Blackadder DVD - Some Extras At Last?

[TJ]

http://playcom.at/cookdandbombd?DURL=http://www.play.com/play247.asp?page=title&r=R2&title=717669&p=57&g=72&pa=sr

Six discs... four series plus the specials (including The Cavalier Years, which is presumably on here and has just been missed off the listing) would only take up five discs, so what's on the other one?

[Emergency Lalla Ward Ten]

Presumably, Disc 5 will be Christmas Carol and Disc 6 will be Back and Forth/Cavalier Years. Straight re-issues of the old discs but in a box shaped like a turnip or something.

That's Roobarb's theory, anyway:

http://www.zetaminor.com/roobarb/index.php?showtopic=7240&hl=blackadder

[Dark Sky]

Was the Cavalier Years on the original Back and Forth DVD, or are you just being hopeful?

I don't understand why they don't seem to think there's a market in releasing good DVDs brimming with extras for a series such as Blackadder...  Or is it just going to be too expensive to hire out Rowan Atkinson et al for interviews, commentaries, etc?  And doesn't Atkinson block outtakes and the like?

[Emergency Lalla Ward Ten]

Was the Cavalier Years on the original Back and Forth DVD?

Yup.

[Dark Sky]

Why the fuck did I buy the VHS.  Why.

[Jemble Fred]

Thing is, the NTSC DVDs are still a better bet, surely? I think they've got short documentaries and interviews and even a sing-a-long thing. And it's cheaper.

[Darrell]

Thing is, the NTSC DVDs are still a better bet, surely?

They're NTSC though. Surely the point of buying Blackadder on DVD is to own all the episodes in broadcast quality, not to own all the episodes as smeary standards conversions that have the colour quality and saturation of VHS?

Also: the NTSC discs may be cheaper on the surface, but you could just as easily get stung for loads of customs charges too.

[Jemble Fred]

I'd rather have slightly lower picture quality (not having that bleedin picture quality debate yet again – for the record, I don't give a stuff about picture or sound quality, as long as I can see and hear the entertainment without annoyance) for a cheaper DVD set with a few extras. Custom charges? You could have the whole lot off Amazon in less than 48 hours, and it'd be cheaper than buying this vanilla PAL boxset off the shelf.

[Darrell]

For people who don't care about picture or sound quality surely there is then just the easy 'tape them off the telly' option?

[Emergency Lalla Ward Ten]

Yeah, stick with the VHS tapes if picture quality doesn't bother you.

Then again, the picture quality looks dubious on the DVDs, anyway - nasty pixels swarming about whenever there's a dark background.

[Darrell]

Then again, the picture quality looks dubious on the DVDs, anyway - nasty pixels swarming about whenever there's a dark background.

I do know what you mean, but a little fiddle with the brightness and contrast solves all that. It's just that awkward 80s-TV-style milkiness which has encoded badly to disc.

[Emergency Lalla Ward Ten]

Other stuff from the same period (and earlier) looks crisp and fine, though - eg, Yes Minister. Never really understood why that is.

I suspect the doc/interviews on the R1 discs are pretty grim. The only extras that would make me buy the Blackadder discs are the pilot, the out-takes, docs from the time (eg, Behind the Screen), and as much of the Goes Forth rushes they can cram in. Or a serious commentary from John Lloyd or someone else good. I can live without a wehadalotoffunmakingit-thon.

[El Unicornio, mang]

I still don't get this NTSC vs PAL thing. I've got dvd's of the same film on NTSC and PAL and there's fuck all difference, they're both crystal clear. I've yet to see a dvd that looks anything like VHS (with the possible exception of my cheapy Glengarry Glen Ross dvd, which is PAL anyway)

Does anyone have screencaps that compare NTSC and PAL? I'd be interested to see the differences

[Darrell]

Other stuff from the same period (and earlier) looks crisp and fine, though - eg, Yes Minister. Never really understood why that is.

Different lighting, different tape stock, different amount of transfers taken from the masters. Most 80s TV ages absolutely abominably, it was all recorded on bloody sellotape.

The Blackadder discs aren't exactly perfect but there's nothing short of magic can make them any better, sadly.

[Emergency Lalla Ward Ten]

I still don't get this NTSC vs PAL thing. I've got dvd's of the same film on NTSC and PAL and there's fuck all difference, they're both crystal clear. I've yet to see a dvd that looks anything like VHS (with the possible exception of my cheapy Glengarry Glen Ross dvd, which is PAL anyway)

My R1 Curb Your Enthusiasm discs tend to flicker unpleasantly, particularly during the pilot and the interviews. I don't know if that's just my cheapo player though. R1 discs of films tend to be fine - it's just video material it seems unsure of.

[Darrell]

Does anyone have screencaps that compare NTSC and PAL? I'd be interested to see the differences

It's more in the speed, resolution and movement - screengrabs wouldn't be a very good example.

