Crown of the Soulsborne King - Ranking Fromsoftware’s Souls/Soulslike games

[Thursday]

Sekiro was the hardest to me, although I think that's mainly just a couple of bosses at the end, and the time it takes to unlearn a lot of Souls instincts.

3 is probably the hardest overall, which I rarely see people say, but I think that's because it's a little less obtuse to new players, and experienced players are familiar with the mechanics by this point. But enemies in it seem tankier with some incredibly elaborate movesets. They all seem designed to trip up people who've become familiar with blocking, rolling and circle strafing enemies.

Demon's I think is difficult early game, and the lack of bonfires and shortcuts on some levels is very harsh. But I do think once you get over a certain hump you can be over-levelled and because the balance of the game lets you select areas in any order it gets much smoother. And the Arch-Demon boss fights reward so many souls despite mostly being puzzle or gimmick fights.

Bloodborne, I thought wasn't too difficult, but I seemed to naturally take to the differences in that one. My souls enthusiasm, skill, and patience was at it's highest whereas now I'm in decline. In my Thiago Silva era.

Dark Souls, as I say this was people's first experience with the game aND that's why people tend to remember it as harder than it is. Once you replay it and know all the tricks and secrets it's not too bad.

2 on the whole was easier, but SOTFS version and DLC have some bits where it's adds ludicrous gank squads of enemies. Then again the fact that they disappear eventually means attrition will solve the problem eventually.

With Elden Ring the thing I said about enemies/bosses in 3 is true but I think the increased amount of options you as a player have, along with there being quite a few ways to over-level massively counteracts this. And Mimic Tear makes a lot of the game a breeze.

[Noodle Lizard]

But let me ask you From nerds, how would you rank the titles in terms of difficulty? Everyone loves a tier list!

It's impossible, I think! They all have their moments.

Spoiler alert

Sekiro's probably the hardest overall just because of the lack of options for overleveling or summoning, but once you're used to it it never feels that hard again.

Bloodborne's base game isn't all that tough (with a few serious exceptions - that cunt who turns up in the cathedral is harder than almost anything in the franchise!) but the DLC is consistently unforgiving. Some of the hardest moments in the series, for sure.

DS2 has some of the most difficult areas, but they're more frustrating than mechanically challenging, and its bosses are largely straightforward.

DS3 is underrated in terms of difficulty, I think. The Ringed City is incredibly tough, and base game areas like Irithyll Dungeon and Archdragon Peak are no joke. Consistently difficult bosses from the mid-game onwards.

DS1 has areas which are less forgiving than any of the others, and I found some bosses like Ornstein & Smough much more difficult than expected. It often feels more oppressive than the others, even if it probably isn't exactly harder.

Elden Ring has some of the most difficult content in the franchise, but I think people forget that since it's easy to get overpowered and/or use summons. If you choose not to do any of that, it's as hard as anything else. The Haligtree is a very difficult area, regardless of your build.

[close]

I still haven't finished Demon's Souls, so I can't fairly judge, but I'd agree with the consensus that it's not as hard as what followed (although some of the levels I played were comparable to DS1).

How about you, @Chollis ?

[jimboslice]

From what I've played:

1. Sekiro - you can't grind levels, you can't summon people to help you out, you have to actually be good at this. Also Owl Father is tougher than Sword Saint I don't care what anyone says. I also played Sekiro first so maybe I'm bias. Guardian Ape is a prick.
2. Bloodborne - I died loads in the early game and the DLC bosses are probably tougher than DS3
3. Dark Souls 3 - Gael and that stupid dragon were rock hard, and the DLC ringed city was absolutely nails too. Actually this might be harder than Bloodborne - loads of tricky bosses.
4. Elden Ring - It felt too easy to use spirit ashes in this. I can't really help but use them if they're there, sorry.
5. Demon's Souls - The easiest, but also the most unfair and gimmicky.

Edit: I've just realised this is just the order I played them in so maybe this list is actually massively bias.

[Chollis]

And Mimic Tear makes a lot of the game a breeze.

Mimic Tear is cheating. Summons in general in fact. JUST MY OPINION. Unless it's cool quest lore on a gimmick fight like Siegward vs Yhorm the Giant in DS3. Think I agree with the thrust of what you're both saying though.

I've struggled horrendously in the early stages of every game I've played, then once I get into the groove it becomes easier almost exponentially, so I do have a hard time rating their difficulty. Ask me 20% into any of the titles and I'd say "this one hardest". My limited impression of DS1 and DS2 isn't so much the mechanical side of things, more just the QoL issues like fast travel or nasty corpse runs back to a boss (also DS2 Estus looks like it takes fucking ages to heal?). I played DS3 after Sekiro so had the opposite problem to you - trying to unlearn those Sekiro instincts and re-learning Souls combat took me a lot longer than I expected.

