Labour Party discussion: "Shouting Starmer Starmer Starmer mega mega white man!"

[Johnny Yesno]

I know we all knew the knee-taking was an empty gesture, but I thought he'd at least stay weaselly and vague about it instead of going on TV straight-up like "Oh, that meant absolutely less than nothing. I love the police, and indeed the whole Life-Ruining Industry. I've personally ruined thousands of lives, and I'm very proud of it. 🙂"

Not just the brazen cynicism of Faking a Knee that infuriates me, but the apparent bewildered contempt for anyone who doesn't share it. Tutting condescension for anyone who'd do sincerely do the exact thing he was pretending to do. Oh gosh no, of course I didn't mean it, I was kneeling to advance my career. What kind of idiot would have principles?

I'm afraid you've accidentally put yourself forward as candidate for Labour leader. Sorry! machotrouts for leader!

[Johnny Yesno]

The thing is, it's one of those things a good leader should be able to articulate to the public isn't it, and want to as well? To bring people together and try to foster consensus?  Say something about how in the age of social media slogans, people who think they're on different sides of the argument don't realise how much they've got in common. When BLM activists see the dehumanising treatment of black people by the police, they demand the police be defunded. And when many people hear the phrase "defund the police" they imagine all law and order being abandoned. But when we look at these problems as a society, and we consider police resources devoted to imprisoning people for having a bit of weed, employing tactics which alienate minority groups, dealing with a large amount of work relating to people experiencing problems with mental health, and sending people to a prison system which can leave initially minor criminals hardened; why don't we take the money we're wasting on those things, things which not only don't work but make the problem worse -  and divert it instead to the sorts of crime reduction plans we all know we need, which actually work - mental health services, services for young people, genuine rehabilitation opportunities, and building homes and neighbourhoods that people can feel proud of? Unburdened from having to work as part-time social workers which they were never trained as, police funding can be targeted where it's actually effective at catching real criminals. Say something about how if tough talk and governments taking a firm line stopped crime we'd have ended it years ago. The media are happy when we're at each others' throats, yet when we start talking and listening to each other, we'd see that behind the odd misunderstanding the british people are actually in overwhelming agreement on building a safer country for everyone.

I'm afraid you've accidentally put yourself forward as candidate for Labour leader. Sorry! honeychile for leader!

_{Better get moving, though, as machotrouts has a head start.}

[Sebastian Cobb]

Starmer will be gone this year....he's a cocoon long after the butterfly has flown.

I doubt this, but hope it's true.

[thugler]

This kind of appeal to hard-headed pragmatism might carry more weight if the last decade of UK politics hadn't seen Brown and Miliband failing miserably after running on centrist platforms designed to appease Tory moderates while Corbyn brought the party within 2,000 votes of government in 2017 with his magic grampa socialism even with the entire British media establishment and half of his own party arrayed against him.

Where have I suggested a centrist platform? I'm suggesting as much of the last manifesto as possible, but accepting that even if just the biggest things got done that would be hugely beneficial to the country on it's own. I've only suggested that being cynical and dishonest is basically essential against an opponent who will do it all day.

This 2000 votes thing is a bit misleading as well. Votes need to be in the right places to achieve this. The last election was decided by a fairly small sounding number of votes as well but noone would suggest that was close.

[pancreas]

machotrouts vs honeychile

THUNDERDOME

Two men enter.

One man leaves.

Weapons?

Anything is possible. It is up to chance.

[Paul Calf]

Why must the Labour leader be a bastion of honesty and fair play? the Tories aren't going to do any of that shit.

Because - and I'm not really surprised to have to say this - we're not the fucking Tories.

[Johnny Yesno]

This 2000 votes thing is a bit misleading as well. Votes need to be in the right places to achieve this. The last election was decided by a fairly small sounding number of votes as well but noone would suggest that was close.

You're getting worse. Sunk cost fallacy.

[Old Nehamkin]

https://mobile.twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1277635418746425352

Heartily agree with  @Keir_Starmer 's condemnation of the Black Lives Matter organisation.

well this has turned out well

[honeychile]

Getting way ahead of ourselves (i see Starmer staying for the duration unless something goes very badly wrong, and by very badly wrong i don't mean our definition of very badly wrong, i mean bacon sandwich kind of stuff), but someone a few pages back was concerned about if we did trigger a leadership contest, there being no obvious left candidate. Apart form machotrouts and me, i'm not really that concerned about that. With previous leadership elections, the Socialist Campaign Group has pretty much got together and agreed on candidates. We had McDonnell's abortive challenge against Brown (oh god, alternative histories...), Abbott in 2010, and in 2015 Corbyn is supposed to literally have said "i suppose it's my turn now". After the Labour landslide in 2001, the Campaign group only had 27 members. Now, with a PLP half the size, we have 36, which was enough to support two candidates in RLB and Lewis. And so that might give them a chance to really have a strategic think about who would be best to put out there, knowing each other better than we do. I'm absolutely including the new intake as potential candidates, because after only two and a half years we were pretty much all pining for Pidcock until that particular disaster. I don't want any skullduggery against Starmer of the kind we saw against Corbyn, but i do think that the Campaign group should already be thinking about laying groundwork for when the next challenge comes. 36 of the cunts, take out the ones who've already had a run and we should still be able to find someone.

[thugler]

Because - and I'm not really surprised to have to say this - we're not the fucking Tories.

Honesty and fair play is pretty apolitical though, if you're doing it in service of left wing policies I'm perfectly happy to see it. Again, they will use every trick in the book to lie and smear and mislead the public.