PAL transfers of NTSC-originated things usually without exception run slightly faster than their American originals. If you've ever wondered why songs sound a semitone higher and a bit faster on film credits and in TV shows, you now know why. They do this so that the frames aren't blurred and instead are as defined and seperated as they can be.

The R2 DVDs of Futurama, The Simpsons, Seinfeld, Curb Your Enthusiasm, Family Guy, uncountable piles of films, all that stuff - all faster than American viewers would be used to. Sometimes they apply pitch correction, sometimes they don't (some Futurama eps on R2 DVD are pitch-corrected and some aren't, and make good case study material).

NTSC transfers of PAL things are done a completely different way - the frames are all smeared into each other to fit their 60fps standards. It's just degrading the quality, basically. The resolution, colour definition, smoothness of movement and so on develops similar, though not as extreme, attributes to that of VHS. When you then play this back on an NTSC-compatible British telly (or worse, on a PAL-only telly with jerky filmising-esque player-generated standards conversion), you might as well just be watching a videotape or worse.

[Darrell]

My R1 Curb Your Enthusiasm discs tend to flicker unpleasantly, particularly during the pilot and the interviews. I don't know if that's just my cheapo player though. R1 discs of films tend to be fine - it's just video material it seems unsure of.

Set your player to 'NTSC' or 'MULTI' when playing R1 discs and see if that's better. I've seen a (albeit blurry) photo of your telly and I'd be very surprised if it wasn't NTSC compatiable. When PAL DVD players automatically convert NTSC to PAL, the effect is similar to filmising but much jerkier - hence it not being as noticeable on films themselves.

[El Unicornio, mang]

Does anyone have screencaps that compare NTSC and PAL? I'd be interested to see the differences

It's more in the speed, resolution and movement - screengrabs wouldn't be a very good example.

PAL transfers of NTSC-originated things usually without exception run slightly faster than their American originals. If you've ever wondered why songs sound a semitone higher and a bit faster on film credits and in TV shows, you now know why. They do this so that the frames aren't blurred and instead are as defined and seperated as they can be.
.

Yeah, I heard about the difference in speed. VHS were always different to theatre versions too, one being 25fps and the other 24fps (or something similar) meaning that they always had slightly different running times.

[Garfield And Friends]

The effect of movement becomes smooth to the human eye at about 19 frames per second, or thereabouts, so motion pictures at 24fps (cinema), at 25fps (PAL), and at 30fps (NTSC) are obviously more than sufficient at conveying it.

Of course with NTSC, you're losing a significant number of scanlines per frame (i.e. less resolution per frame). Mostly because of that, I tend to stick to PAL region 2 DVDs.

[Capuchin]

Anyone know if this other BBC re-release is just repackaging or something new?
http://www.bbcshop.com/invt/ebbcdvd1794&bklist=%3Cvenda_bklist1%3E

[Jemble Fred]

I'm pretty sure that's the same FT release with different packaging – there isn't really anything else they could put on there, realistically. Well, there probably is, but it's a BBC release isn't it.

For people who don't care about picture or sound quality surely there is then just the easy 'tape them off the telly' option?

Hm. You know, I could have sworn there were more reasons for watching DVDs than just sound and picture quality... some form of other benefit.... An extra feature to the format, if you will... let me have a think abut this...

[Emergency Lalla Ward Ten]

Hm. You know, I could have sworn there were more reasons for watching DVDs than just sound and picture quality... some form of other benefit.... An extra feature to the format, if you will... let me have a think abut this...

But the extras are either non-existent (R2) or tokenistic (R1), so there's no point really. As I say, if they'd put lots of out-takes and rare stuff on there, that'd be a reason to buy them.

[Jemble Fred]

Well, quite. But it's easy to forget that DVD is also a more convenient format in other ways – having chapters and so on. But it's precisely because so many great DVDs turn out to be disappointments that I am perfectly happy sticking with my VHS copies – why should I bin my tape containing all of VRBNO, the NY Special, trailers, interviews and The Weekenders in favour of that DVD?

I could almost be happy with a Blackadder DVD without any interviews or specially made stuff, as long as it contained all the actual Blackadder performances, which would include the Pilot, the Jubilee advert, the Prince's Trust sketch, and gawd knows how many Baldrick special appearances there have been.

For me personally, the ultimate point is – this show is the best that comedy gets. Nothing is better, IMO. For its DVD incarnation to have any less care lavished on it than Fawlty Towers or The Office makes me SHOUT.

[Emergency Lalla Ward Ten]

Well, quite. But it's easy to forget that DVD is also a more convenient format in other ways – having chapters and so on.  

You know, it struck me the other day that I never use Scene Selection. OK, maybe on a film, but not on a half-hour TV show. I was doing some editspotting on Alexei Sayle's Stuff last night and found whizzing back and forth on the old VHS tape so much easier than (maddeningly) trying to find stuff on the DVD.

But it's precisely because so many great DVDs turn out to be disappointments that I am perfectly happy sticking with my VHS copies – why should I bin my tape containing all of VRBNO, the NY Special, trailers, interviews and The Weekenders in favour of that DVD?

