I looked, often shoving snack food in my direction at parties and saying "Here you are, you need to EAT more".

My point is that most people seem to have an aversion to extreme body types, and I have to wonder if that's always been there and is instinctive. Oh, and incidentally, by "extreme body types" I am talking about obviously underweight and morbidly obese people, not women in size 16 dresses or whatever. 

_{(*This habit started when I was at school - my parents used to give me the money to get the bus every morning, but said "If you start walking into school instead, and pocket the money for yourself, we'll look the other way".  Looking back, that's a genius tip for any parents worried about their cherubs not getting enough exercise).}

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

The person themselves looking healthy is more important than how fat/thin they are. I find you can usually tell from a person's frame what general weight would be natural for them.

[Pedro_Bear]

[23 Daves]

The person themselves looking healthy is more important than how fat/thin they are. I find you can usually tell from a person's frame what general weight would be natural for them.

Hmmm... I was only very slightly underweight, and when I went to get myself checked over at the GPs (I actually bothered to ask about this, although only whilst there with another health problem) my BMI was actually just about average.  Now I know BMI isn't a necessarily the best gauge of these things, but I don't think I looked starving.

Now I'm bang in the middle of an average BMI range most people don't say a thing, of course, but I still sometimes get people misguidedly calling me 'skinny' rather than 'of average build'. 

Some people do look better with a bit more or a bit less meat on them, but is that their 'natural best state' or just a fluke of circumstances?  Women who carry most of their weight around their stomach or their thighs generally aren't considered as attractive as those who carry it around their bust and bum, for example, and whilst one version of fat distribution is slightly healthier than the other, I wouldn't argue that either state is healthier than being an average weight necessarily.  In fact, there's a theory which suggests that women whose body fat congregates largely around their waist only have that shape due to sources of stress in their lives, so it may (emphasis on 'may') have nothing to do with what shape you're supposedly naturally predisposed to taking when you gain weight.

Like a lot of current theories on weight-gain, however, which is a real pet research topic amongst researchers desperate for funding, this could be taken with a pinch of salt.  Not too much salt though, eh chaps?  Arf.

[Milo]

If we're talking about attractiveness as relating to how 'healthy' a person looks, it's quite hard to directly apply that to the places on the body that fat is distributed. Although it's well known that fat around the waist is more closely related to health problems, those problems only realistically manifest past reproductive age and likely a long-way past the typical lifespan during the bulk of our evolutionary history.

I take this as supporting the idea that attractiveness isn't totally instinctive - ie; we don't instinctively know that somebody is more attractive because they look healthier due to their fat distribution as this would never become genetically coded into our behaviour.

This would support the idea that only a small amount of what we view as attractive now is anything in-built, but rather it's largely (teehee) constructed by our environment - that is to say, by our massive, massive peer group.

EDIT TO ADD: Though I have just totally missed the point that additional fat around the hip area and bust could magnify the few things men may be hardwired into finding attractive due to how they relate to fertility and potential fitness to successfully reproduce. D'oh. I have now effectively said nothing.

AND ANOTHER THING: I suppose I could alter this to say that while fat around the hips and bust could be instinctively more attractive, fat anywhere else should be neutral as far as attractiveness goes.

[Friendly_Milk]

Once again, Daves comes in and talks the most sense.

I went from over 12 stone to 8st 7lbs then lost 10lbs due to stress which put me at 7st 10lbs.  I'm now 9st 3lbs

None of these I would really regard as fat.   In fact, anything under 8 stone (even for a tiny petite woman) is usually too thin IMO. 

Your current weight is about average for a slim woman with a decent pair and arse, Ronnie.   The weight fluctuation is more worrying more than anything - mainly because you are putting a lot of stress on yourself.    Implants (i think I know what kind) can do this to a person. 

I have a lot of natural muscle which means I weigh more than I look.  But I am still a size 10-12 and recently lost half a stone through diet and exercise.   I weigh about the same as you, Ronnie.  A few pounds more and I'm 5ft 2".  I am not fat.

And as for attractiveness - it's very very cultural.    Many men in Turkey, West Africa and the Carribean prefer women who are at least a size 16 in the UK.   In Brazil they like small pert bosoms and big round backsides.    And to those who say 'obese has never been attractive, historically' has never seen much historic porn.  Big fat arses were especially popular in the 18th century.

[Milo]

I think it was in Burmese Days where they talked about oriental men getting more attractive with weight - something to do with them growing outwards very symmetrically and roundly, rather than white people depositing fat unevenly.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

None of these I would really regard as fat.   In fact, anything under 8 stone (even for a tiny petite woman) is usually too thin IMO. 

All those are, are numbers. Being overweight or underweight- being unhealthily so, is something you can see from your own eyes. Not only people's size but their shape, their manner, their complexion/pallor. Often in both cases there is a lack of nutrition, for example.

I've been out with a tiny petite woman who weighed under 8 stone- way (weigh) under 8 stone actually, but she wasn't too thin, she just looked about right for her size.

And to those who say 'obese has never been attractive, historically' has never seen much historic porn.  Big fat arses were especially popular in the 18th century

That's not obesity.