[thugler]

You're getting worse. Sunk cost fallacy.

You're getting repetitive. Either engage with what I've posted or fuck off.

[thugler]

https://mobile.twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1277635418746425352

well this has turned out well

Farage wouldn't say anything for cynical reasons would he

[Sebastian Cobb]

Honesty and fair play is pretty apolitical though, if you're doing it in service of left wing policies I'm perfectly happy to see it. Again, they will use every trick in the book to lie and smear and mislead the public.

Yeah, we know they'll do that, we're prepared for it even. What we didn't prepare for were people INSIDE OUR OWN PARTY to do it also.

One of those people is now loto btw.

[Buelligan]

Farage wouldn't say anything for cynical reasons would he

Unlike Starmer who definitely should, according to you.

[BlodwynPig]

You're getting repetitive. Either engage with what I've posted or fuck off.

Farage has just endorsed your political viewpoints, I see.

[thugler]

Farage has just endorsed your political viewpoints, I see.

He's just a troll.

[Buelligan]

_{Sir Keith won a vote}

[Johnny Yesno]

He's just a troll.

See, you're making more and more excuses as the situation worsens. If you would just admit your mistake instead of digging in harder, perhaps we could get somewhere less repetitious, as you claim to want.

[honeychile]

machotrouts vs honeychile

THUNDERDOME

Two men enter.

One man leaves.

Weapons?

Anything is possible. It is up to chance.

"I want to set out a vision for a future where i, honeychile, lead our party - lead our country - together towards a future we all have a stake in."

[fucking hell the floodlights are really bright in my eyes]

[check notes]

"For too long, our cutlery... our, our country, has been run by those putting the veal of the jews before they needs money. The veal of- the wealth of the few, needing money. The needs of the many. The veal, the wealth of the few before the needs of the many."

[bead of sweat trickles into eye. don't rub it. remember to look into the camera]

"Labour has always stood for..."

[where's the fucking camera?]

"... human rights both at home... "

[forget the camera, just read it]

"... and aboard, abroad, abroad, both at home and abroad..."

[fucking hell, machotrouts' eyes are very piercing. ignore them, just ignore them]

"and as leader i will ensnare this wheel... ensnare... ensure this, ensure that where..."

[audience start laughing. ignore it. just read... fucking sweat, can't read shit. just speak from the heart! speak to the nation!]

"as leader i will ensure that where... "

[where? where what? think of a thing to say]

"... "

[SAY A THING]

"Socialism means... socialism to me... the better, more humane, world that i envisage... i mean... zero tolerance, zero tolerance on crime. Tough on crime. The absolute toughest on crime, yes tough on the causes, but moreso on the crime. Education. For all, where applicable. A commitment to the defence of the realm, defence at all costs, but not afraid to attack. A commitment to the nuclear deterrent to deter other countries from having a nuclear deterrent. An end to terrorism, with unmarked graves for the relatives of all perpetrators. Racial profiling as little as possible but as much as necessary. The special relationship. An end to antisemitism. No more Palestine. Just take it out of the equation. Israel's right to defend itself like any other country real or imagined. Six years' compulsory military service for all asylum seekers to obtain leave to remain. Public whipping of cyclists caught running red lights. A brown new deal. A points-based justice system. Roads, roads, roads. The hand of history rubbing our stomachs. That's the Britain i want, the Britain i know that we can build, together, apart, united or divided, on a case-by-case basis and taking into account local needs. Machotrouts, i have always respected machotrouts. But populism will not win the day with the british public. We must meet Britain in the middle, tell it to get a haircut and wear a tie, and that's the bold programme of radical pragmatism that i will keep a photocopy blue-tacked to the ceiling above my bed, so that every night i go to bed and dream dreams of decent, british common sense. I thank you."

[Sebastian Cobb]

Farage has just endorsed your political viewpoints, I see.

Other people to 'big up' Starmer in the last week are Piers Morgan and George Osborne, fact fans!

[Johnny Yesno]

I'm finding honeychile's A THING very persuasive. Now give us your compelling A THING machotrouts.

[bgmnts]

machotrouts vs honeychile

THUNDERDOME

Two men enter.

One man leaves.

Weapons?

Anything is possible. It is up to chance.

Lip sync battle?

[Bobloblawslawbomb]

https://mobile.twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1277635418746425352

well this has turned out well

*J.Walter Weatherman voice* "And that's why, you don't concede to the right on every issue."

[Cuellar]

Farage wouldn't say anything for cynical reasons would he

"I think, right, if Nigel Farage can take your comments and endorse them heartily...maybe...it's time to get some new comments"

[Sebastian Cobb]

looooool - nice little throwback video of him getting shirty with a woman telling him how to use copy and paste
https://twitter.com/Sarah_Woolley/status/1277684563498668033

[Zetetic]

I believe that's Helen Steel for reference.

[BlodwynPig]

[peanutbutter]

Notice David Evans officially started his new role today

[colacentral]

You have to look at this, and also the recent military bollocks, and antisemitism bs as what they are, which is fairly blatent attempts to combat the popular view of Labour as not being supportive/strong enough on these issues. Likewise the black lives matter support is specifically on things he can be seen to support and not on the defund the police stuff. It's cynical political  maneuvering stuff, but it probably is necessary unfortunately. Why must the Labour leader be a bastion of honesty and fair play? the Tories aren't going to do any of that shit.

Couldn't wait for your take on this, and I wasn't disappointed.

[Sebastian Cobb]

I wonder what the people actually affected by his rebuff of BLM feel about his handling of it?

https://twitter.com/JermainJackman/status/1277624689368739842

oh