Sekiro was brutal at the start, I struggled horribly with early mini-bosses like the Lone Shadow Longswordsman (these gave me trouble all the way through) and Seven Ashina Spears guy in the early game, followed by Lady Butterfly and the first Genichiro - but banging my head against those two main bosses prepared me for everything the rest of the game threw at me, to the point where I was no-hit killing Demon of Hatred after 20 mins and killed Sword Saint in under 10 tries. Butterfly/Genichiro were both a solid hour of dying each.

DS3 I was probably dying more to trash mobs - distinctly remember the first road in Irithyll, I had to to panic-run through the mobs to the next bonfire because I could not fight my way through. Nasty fuckers all over Archdragon Peak too. And again, died more to early game bosses like Abyss Watchers and Pontiff than later ones like Nameless or Soul of C. Haven't reached Ringed City yet which I understand is the hardest part of the game.

Elden Ring, same again - Margit was easily my highest death count in the game, though Malenia ran him close. I'm also aware, especially after playing DS3, that I abused the shit out of that L2 power attack on my ER playthrough, so I do plan on running it through again with a simple flail+shield or something, to see if I can actually do it "properly". Was definitely cheesing things a bit by mashing L2 and poise-breaking anything within a few hits - in DS3 I felt I had to play much better - just chipping away at bosses with light attacks and utilizing blocks/defensive plays much harder.

Uhh so yeah long story short, there's really not much between them for me but probably

Sekiro
DS3
Elden Ring
DS1
Animal Crossing

Really hope the Elden Ring DLC is nails to be honest. I'm in the mood for a challenge.

[The F Bomb]

Sekiro is the only one I really thought was hard and I still do. While I eventually mastered the hardest bosses and found that enormously satisfying, there are still so many regular enemies or mini bosses, particularly, which I either run past or cheese in some way. It's often claimed to have an incredible combat system etc but I think it's the least satisfying or predictable, to my sensibilities/abilities. I also think the parry/defence bar is a mystery, and curiously designed. I understand the concept of the bar moving more quickly towards the upper end as the resistance is about to be broken, but it's not very satisfying spamming L1 and R1 and watching a bar move up and down according to some unseen whim.

I may be a little harsh here but it's the only one I haven't played through even twice. Most of the others I've run through half a dozen times or more, even DS3. I started it again and became very quickly bored knowing it was going to be the exact same experience with the exact same roadblocks which would require the exact same strategies. I thought I'd love running through like a hot knife in butter now I'd mastered the techniques but it was boring. The combat reminded me of boarding a ship in Sid Maier's Pirates! Clang clang clang clang clang clang, someone falls down.

Apart from that, Bloodborne was probably the hardest in terms of how deep I went with the Platinum. Stuff like Defiled Watchdog, Defiled Amygdala, Headless Beast, Orphan of Kos, fucking amazing tension and terror and stress and euphoria. Most of the regular game was pretty straightforward, healthy challenge but it clicked for me instantly, peak Souls gameplay, and I carved it up. The seriously challenging stuff was perfectly balanced and made me become much better to overcome them.

The rest just require patience and kiting/mob management to one degree or another. Amazing games but not hard, just require you to learn, most people could beat them with time and practice, which I don't think is true for Sekiro.

All of these games are easy compared to beating Cave bullet hell, like Ketsui or Dodonpachi Daioujou which are far beyond normal people, including myself. Even after hundreds of hours, I can only get to the last (fifth) stage of both of them. Every year I feel like this is the year, and every year I'm a little bit slower and a little further away. Getting the first extend on stage one of Mushihimesama Futari God Mode will likely be my only genuine achievement in gaming. You can hear it trigger as the boss explodes and all the gems get sucked up. That sound is the best thing I've ever heard in my life.

[Thursday]

I always avoid other player summons first time through the game, because they can be completely OP whereas NPC summons are usually balanced well enough, and well they're a part of the game and always will be even when the servers go off.

I broke that rule Ringed City though because the bosses are are ridiculous. I might just have had a shit build, but their HP is huge, felt like I was barely scratching them.

Sekiro, the parry bar annoys me because it feels like it slows down when you get it near the top, so you're like "Okay nearly got him... nearly got him *10 more hits* nearly got him... okay next one... next one... this time.... this time."

[The Crumb]

Hardest: Sekiro. No real shortcuts, builds, grinding etc. You have to learn to play the gane on its terms. Some pretty long amd gruelling boss fights.

