The Story of Light Entertainment

[Emergency Lalla Ward Ten]

Did anyone see this yesterday? It wasn't very good.

Too wide a brief, that's the problem. It wasn't even comedy they were looking at, which would have been an unmanageably huge subject anyway, but 'entertainment'. Which incorporates everyone from Jeremy Beadle to Morecambe and Wise to Derek and Clive, apparently.

Usual tenuous links between subjects too, with an inaccurate timeline imposed on everything to make the 'story' easier.

Too many mistakes as well, mainly with dates. And some ludicrous captioning as well - Geoffrey Perkins is 'Writer, The World According to Smith and Jones' apparently.

And I always get queasy when BBC docs gush over recent successes at the end (in this case, Lucas and Walliams) with an undercurrent of 'there it is, the end of history, we've evolved into perfection'.

Why does this series exist? What's the point in it? It's just a clipshow in a random order.

[Brutus Beefcake]

Glad I forgot about it then.

[Garam]

I saw the second half. Fry and Laurie got a 20 second bit (despite Fry being the narrator), while Ant and Dec got about 5 minutes. Lee and Herring weren't included at all, and they didn't show any non-LB Lucas and Walliams stuff.

Some nice looking raw footage of the Weekenders, though. And a surprisingly large bit devoted to Newman and Baddiel.

No inclusion of the Boosh, too. Phew.

[Brutus Beefcake]

A show on double acts that wasn't already confined to "light entertainment" would have been better.

[Oscar]

Too wide a brief, that's the propblem. It wasn't even comedy they were looking at, which would have been an unmanageably huge subject anyway, but 'entertaiment'. Which incororates everyone from Jeremy Beadle to Morecambe and Wise to Derek and Clive, apparently.

It had a last-minute feel to it. I had an argument with my flatmate about why Fry and Laurie were hardly in it - I said because Fry was presenting and it would have been odd, he said because they were using comedians who changed comedy and Fry and Laurie didn't (this was what I disagreed with) anyway with Fry's comment about himself and Laurie "And these two are too lovely to each other to be included" and then his bit at the end about how double acts have a lot more to them than just comedy, I decided the actual title should have been "Double acts and how they don't get on", which is quite specific.

And I always get queasy when BBC docs gush over recent successes at the end (in this case, Lucas and Walliams) with an undercurrent of 'there it is, the end of history, we've evolved into perfection'.

Can I tentavely suggest that they didn't really imply this and that you are a little paranoid?

Why does this series exist? What's the point in it? It's just a clipshow in a random order.

Because it's cheap and easy - I too have my paranoia.

[benthalo]

Hated this. 8 x 90mins, just above the level of I Love xxxx and with the self-confidence of thinking it's the definitive story: the unavoidable whiff of Dancing In The Streets about a commission of this size, and it's saddled with the fatal flaw of being thematic rather than vaguely chronological throughout. C4's The Showbiz Set pulled this off far better and, tragically, the use of clips from BBC2's 1992 film on double acts for the Funny Business series was a loud-hailer in the ear that entry level arts documentaries are presently graceless turds, living in the sewer.

Picture research very good though. Dick Fiddy as consultant, proving that actual tv researchers can't do their jobs, although is this primed entirely for DVD release I wonder? The absence of Jerry Lewis & Dean Martin was fairly obvious I felt, as if clearance was too expensive this time around.

I read the Perkins caption as "The World Of Smith & Jones".

[Bert Thung]

And I always get queasy when BBC docs gush over recent successes at the end (in this case, Lucas and Walliams) with an undercurrent of 'there it is, the end of history, we've evolved into perfection'.

Can I tentavely suggest that they didn't really imply this and that you are a little paranoid?

I don't see why that's paranoid, I got the impression watching that doc last night that the main worth of Vic Reeves Big Night Out was that it influenced Little Britain. It's everywhere that shit. Even on the Big Night Out DVD, the only extra there is is an interview with Matt Lucas.

[Emergency Lalla Ward Ten]

It reminded me of the 40th anniversary of BBC2, where three hours of clips and reminiscences were edited so that a very clear line could be drawn leading to the all-conquering genius of Ricky Gervais, who was given ten minutes at the end to talk about himself as if he was some kind of ultimate BBC2 super-broadcaster.

