Baltimore bridge fucked

[convulsivespace]

Perspective of driving over the bridge:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Crossing_the_Key_Bridge_(Baltimore).webm

Insane to imagine that collapsing in an instant.

[Mr Farenheit]

By comparison, here is the anti-collision defences on the central piers of the Baltimore bridge as built in 1977:

A 5ft x 6ft sacrificial hollow reinforced concrete box with 4ft thick timber fenders bolted to the outside. You would think that after the Tampa collision in 1980 there would have been a nationwide programme to look at the bridges over major shipping lanes to try and prevent a similar thing happening again, but obviously not.

That seems pretty mental. The timber seems like cladding/decoration, serving to reduce scratching the paint on your hull. The concrete is fixed to the face of the primary structure! So acts as....a kind of crumple zone? Can't imagine you reduce the speed of 90,000 tons much in 5 feet. Or presumably even a smaller tanker from the 70s.

[Natnar]

Any news on Dan Bell?

I was wondering about him considering hes been doing a lot of driving around Baltimore at night videos lately.

[Attila]

That's home -- I grew up in Newark, DE., and my entire family were from Baltimore. Been over that bridge many times (although more frequently through the tunnel on I95). Absolutely shocking news.

[monkfromhavana]

[BlodwynPig]

I was wondering about him considering hes been doing a lot of driving around Baltimore at night videos lately.

He was driving across the bridge at midnight it seems. But all well.

[buzby]

That seems pretty mental. The timber seems like cladding/decoration, serving to reduce scratching the paint on your hull. The concrete is fixed to the face of the primary structure! So acts as....a kind of crumple zone? Can't imagine you reduce the speed of 90,000 tons much in 5 feet. Or presumably even a smaller tanker from the 70s.

Yes, the hollow concrete box section was intended as a sacrificial impact absorbing element (as you say, a crumple zone), with the timber fender as a 'rubbing strip', much the same as it is used for in dock quays.

Even for the time period it seems under designed (the Baltimore bridge was a cut-price alternative to a tunnel that was originally proposed for the crossing). For comparison, here are the defences around one of the piers of the suspension bridge section (which traverses the shipping channel and was designed and built in the 1930s) of the Oakland Bay Bridge in San Francisco, after it was hit by the 65000 ton/5000TEU Cosco Busan (about half the size of the Dali) in 2007 due to the pilot being hopped up on prescription drugs:

Here's what the ship's hull looked like afterwards (it resulted in a spill of 54000 gallons of of fuel oil):

[BlodwynPig]

Is the pilot still in prison?

[BlodwynPig]

10 months!!

[Dex Sawash]

You should see the bridge impacted by MV Escher

[gilbertharding]

Yes, the hollow concrete box section was intended as a sacrificial impact absorbing element (as you say, a crumple zone), with the timber fender as a 'rubbing strip', much the same as it is used for in dock quays.

Even for the time period it seems under designed (the Baltimore bridge was a cut-price alternative to a tunnel that was originally proposed for the crossing). For comparison, here are the defences around one of the piers of the suspension bridge section (which traverses the shipping channel and was designed and built in the 1930s) of the Oakland Bay Bridge in San Francisco, after it was hit by the 65000 ton/5000TEU Cosco Busan (about half the size of the Dali) in 2007 due to the pilot being hopped up on prescription drugs:

Here's what the ship's hull looked like afterwards (it resulted in a spill of 54000 gallons of of fuel oil):

Someone on twitter was saying that the only thing that would stop a ship that size was, basically, a piece of land. Well, the picture you posted there of the Oakland bridge looks more like a piece of land than the piers of the Baltimore bridge, which seem to just come straight out of the water.

Do you know if there's a big difference in the depths of the water between the two sites?

[shoulders]

Just been hearing that the ship is "looking to move forward from this".

[iamcoop]

The ship has been joking with hospital staff, is in 'good spirits' and will be undertaking 'light duties' in the forthcoming days.

[idunnosomename]

It better get its skates on and over here pronto with my sex arse

[The Bumlord]

Personally I'm glad some people I never met have died horribly

[buzby]

Do you know if there's a big difference in the depths of the water between the two sites?

The depth of the water under the bridge at Baltimore at the time of the collision was about 50ft (it was at high tide). it's not particularly deep there, as can be seen by the top of the trusses still being above water after they fell.

The deepest pier of the Oakland Bay Bridge is 243ft below mean sea level, with the shallowest being 100ft.

[gilbertharding]

The depth of the water under the bridge at Baltimore at the time of the collision was about 50ft (it was at high tide). it's not particularly deep there, as can be seen by the top of the trusses still being above water after they fell.

The deepest pier of the Oakland Bay Bridge is 243ft below mean sea level, with the shallowest being 100ft.

Hmmm... so that's not the reason they built what's basically a small island in Oakland but not in Baltimore then.

Just had a look at some of our proud British bridges for comparison. Quite substantial lumps of stuff around the pylons for the Dartford crossing. Less so around the Severn bridges.

[Huxleys Babkins]

That seems pretty mental. The timber seems like cladding/decoration, serving to reduce scratching the paint on your hull. The concrete is fixed to the face of the primary structure! So acts as....a kind of crumple zone? Can't imagine you reduce the speed of 90,000 tons much in 5 feet. Or presumably even a smaller tanker from the 70s.