Bloodborne next. More options for tipping things in your favour, and easier to mount a crushing offence. Hunter's Nightmare was absolutely nails the first time round. Non regenerating bullets and healing add to the pressure when you're less good, having 20 heals feels a bit much once you get a supply sorted Deep chalice dungeons get a bit silly.

DS1 boss fights feel a bit slow and simple compared to later entries, but there's less quality of life stuff and it's more possible to get in situations where you get cursed and have to schlep across half the map to fix it. Less 'You Died' but more chance of giving up for the evening.

ER feels all over the shop, some obnoxious areas and enemies, and the late game damage is wild. But there's also loads of ways to circumvent things or make yourselves busted. There seems to be a lack of consensus on what the 'proper' experience of ER is.

DS3 I've not played the DLC, but the main game is relatively easy imo. They tried to give the bosses more tricks, but they have nothing up their sleeves against magic/pyromancy users.

DS2 is generally easy apart from the gank squads and a couple of comedy boss runs. You get masses of souls in SoTFS and power stancing melts everything. Add in effective poison weapons and you're golden.

[druss]

I probably found DS2 the most difficult on first playthrough as I beat DS1 on easy mode on my first playthrough (zweihander and havel's set). Also spent 20 odd hours in the undead burg the first time through. Subsequent playthroughs I would put both of these games at the bottom in terms of difficulty.

Bloodborne is consistently tough and if you lose concentration then quick deaths are common for me even now but I can't think of any real road blocks to progress unless going with certain builds. I was trying an arcane build the first time I killed Orphan of Kos as I didn't do the DLC on my first playthrough and beating him as arcane was close to the most deaths I've had on any boss. One shotted him on my next run through with skill build though and never had any other real problems that ever seemed insurmountable.

Dark Souls 3 might be the hardest moment to moment. Absolutely nails first boss especially if you've never played a souls game before. Even now he will occasionally take me a couple of tries if I haven't played for a while. Very few trivial bosses and the DLC cranks up the difficulty even further.

As others have said, Sekiro seems the most impossible at first and unlike all of the other games, there aren't really any "builds" that can cheese a boss. You just have to use all your tools and learn each boss and "git gud". Once you learn to rely on parrying rather than dodging it becomes much easier though.

Demon's starts out very difficult and if you don't know where to go and what items/weapons to build towards then it can seem very tough, but the actual mechanics are probably the easiest.

Elden Ring has some of the easiest gameplay due to massive build variety but also some of the hardest bosses (arguably the hardest in Malenia).

Very difficult to rank linearly as each game has difficult elements or moments that don't necessarily reflect the game's difficulty as a whole, but with that caveat and thinking about the most difficult moments from each game I'll go:

Elden Ring
Dark Souls 3
Sekiro
Bloodborne
Dark Souls
Dark Souls 2
Demon's Souls (even though it's probably the least immediately accessible)

[Noodle Lizard]

I've been skipping through Limmy's playthrough of DS3. Mad to see this simple, underleveled old man mowing his way through bosses like Pontiff and Dancer in one or two attempts. Devs must be raging etc.

[Chollis]

what?! well, I spose he has played it through a few times before. still waiting for him to have another crack at Sekiro.

Finished Ariandel - not really much to to say, felt like it was over so quickly. Assuming that wasn't £40 on release! Sister Friede was fantastic though, last phase especially. I've noticed myself skipping a lot of out-of-the-way items I see in the DLC because it's always just more Titanite that I'm never going to use. Definitely less motivated to check all corners/buildings and clear all the trash because it feels I'll never use any of the crap I'm picking up and my character doesn't really need any more upgrading. Kinda just wanting to get to the bosses.

Having said that, first hour in the Dreg Heap now and my health bar is getting wrecked fast, so maybe I do still need to keep levelling up!

[Noodle Lizard]

what?! well, I spose he has played it through a few times before. still waiting for him to have another crack at Sekiro.

Nameless King gave him a hard time, and rightfully so! He adamantly refused to do the DLC irritatingly, but he did seem open to giving Sekiro another try.

Finished Ariandel - not really much to to say, felt like it was over so quickly. Assuming that wasn't £40 on release! Sister Friede was fantastic though, last phase especially. I've noticed myself skipping a lot of out-of-the-way items I see in the DLC because it's always just more Titanite that I'm never going to use. Definitely less motivated to check all corners/buildings and clear all the trash because it feels I'll never use any of the crap I'm picking up and my character doesn't really need any more upgrading. Kinda just wanting to get to the bosses.

How long did Friede take you? That's a very tough fight.

And yeah, I fully get you about starting to ignore items. Getting over my slight OCD tendencies and FOMO greatly improved my experience with these games. There are some good weapons and rings in the DLCs, though, in The Ringed City especially. You'll want to get those.