[Sony Walkman Prophecies]

Like alot of people i dont necessarily find obese people attractive, but at the same time its not like im going to burn them at the stake for making me feel abit 'yucky'. As with most areas of life i try to give people the benefit of the doubt - there are around half a dozen reasons why someone might be clinically overweight (failure to properly regulate insulin, hyper-active thyroid, double the average no. of fat cells) and none of these have anything to with moral integrity. To make a blanket remark that all fat people should 'take some more responsibility for themselves' would be as evil and wrong as telling someone with cancer to stop being so stubbornly sick.

Either way, the current vilification of fat people is very odd indeed - even taking it as an instance of physical addiction, obesity seems to provoke a blind primal hatred in people that would never dream of reacting in the same way to a junkie or an alcoholic. Im not exactly sure why that is. Maybe Dawkins can explain it all with evolutionary biology, but then i wouldnt be surprised that you could find at least a handful of cultures where you dont find this sort of attitude atall. Very strange.

[Jemble Fred]

That's not obesity.

Well George IV certainly liked them the bigger the better – imagine Benny Hill in The Italian Job, but moreso. Some rich women ended up giving themselves gout to have the fashionable 'yards of white flesh' look, which would easily equate to obesity with current standards.

[Treguard of Dunshelm]

Either way, the current vilification of fat people is very odd indeed - even taking it as an instance of physical addiction, obesity seems to provoke a blind primal hatred in people that would never dream of reacting in the same to say, a junkie or an alcoholic. Im not exactly sure why that is, maybe Dawkins can explain it all with evolutionary biology, but then i wouldnt be surprised that you could find at least a handful of cultures where you dont find this sort of attitude atall. Very strange.

Perhaps it's projection - they're afraid of being obese themselves?

Or maybe jealousy: "I wish I could eat that many pies and cakes, YOU FAT BASTARD DIE DIE"

[Friendly_Milk]

I should clarify. Being under 8 stone is subjective, yes.   And healthy and weight to not go hadn in hand.  The BMI is a nonsense according.   A good friend of mine weighs around this but she is half Asian and even then, not a size 0.  A size 0 means (according to most American clothes retailers) having a 31 inch chest measurement and 23 inch waist.  To be that tiny is impossible for most adult Caucasian women.

That's not obesity.

You probably haven't seen what I am talking about.    In the 17th and 18th century, they found women with a double chin to be attractive.   Nell Gwyn was described as chubby.   

[Borboski]

Personally I think girls who are not really "in shape" can be pretty, but I don't find attractive:
1. Double chins
2. Wobbly love handles
3. Chubby bellies

Now, I never really thought otherwise, but until I lost weight, sorted out my diet, etc, I wouldn't have thought it legimate to really have that perspective.

It just seems obvious to me that in terms of physical appearance having a body which reflects an active lifestyle suggests a load of basic things about someone. 

And by and large if you see a girl whose a bit of a fatty the partner she's with is a bit of a fatty (I wanted to cram in a bi and large joke here but couldn't think of one). 

Looking back my diet was very much influenced by my family, my mum is very obese and I don't think she did me any favours in this respect.  It's not just how you look as well, I basically missed out on playing sports at any decent level because how I was raised.

[Pedro_Bear]

In the 17th and 18th century, they found women with a double chin to be attractive.   Nell Gwyn was described as chubby.   

Examples of obesity being venerated by European cultures?!



Oh, you're typing shit, phew.

[Hank_Kingsley]

Steve Albini explains the Nate Kato five-step tit measurement scheme:

The gig tonight is in a college, but thankfully not a college-sponsored students-only jive. At least nobody will get turned away. We're playing with a lousy mess of a band, the Unbelievables, and a Velvet Undergroundish band called the Dustmice or Dustballs or Dustweasels or something. They have a real dish for a guitar player. She's got that emaciated no-tits, near-dead look I go for in a big way. Using the patented Nate Kato five-step tit measurement scheme (tots, tits, boobs, jugs and dugs), she has tits, I would say. Definitely not tots, as you could see a quite active wiggling going on when she played guitar, but there was no real heft to them, so they wouldn't qualify as boobs. That bizarre leather nazi bitch in Hamburg, however, she had dugs. One of them had a pimple on it the size of a regular person's boob. We're talking "D" for "droopy", "U" for "ogly", "G" for "giant", "S" for "squeaks like a balloon" -- DUGS. While I was trying to avoid talking to her, her thumbnail-sized bra cup gave up the ghost and this whole, complete, drug- addled, blue-plate special-sized nipple jounced out into the world. She was oblivious, and became fodder for much ribaldry. The Arliss of Hamburg

I'm personally on the side of Jugs. I like some heft going on.

Real chubsticles (when the rolls have rolls etc.) ain't my bag but I like some extra padding, what real man doesn't? Women's flesh is luxurious. Like Crabtree and Evelyn products or silk pyjamas.

[Friendly_Milk]

Examples of obesity being venerated by European cultures?!

Oh, you're typing shit, phew.

You clearly know nothing about history.   Stick to shit looking cartoons, mate.

[ziggy starbucks]

I hate being crude but I feel the need to inform the world that I've just done a poo that weighs more than Ronnie the Raincoat. The density of the thing was staggering. I can still hear the sewage pipes groaning and creaking as the fucker inches its way down.

Unbelievable

[Pedro_Bear]

You clearly know nothing about history.   Stick to shit looking cartoons, mate.

no u, dipshit. Examples of artist renditions of obesity being venerated in European cultures or GTFO. PROTIP: there aren't any.