It's easy to criticise, but I would say this; that bridge had stood there for nearly 52 years. In 1972, no one died. In 1973, no one died. In 1974, no one died. In 1975, no one died. In 1976, no one died. In 1977, no one died. In 1978, no one died. In 1979, no one died. In 1980, there was the incident with the cargo ship. In 1981, no one died. In 1982, no one died. In 1983, no one died. In 1984, no one died. In 1985, no one died. In 1986, no one died. In 1987, no one died. In 1988, no one died. In 1989, no one died. In 1990, no one died. In 1991, no one died. In 1992, no one died. In 1993, no one died. In 1994, no one died. In 1995, no one died. In 1996, no one died. In 1997, no one died. In 1998, no one died. In 1999, no one died. In 2000, no one died. In 2001, no one died. In 2002, no one died. In 2003, no one died. In 2004, no one died. In 2005, no one died. In 2006, no one died. In 2007, no one died. In 2008, no one died. In 2009, no one died. In 2010, no one died. In 2011, no one died. In 2012, no one died. In 2013, no one died. In 2014, no one died. In 2015, no one died. In 2016, no one died. In 2017, no one died. In 2018, no one died. In 2019, no one died. In 2020, no one died. In 2021, no one died. In 2022, no one died. In 2023, no one died. In 2024, six people died. In 2025... I mean, I could go on.

[buzby]

Hmmm... so that's not the reason they built what's basically a small island in Oakland but not in Baltimore then.

As I said, the Batimore bridge was built at a time when money was tight as a cut-price alternative to a second tunnel.

Regarding my earlier post, it turns out that a study was done after the 1980 Sunshine Skyway collision to update the collisioo survival specs for new bridges and also to identify existing bridges that were at risk (Guide Specification and Commentary for Vessel Collision Design of Highway Bridges, US Department of Transportation, Federal Highway Administration, Publ. No. FHWA-RD-9 1-006, Dec. 1990) which was made an AASHTO standard in 1991 and has been periodically updated since. It gives formulas for calculating collision probablilites and impact forces based on the level of traffic and vessel sizes and average speeds, and also formulas for determining the cost of disruption and replacement in the event of a span loss to evaluate against the cost of implementing any defensive upgrades.

Unfortunately the Baltimore bridge was under the jurisdiction of the Maryland DoT (despite it being part of the route of Interstate 695, which is under the control of the Federal Highways Administration) and it was left up to the individual states to evaluate and implement any upgrades if/when they could find the budget.

A cargo ship did apparently collide with one of the piers of the Baltimore bridge in 1980, a couple of months after the Sunshine Skyway collision, but the defences worked as they expected so the ship can't have been very big.

It's easy to criticise, but I would say this; that bridge had stood there for nearly 52 years. In 1972, no one died

It didn't open until 1977. Construction started in 1972.

[Dex Sawash]

This cunt dredged yet?

[Uncle TechTip]

Hmmm... so that's not the reason they built what's basically a small island in Oakland but not in Baltimore then.

Just had a look at some of our proud British bridges for comparison. Quite substantial lumps of stuff around the pylons for the Dartford crossing. Less so around the Severn bridges.

Are there any container ports upstream of the Severn bridge?

[Jeff Bridgeѕ]

My deepest sympathies to all bridges during these difficult times.

[Dex Sawash]

finally

[Dex Sawash]

I've spent 2 minutes on street view trying to figure out how they stopped traffic. I don't see any permanent closing gates like a drawbridge might have. There is a message board at the toll cameras but if I saw that pop up with a "BRIDGE CLOSED" message, I am nailing it and crossing at top speed because whatever it is can wait for me to get across.

I suppose if it said "BIG FUCKOFF CONTAINER SHIP HAS LOST CONTROL AND MAY HIT BRIDGE RIGHT FUCKING NOW" I might still chance it at 3am faced with finding an alternate route around

[Dex Sawash]

^ @buzby obvs


Or @Jeff Bridges

[Endicott]

I suppose if it said "BIG FUCKOFF CONTAINER SHIP HAS LOST CONTROL AND MAY HIT BRIDGE RIGHT FUCKING NOW" I might still chance it at 3am faced with finding an alternate route around

You'd have a boat strapped to your roof of course.

[greenman]

Hmmm... so that's not the reason they built what's basically a small island in Oakland but not in Baltimore then.

Just had a look at some of our proud British bridges for comparison. Quite substantial lumps of stuff around the pylons for the Dartford crossing. Less so around the Severn bridges.

The shipping that goes under the Severn Bridges is pretty tiny though.

[buzby]

I've spent 2 minutes on street view trying to figure out how they stopped traffic. I don't see any permanent closing gates like a drawbridge might have. There is a message board at the toll cameras but if I saw that pop up with a "BRIDGE CLOSED" message, I am nailing it and crossing at top speed because whatever it is can wait for me to get across.

I suppose if it said "BIG FUCKOFF CONTAINER SHIP HAS LOST CONTROL AND MAY HIT BRIDGE RIGHT FUCKING NOW" I might still chance it at 3am faced with finding an alternate route around

The Maryland Transport Authority Police have a station in the complex on the north side of the bridge (you can see a few of the cops here). A unit from there stopped sounthbound traffic, but in a stroke of luck there seemed to have been a unit that was travelling northbound in I-695 towards the the bridge that responsed to the dispatcher's call to stop all traffic on that side after they received the mayday.

[gilbertharding]

The shipping that goes under the Severn Bridges is pretty tiny though.

Sure. I guess what I was actually saying in my post was that these things need to be properly risk-assessed, and from the two cases I looked at, probably are.

[touchingcloth]

Has anyone ever actually fucked a bridge? Maybe that poster that interfered with giant squids.