Having said that, first hour in the Dreg Heap now and my health bar is getting wrecked fast, so maybe I do still need to keep levelling up!

That whole DLC is very hard. It has three of the best boss fights in the series, though. Keep an eye out when you reach The Ringed City - you might see one of them long before you finally face them!

[druss]

Also a friendly NPC called Lapp who is good stuff in that dlc.

I struggle not to pick up every shiny even if I know exactly what it is. Not a huge problem for earlier entries but it makes replays of Elden ring quite the commitment!

[Noodle Lizard]

I think Elden Ring really shines on NG+ for that reason. Starting an entirely new character is a bit overwhelming cos of all the grinding you have to do for essentials, and frankly none of the catacombs or caves are particularly fun to repeat.

I kept a character on NG who has all the sites of grace unlocked and is well-stocked with all the important weapons and talismans and spells and such. Once I'm doing the DLC, I don't want to realise I have to go back into the base game to find some shit I've already collected multiple times over.

[druss]

It's looking like mid-March until o get my desk so I might just end up posting the Demon's Souls rating on my phone as I want each run to be fresh when I do the rankings. Might be up later today or tomorrow.

Started my Dark Souls playthrough but have hit a bit of a wall with O and S. Wanted to try fat rolling through the entire game and whilst I think I could still do it, it isn't very fun to play. Tower shields just don't do it for me I think.

Going to reroll and see if I can finish the game using only Pyromancy and faith (pyro only is impossible without summons I believe due to Queelag but I reckon I can solo everything if I add in some miracles). Far more willing to try out a few builds/challenge runs than I would be with Demon's (might do an SL1 run at some point on the remake, mind). 

[druss]

Apologies in advance for the formatting...
 
Demon's Souls
 
 
Atmosphere
 
 
This is one of two categories where the PS3 and PS5 versions differ as both have different soundtracks and visuals. They both work well in different ways, with the remake going for a more epic feel, whilst the original has a much weirder, plodding, and at times dorky, sound to it. Both versions do a great job of portraying a bleak, oppressive and terrifying world with Latria a highlight in this regard.
 
I won't repeat what I've said earlier in the thread about the differences but overall the relative atmospheres are similar enough to warrant the same score of 8/10.
 
 
Gameplay
 
 
Perhaps in 2009 it was fine but in 2024 the PS3 version feels atrocious to play when compared to later entries. Parries have less weight to them and seem less satisfying and harder to pull off, rolling doesn't feel right and falling inexplicably looks like you are floating. The weapon animations seem very primitive by today's standards and the leap from Demon's Souls to Dark Souls is very noticeable. Dark Souls can be fun to go back to if you want a change of pace from the faster later entries but I have zero desire to ever experience the gameplay of the PS3 version again.
 
The PS5 feels much better. They added omni-directional rolling and fixed the weird falling animations, as well as adding weapon and riposte animations without changing the underlying mechanics. The 60fps also probably helps with the general "feel" of the gameplay.
 
There are a few little annoyances in both versions that thankfully the series has since dropped such as item burden. Essentially you have to manage how much you are carrying and if you forget then you run the risk of missing out of items permanently as you cannot carry more than a certain number of items. Thankfully there is a ring you can acquire early that safeguards against this slightly but it is still a bad system and one that I am glad they dropped. The remake thankfully adds a quality of life feature where you can send gear back to stockpile Thomas if you are going over your item burden.
 
The upgrade system is spectacularly complicated. God help you if you are trying to upgrade anything without a guide and even after multiple playthroughs under my belt I still have to check when I have to change upgrade path as if you go past a certain point on your current upgrade path then this locks you out of other upgrade paths unless you use a specific item. Technically Dark Souls does this as well but it is much clearer as to when these break points are and it is much easier to undo.
 
There is no jump and no plunging attack in Demon's Souls, however you do have the superhuman ability to climb up very small ledges (sometimes anyway). The knee high wall nemesis can get fucked! There is also the unintuitive world and character tendency which are interesting mechanics in theory but in practice require you to commit suicide dozens of times if you want to see all the black and white tendency events. Even for a series renowned for its level of esoteric nonsense, this is a bit much.
 
Levelling up is done back at the hub world of the Nexus, which makes more sense in Demon's Souls as there are very few "bonfires" and once you have completed a level then it is quite nice to go have a bit of a breather and a chill out at the Nexus before you make a decision about where to head to next.
 
To sum up, the PS5 remake is still fun to play but will probably place much lower than later entries, whilst the PS3 version feels aids virus at times.
 
