Satire Ho!

[Notlob]

No, I do not mean women of loose morals making satires about John Prescott's weight. I mean Satire, the real deal. Anyone get the feeling that most satirical programmes shown nowadays do not have the same edge as they used to? More specifically, I want to discuss the idea that the targets they attack are all out of date, it's a question of timing.

F'rinstance - The Thick of It, is a fantastic show, and I particularly love Peter Capaldi's turn as Malcolm Tucker, the over-bearing, manipulative 'Director of Communications'. The pure Scots anger, the wheeling and dealing, the fast-as-lightning spin doctoring really inject alot of energy into the role. He is quite clearly a take on our own beloved Alistair Campbell. The trouble is, Alistair Campbell retired in 2003, whereas TTOI aired in 2005. As exciting as the role is, I can't but help wish it was released in 2001 or 2002, or during the 'Dodgy Dossier' inquiry, it would have given is such an extra bite with Campbell still in office, don't you think? So much more exciting to think that he could be sitting there, watching his actions and department being satirised - for me it has that element of Carpe Campbell.

That's a my main example, but I can think of scores of others off the top of my head: Time Trumpet going on about the supposed animosity between Blair and Brown - that's old news, and not funny anymore. Now I hear that CM is making a programme (possibly) about suicide bombers - how much more incisive that would have been a year ago. Or Nathan Barley satirising a culture three years past.

When I think of up -to-the-minute comment, I think of Peter Cook writing 'Entirely a Matter for You' feverishly before the show, or how absolutely savage OTH, TDT, and, to an even greater extent, BE were.

Do you think I'm wrong? Am I blind to the well-written, vitriolic, funny, and topical satire shows that are produced? Would sincerely like to hope so, in a way, so any education is appreciated.

[Emergency Lalla Ward Ten]

See also 'edgy' 9/11 material. If you did it within a few weeks of 9/11, then fair enough. Five years later? Pah...

See also: people who think 'Diana' jokes are still risque.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

I've offered this as a possibility before, but perhaps the time between having an idea, proposing an idea, filming an idea and screening an idea seems too long for the idea to ever be fresh.

Brass Eye was good not because all 6 subjects were in the media spotlight at the same time, but because they were the correctly chosen subjects for a satire of tabloid journalism. It remains timeless because the issues he chose have never disappearred from the papers. It's always going to be superior to the likes of Time Trumpet because it is so far reaching and it's always going to be credit to Morris that he did such a comprehensive job of destroying everything.

TDT does a comprehensive job of satirising newcasting. Compare that to todays effort Broken News that didn't have enough satirical ideas and ended up repeating them with slightly different words episode after episode. Visually it did a reasonable job, but there's a huge gaping hole where the comedy should be. That shows its not just about timing- the writing is just disgraceful and Morris could probably sue them if he could stomach the embarrassment of saying his work resembled theirs.

Up-to-the-minute 'satire' on the radio never quite does the job either. They have a template that they just fit around events. Nothings fresh, or delivered with the sense that anyone involved really gives a toss.

I share your opinions on The Thick Of It- I really wished it'd have gone straight on BBC2 because it is satirical and even more time had passed between the era they were satirising (2003; Hutton, Campbell, Greg Dyke) and the time it was broadcast.

I do like Bremner, Bird & Fortune though. I'd never say it was excellent but it makes me laugh and it's usually well prepared.

[Notlob]

I do have a fondness for the Bird and Fortune duologues where one of the other pretends to be a minister of some sort being interviewed, they are just fantastic.

Good point about Brass Eye though, never thought about it that way - possibly because it is so savage, and sort of metaphorically marches up and smacks me in the face I never really noticed! But you're right, essentially what was used was topical, but timelessly so, which is just a very clever thing to do.

[Marvin]

Which is one of the reasons why the special is weaker, the target was a lot more specific and topic than the vague eternally-relevent topics of 'Drugs', 'Animals', 'Crime' etc

[samadriel]

Interesting; I find the special a bit more satisfying than the others, probably because all that hysteria was honed on one very specific topic which tabloids are always guaranteed to scream about, safe in the knowledge that no-one, y'know, likes paedophiles.  But I can see how one might find it wearying or limited, I suppose.

Still...  WELCOME... TO PAEDOGEDDON!

[benthalo]

He is quite clearly a take on our own beloved Alistair Campbell. The trouble is, Alistair Campbell retired in 2003, whereas TTOI aired in 2005. As exciting as the role is, I can't but help wish it was released in 2001 or 2002, or during the 'Dodgy Dossier' inquiry, it would have given is such an extra bite with Campbell still in office, don't you think?

Armando was doing the Campbell diaries for the Telegraph throughout his tenure, so there wasn't an absolute absence but it was fairly gentle stuff. Alistair Campbell had a triumphant pop at him just before The Thick Of It's launch, so Iannucci must have hit some sort of nerve.

To be fair to Bremner, Bird & Fortune, they'd been doing some quite straight sketches about Blair and Campbell, all shot in an almost hidden camera way behind the scenes, showing Our Leader to be weak and vulnerable in the presence of this bully who dictates everything he does. They were doing that long before Iraq and, whatever you make of BBF, the dodgy dossier scandal gave them a new lease of life, a peak-time slot and - apparently - a completely new audience of young people who welcomed writers such as them cutting through the obfuscation of modern politics and translating it all into coherent comic routines.  It rarely makes me laugh, but I'm glad they're there.