I don't think that's paranoia - it's just producers making in-house plugs first and documentaries second. And that's a bad thing, rather than 'the way it is'. If ITV had made the doc, they would have ended on the footage of Ant and Dec.

[Bert Thung]

In 'The Story of ITV' they had a chavvy family saying that sitcoms were boring and dated. Then we were told therefore there was no need for ITV to attempt to make them cause I'm A Celebrity Get Me Out Of Here was a sitcom substitute superior to the original.

[rudi]

One whole post before you had to mention Gervais, Lalla - are you back off the pills again?


The ration of Ant n Dec to Fry n Laurie is no great surprise, surely?

While FnL are undoubtably super, they could never have been described as being as so incredibly popular and bankable as a double act  when compared to the toothsome Geordie chaps. In TV terms they're just that side of massive and are a 'light entertainment' juggernaut - they do funny, they do presenting, they do kids, they do saturday evening prime-time and they're ALWAYS part of that double act - FnL simply didn't do any of the above (bar funny, natch).


That said, it WAS shit (although I enjoyed Little and Large's terse remarks - they clearly have unresolved issues with each other).

[Emergency Lalla Ward Ten]

Dick Fiddy as consultant, proving that actual tv researchers can't do their jobs...

Who do we blame for the howlers though? Well, not necessarily howlers, just little bits of artistic licence that smoothed over/distorted the facts - playing material from Derek and Clive (Live) over footage from Get the Horn for example, and captioning it as the latter. The usual bollocks about MWE being a boyband-quartet from day one. The ropey chronology generally. Would they have been outside of Fiddles' control?

[Emergency Lalla Ward Ten]

While FnL are undoubtably super, they could never have been described as being as so incredibly popular and bankable as a double act  when compared to the toothsome Geordie chaps. In TV terms they're just that side of massive and are a 'light entertainment' juggernaut - they do funny, they do presenting, they do kids, they do saturday evening prime-time and they're ALWAYS part of that double act - FnL simply didn't do any of the above (bar funny, natch).

You could say the same thing about Cook and Moore in the 60s though - undoubtedly more famous than Fry and Laurie, but still ultimately a culty BBC2 kind of act rather than a Mike and Bernie Winters one. Ditto Baddiel and Newman. Influential? Yes. Popular in a mass-audience Ant and Dec sense? No. And yet they got covered.

That was the problem - the doc just didn't really know what it was supposed to be covering, or why. Its brief seemed to be 'mention everyone and anyone, so long as you talk about the success of Little Britain at the end'.

[Bert Thung]

Ant and Dec only generally get 6 million viewers for their shows. So effectively 9 out 10 people in the UK not watching you can be described as mainstream. And popular comedies on BBC2, only getting slightly lower figures than that, even now, is described as cult.

[rudi]

Baddiel and Newman were pretty fucking popular though - far more than F&L were (Wembley and all that) and Cook and Moore were also rather more famous when together than F&L (a product of fewer channels perhaps, but still...).

[Bert Thung]

It could be that Stephen Fry insisted they only had a cameo himself on the grounds that comedians don't have a fucking clue what their good stuff is. "I'm so embarrassed by that Police privatisation sketch. Thank goodness I'm doing real comedy now with Alan Davies". Hypothetical bollocks maybe, but it does have the ring of truth to it.

PS What infuriated most about that documentary is the person that usually infuriates me least in these types of shows, Paul Morley. Who in comparing Newman and Baddiel to Lennon and McCartney, managed not only to be wrong about Newman and Baddiel, but Lennon and McCartney too.

[Alberon]

David Baddiel had an article in one of the weekend papers about this show. He was slightly annoyed that the show concentrated on the strained relationships of some double acts.

In the Reeves and Mortimer bit he pointed out that they concentrated on a bit of criticism that Ronnie Barker made to the press after they did a remake of a Morecambe and Wise sketch with Tom Jones.

He said his interview bits were cut to make it look like the argument over whose name came first was important and he also pointed out that the 'History Today' sketch was concieved when they were best mates, as you can tell watching some of them.

And Stephen Fry did say something like in the VO that Fry and Laurie were 'far too fond of each other to appear in this documentary'.