PS5: 7/10
PS3: 5/10
 
 
Story/Lore/NPCs (is there a snappier word that encompasses all of these facets?)
 
 
Demon's Souls is often talked about as the prototype of the Souls series in terms of its storytelling but I don't think this does the game justice. There isn't much in the way of item descriptions but the archstone descriptions give just enough information to be able to piece together the story of each world and the environmental storytelling supplements these descriptions well enough. There might not be the depth of lore as seen in later entries but it certainly feels more cohesive than Dark Souls 3 (from memory anyway, maybe DS3 will surprise me in when it gets the chance). The story can get a little expositionary, particularly at the start, but it never feels egregious. The short stories of each world/archstone are more interesting than the over-riding story, which is a fairly simplistic "Demon fog going to devour world, must kill Demon's then choose whether to become big demon and destroy world or save world for a bit" but there are plot points related to magic vs miracles that tie in together with the main story quite well and most of the NPCs are interesting. The endings are great as well, with a bit of ambiguity as to whether there even is a "good" ending.
Best NPCs
Yurt the silent chief: This guy seems a bit suss but I'm sure his quest is interesting... Oh wait, he has killed multiple vendors and quest important NPCs at the hub world. I love the balls of Fromsoftware to put a character like this in a game and I wish I went in completely blind and had not heard about him beforehand as you simply don't expect a game to ever fuck you over quite this badly.
 
Stockpile Thomas: A very straightforward story and quest of a man who left his daughter and wife to die. Tragic but moving, as most of the best From npc quests are.
 
Maiden in Black: Great voice acting and one of the best early examples where From gives you the barebones of a character's background and motivation and lets you fill in the rest for yourself.
Story/lore/npcs score for both versions : 7/10
 
World Design
Demon's Souls has a hub world called the Nexus which you arrive at after the tutorial and from there you can only visit the first level (traditionally known as 1:1 although the remake added titles for each specific world). After you have beaten the boss of this first level you can then return to the Nexus and you then have access to 5 "archstones". Each archstone has two proper levels and 3 bosses, apart from the first world which has 4 levels and 4 bosses. You can run from the beginning of one arch stone to the end of it if you wanted but there is no connection between any of the 5 archstones.
The level design is mostly good to great, with plenty of interesting shortcuts and levels that loop back on themselves. Boss runs can sometimes seem a bit long but thankfully the bosses are much easier than in later entries and there are only a few bosses that you aren't likely to take down first time.
I like that each archstone has an individual theme with each levels within the archstone feeling connected and similar to each other whilst being unique enough to differentiate them from the levels of other archstones. However, there are some low points..
Worst area: 2:2
2:1 is quite poor as the starter level to this world, before the main course of an actual pile of dog shit that is 2:2. It isn't all bad, Patches is a despicable delight as always and I think they were trying to go for the feeling of an actual mine rather than it feeling just like a video game level. They do something similar but much better in 3:1, as here it just feels a frustrating level to navigate. Mercifully there is at least a shortcut to the boss and you'd be better off taking this shortcut and skipping the level entirely once you've met up with Patches. It isn't just that it's a pain to navigate either, the enemies have more hit points than a lot of bosses. They aren't challenging as you can just stand behind them but they are very tedious to kill and I would recommend not bothering and running past them, only sometimes you can't do this as they block a tunnel. I thought I was under-levelled when I first played this level and ended up putting the game down for a long period after first experiencing it as it is really, really shit. The black tendency world event has you fighting someone who can one shot you at most levels and the tactic is to run around until his FP is depleted and then batter him. Horrible fight, horrible level and a pretty poor boss, especially on the PS3.
 
Best area: 3:1
The prison of hope is a masterpiece in both versions of the game. It has some of the same design philosophy of 2:2 in terms of basing the level on a real world building/area, but unlike 2:2 it isn't as confusing to navigate (still a bit confusing, admittedly) and also an oppressive prison that is stalked by mind flayer prison wardens is a lot more interesting and scary than a mine filled with fat bugs. The reputation that Demon's Souls has for its atmosphere comes mostly from this level I would argue as it is close to the pinnacle in the entire series for atmosphere. The prisoners being non-aggressive at first but sometimes randomly lashing out is such a nice touch as it forces you to kill everyone if you want to be guaranteed peace and also makes you question whether you really need to open up that door with half a dozen poor, desperate fucks, when you know that at least one of them will shank you. 1:1 is probably a better designed level mechanically but 3:1 feels like an actual place. A horrible, dark, bleak and spectacular place. The boss is mechanically a bit meh but thematically great: a false idol of the queen of the region to give the prisoners hope, only to turn them into diabolical demons if they ascend to 3:2. Great stuff, love Latria as a whole but this is my favourite level.
 
