I'm going to open a record shop

[lazyhour]

Couldn't agree more re: singles. They're so dinky! Camberwell's Rat Records would be absolutely perfect if they had a less pathetic 7" section - it's basically just one box.

I collect singles myself, and know from experience as a seller that there's a super-strong market for 45s of:

Punk, post-punk, new wave
Beat, mod, psych
Heavy soul, Motown, R&B, northern soul

And to a slightly lesser extent indie.

There'll be an emphasis on the above in the shop, and the 7" racks will be just as prominent and important as the LPs ones.

And Daves! I think the single I sold you may have been the Electric Prunes - Get Me To The World On Time. Could that be the one?

[23 Daves]

Couldn't agree more re: singles. They're so dinky! Camberwell's Rat Records would be absolutely perfect if they had a less pathetic 7" section - it's basically just one box.

I know! I've only been living in South London for a couple of months so I took a bus journey to Rat on Saturday to check them out for the first time. I was actually glad I hadn't bothered to travel the huge distance from East London before. To be fair to them, they had two boxes of 7" singles on the counter, but they were poorly sorted and while extremely reasonably priced, I couldn't find much I wanted.  I left with the feeling that Walthamstow was better for record stores after all - Wood Street market is an absolute mecca for vinyl up that way and has way more stock overall than Rat. 

And Daves! I think the single I sold you may have been the Electric Prunes - Get Me To The World On Time. Could that be the one?

Yes, I think that's it!  I DJ with that one on occasion.  I buy so many singles every month I find it very hard to keep track of who I bought what from. 

[kngen]

Thirded on the singles thing - the mark up on rare 7"s is exponentially larger than their better-endowed cousins. Never really understood why (esp when they can be equally limited) but I suppose it might be something to do with it being easier to keep an LP in NM[nb]Yup! I went there![/nb] condition.

[Johnny Townmouse]

Regarding categories - it can be a real pain. I think Rough Trade has it just about right simply by splitting it into UK and USA, which I find speeds up the time I spend looking for things.

The Record and Tape Exchanges were absolutely hellish for me. I would spend forever looking through the 'UK indie/alternative' section or 'Avant -Garde/Experimental' section finding little, and then suddenly I would see the 'UK Noise' section and find all I needed.

[lazyhour]

The Record and Tape Exchanges were absolutely hellish for me. I would spend forever looking through the 'UK indie/alternative' section or 'Avant -Garde/Experimental' section finding little, and then suddenly I would see the 'UK Noise' section and find all I needed.

Fuck yeah! And bands like Stereolab or Tortoise or The Sea and Cake could find themselves in any of about 5 of the genre divisions in M&VE.

I quite like the idea of country divisions. Certainly for indie. For LPs, I'm tempted to go:

1. Indie/punk/alternative/experimental
2. US indie/punk/alternative/experimental
3. Metal and heavy rock
4. 50s/60s - including R&R, beat, psych, pop
5. Soundtracks/jazz/fusion/strange stuff - eg instructional LPs, private press oddness
6. Rock/pop/folk/prog - this is where anything from Bowie and Lou Reed to Kraftwerk would go. Should I have a prog/kraut/synth/kosmische section??
7. Hip-hop/beats/techno/electronic
8. Motown/soul/disco/funk

Am I weird to want to put jazz and fusion in with soundtracks? The kind of soundtracks I like all tend to be quite fusion-y, if they're not synthy.

But now, where would I put, for example, experimental/noise stuff? Hmmm.

Am I missing any important categories?

[Johnny Townmouse]

Personally I would separate off experimental, 'strange', krautrock and stick it with avant-garde, noise, power electronics etc. I know the stock levels in some of the R&TE means they have to separate those out even further, but I think that is logical for me.

There is no perfect way to do this - some prog is so close to folk or avant-garde, whilst some metal strays towards noise. Perhaps A-Z is the way to go but I'd be fucked if I would be prepared to spend hours wading through millions of indie CDs trying to find pearls.

[lazyhour]

So you'd keep yer more classic prog (Yes, King Crimson, ELP) in with rock and pop, but split off krautrock (Can, Kraftwerk) and avant-garde? When does prog become Krautrock or experimental? Argh!

You make a good point about stock levels - if I got hold of loads of, say, Canterbury folk stuff, there's no harm in having a temporary divider for it while stocks last.