[Jemble Fred]

I mean, there's no denying that this was simply mesmeric television, just for the previously-mentioned archive footage, and interviews with the comics.

But yes, massively flawed, with weird ommissions – why no ending to Cook & Moore's story? It would have made perfect sense to revisit their relationship in the nineties, and cover Cook's death etc. Plus of course the F&L ignorance made the whole thing a bt pointless. Not even a ten second mention of Martin & Lewis either, which wouldn't have been a problem if they'd also left out Abbott & Costello.

But, as has been said, no Boosh. It was very possible that they'd end with them, in a 'double acts have never been better' type way. To echo a previous poster, phew.

[benthalo]

Dick Fiddy as consultant, proving that actual tv researchers can't do their jobs...

Who do we blame for the howlers though? .... Would they have been outside of Fiddles' control?

I would expect so. Consultants tend to give pointers to the researchers and check whatever script material is passed on to them. I doubt the production team ran everything by him and, besides, editing traditionally creates howlers. I don't expect him to have been an all seeing eye but a good influence on what could have been far, far worse. The film research was generally fine, whereas everything else let it down.

What an absolute squander of a Steve Punt MWE-related interview.

[Ray Le Otter]

It did go on somewhat. The interviews however were fine - I always did wonder how Mike & Berniie Winters split up. How the fuck did Bernie Winters get away with the shite act with Schnorbitz for so long?

Always a joy to see any Morecambe & Wise again, but Little & Large? Were they ever funny? Well, I did laugh at their jokes once but in my defence I was aged 7. I even thought Cannon & Ball were good when I was 11. "Rock on Tommy!". Ah. You probably had to be there.

It was a waste of Steve Punt's interview though - the show did give the impression that Punt & Dennis were the weak link in TMWE, when looking back, that wasn't the case at all. Still, good to see that him & Hugh are still working together and looking okay, whereas what I gleaned from this show is that Newman & Baddiel fell out and got fat.

It was good to have it confirmed by Jon Plowman that Dawn & Jennifer actually don't bother planning any scripts for their show, as has been painfully apparent for years. I suppose that's their genius, Jon.

And that Little Britain eh? It's a Two Ronnies for the 21st Century. Yeah. My arse.

I actually enjoyed the programme when I was watching it on Saturday night, and now, looking back, I'm getting more and more angry.

[Emergency Lalla Ward Ten]

I mean, there's no denying that this was simply mesmeric television, just for the previously-mentioned archive footage, and interviews with the comics.

I think I would deny that, actually. All the tiny snippets of interesting footage came from previous (superior) documentaries. And all the interviews were edited with a tedious agenda in mind. 'The Dark Side of Little and Large' and all that shit.

BH mentioned Dancing in the Streets, which seems like The World at War comapred to this, but I remember it being torture at the time. It was like being told off for eight hours. 'You might think your precious Blurs and Nirvanas were important, but no - they only became popular due to the influence of Blind Pomegranate Twatface in 1912. Here he is...' Thing is, I'd actually prefer that approach now. 'Yeah, you think Little Britain are great don't you? Well I've got one word for you - perspective. Here's ten minutes of WC Fields sketches...'

[Jemble Fred]

I mean, there's no denying that this was simply mesmeric television, just for the previously-mentioned archive footage, and interviews with the comics.

I think I would deny that, actually. All the tiny snippets of interesting footage came from previous (superior) documentaries.

Really? I don't recall EVER seeing that Weekenders footage before, and I have every R&M documentary ever made. That's the one that made my jaw lower by a few milimetres.

Good use of some clips from the double act episode of 'Funny Business' too (definitely a superior doc, that one), and better clip choices than other recent Cook docs as well.

The negative side of the doc seems more glaring, but yes, quite an impressive use of the archives on this 'un.

[Emergency Lalla Ward Ten]

If that Weekenders footage was so rare, they should have shown more than three seconds from it.

And it seemed to be the same Cook and Moore clips they always show too - tap tap tap, are you enjoying that sandwich, etc. It's not as if there's a shortage of genuinely rare things they could unearth.

[Ray Le Otter]

I mean, there's no denying that this was simply mesmeric television, just for the previously-mentioned archive footage, and interviews with the comics.