Overall, Demon's gets an 8/10 for world design. Not as intricate and linked as later entries but each individual world is thematically cohesive and every world apart from world 2 has good to great design on the individual levels within them.
 
Character customisation
DeS has fewer weapons than most later entries but most of them seem viable. I haven't done as many run throughs as in other games but sorcery/royal is the noob class that can get you through the entire game and faith builds work well in conjunction with other playstyles. I really like that boss souls feel more valuable in Demon's Souls, both in the way the weapons they provide are better than the boss weapons in Dark Souls and also that they give you good spells as well. There is no pyromancy or dark/hex magic, but there is plenty of variety with the weapons and spells that are available.
Best weapon: Meat cleaver. When you absolutely, positively got to smash every fucking demon in the room, accept no substitutes.
Best spell: Second chance. An extra life, crazy powerful.
DeS will probably rank a bit lower than the other souls games in this category but it holds its own and I suspect will be higher than Bloodborne and definitely Sekiro. 7.5/10.
 
Bosses
Many of the bosses have some sort of gimmick to them and none are particularly challenging compared to later entries. There are a handful of truly memorable bosses but most feel quite filler, without ever being terrible. I think that the long boss runs may have influenced the difficulty of Demon's Souls' bosses but there is also a fairly linear progression in terms of boss difficulty throughout the series where they have gotten harder and harder as each game has been released. Maybe at the time these seemed hard and it is only in comparison that they seem easier now.
Even with the slightly gimmicky bosses and lack of challenge, they are still mostly well designed and fun and have some of my favourite set pieces in any of the games. Most have interesting short stories attached to them too even if they are mechanically simple.
Worst boss: Leachmonger. It's not really a bad boss as there aren't any truly bad bosses, it's just too easy. You can shoot it with arrows before it can even reach you but even if you choose to melee you will take it down very quickly. Was tempted to put flamelurker here as he is very annoying but I have at least had some good fights against him. Dragon God is arguably the worse but seems 10/10 compared to the main gimmick boss of Dark Souls.
Top 5 bosses:
 
5. False King Allant.
Better aesthetics on the PS3 but a great fight in both versions, one of the few fights that is quite challenging at first as it has multiple mechanics to learn but as with a lot of great Fromsoftware bosses, once you know his moveset he is simple to take down. Feels like a suitably climactic battle before the intentionally anti-climactic battle against true King Allant. On a personal note, I find interrupting his big AOE with a quick crossbow bolt extremely satisfying.
4. Tower Knight.
As with many bosses in Demon's Souls this is a bit gimmicky. I find him quite easy after taking down the crossbow men but I can imagine it being quite irritating to have to do this every time if you are struggling. I love the sense of scale and the music is good in both versions of the game. The payoff when you fight the non-demon version of him and put together exactly what happened is also good stuff.
3. Old Monk.
Another gimmick fight, after a mad set piece and creepy room full of chairs you fight another player who the Old Monk has summoned in. The only PVP I have ever done has been here as the PS3 servers are offline and I never get invaded in the PS5 version. I usually give up and go offline eventually but even so I like the concept and visual aesthetics of the fight. One day I will beat him legit.
2. Maiden Astraea.
Nearly took top spot, love the idea of being confronted by what you have been doing the entire game: killing and pillaging for soul power. Very easy fight which essentially consists of parrying Garl Vinland but it is such an amazing set piece (plague baby blood sewage, wtf?) that I can forgive the lack of challenge.
1.Storm King (PS5 version only).
I love everything about the Storm King. Could it be a bit more challenging? Of course it could, but I don't care. Getting revenge on these absolute literal thunder cunts who have been shooting at you since the start of the world is cathartic in and of itself, but when you add in the thumping soundtrack, the lightning and the village sized Storm King himself, you get my favourite boss in Demon's Souls. Mechanically you just have to run to a sword sticking out of the ground, equip the sword and then unleash destruction upon the skies.
 
Overall the bosses are very consistent and there is never anything as bad as Bed of Chaos, Ancient Dragon or Godskin Duo, but despite some thematically and aesthetically interesting bosses, the lack of any really challenge means that the final score for Demon's Souls bosses is 6.5.
 
Final score:
PS3 version – 42/60
PS5 version – 44/60
 
Solid game and enough there to recommend to anyone who likes the Soulsborne series, but I suspect that the PS3 version is an early candidate for the wooden ladle.
 
 
 
 

So Demon's Souls has come to an end as I doomed the world to oblivion, now completely engulfed by fog.

Onto Dark Souls, which of course is not linked to the story of Demon's Souls at all.

