Obvious Things You 0nly Just Realised - 2020

[buzby]

Bruce Lee was an American.

EDIT: And to follow on from that, Brandon Lee wasn't killed by a blank round in the way I'd assumed - a blank going off in too close proximity - but by a bullet lodged in the gun's barrel being ejected by a blank round. So he got properly shot by a slightly less powerful bullet, rather than fake shot with a more powerful than usual blank, which is the idea I've had in my mind for god knows how many years.

Yes, the armourer had made his own dummy rounds by taking real cartridges, removing the bullet to empty the powder out and then pushing the bullet back in (rather than using solid cast metal or resin dummy rounds that are made expressly for that purpose).

A revolver had been loaded with these dummy rounds earlier, and the actor had pulled the trigger which detonated the primer (basically like a more powerful cap from a cap gun) on the empty round. The explosion generated enough gas to push the bullet out of the empty case into the barrel. The revolver was then loaded with blanks for a stunt shot and the armourer didn't noticed one of the  bullets was missing.

Blanks for film are generally loaded quite 'hot' to produce a bright muzzle flash (and on automatics to generate enough gas to get the gun to cycle) The first blank was fired from the gun which then blew the bullet out of the barrel and shot the unfortunate Mr. Lee.

[Replies From View]

Surprising that they couldn't ever use a device that goes FUCKING BANG MATE without actually firing something out of its nozzle.  Or just add the JESUS MATE THAT'S FUCKING LOUD noise in post production by stamping on a balloon or something.

[buzby]

Surprising that they couldn't ever use a device that goes FUCKING BANG MATE without actually firing something out of its nozzle.  Or just add the JESUS MATE THAT'S FUCKING LOUD noise in post production by stamping on a balloon or something.

They did - it was quite common for prop heavy machine guns to be converted to use propane gas to provide a muzzle flash and sound. It's impractical for smaller machine guns, rifles and pistols though. Instead, they are converted into blank firing guns by having the barrel partially plugged with a restrictor (which both builds up gas pressure to cycle the action, and prevents a bullet being fired down it without it exploding) and the locking lugs from the bolt or barrel are reduced or removed, also to make it easier for the lower pressure of a blank cartridge to cycle the action (it was also common to convert guns in other calibres such as .45 to 9mm as part of the process ,as 9mm blank rounds were the most reliable and easiest to source)

Nowadays they tend to use airsoft replica guns and add the muzzle flash and spent cartridges with CGI.

[Ferris]

Did your school have a completely incorrect rumour about how Bruce Lee died?

Yes, something about car racing? Don't fully remember

[touchingcloth]

Did your school have a completely incorrect rumour about how Bruce Lee died?

We had the incorrect rumour about Kel from off of Kenan and Kel having died in a car crash, but Bruce Lee, not so much. I had an incorrect rumour from my dad about how he died because "he took lots of aspirin to deal with the pain of all of the kung fu, but it ate away at his stomach lining and now he's dead". Reading his wiki page, though, that's merely "incorrect" rather than "completely incorrect". It's in the ballpark.

[touchingcloth]

Yes, the armourer had made his own dummy rounds by taking real cartridges, removing the bullet to empty the powder out and then pushing the bullet back in (rather than using solid cast metal or resin dummy rounds that are made expressly for that purpose).

A revolver had been loaded with these dummy rounds earlier, and the actor had pulled the trigger which detonated the primer (basically like a more powerful cap from a cap gun) on the empty round. The explosion generated enough gas to push the bullet out of the empty case into the barrel. The revolver was then loaded with blanks for a stunt shot and the armourer didn't noticed one of the  bullets was missing.

Blanks for film are generally loaded quite 'hot' to produce a bright muzzle flash (and on automatics to generate enough gas to get the gun to cycle) The first blank was fired from the gun which then blew the bullet out of the barrel and shot the unfortunate Mr. Lee.

It sounds like it was - as always with these sorts of things, cf. Chernobyl - a series of  perfect storms which led to it. The crew making their own dummy rounds from real bullets as you note rather than buying purpose built blanks, and then the firearms supervisor being away on the day of the shoot meaning that a non-firearms techie was given the job of preparing the gun. From what I read, the usual practice would involve someone checking the barrel before and after use, so the lodged bullet would have been spotted.

On this comment of yours:

the armourer had made his own dummy rounds by taking real cartridges, removing the bullet to empty the powder out and then pushing the bullet back in (rather than using solid cast metal or resin dummy rounds that are made expressly for that purpose).

Why those materials rather than, say, cotton wadding? I'd have thought having any hard projectile at all would be dangerous, but perhaps it is and my original thought that it was one of those things which had killed Lee owing to him being closer to the gun than he should have been is still a thing which could happen (I remember that Derren Brown Russian roulette thing and he made a big fuss about how the blanks he was using could've killed him given the range)?

