Dodgy Landlord / Council Inspection / Presumable Eviction?

[Small Man Big Horse]

The story so far: Back in 2019 when I split up with my partner I had less than a month to find somewhere new, and after seeing some reasonably awful places I found a room in a shared house which seemed really nice, and the only downside was that because they'd recently built an extension, instead of my bedroom window opening in to the garden it instead opens in to the kitchen.

When I've told this story before there's been a general response of "What the fuck? Why on earth did you move there? That's not legal you fucking idiot!", and understandably too. I didn't know about the legality when I moved in but I have for a couple of years now, and I've had sporadic attempts at looking for other places only to find that my "Can I come and view the property when I finish work at 7pm" request has been met with "You can phone me at that time, but chances are it'll be rented out by then". And so it turned out to be.

But today this letter arrived:



I work from home so will be there when they come round, and this could be the kick up the arse I need to move out and find somewhere else, especially given how hot that room gets in the summer with no ventilation.

I was wondering though, does anyone know if I'll have any rights as to when I will have to move? My landlord never gave me a contract (though for the first six months I regularly asked, only for them to repeatedly lie and say their lawyer had been instructed to send me one). They're also fairly schizophrenic in that they've always been really nice to me, and if there's been a problem (dead washing machine, smoke alarm going off) they've sorted it out really quickly, but they're also notoriously cunty, they evicted people for not paying rent during the pandemic when it was illegal to do so, and in one case they turned up on one Friday night and demanded a tenant leave there and then.

So yeah, I know I'm a fucking idiot for staying so long. But if anyone could offer any advice as to what might happen it'd be greatly appreciated.

[baptist]

This is a letter informing you that the landlord appears to have been renting the property without holding a Selective Licence (see here: https://www.londonpropertylicensing.co.uk/waltham-forest/), even though the property is not a house of multiple occupancy (HMO).

You are not required to move out, and I suspect the council wants to see who is in the property in order to prosecute the landlord. You could be entitled to some compensation too. Even if your landlord is found to be in breach, until you have been served with a section 21 notice you will not be required to leave.

My advice would be to go and speak to Shelter or a similar organisation on the compensation issue, as if he is a cunt and you are going to move on anyway, you may was well do so with a bit of folding in your pocket.

[madhair60]

if you get lots and lots of compo can i have ten thousand pounds? there is a very good reason

[Small Man Big Horse]

This is a letter informing you that the landlord appears to have been renting the property without holding a Selective Licence (see here: https://www.londonpropertylicensing.co.uk/waltham-forest/), even though the property is not a house of multiple occupancy (HMO).

You are not required to move out, and I suspect the council wants to see who is in the property in order to prosecute the landlord. You could be entitled to some compensation too. Even if your landlord is found to be in breach, until you have been served with a section 21 notice you will not be required to leave.

My advice would be to go and speak to Shelter or a similar organisation on the compensation issue, as if he is a cunt and you are going to move on anyway, you may was well do so with a bit of folding in your pocket.

Thank you so much for all of the above, and it's a relief that if I do have to move I'll have time to organise finding somewhere hopefully much more suitable. I imagine the landlord is in panic mode now too, according to one of the other tenants whose been here for about ten years they have about twenty properties in total (he used to live in one before asking if they had any larger rooms to rent) and I can imagine that they might not have licenses for many of them. The compensation aspect would be handy too, though I could imagine they'd refuse to pay out for as long as they possibly could manage to, but again thank you for the advice and I'll get in touch with Shelter asap.

[Glebe]

Aw shite how it all works out okay SMBH mate.

[Sebastian Cobb]

It seems the process must be different up here but my landlord's licence lapsed and the first I knew of it was I was being sent a 'rent penalty notice' making rent collection illegal (including me paying it). The legislation this is tacked on to is antisocial behaviour and something it's also used for if a landlord fails to comply, the letter doesn't make it clear why it's served so when I got one I shat it thinking I'd been upsetting my neighbours and warnings had got lost in the post, etc.

[Small Man Big Horse]

Aw shite how it all works out okay SMBH mate.

Thank you, it's obviously not a great situation but I really do need to find somewhere which doesn't get insanely hot every summer, so it might not be a bad thing in the end.

It seems the process must be different up here but my landlord's licence lapsed and the first I knew of it was I was being sent a 'rent penalty notice' making rent collection illegal (including me paying it). The legislation this is tacked on to is antisocial behaviour and something it's also used for if a landlord fails to comply, the letter doesn't make it clear why it's served so when I got one I shat it thinking I'd been upsetting my neighbours and warnings had got lost in the post, etc.

