"The Mary Whitehouse Experience" experience

[Village Branson]

Those who frequent UK Nova will have noticed the two TV series of TMWE have recently gone up, and I've been enjoying watching them again after 12/13 years, and being pleasantly surprised at how much I remembered.

The second series tends to encapsulate what's been going wrong with a few comedy shows of late, as they keep bringing back the same characters who were funny in one sketch, and surprising to see the re-appearance of the next couple of times, but by the end of the series you know they're going to appear, and so the fun's just gone out of seeing them.

Interesting to see Rob Newman do an impression of Jonathan Ross that's exactly the same as the Bo Selecta one, only it's from 1991. (okay, it's changed from "flibbidy flobbody" to "wibbly wobbly").


Anyway, just one of those "haven't seen this for ages what do other people think" posts.
Oh, and they don't mention M Khan as much as I thought they did, and History Today only pops up three times.

[Jemble Fred]

'Twill always be great, to my mind, and even though (presumably thanks to Punt & Dennis' subsequent career) people seem to think it's primarily topical, I don't really think ti will ever date, in a Frost Report/11OCS way.

And if I am moved to do a Ross impression, it's still 'A-flub-flub-flubbly, back arfter this bweak' every time – Newman's is the best impersonation there's been.Same goes for Top Cat/Officer Dibble.

So... where's the 3 CD BBC Audio release, the two-disc DVD and the 15th anniversary reunion?

[petercussing]

My friend made a rotating petrol station style sign that said "That's you" on one side and "That is" on the other. It was rubbish, but he got a C somehow. I failed to hand in anything, as was my attitude to CDT.

I used to love this, but i'm a-feared that it would date, so i'm reasured that you all say it hasn't.

I'd like to see what the Baddiel and Newman program is like now, cos i remember Punt and Dennis being like some unfunny deadwood attached to their necks, and that this showed up hugely when the two duos did separate programs.

I estimate roughly that The Mary Whitehouse Experience and VIc Reaves Big NIght Out probably provided me with half of my early teenage vocabulary.

[The Mumbler]

'Twill always be great, to my mind, and even though (presumably thanks to Punt & Dennis' subsequent career) people seem to think it's primarily topical, I don't really think ti will ever date, in a Frost Report/11OCS way.

And if I am moved to do a Ross impression, it's still 'A-flub-flub-flubbly, back arfter this bweak' every time – Newman's is the best impersonation there's been.Same goes for Top Cat/Officer Dibble.

So... where's the 3 CD BBC Audio release, the two-disc DVD and the 15th anniversary reunion?

11OCS was dated before it was even piloted...

We may have to wait for the demise of Newman and Avalon before the telly version of MWE ever makes it to commercial release.  Within weeks of the final show, Newman was telling Melody Maker that the show's very title was "the worst possible", and telling Danny Baker on Radio 5 "we shan't be working with those two again".  As someone who'd always liked Punt & Dennis's extremely skilful (and often very funny) work as a double act - and who had enjoyed MWE in general (I came to the excellent radio series relatiively recently), this upset me slightly.  

The cracks had shown in the (otherwise extremely funny) tie-in book, The Mary Whitehouse Experience Encyclopedia (published in November 1991, a few months before the second TV series).  For some stupid reason, Baddiel and Newman (or their management, perhaps?) felt they should author each and every one of their individual entries.  Punt & Dennis didn't share the same sense of self-importance.

Neither Newman & Baddiel In Pieces or The Imaginatively Titled Punt & Dennis Show  was terribly special for me, but the latter was preferable to the former if only because it wasn't so bleeding pompous.

[Village Branson]

The references in the show to popular culture seem to hit the targets that we all remember "Take two bottles into the shower?", "It's a bit like loading a photocopier, but the paper's more expensive!" and Jonathan Ross. Only one that passes me by is Rob Newman's recurring goth like singer, but I have the feeling that's just me.


Where the show has dated is the almost unbearably smug attitude they all had in the first series. Take a second to imagine Baddiel saying "Is it just me...." what seems like ALL the time.

The second series seemed more like two double acts, and Punt and Dennis did come off worse, doing routines really taking down ostriches a peg doesn't compare to Baddiel and Newman talking about relationships. That said, the latter could have done better than cover the same "ra-ay" character week after week. Even milky milky didn't turn up that often.

All the things that were bad about TMWE, namely the attitude sometimes and the recurring characters seemed to be picked up and removed by Lee & Herring.

And as for the theme tune's constant blasting between segments.....argh!