[Johnny Townmouse]

"Ay, there's the dub."[nb]I did a joke.[/nb]

Regarding labels, I do remember Rough Trade in the 90s having sections for individual labels who have a lot of output of similar bands - so for instance the Dischord, Mute, Creation and 4AD sections were large. There is always the option to put multiple copies into different sections, if you have the floor-space, and have multiple copies, and you are selling new material. Perhaps just go with what the stock dictates and then get feedback from the customers. People are usually forthcoming about such matters.

I've just remembered that for some reason I can never find the Japanese section in Rough Trade. Serge!

[Head Gardener]

not a shop as such but... it could have been worse, I guess

[lazyhour]

I'm still going to, you know.

[kngen]

This may be of interest: http://www.decibelmagazine.com/diary/low-fidelity-the-reality-of-the-record-business-circa-2013/

Shit magazine (maybe even shit person!) but a lot of it chimed with my experiences behind the counter.

[Brundle-Fly]

Well, at least HMV are struggling on.   

Oh.

http://www.superdeluxeedition.com/comment/flagging-hmv-closes-more-stores/

[Johnny Townmouse]

I know it was pre-Xmas, but every record shop I went into in London last month was heaving, as well the usual suspects like Rough Trade, Sister Ray and the Grumpy Exchanges, places like Sounds that Swing in Camden seemed to be selling vinyl like hotcakes.

[lazyhour]

Well, this is getting nearer to reality. Starting to look for a place to live and premises now, and figuring out how much we can spend on monthly shop rent before it becomes economically unviable. It's a trade-off between location - street footfall makes an enormous difference to sales - and price. The better the spot, the more punters you'll get, but the more it'll cost you.

I think I've settled on the idea of splitting stuff into a fair few genres, just because otherwise it would take the average person too long to check everything to see if their preferred stuff was in stock. Here's where I'm at today:

INDIE/ALTERNATIVE - inc goth, madchester, 4AD, Rough Trade, britpop...
PUNK/POST-PUNK/NEW WAVE/MOD REVIVAL - inc Crass, The Jam, Blondie, Television, Sex Pistols...
ROCK/METAL/GRUNGE
JAZZ
JAZZ-FUNK/FUSION
BLUES
SUPER-EIGHTIES (MADONNA/PSB/PRINCE/ERASURE..)
BEATLES & STONES[nb]Yeah, stick 'em together, fuck you[/nb]
PSYCH/BEAT/MOD etc - mostly 60s/very early 70s stuff
PROG/KRAUT/SYNTH/EXPERIMENTAL[nb]Reasonable to put all these together?[/nb]
ROCK & POP - 50s-60s
ROCK & POP - 70s onwards
SINGER-SONGWRITER TYPES (Leonard Cohen, Bob Dylan, Neil Young, Joni Mitchell, Melanie...)
FOLK & COUNTRY
SOUNDTRACKS
LIBRARY MUSIC/WEIRD STUFF
FUNK/SOUL/DISCO
DANCE MUSIK (mostly 12"s):
   1. TRANCE
   2. HOUSE
   3. OTHER TECHNO
RAP/HIP-HOP/BEATS

I think that covers everything. But where would stuff like Bowie or Iggy Pop go? Just 70s~ Rock & Pop? Hmmm.

I'm looking into how much it costs to get record racks made too.

IT'S HAPPENING PEOPLE

[thraxx]

Well, this is getting nearer to reality. Starting to look for a place to live and premises now, and figuring out how much we can spend on monthly shop rent before it becomes economically unviable. It's a trade-off between location - street footfall makes an enormous difference to sales - and price. The better the spot, the more punters you'll get, but the more it'll cost you.

I think I've settled on the idea of splitting stuff into a fair few genres, just because otherwise it would take the average person too long to check everything to see if their preferred stuff was in stock. Here's where I'm at today:

INDIE/ALTERNATIVE - inc goth, madchester, 4AD, Rough Trade, britpop...
PUNK/POST-PUNK/NEW WAVE/MOD REVIVAL - inc Crass, The Jam, Blondie, Television, Sex Pistols...
ROCK/METAL/GRUNGE
JAZZ
JAZZ-FUNK/FUSION
BLUES
SUPER-EIGHTIES (MADONNA/PSB/PRINCE/ERASURE..)
BEATLES & STONES[nb]Yeah, stick 'em together, fuck you[/nb]
PSYCH/BEAT/MOD etc - mostly 60s/very early 70s stuff
PROG/KRAUT/SYNTH/EXPERIMENTAL[nb]Reasonable to put all these together?[/nb]
ROCK & POP - 50s-60s
ROCK & POP - 70s onwards
SINGER-SONGWRITER TYPES (Leonard Cohen, Bob Dylan, Neil Young, Joni Mitchell, Melanie...)
FOLK & COUNTRY
SOUNDTRACKS
LIBRARY MUSIC/WEIRD STUFF
FUNK/SOUL/DISCO
DANCE MUSIK (mostly 12"s):
   1. TRANCE
   2. HOUSE
   3. OTHER TECHNO
RAP/HIP-HOP/BEATS

I think that covers everything. But where would stuff like Bowie or Iggy Pop go? Just 70s~ Rock & Pop? Hmmm.