I can imagine it being a shock, yeah, but out of interest what happened in the end? Did you not have to pay rent for a specific time, or did you need to move?

[Icehaven]

If you've never had a contract but you've been there years without being asked to leave don't you technically have squatter's rights? (If that's still a thing)

[Sebastian Cobb]

Thank you, it's obviously not a great situation but I really do need to find somewhere which doesn't get insanely hot every summer, so it might not be a bad thing in the end.

I can imagine it being a shock, yeah, but out of interest what happened in the end? Did you not have to pay rent for a specific time, or did you need to move?

Neither! My letting agent gave my landlord a kick up the arse and got them to re-register.

[baptist]

SMBH you should be entitled to up to 12 months' rent (compensation) in a rent repayment order. Speak to Shelter about it, but you could also ask the council representative if the local authority will be making an application for one on your (and any other affected tenants) behalf. That would take the pressure off you and potentially also let you get away without paying any court fees or legal costs (if you wanted representation).

Good luck with it all.

[Gurke and Hare]

As well as the compensation for this, did you pay a deposit on the place and if so did the landlord place it in a protection scheme and give you the documentation for the scheme? If he didn't, you may also be entitled to further compensation. And if he doesn't pay it you may be entitled to be on The Sheriffs Are Coming.

I've also got a feeling that not having a licence when they should might mean you're safe from the threat of a Section 21 letter, but I'm not sure of the exact circumstance that applies to.

[Jittlebags]

Do you put a fishing road out of your window when they're cooking and winch back a huge steak Tom & Jerry style?

[Small Man Big Horse]

If you've never had a contract but you've been there years without being asked to leave don't you technically have squatter's rights? (If that's still a thing)

I always thought that was the case but it seems it's far more complicated: https://www.complete-ltd.com/landlord-library-squatters-rights/#:~:text=The%20Squatters%20rights%20criteria%20is,owner's%20permission%20to%20do%20so. - But as the landlord gave me permission to live here it doesn't apply to me.

Neither! My letting agent gave my landlord a kick up the arse and got them to re-register.

Ah, right, that's a shame you didn't at least get one month out of them.

SMBH you should be entitled to up to 12 months' rent (compensation) in a rent repayment order. Speak to Shelter about it, but you could also ask the council representative if the local authority will be making an application for one on your (and any other affected tenants) behalf. That would take the pressure off you and potentially also let you get away without paying any court fees or legal costs (if you wanted representation).

Good luck with it all.

I've been reading up about that and it would be amazing if it were to happen, but I can imagine that the landlord would do absolutely everything and anything to get out of it, and I don't know if it would end up with an enforced payment or in a small claims court. But I'll definitely look in to it, and thank you for the response.

As well as the compensation for this, did you pay a deposit on the place and if so did the landlord place it in a protection scheme and give you the documentation for the scheme? If he didn't, you may also be entitled to further compensation. And if he doesn't pay it you may be entitled to be on The Sheriffs Are Coming.

I've also got a feeling that not having a licence when they should might mean you're safe from the threat of a Section 21 letter, but I'm not sure of the exact circumstance that applies to.

I wasn't sure but I just checked my bank statement online and I did pay a small deposit of £140, yet I definitely didn't receive any documentation as they've always promised but then never delivered on that front. But thank you as well for all of the above, right now I'm going to be waiting to see what happens on the 8th, but also keeping an eye on right move in case something suitable comes up in the meantime.

Do you put a fishing road out of your window when they're cooking and winch back a huge steak Tom & Jerry style?

No, but with the remaining time I have left I feel I should definitely try it the once.

[Mrs Wogans lemon drizzle]

Sounds like your landlord is dodgy, he should be the one to worry about this not you.

So do you get any daylight then?  Can people using the kitchen see you in bed?

[Des Wigwam]

Can see a post from SMBH soon saying "Any more questions that aren't about the bedroom-window-kitchen set up?"

Good luck @Small Man Big Horse apart from the hassle of possibly moving doesn't sound like this is your problem.

[baptist]

You don't need a tenancy agreement in writing. You are still a tenant. Suatters are trespassers. You have what is know  as a periodic tenancy. You have exactly the same rights as a tenant with a written contract I.e. you cannot be forced to leave without a court making a possession order.

Rent repayment orders are sought at the First Tier Tribunal (a sort of special court for tenancies etc) and they are not soft on landlords.

[shoulders]

You have exactly the same rights as a tenant with a written contract I.e. you cannot be forced to leave without a court making a possession order.

It isn't quite that simple. If you are served Notice to Quit then you would need to respond to it if you objected to that, and the contents of that dispute would play a major role, including potential exposure to legal fees and court costs.