[Z/Sb]

That's a freaky coincidence. I've been watching the MWE and Baddiel & Newman's concerts a lot lately. In fact the "Live at the Shaftesbury Theatre" is on as I noticed the thread and am typing this...

I wouldn't say any of the shows/material are particularly outdated in terms of topicality but a lot of stuff doesn't seem to be as funny as I originally found it at the time. I actually noticed this fact back in 1999 when I tried watching some of the stuff with my mate who was also a big Neman/Baddiel fan and he just didn't find it funny anymore although he's well into the Baddiel/Skinner fantasy football stuff (which I'm not that keen on).

I still find the Cure singing Benny Hill's "Ernie" hilarious - especially the way Baddiel says "Ernie"... and Ray's inflicted sarcasm "Oh no, what a personal disaster".

Watching it all again, I also find the Newman/Baddiel stuff particularly egotistical and self-important nowadays. Especially the In Pieces series. Well, the Newman stuff especially although he's still the funniest, I reckon. And I'm still finding Baddiel's "Blind Lemon Pie" joke funny. Weirdly, I no longer find Hugh Dennis that funny or watchable at all but find Steve Punt more funnier than I ever did originally.

Someone's selling a dvd of the series and radio shows on ebay, I noticed. And the complete KYTV.

[GeeTee]

I had the unfortunate experience of downloading and watching the pilot of this a couple of weeks ago...thought it might re-kindle a few studenty memories ...

Now I enjoy a broad range of comedy and nostalgia based TV, and will put up with a lot of things in the name of entertainment /rose tinited memory  etc...

..but I did something  halfway though watching it that  I've NEVER done before....stopped it....and cancelled the rest of the series I had downloading at the time....why?

Right from the start it made me cringe with embarresment that it ever got past the pilot, It opens with David B making a very cheap anti-german gag (and I though jewish comdians were a little sharper than that...or it just the American ones?) followed by misrable, poor observational comedy, piss poor impressions all delivered in that smug "I've got a BBC pilot" style, the whole thing has dated horriblily....
In the same week I watched this I 'd listened on BBC7  to a live stand up show Ben Elton did in the late 80's....sure it had dated, all those "oh arnt we all fartys" lines made me cringe, but  it was nothing in comparison.....

The file is now deleted and I aint going there again......all those awful factory made student lines..."milky milky" indeed.....wonder why we never see Punt & Dennis anymore???

I totally agree with the previous comments Re:Lee & Herring, they took the corpse of a format and made it far more clever, removed the smug factor....and as the years passed, so did the need for late 90's loud, shouty, BIG TEXT sketch bumpers....but I could never work out why I never tired of hearing the same jokes week in week out...right up to TMWRNJ days....now I know its the personalitys not the format....

[Z/Sb]

... followed by misrable, poor observational comedy, piss poor impressions all delivered in that smug "I've got a BBC pilot" style, the whole thing has dated horriblily....

I'm afraid I have to agree with that to a certain extent - and it isn't just the pilot where that feeling is mutual.

And Rob Newman, at some points is obviously trying to do stand-up the way the Americans do it and it's a bit embarassing as well - leave it to the Americans.

[Jemble Fred]

wonder why we never see Punt & Dennis anymore???.

Isn't that a rather stupid thing to say about one of the hardest working double acts in the country? Speaking as a Lee & Herring fan, they weren't one single iota less smug than anyone involved with TMWE, in fact Stewart Lee has always been one of the smuggest people in comedy. Of course he is – he's been sitting in curmudgeonly judgement on pretty much everyone in the world bar himself for over a decade. But there's nothing wrong with that, in fact it's part of his appeal.

Nowadays, Baddiel is part of the furniture on ITV, and is always entertaining enough when he's on. Punt & Dennis are worth a listen on Radio 2, but I'd never go out of my way to catch their show. And Rob Newman's still a hero, despite his dull books. Was blown away by 'Caliban to Taliban', and had a really nice chat with him after the show, where he got very excited about my ideas for a comedy mag and gave me lots of contacts should I have any luck with it.

[GeeTee]

So glad I didnt waste my bandwidth with the rest of the series....as I have with other shows in a "maybe it got better" kinda way.....some things are best left to memory....or the trashbin

[GeeTee]

Stewart Lee smug???.....well as you said, its part of his appeal, but it never seemed quite as bitter or slimey as David B's version of it....