[JesusAndYourBush]

Did your school have a completely incorrect rumour about how Bruce Lee died?

Dim mak was the version I heard.  Wiki says no.

[buzby]

It sounds like it was - as always with these sorts of things, cf. Chernobyl - a series of  perfect storms which led to it. The crew making their own dummy rounds from real bullets as you note rather than buying purpose built blanks, and then the firearms supervisor being away on the day of the shoot meaning that a non-firearms techie was given the job of preparing the gun. From what I read, the usual practice would involve someone checking the barrel before and after use, so the lodged bullet would have been spotted.

The director apparently wanted a close-up of Funboy pointing his revolver into the camera which either wasn't in  that day's shooting schedule or the armourer had  forgot to bring a set of dummy rounds to put in the gun (as a revolver has open ended chambers in it's cylinder, leaving it empty would be noticable and it is forbidden to even put blanks in a gun pointed directly at the camera without a bulletproof screen in the way).  Rather than go back to his workshop to get a set of dummy rounds, the armourer brought some live ammunition from his truck and improvised a set of dummy rounds by removing the powder from the live ammunition.

After the scene the gun was unloaded (with the missing bullet going unnoticed, stuck in the barrel) and it wasn't used again until the stunt scene 2 weeks later, when it was loaded with blanks.

It was a gross breach of on-set safety protocols by the armourer. You should never use deactivated unfired cartridges (i.e. the powder removed and an unfired primer left in place) as dummy rounds as there is no way to tell them apart from a real live round (if the primer has been fired the firing pin leaves a dent in the centre of it). Live ammunition should never be anywhere near a movie set either, for obvious reasons. It should also be standard practice on film sets and firing ranges to store functional weapons unloaded with a Clear Barrel Indicator fitted (a long yellow or orange plastic rod with a flag on the end that is fitted though the empty chamber and the entire length of the barrel on pistols) to make it obvious that the chamber is empty and the barrel is clear.

On this comment of yours:

Why those materials rather than, say, cotton wadding? I'd have thought having any hard projectile at all would be dangerous, but perhaps it is and my original thought that it was one of those things which had killed Lee owing to him being closer to the gun than he should have been is still a thing which could happen (I remember that Derren Brown Russian roulette thing and he made a big fuss about how the blanks he was using could've killed him given the range)?

A 'dummy round' is a solid replica of the complete cartridge, both case and bullet, cast in metal, resin or rubber, and then painted to make it look real (in the military, they bullet is usually painted blue to identify them as inert). They can also be made by taking a an empty case, removing the primer (if it had one), filing the case with resin and solidly glueing either a real bullet or plastic/rubber replica bullet into the end, and glueing a replica solid rubber primer in the other end (so that if the trigger is pulled it doesn't damage the firing pin of the gun).

In films it's these dummy rounds that should be used whenever a closeup of a visibly loaded gun is required, or the shot requires the actors to load a gun. Blanks are only ever used in firing scenes, and in most cases the gun will have been modified with at least a barrel restrictor fitted (see my last post) which would prevent anything but gas passing down the barrel. Unfotrunately this cannot really be done with revolvers, as if you restrict the barrel the gas will follow the path of least resistance and mostly vent out of the gap between the cylinder and barrel (which would also risk burning the actor's hand).

The plastic or fibre wadding that seals the end of the cartridge in a blank round and/or the percussive force of the gas blast can still wound and even kill at point-blank range (as happened with the unfortunate Jon-Erik Hexum on the set of the TV show Cover-Up in 1984 when he was playing russian roulette with a blank-loaded .44 Magnum during a delay between takes). For this reason if a scene requires that a close-range blank shot is required (such as a character commiting suicide) a specially modified 'suicide gun' is used, which has the barrel solidly welded up and a gas vent drilled into the barrel or receiver at 90 degrees to the barrel axis so nothing will be fired towards the actor.

[EditGlitch Removal Person]

Happy to help!

[Ferris]

Somebody must have pulled the trigger to discharge the primer in the makeshift "dummy" round and squibbed the barrel.

[buzby]

Somebody must have pulled the trigger to discharge the primer in the makeshift "dummy" round and squibbed the barrel.

A revolver had been loaded with these dummy rounds earlier, and the actor had pulled the trigger which detonated the primer (basically like a more powerful cap from a cap gun) on the empty round. The explosion generated enough gas to push the bullet out of the empty case into the barrel. The revolver was then loaded with blanks for a stunt shot and the armourer didn't noticed one of the  bullets was missing.

[Ferris]

^I knew you'd have it covered

[touchingcloth]

It should also be standard practice on film sets and firing ranges to store functional weapons unloaded with a Clear Barrel Indicator fitted (a long yellow or orange plastic rod with a flag on the end that is fitted though the empty chamber and the entire length of the barrel on pistols) to make it obvious that the chamber is empty and the barrel is clear.

