What would you cut?

[Backstage With Slowdive]

As we enter an era of austerity budgets, and we have to burn biggytitbo to keep warm, what unnecessary public expenditure can we get rid of?

[Zero Gravitas]

Burn this!

Stupid fucking whore tree of symbols doesn't even know that Poisson disc is too slow for real-time usage!

[Shaun]

For some reason I expected this to be a thread about self-harm.

[Zero Gravitas]

Fire all the web-developers, they're all tiresome cunts anyway.

[rudi]

Nothing. It's going to be fine.

[ThickAndCreamy]

Defence and Nuclear budgets. Pull out of Afganistan and disarm all of our nuclear weapons, holding jointly a small number with another European country if need be.

[sirhenry]

Cut the number of quangos to 5.
(And T&C's cuts)

[biggytitbo]

Al the easy stuff that usually gets mentioned would only be a scratch on the problem. We'd have to cut the NHS and especially the welfare budgets, like Ireland recently did to avoid becoming like Iceland and Greece.

However, what I think will probably happen is Brown will get back in and we'll just print lots of money, keep spending, and inflate our way out of debt and into fiscal oblivion. Should be a right laugh!

[MojoJojo]

Useful graph to inform the discussion a bit:



From here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_budget

Personally, I'm amazed that education and social protection make up such a big part.

[Jemble Fred]

I'd definitely cut 'other', it's not a service that's been of any use to me.

And ban sport. That's not actually anything to do with cuts, although I'm sure pubic funding comes into it. Just ban sport. Tell the world we're cancelling the Olympics because 'It's utterly, utterly futile.'

[Friendly_Milk]

I'd definitely cut 'other', it's not a service that's been of any use to me.

And ban sport. That's not actually anything to do with cuts, although I'm sure pubic funding comes into it. Just ban sport. Tell the world we're cancelling the Olympics because 'It's utterly, utterly futile.'

JEMBLE FOR MAYOR!

[biggytitbo]

Useful graph to inform the discussion a bit:



From here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_budget

Personally, I'm amazed that education and social protection make up such a big part.

Thats a bit out of date now. The debt interest is closing in on £50 billion a year.  Income tax receipts in 2009 were £150 billion, so about £1 in £3 that you pay in income tax goes to pay interest on the governments spiraling debts. Debt interest is almost as big as the total housing and transport budgets put together. And benefit payments alone are comfortably bigger than the entire income tax take.

But its fine, really.

[boxofslice]

Start off with little things like killing the royal family and becoming a republic and close all prisons and turn the Isle of Man into a penal colony letting the prisoners fight it out for themselves like in Escape from New York.  Yeah, stuff like that.

[Jemble Fred]

Nobody going to point out that I accidentally missed out an L up there? And wrote 'pubic funding'? Like, you know, genital hair funding? Oh well.

[phes]

cut it cut it

[_Hypnotoad_]

Frank Field says;

"We have to say that the welfare rules are changing; there will be a job guarantee, but after four weeks if you don't take the job, there'll be no more benefits."

[biggytitbo]

Surely there aren't enough jobs available for that to work? <1 million vacancies and at least 2.5 million unemployed.

[_Hypnotoad_]

Certainly I can't see the whole job guarantee thing, but it seems there are concerns that we are no longer able to afford the current benefits structure

I was thinking on the way in this morning as I passed the sandwich girl in her little truck. Why would anyone take on these minimum wage jobs that surely can't provide any more than a bedsit to rent, and certainly no prospect of home ownership, when an alternative of sitting on the dole with your rent paid beckons?

I'm not advocating a Daily Heil style benefits witchhunt, I'm just genuinely interested in this gaping chasm between what benefits would pay for, and the otherwise largely unaffordable state of UK housing, for purchase and rent, if you go it alone

[hpmons]

Useful graph to inform the discussion a bit:



From here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_budget

Personally, I'm amazed that education and social protection make up such a big part.

I say we cut debt; debt is a bad thing, I don't want to spend money on it.

[sirhenry]

Why would anyone take on these minimum wage jobs that surely can't provide any more than a bedsit to rent, and certainly no prospect of home ownership, when an alternative of sitting on the dole with your rent paid beckons?

To stop yourself vegetating and develop some sense of self-worth? To escape the harrassment of being on the dole long-term?

One thing that isn't on that chart is the billions paid annually on all those spanking new academies, so that can go for a start. It wouldn't quite ruin the construction industry, but it would put it back on a level playing field (which is what they built on in the first place).

Edit: as hpmons says, it's time to bring the Cancel The Debt campaign back home.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

I've been on housing benefit and job seekers allowance and that only just covered the rent. Utilities, food money? Forget about it. I had to ask for help from my parents. The idea of sitting back on the dole as an individual without any support other than that which the state provides is frightening. The idea any of that will be taken away from individuals makes me very fearful indeed. A country that can experience economic growth with that expenditure on social protection is one that can afford to keep it.

[_Hypnotoad_]

To stop yourself vegetating and develop some sense of self-worth? To escape the harrassment of being on the dole long-term?

Yeah i was playing devils advocate a bit, I understand the self-esteem benefits and all that, but for a lot of people that just doesn't enter the equation.