As for Punt & Dennis....well I did say when was the last time you saw them....I'm sure the Radio2 shows are OK (has any actually heard them)....but I aint seen any TV appearences for many years.....shame I cant say the same about Fantasy Football....

[Emergency Lalla Ward Ten]

I never know what people mean when they use the word 'smug'. I mean, I know what the word means, but I don't get it with respect to comedy. Can't smugness in comedy be a reason why something works?

I saw the film of Chicago the other day. That's quite smug. In the sense that everyone in it is clearly thinking 'We're the fucking bee's knees as far as musicals go, look at us being all arch and sassy and brilliant'. But I can't dislike it.

The MWE TV pilot is pretty weak apart from the Dungeons and Dragons bit which really lifts the thing. I thought it was a bit stale and irritating on TV generally though - I didn't like the way the audience didn't really have a role/personality, which they unquestionably did in the radio version. All those huge, cold laughter washes.

[Bert Thung]

Pet Theory -  Did MWE and Newman & Baddiel In Pieces open the pandora's box of bad comedy movements for the following ten years?

Cool - Going on about indie bands

Recurring characters, that aren't characters, just a single joke - Milky Milky

Dark -The Scream in the starting titles. Also I seem to  remember when it was starting, Newman was interviewed in RT saying something along the lines of "we really admire people like Milligan, who suffer for their art, whereas we just make jokes about underpants."  Cue, him  getting all depressed and...

Mentioning Bill Hicks all the time - I wish he'd do underpants jokes again.
Stick to your strengths.

[rupert pupkin]

So glad I didnt waste my bandwidth with the rest of the series....as I have with other shows in a "maybe it got better" kinda way.....some things are best left to memory....or the trashbin

I downloaded Series 2 Episode 6 of Mary Whitehouse the other day and thought it was as limp as six-month old lettuce. In fact, it went straight into the trashbin after ten minutes.

David Baddiel hasn't changed a bit - he was the most punchable man in comedy then and still is.

[Godzilla Bankrolls]

Punt and Dennis are touring next month, and I shall endeavour to see them. Doesn't Hugh Dennis's face embody comedy?

The first date is in Abergavenny!

[slim]

Doesn't Hugh Dennis's face embody comedy?

I was thinking just last Friday how I would like to see him, and some other so called "washed up" comedians on QI, or something like it. I like the idea of a comedy quiz show format about comedy, with long-standing comedians on it.  No fads or popular-with-the-public people, more the hard working type who've been the scaffolding around mainstream comedy.

My word I articulated that badly.

[Emergency Lalla Ward Ten]

It opens with David B making a very cheap anti-german gag.

Baddiel's gag is, from memory:

They [the Germans] all seem to think they're part of an innately superior nation, despite the fact that they're all really ugly and the only decent band they've ever produced is Boney M. Who themselves were hardly a product of Arian genetic engineering.

Not the funniest thing in the world, but I quite like the juxtaposition of deliberate ignorance with a highbrow joke about Nazis.

Actually, the idea of calling the Germans stupid because they couldn't even create an Arian superrace is funny in itself, but using Boney M as an example of why they failed is brilliant.

It did seem fresh in 1990 anyway, when most scriptwriters would have just done a beach towels gag.

[bill hicks]

Hugh Dennis is one of the (three*) celebs who regularly come into the cinema where I work. His first visit caused much fluttering of excitement among everyone over 21 on staff, with all the students asking who he was and exclaiming ignorance about MWE (bloody kids).

* - The other two are Jack Dee, who we pretend not to recognise because it makes him happy and we pity his complete loss of relevance, and Dave Benson Philips who always sits at the back of the last show, stays til the end of the credits and is really friendly. He really liked Dodgeball, but didn't like The Village.

[alan strang]

Actually, the idea of calling the Germans stupid because they couldn't even create an Arian superrace is funny in itself, but using Boney M as an example of why they failed is brilliant.

"Aah! Cafe Hag! Schmellz  gut!"

[Z/Sb]

Just wanted to say that, to this day, I'm still a massive fan of Rob Newman - even more so than those MWE days. He's a guy with a very interesting past/life, what with going from comedy megastar to reclusive writer and his constant non-dependance and non-interest in regards to being on the tv. And I really admire his political/humanitarian views. And the fact that he has fuck all to do with that whole "Three Lions"/Fantasy Football garbage makes me respect him even more. Yes, I still love him.