Thanks as ever for the detail.

Is there a particular reason why it's only the practice to insert the rods down the full length of the barrel on pistols? The long rifle-y thing in the picture you posted would seem like it could have something jammed just out of reach of the rod, when plastic's cheap and I can't imagine that in the kinds of places you mention they're used that storage space for them is at a particular premium.

[buzby]

Thanks as ever for the detail.

Is there a particular reason why it's only the practice to insert the rods down the full length of the barrel on pistols? The long rifle-y thing in the picture you posted would seem like it could have something jammed just out of reach of the rod, when plastic's cheap and I can't imagine that in the kinds of places you mention they're used that storage space for them is at a particular premium.

You can get long CBI rods for rifles too,, but most range or competition rules only mandate full length CBIs for pistols only. It's sensible drill practice to do a visual clear barrel check before loading a weapon anyway. It has to be said that squibs are also much more of a problem with people who load their own ammunition (i.e. forgetting to load the powder, or an underweight powder load) than with commercially-produced ammunition.

[Ferris]

You can get long CBI rods for rifles too,, but most range or competition rules only mandate full length CBIs for pistols only. It's sensible drill practice to do a visual clear barrel check before loading a weapon anyway. It has to be said that squibs are also much more of a problem with people who load their own ammunition (i.e. forgetting to load the powder, or an underweight powder load) than with commercially-produced ammunition.

It's the reason I steer clear of loading my own ammunition. I've also never used a full length hold-open device thing on pistols either (usually just a little orange job that goes in the chamber and sticks out the extractor bit that stops the slide closing forward) but I imagine that changes person to person/range to range.

[touchingcloth]

I've also never used a full length hold-open device thing on pistols either ... but I imagine that changes person to person/range to range.

It actually doesn't.

[buzby]

I've also never used a full length hold-open device thing on pistols either (usually just a little orange job that goes in the chamber and sticks out the extractor bit that stops the slide closing forward) but I imagine that changes person to person/range to range.

A Clear Chamber Indicator? Full length CBIs are part of the rules for ISSF-regulated competition events (they call them Safety Flags and for rifles they suggest taping a pistol-length CBI to a length of strimmer line long enough to protrude out of the muzzle end). In the US it seems the NRA are happy with just a CCI in their competition rules. However USA Shooting (the Olympic level competition body) have adopted the ISSF rules for events they sanction, the damned dirty pinko commies.

[Ferris]

A Clear Chamber Indicator? Full length CBIs are part of the rules for ISSF-regulated competition events (they call them Safety Flags and for rifles they suggest taping a pistol-length CBI to a length of strimmer line long enough to protrude out of the muzzle end). In the US it seems the NRA are happy with just a CCI in their competition rules. However USA Shooting (the Olympic level competition body) have adopted the ISSF rules for events they sanction, the damned dirty pinko commies.

I've never done competitive target shooting in North America so can't comment! At competitions in the UK, we just had to leave the bolt fully open or the shotgun open and that was it. None of this ornamental plastic carryon.

[kittens]

Philanthropist

phil = love
anthro = human

they love human

but what about pist???

[DrGreggles]

but what about pist???

Ski slope innit

[NoSleep]

Philanthropist

phil = love
anthro = human

they love human

but what about pist???

The p is part of "anthrope". So misanthrope is a person who hates mankind.

[touchingcloth]

What about "rope"?

[Dewt]

And what if Misteranthropes? Feminism is erasing men

[touchingcloth]

That's fair enough as we don't talk about Hollyanthropists so things balance overall.

[QDRPHNC]

It should be whodidit.

[DistressedArea]

Prince Harry is a man, so his bants are actually buncles.

[touchingcloth]

It should be whodidit.

I think it's just base on police and detective ways of spoke, like how they have special ways of talking on CB radio ten seven. If there's be a murder in your house the police coming and says "whodunnit?", but the DCI will been more formal and asked the police when they got back to the office "who done the murder?" the correct response from the police to which was "roger, sarge".

[bgmnts]

Bruce Lee was an American.

Born in America to two Asian parents and moved to Hong Kong at 3 months, spending his formative years there.

Is that American? Dunno.

[touchingcloth]

Born in America to two Asian parents and moved to Hong Kong at 3 months, spending his formative years there.

Is that American? Dunno.

Wiki describes him as a Honk Kong-American, which seems entirely fair. I'd say "jus soli", but it could come across as racist in the context.

[Pseudopath]

Wiki describes him as a Honk Kong-American, which seems entirely fair. I'd say "jus soli", but it could come across as racist in the context.

No more racist than calling it Honk Kong.