I see a future of enforced benefit changes in line with Frank Field's claims, but in general lower housing costs as we enter stage two of the great crash. Landlords can ask insane amounts from the housing benefits office currently in line with the skewed private rental market that is being pulled in one direction by increased landlord costs, and much weaker in the other by the realism of what people can actually spend.

A friend of mine works long hours in what would typically be seen as a decent blue collar job, has two kids, and has massively subsidised rents by the council due to the fact he simply cannot afford to live any other way.

Perversely, by insisting on propping up house prices at this arbitrary but so obviously over-inflated level, the government are having to pay out huge sums in rent subsidy.

A country that can experience economic growth with that expenditure on social protection is one that can afford to keep it.

We can't though can we, that's why we're in debt. Housing costs are the problem, which the government are making worse (see above)

[biggytitbo]

Indeed, house prices and rents are so out of control and we have a situation where there is such little social housing available that certain councils are paying over a £1000 a week to some families in housing benefits alone:
http://www.insidehousing.co.uk/story.aspx?storycode=6508684

Westminster Council, which led the letter, says it currently pays over £1,600 a week in rent for 26 families. Philippa Roe, cabinet member for housing, said: 'Common sense dictates that the current system is not fit for purpose and needs to be changed. This isn't simply a Westminster issue as it impacts on councils across London and the UK.'

The problem with the idea of economic growth getting us out of this mess is that we put at least £200 billion into the economy and got 0.1% growth. The sad fact is our 'growth' over the last 10 years has been almost entirely due to the massive debt binge we went on. We can't have more growth without debt and we can't have more debt. That = no growth for a good few years. At current rates of expenditure debt interest alone is going to hit £87 billion in the next 4-5 years. We're going to have to cannibalise the budgets of other departments just to pay the interest, and that's just to stand still without cutting a penny of the actual deficit.

As the phoney war is over and we have an election then we're going to get the truth and its not going to be pretty.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Quote from: Shoulders?-Stomach! on Today at 11:47:51 am
A country that can experience economic growth with that expenditure on social protection is one that can afford to keep it.

We can't though can we, that's why we're in debt. Housing costs are the problem, which the government are making worse (see above)

Mmm, I thought we were in debt because we had to bail out the banks:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/163850bn-official-cost-of-the-bank-bailout-1833830.html

And as a result of our social conscience, we are being forced into turning the UK into another America. Well fuck off*, frankly (*not you, Hypno!)

[George Oscar Bluth II]

If I was on the dole, rather than in my crappy minimum wage job, I'd be about £200 a month worse off. Even taking into account stuff like rent payment and council tax. There's no way I'd rather be on the dole however embarrassing my employment is for a graduate.

[JPA]

Defence and Nuclear budgets.

That's certainly what I'd be looking at. Anything military-related would be deeply unpopular though given the public circle-jerk that is currently happening with regards to the Armed Forces.

[biggytitbo]

Mmm, I thought we were in debt because we had to bail out the banks:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/163850bn-official-cost-of-the-bank-bailout-1833830.html

Some of its that, although it wasnt a bailout, it was a robbery. See the brilliant article I posted that got no replies! - http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/32255149/wall_streets_bailout_hustle/print

But even aside from that, Brown was running big deficits at the height of the boom, which is unheard of. Brown, and the country as a whole spent the last 10 years spending far far more than we could possibly afford, and whilst the underlying reason for that is the banking system and globalisation, we can't absolve ourselves of our own responsibility either.

[Beagle 2]

I work in social work, and I'd certainly cut the amount that is spent on pointless management positions. There are so many people on large wages doing nothing but having meetings to discuss things they can do to justify their own jobs, and then writing reports about it that nobody reads.

Social work is in a mess because so much money goes into it and so much of it is either wasted or used incredibly inefficiantly. It seems to be more about covering your own back by ticking meaningless boxes on forms than anything else these days.

I suppose 'twas ever thus though, and it's the old "cut waste" argument, as if people actively promote waste until anyone says otherwise. I've never known anybody to work in the public sector be anything else but bemused at the amount of cash that's frittered away on nothing. Hard to avoid I suppose.

[wherearethespoons]

Why hasn't anybody pointed out that Jemble accidentally missed out an L up there? And wrote 'pubic funding'? Like, you know, genital hair funding? I mean, come on now.

[biggytitbo]

I work in social work, and I'd certainly cut the amount that is spent on pointless management positions. There are so many people on large wages doing nothing but having meetings to discuss things they can do to justify their own jobs, and then writing reports about it that nobody reads.

Social work is in a mess because so much money goes into it and so much of it is either wasted or used incredibly inefficiantly. It seems to be more about covering your own back by ticking meaningless boxes on forms than anything else these days.

I suppose 'twas ever thus though, and it's the old "cut waste" argument, as if people actively promote waste until anyone says otherwise. I've never known anybody to work in the public sector be anything else but bemused at the amount of cash that's frittered away on nothing. Hard to avoid I suppose.

And this subject comes up perpetually in political circles and the very people who are asked to look at how they can cut waste and the same fuckers who are the waste.