[Emergency Lalla Ward Ten]

Bump.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/imdm3x

Here's the record used as the MWE theme tune - 'Jack to the Sound of the Underground' by Hithouse, which reached #14 in November 1988. This is both the A-side and its accompanying 'Gard du Nord Mix' B-side. (The little dialogue snippets were my own 16 year old handiwork and I've left them in. Yes, edited on a cassette they were. Take that, the Cool Edit Pro "generation".)

At the end, I've stuck a copy of the trailer for the second TV series, where a few vox pops gave their opinions on the show. This was recorded using the time-honoured 'press play and record and tell your family to shut up' technique.

[Garam]

I watched all of these for the first time recently. It's the most early 90s programme ever made. It also feels like it's the sort of show Rick would make if he had the chance.


I did enjoy it though. Though he was unbelievably smug (obvious opinion to have I know, but he really was) , I have a new level of respect for Baddiel. I watched Brass Eye for the first time in ages afterwards and I noticed Hugh Dennis in one episode! Anyone know what he was doing there?


edit: And I've just noticed Newman and Baddiel, in pieces' is up on that site. What a piece of luck.

[benthalo]

I've been transferring series one this week and it's interesting to see again after a long break away from watching them furiously as I used to when I was thirteen. It's probably the last gasp of minimal, undressed sets for sketch show comedy, but the standard of writing is so high with endless examples of a perfectly judged choice of phrasing. "...but adamantly refuse to lend out their copy of the complete Shakespeare."

Shows 3 of series one is oddly thin, though. It had never really hit me before.

[The Mumbler]

Shows 3 of series one is oddly thin, though. It had never really hit me before.

Ah - broadcast on 17 January 1991, the day after the Gulf War started.  Did they, I wonder, write/even perform lots of relevant material only to have the BBC order them to cut it all?   When were the recording dates? - three days before transmission, I think.

[The Mumbler]

[quote="Garam" ] I watched Brass Eye for the first time in ages afterwards and I noticed Hugh Dennis in one episode! Anyone know what he was doing there?
[/quote]

Possibly a Caroline Leddy connection.  She co-produced the second Punt & Dennis series for BBC1.

[Cack Hen]

I've just acquired both series from the other place. I haven't had a chance to get through them all yet but I don't like what I've seen so far, I just dislike the whole feel of the show. Partly down to the fact I find Hugh Dennis to be annoyingly smug, he just doesn't pull it off.

I much prefer Fist of Fun. I don't know how comparable those two really are, since FoF wasn't topical. Well, not really.

[benthalo]

Ah - broadcast on 17 January 1991, the day after the Gulf War started.  Did they, I wonder, write/even perform lots of relevant material only to have the BBC order them to cut it all?   When were the recording dates? - three days before transmission, I think.

Given that they were recycling a lot of series four radio material, I wouldn't put it down to that. I'm sure I read at the time that they were on a general ban from going into depth about the war anyway, along with humming Bohemian Rhapsody under their breath and so forth. They only touch on the conflict a couple of times in the whole series I think, and one of those is in The Hard Experience in show 2: Hugh Dennis explaining strategy ("cack their pants"), and in a later show we've got the Saddam lookalikes item ("you've ripped off my whole bloody image"). Both fairly gentle.

[The Mumbler]

I actually wondered if the radio series, had it still been running, would have played with the idea of being censored in that way and the implications surrounding it.  That's kind of what held back the TV version a bit - the looseness of the radio incarnation (albeit tightly edited) was missing.

I thought of show three because that would have been the one which could have had material ready only to find that it wasn't allowed to be broadcast.  (This was, of course, a period so sensitive within the BBC that Lulu's Boom Bang-A-Bang was banned by Radio 1 (!), and Dad's Army repeats were removed from the schedule.)  Subsequent episodes of that series would have then prepared different material.  But, yes, there was a stack of material from the final radio series ready to go.

[Emergency Lalla Ward Ten]

I recall Newman grumbling in some interview that they weren't allowed to do Gulf jokes during the series, mentioning that The Don't Mention The War Experience (show 6) was a collection of material 'which would have been really funny four weeks earlier'.

I don't think show 3 is thin - it's the one with the 'Other one from Soft Cell...' ending isn't it? If anything, I'd say show 6 is the weakest one - full of Experiences (Film, Swearing) that have obviously been hacked down a fair bit.

Wasn't 'You ripped off my whole bloody image' from the pilot?

[Emergency Lalla Ward Ten]

Though he was unbelievably smug (obvious opinion to have I know, but he really was

What's a good example of him being smug? I've never thought he, or the show generally, was smug at all.