"In the age of ancients, the world was unformed, shrouded by fog".

!!!

[how do you like apples]

Thought I'd do a replay of them all as well (minus Demon's which I don't have). A few hours into Dark Souls 1, get cursed by basilisks in The Depths, think I'm going to ditch it. My first time with Dark Souls 1 is top 5 gaming experiences ever, but unpleasant clunky stuff like the aforementioned curse, along with multiple areas I have no desire to do ever again, and the slower gameplay, make it not particularly replayable in my opinion. 2 is slightly better because of the build diversity, but Bloodborne onwards the gameplay hits a certain pace that make replays so much better. Might just go straight to BB.

[druss]

I'm having a very different experience with DS1! Started another run after my fat roll experiment and loving miracles. Never used "Force" before, very run to blast people off ledges. I'm getting towards the end now and really don't want to finish. If I hadn't already committed to doing every game I might even be thinking of another playthrough after this one as I've only just found out more Solaire stuff at the sunlight altar. Don't know how that passed me by.

Even the supposed worst area of Lost Izalith I'm loving. It looks fantastic, has the finale to two great npc questlines and lots of cool lore stuff regarding the witch of izalith. Probably is still the worst area though as Bed of Chaos is such bullshit (I keep finding new ways this bullshit materialises too) and it is admittedly unfinished even though I have a lot of love for it.

[jimboslice]

After beating Demon's Souls, I played and completed a Soulslike called "Steelrising" which is currently on PS+. Enjoyed it, but it was a little shallow and samey, and the story bits weren't for me. So I figured I'd bite the bullet and get myself the Dark Souls trilogy so I can play the first two.

I'll be going back to a big bad strength build as Demon's Souls made me realised I can't be arsed with all the fiddly magic bullshit.

[Chollis]

How long did Friede take you? That's a very tough fight.

Couple of hours I reckon, she was just immediately wrecking whenever I got into Phase3, soon as I started saving my Ember for the P3 transition she went down fast enough. Took a break the last few days after getting frustrated with Twin Demons and deciding to experiment a bit with some other weapons. Actually reminds me a bit of Demon of Hatred with all the leaping backwards and bombarding me with fire.

I clicked randomly on the timeline of one of Limmy's DS3 vids and watched him blow like 5 Embers just trying to get through Consumed King's Garden, getting dicked on by normal enemies and getting progressively more angry. Laughed a lot.

[druss]

I genuinely didn't think I would ever be able to beat Friede until I discovered she was vulnerable to backstabs in P3. Trying to dodge and wait for other openings was almost impossible. Great fight though.

I'm finished with Dark Souls 1 now. Will try to write everything up by the weekend, think I have decided on scores. It's looking pretty good for DS1.

Cant decide what build to run in DS2, I've started four characters already and then decided "nah" within an hour. I am leaning towards a Walter White themed pyro and firebomb only playthrough for something a bit different. Only thing stopping me as that it will be really fucking hard I think. But hex or sorcery only seems too easy, I've done loads of playthroughs using big ass swords and not sure I can be bothered with another dex playthrough as it was the last one I completed. So maybe it's firebomb time...

[Noodle Lizard]

I clicked randomly on the timeline of one of Limmy's DS3 vids and watched him blow like 5 Embers just trying to get through Consumed King's Garden, getting dicked on by normal enemies and getting progressively more angry. Laughed a lot.

He blows through consumables in a way which makes me very anxious as a hoarder. I have over the max inventory of Rune Arcs in Elden Ring, but I still won't use them unless it feels like life or death. Bet I'll still be over the limit by the end of the DLC.

[druss]

He blows through consumables in a way which makes me very anxious as a hoarder. I have over the max inventory of Rune Arcs in Elden Ring, but I still won't use them unless it feels like life or death. Bet I'll still be over the limit by the end of the DLC.

I've started trying to use consumables more but there are still come things that feel too good to use. Doing my DS2 run and having an absolute blast playing pyro only (I do occasionally punch with the glove though) and already have 3 bright bugs which I'll probably only use on Ancient Dragon when I get there.

I'm going to miss the non-linearity of the first two Dark Souls games by the time I get to 3. For this current self-imposed challenge run I had to leg it to Dragonrider without attacking anything, make him walk off the ledge to get the souls without attacking, buy cat ring, fall to the gutter, grab dark pyro glove, run to forest of fallen giants, do a mad jump to get a fragrant branch, go free Rosabeth, grab some pyros from her, open up path to huntsman's copse, grab Felkin gear and at this point I can finally start doing some bosses.