My only reason for boycotting it is the absence of NYS and the ad bumpers, to be honest - because they're a part of the series, and there's no reason/excuse for them to be omitted. Other extras should be included too, of course, but their absence doesn't make me froth at the mouth so much - the idea of all 15 episodes uncut in broadcast quality is reason enough to buy it.

I could almost be happy with a Blackadder DVD without any interviews or specially made stuff, as long as it contained all the actual Blackadder performances, which would include the Pilot, the Jubilee advert, the Prince's Trust sketch, and gawd knows how many Baldrick special appearances there have been.

Ooh, I don't know...I think I'd make 'Goodbye-ee' the cut-off point, myself. Otherwise you'd have to include all sorts of shit.

The thing is, I don't think of 'good picture quality' as some nerdy, perfectionist concern - I think it's all part of treating a comedy show with respect. The idea that you can watch a comedy show in broadcast quality in your own home still seems extraordinary to me. And I think seeing a show you really love with that level of crispness and detail is a pleasure/thing of beauty in itself.

[Jemble Fred]

Ooh, I don't know...I think I'd make 'Goodbye-ee' the cut-off point, myself. Otherwise you'd have to include all sorts of shit.

WHAT? Sorry, but... but surely that completely misses the whole point of any Blackadder DVD release, the whole point of this thread, and perhaps even life itself. I am shocked and stunned. How can you be bothered about little things like ad breaks in BNO (which I also believe are important) but then dismiss all the far more crucial extra Blackadder performances like you just have? What are we arguing about if not the crucial need to have things like the Prince's Trust sketch? If that's the attitude, then consider this thread locked – this DVD boxset will obviously 'do'.

Why bother with the NY Special of Big Night Out? May as well just have the proper episodes, otherwise you'd have to include all sorts of shit.

I'd like to continue the banter, but now I'm risking my job.

[Emergency Lalla Ward Ten]

WHAT? Sorry, but that completely misses the whole point of any Blackadder DVD release, the whole point of this thread, and perhaps even life itself. I am shocked and stunned. If that's the attitude, then consider this thread locked – this DVD boxset will obviously 'do'.

No, you misunderstand - I mean the final episode of Goes Forth officially marks the end of the proper Blackadder canon, so all extras (of which there should be many) should come from 1983-89. Plus the pilot.

I just shudder at the thought of four million 90s clips of Baldrick with the wrong wig on saying 'turnip' on Children In Need, or Atkinson's pisspoor Jubilee trailers or whatever they were, or tons badly-performed, under-written, mugging-to-the-Royal-Box shit from some rancid stage shows...all of them included for completism, but wasting bitrate that could be used for rushes footage.

It's like the KMKYWAP DVD which has to include all those dreadful Partridge Comic Relief appearances, simply because they're there, which meant there wasn't room for the full pilot. Despite the fact that the pilot has more right to be on the disc than anything else.

[Jemble Fred]

Well. I really do not understand that attitude at all. Blackadder didn't end in 1989, if indeed it ended at all. Who but Curtis, Atkinson, Lloyd and Elton could decide otherwise?

You have seen the pilot? It's far worse than the Prince's Trust sketch. Why bother with that? It should be all or nowt. They've obviously gone for the latter.

[Emergency Lalla Ward Ten]

You have seen the pilot? It's far worse than the Prince's Trust sketch.

Not to me - I think it's a fine piece of work. I prefer it to the transmitted first series anyway. The way he says '...You can play the Scotsman!' is quite lovely.

Anyway, even if the pilot was terrible, I'd argue it should be included for 'it's interesting to see how the series developed' reasons. I can't say the same for all the post-Goes Forth stuff, really - an illustration of how they flogged their dead horse or misunderstood why the show was good in the first place, maybe. But the 1983-89 stuff should take priority, if bitrate's an issue.

I mean, are you saying you'd rather have the Prince's Trust sketch and the Jubilee stuff than 'In the Studio: A nice long look at the Private Plane recording session'?

[Jemble Fred]

Ah. Well, we're not going to agree on this I suppose.

Fact is, the sketches that came after 1989 are Canon – the pilot isn't. They're part of the Blackadder saga, whereas the pilot has no real connection to the other shows, simply being an awkward dry run for the general concept.

Plus I have no doubt that RA won't ever let the pilot be seen. Partly for the reason above, partly perhaps out of vanity. But I'd have thought that he'd want the Royal stuff.

Except perhaps the It's A Knockout footage....

[Emergency Lalla Ward Ten]

No, I see the post-Goes Forth stuff as the equivalent of Free as a Bird or Carry On Columbus - technically they're a continuation of the canon, but...well, they're obviously not. They're just reunions, which Goes Forth wasn't - it had a purpose behind it, and was a project for its own sake. Plus, it was really good.

I just reckon that if bitrate is limited (which it always will be), then supplementary material related to the four main series should take priority. Long before they even think of including all the half-arsed 00s stuff.