I'm looking into how much it costs to get record racks made too.

IT'S HAPPENING PEOPLE

Good luck fella.  You're going to live a dream I'd love to experience.  Know that there are a bunch of jealous cunts here wishing you all the best, we are always ready with a whole bunch of well meaning but probably very poor advice.

[Jim_MacLaine]

Have you thought of approaching production companies with a view to a fly on the wall doc on the process of opening a music shop in the present climate?

I'd watch it.

[lazyhour]

They needn't worry thraxx; it'll probably fail.

Edit: Jim, coo, no I hadn't thought of that. Not sure I can handle the risk of coming across like either (a) a dick or (b) hopelessly, tragically deluded.

[thraxx]

They needn't worry thraxx; it'll probably fail.

Edit: Jim, coo, no I hadn't thought of that. Not sure I can handle the risk of coming across like either (a) a dick or (b) hopelessly, tragically deluded.

That's a cracking idea from Jim.  I wonder if there's someone on here who can push it in the right direction.  You could be the Selectadisc, but the a production will likely make you out to be some kind of great ballache of a man.

You could do it yourself and put a video blog on You Tube.  I'd like to see that, and it'll be in your hands, and it could work as some free advertising.  Just as long as it doesn't end up on the Grimmest Documentary Threads on here...

[Johnny Townmouse]

They needn't worry thraxx; it'll probably fail.

Edit: Jim, coo, no I hadn't thought of that. Not sure I can handle the risk of coming across like either (a) a dick or (b) hopelessly, tragically deluded.

Where are you based? I can guarantee there is a talented and enthusiastic postgraduate filmmaking cohort not far away who would be interested.

[Captain Z]

I wonder if you're missing a more general 'ELECTRONICA' category? This would be things like Aphex Twin, Boards of Canada, Daft Punk and then, as you start to get more specialist, Shpongle, Amorphous Androgynous/FSOL, Banco de Gaia...etc, all of whom have had LP's out recently or due out soon. This could cross into 'techno/ambient techno/deep house' a la Cocoon Records, whose vinyls always seem to sell out very quickly online.

[gabrielconroy]

I wonder if you're missing a more general 'ELECTRONICA' category? This would be things like Aphex Twin, Boards of Canada, Daft Punk and then, as you start to get more specialist, Shpongle, Amorphous Androgynous/FSOL, Banco de Gaia...etc, all of whom have had LP's out recently or due out soon. This could cross into 'techno/ambient techno/deep house' a la Cocoon Records, whose vinyls always seem to sell out very quickly online.

Agreed - electronic stuff has a fairly big market for vinyl records (including people like Burial, who wouldn't really fit into 'dance music').

[monkfromhavana]

Where are the Clutchbag & Fungle sections?

[Kane Jones]

I hope it has a decent AOR section so I can browse through the Van Stephenson, Stan Meissner and Eddie Money albums with ease.

[lazyhour]

Good point about electronica. I could separate rap/hip hop and beats/electronica, so BoC, Orbital, Daft Punk or Aphex could slot nicely in there. I want to stock some new LPs amongst the 2nd hand stock, especially Ghost Box and some Warp stuff. Guess that would also fit ok in an electronica/beats section.

[phes]

by your record player (listening post) hang a sign that reads:

you hum it, i'll smash your face in

[Kishi the Bad Lampshade]

Sorry to bump, but I'm way behind on reading Oscillations and I'm curious to know how this is going. Also just want to let lazyhour know that if this place is set up by the time I come back to the UK, and he lets me know where it is, I will come and give him some of my English pounds.

[lazyhour]

Well!  Your timing is good -we've just moved (3 weeks ago) from London to the coast, and are currently hunting for the right premises. It's not as easy as we'd hoped, as good shops seem to get snapped up before they even go on agents' websites. Quite annoying, but we're still really excited about making this happen. Can't really turn back now, anyway.

[lazyhour]

Signed the lease, got the keys!

Hastings, by the way.

[Jim_MacLaine]

Congratulations. I'm guessing you're going to be located in the old town LH?

[Serge]

Well here's another reason I should pull my finger out and get down to Hastings again!