[Small Man Big Horse]

Sounds like your landlord is dodgy, he should be the one to worry about this not you.

So do you get any daylight then?  Can people using the kitchen see you in bed?

No real daylight, no, other than being able to see the kitchen door that leads in to the garden about fifteen foot from my window. And if I didn't have both blinds and curtains they could, though they'd have to walk up to the window and deliberately peer in given where the bed is placed.

Can see a post from SMBH soon saying "Any more questions that aren't about the bedroom-window-kitchen set up?"

Good luck @Small Man Big Horse apart from the hassle of possibly moving doesn't sound like this is your problem.

Ha, but I don't mind that much, it is a fucking weird predicament to be in, and I've only got myself to blame.

You don't need a tenancy agreement in writing. You are still a tenant. Suatters are trespassers. You have what is know  as a periodic tenancy. You have exactly the same rights as a tenant with a written contract I.e. you cannot be forced to leave without a court making a possession order.

Rent repayment orders are sought at the First Tier Tribunal (a sort of special court for tenancies etc) and they are not soft on landlords.

It isn't quite that simple. If you are served Notice to Quit then you would need to respond to it if you objected to that, and the contents of that dispute would play a major role, including potential exposure to legal fees and court costs.

I really do appreciate both responses, though I think the best thing for my mental health would be to get out of here as soon as I can rather than worrying about what might happen. While I've not witnessed it myself I've heard stories about awful the landlord has been in the past to others, and I don't fancy going through that if I can avoid it.

[bgmnts]

Praying you get to minimum-of-fuss rinse the cunt in rent payments - if that's possible as some claim.

[baptist]

It isn't quite that simple. If you are served Notice to Quit then you would need to respond to it if you objected to that, and the contents of that dispute would play a major role, including potential exposure to legal fees and court costs.

Sorry mate but that us just incorrect. I deal with this stuff 5 days a week.

[shoulders]

Sorry mate but that us just incorrect. I deal with this stuff 5 days a week.

I assume you posted to help SMBH, why don't you spell it out if it is incorrect?

We can do appeal to authority, and appeal to first hand, second hand, third hand experience; I can do that. It might help to say why I am wrong. The only thing I can think of would be a change in law in the last 5 years I'm unaware of.

[baptist]

An assured shirthold tenancy can only be ended by 2 types of notice. Section 8 or section 21. Notices to quit are of no effect.

Once a s.9 or s.21 has been served, even if the leave date has passed, a landlord cannot evict you without obtaining a court order entitling him to do so. To do the raise would be an unlawful eviction.

[touchingcloth]

Is To the Tenants your full name or surname?

[Small Man Big Horse]

Is To the Tenants your full name or surname?

Let's go with the latter.

[MojoJojo]

I wasn't sure but I just checked my bank statement online and I did pay a small deposit of £140, yet I definitely didn't receive any documentation as they've always promised but then never delivered on that front.

This probably doesn't apply to you but this seems like a good place to bring it up.
The tenancy deposit scheme has been good for renters, so obviously some landlords hate the fact they can't get outgoing tenants to replace the carpets every year. The work around some have found is that instead of paying a big deposit up front, the tenant pays a relatively small annual fee, that works as insurance for any damage you may cause. In principal this isn't a bad thing, and could actually be good for renters who struggle to get a deposit together BUT it bypasses all the inspectors and safe guards the TDS scheme introduced and the insurance companies will aggressively chase leaving tenants to buy new carpets etc... like in the bad old days.

I don't think this is relevant to you SMBH, but thought worthy to bring up. Shame I can't remember what the name of the the insurance schemes is.

[Better Midlands]

Do you put a fishing road out of your window when they're cooking and winch back a huge steak Tom & Jerry style?

[Dex Sawash]

arsefinger absolutely everything, even if you're staying

[Small Man Big Horse]

Haha, that's awesome, and now saved to my laptop!

arsefinger absolutely everything, even if you're staying

Gosh, it's been such a long time since the last arsefinger, but maybe it is time to get the old boy out again.

[Small Man Big Horse]

Just thought I'd update this as I got a call from the landlord today, claiming that they're refinancing the house and someone from the bank will be coming over to inspect the house soon. She then asked me if I wouldn't mind going out for a half hour walk when it happened, but I told her that I was working from home and that wasn't possible.

This was followed by assurances that the rent would not be going up for a long time, and if I wanted any new furniture, just say the word and it would be there, but if anyone does knock on the door please don't answer it. Turns out everyone else has now received a similar call, except that I was the only one asked not to be present in the house during the inspection.

[Underturd]

It's all a complex ruse, they're planning a surprise party for you.