I think I would deny that, actually. All the tiny snippets of interesting footage came from previous (superior) documentaries.

Really? I don't recall EVER seeing that Weekenders footage before, and I have every R&M documentary ever made. That's the one that made my jaw lower by a few milimetres.

Good use of some clips from the double act episode of 'Funny Business' too (definitely a superior doc, that one), and better clip choices than other recent Cook docs as well.

The negative side of the doc seems more glaring, but yes, quite an impressive use of the archives on this 'un.

Yep. Full marks for the "Weekenders" home movie footage and digging out the DEF II Newman & Baddiel tour footage clips.

Still not sure about the Wembley Arena gig being the biggest comedy gig ever at that point in time - surely Python or Steve Martin in the US was bigger?

[Emergency Lalla Ward Ten]

Where did the Weekenders clip come from, though? It must have been from a past documentary, but I can't think what.

[Lfbarfe]

The negative side of the doc seems more glaring, but yes, quite an impressive use of the archives on this 'un.

Robert Heading was one of the archive researchers, and he really does know his stuff.

[Ray Le Otter]

If that Weekenders footage was so rare, they should have shown more than three seconds from it.

And it seemed to be the same Cook and Moore clips they always show too - tap tap tap, are you enjoying that sandwich, etc. It's not as if there's a shortage of genuinely rare things they could unearth.

There was that footage from some variety show introduced by Jimmy Tarbuck. I'd not seen that before. Pity they didn't show more of it.

[Emergency Lalla Ward Ten]

Anyone see the 'Radio Stars' one just now? Like the first show, it  had an unmanageably large/vague brief - it was sort of about comedy, sort of about DJs, sort of about the way presenters moved from radio to TV, sort of about...anything miscellaneous that they could get the rights to. Plus we heard all the well-worn anecdotes about Simon Dee, Smashie and Nicey, Chris Evans etc that have been covered ad nauseam by countless superior docs.

The comedy section was especially bad - a skip through the 20s-60s, then an 'Isn't the BBC fantastic?' montage of Patridge/LoG/Little Britain/Dead Ringers. No mention at all of R1 pioneering comedy in the 80s, which would have been a fascinating (and original) topic for examination. But no, we had ten minutes of people saying variations on 'The thing is, the pictures are better on radio' and not much more.

I really hate the idea of this pisspoor series being ossified as a 'final word' on the subject, Beatles Anthology style.

Steve Punt was captioned 'Comedian and radio historian' - is he witing a book then? Or did they just think 'Well, he knows the names of the Goons so we can just use him in lieu of links'?

[The Mumbler]

Errors galore as well.  Amongst them:  The Beat Room on BBC2 preceded Top Of The Pops (which actually started three months before the new channel).  Matthew Bannister was never Controller of Capital Radio, although he did work in News & Current Affairs at the station (and the years were wrong too).  The supposed connection between Simon Dee and Chris Evans (both were egomaniacs and both saw a major fall in grace) was ridiculous and far-fetched.  The suggestion that Tarrant went from Tiswas to Capital (and the chronology was absolutely all over the shop at this point).  The attempt to contrive the BBC1 globe announcing "no more Late Late Breakfast Show ever" was a bit fucked as they plumped for the late 70s model (somewhat out of date by 1986).  

Oh, and no-one on this programme knows how to spell "Johnnie Walker".  Perfectly understandable - the man's only been in broadcasting since the 1960s.

And yes, radio comedy was treated like shite.  As usual.  Although the peculiar decision to schedule the 1999 three-part sitcom history Laughter In The House immediately afterwards - not a great series by any means, but at least the talking heads were allowed to finish a sentence occasionally - did mean that no-one was bigging up The Office.  A microscopic triumph.

[The Mumbler]

Incidentally, this series is made by Shine, Elisabeth Murdoch's company. Executive producer Steven D. Wright used to work on The Word (which can be the only explanation for Terry Christian being used as a talking head), and he currently writes an "if you hate reality TV, you're really old"-type column for Broadcast.  Indeed, he's an industry version of Wollaston.  A cunt in any language.

[Munday's Chylde]

Awww Mike Smith! "If I had your phone number I'd have rung you up and told you." Bless his heart - come on Noel give him a bell and make friends again you heartless swine.