That's me going down 4 different spokes within the first hour! You can't do anything like that in 3, the only choice you have is to murder someone in cold blood near the start which gets you a chance to do a hard boss and even down this spoke you hit a road block until you've gone down the path the game wants you to go down.

DS2 gets a lot of shit for its world design, a lot of which I agree with, but there are some lovely little nuances which allow play like I've done at the start of this run.

[jimboslice]

I'm on my first playthrough of Dark Souls (Remastered edition) and it's a miserable little shit of a game.

Currently incredibly frustrated by Sen's Fortress. Everywhere looks the same, which doesn't help when there's a horrible "where do I roll the giant ball" puzzle. There's also about 50 beefy lizards trying to knock you off of narrow ledges while you try to get your bearings, which isn't enjoyable.

Basilisks permenantly knocking you down to half health was taking the piss, and the little bastards with blow darts that immediately inflict toxic really tested my patience too. Does it get worse?

I don't remember DS3 or ER being anywhere near as relentlessly bleak (I definitely thought DS3 was a bit much at one point - probably the prison with the health-sapping wardens)

It's impressive how interconnected the world is, but not that clever when you have to backtrack through it so you can buy something to remove your curse.

[druss]

Sen's is quite a road block, and there's a scenario shortly afterwards that is tougher than most boss fights.

After that is the hardest boss but everything else is pretty manageable. What build are you running?

One bit of advice for Sen's is that there's an hiddenish bonfire when you get to the open bit at the top. Makes things a lot more manageable.

If you've completed DS3 and Elden Ring then it's all well within your ability, the hardest bits of them are harder than the hardest bits of DS1.

[Noodle Lizard]

I only finished DS1 for the first time this year after bouncing off it many times. It's a different sort of "hard" to the newer ones, it feels more gleeful in punishing or fucking with you. It gets better once you accept that as being all part of its design rather than a shortcoming. By the time I was in Sen's Fortress I was able to laugh at my many bullshit deaths.

I dunno if I'd say it gets better after that; Tomb of the Giants is coming up, which is an awful place, and the bit I assume @druss is referring to is very tedious indeed. It's a good game, though. It's Dark Souls!

[jimboslice]

I've been playing strength, big Claymore and Zweihander. Only just switched to the Zweihander as it staggered those lizards nicely - one of them dropped a greatsword too so might have a go with that when I can upgrade it.

It was the wizards trying to knock me from the walkways that was the biggest sticking point. Through it now though, the top bit was much nicer and the boss went down easily.

Not getting my hopes up about Anor Londo after what's been said, anyway.

[druss]

I've been playing strength, big Claymore and Zweihander. Only just switched to the Zweihander as it staggered those lizards nicely - one of them dropped a greatsword too so might have a go with that when I can upgrade it.

It was the wizards trying to knock me from the walkways that was the biggest sticking point. Through it now though, the top bit was much nicer and the boss went down easily.

Not getting my hopes up about Anor Londo after what's been said, anyway.

Anor Londo is magnificent! There's also a really neat thing hidden away at the end of the level that you can easily miss, when you're ready to give it a go just google something like "Anor Londo hidden secret" (don't want to be spoilery by giving it away before then). There's only two really hard bits (and one bit that looks much harder than it is) in Anor Londo and they are both incredibly satisfying once you've done them, one encounter and one boss. Other than that it's just an awesome legendary city to wander through.

Edit: Also good stuff on the Zweihander, probably the best weapon in the game imo.

[jimboslice]

Anor Londo is magnificent! There's also a really neat thing hidden away at the end of the level that you can easily miss, when you're ready to give it a go just google something like "Anor Londo hidden secret" (don't want to be spoilery by giving it away before then). There's only two really hard bits (and one bit that looks much harder than it is) in Anor Londo and they are both incredibly satisfying once you've done them, one encounter and one boss. Other than that it's just an awesome legendary city to wander through.

Edit: Also good stuff on the Zweihander, probably the best weapon in the game imo.

Got past the horrible bit where two archers are constantly shooting at you, and now I refuse to move on until I can beat the Titanite Demon.

Is the secret you mentioned the illusory wall that has Havel's armour behind it?

[druss]

Got past the horrible bit where two archers are constantly shooting at you, and now I refuse to move on until I can beat the Titanite Demon.

Is the secret you mentioned the illusory wall that has Havel's armour behind it?

It is not! It is only accessible after you defeat the boss.

Also that titanite demon has to be the worst in terms of difficulty versus reward ratio. If you want to beat him for the sake of beating him then I can get behind that, but you get almost literally no reward for your efforts.

[Noodle Lizard]

Yeah, that particular Titanite Demon got cheesed. I don't know what they were thinking just plopping one in a spare bedroom like that where there's no chance of fighting it honestly.