Post Beatles Beatles relationships

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

i think George spent much of the 70's in a dark, bitter, coked-out funk due to racking up a considerable number of personal and professional disappointments and it sounds like poor Ringo got it taken out on him, which sadly he was probably getting used to by that point

That's true, George was in a bad way and not of sound mind. However, how much coke and bitterness do you have to gorge upon to sue a close pal for recording a supposedly sub-par version of one of your tunes? Shitloads of coke and bitterness, clearly.

They laugh about it here, George has a glint in his eye that he knew he was being a prick.

https://youtu.be/JQaqcLPAI_s

Weird interview all around that, Ringo is hilarious but he seems coked up or pissed. They're both oddly jovial about Lennon's death.

Despite having seen this interview before, I'd forgotten that the awkward business of George suing Ringo raised its head. It's a very strange, if compelling, piece of television, yes. Ringo is off his face, and George looks quite embarrassed. As for their comments on John's death, I don't think any of the Beatles were particularly comfortable with talking about it in public, especially in those days. They were still grieving, still in shock.

Also, I wonder if that wayward appearance on the Aspel show encouraged Ringo to give up drinking for good? He went into rehab later that year, and hasn't touched a drop since.

[The Bumlord]

They laugh about it here, George has a glint in his eye that he knew he was being a prick.

https://youtu.be/JQaqcLPAI_s

Weird interview all around that, Ringo is hilarious but he seems coked up or pissed. They're both oddly jovial about Lennon's death.

It's a drag...

[Satchmo Distel]

On Spector, I think Instant Karma is his Beatles-related masterpiece. Lennon had only just written it, partly as an anti-Paul attack, and needed to get it out quick. Spector just imagined the correct sound straight away and made it happen

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

On Spector, I think Instant Karma is his Beatles-related masterpiece. Lennon had only just written it, partly as an anti-Paul attack, and needed to get it out quick. Spector just imagined the correct sound straight away and made it happen

Yeah, it's an amazing-sounding record. Spector gets everything just right, he takes that slapback echo Sun sound (which John suggested) and builds on it to create something uniquely raw, funky and exciting. I particularly love the weirdly reverberated, cacophonous drums, they sound like nothing before or since.

Say what you like about that absolute fucking maniac, but he knew how to produce fantastic rock and roll 45's.

[Monsieur Verdoux]

i always forget that George played the guitar on that one

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

i always forget that George played the guitar on that one

For years I assumed that Ringo played drums on Instant Karma, that loping swing and those idiosyncratic fills sound just like him.

I've just cribbed this quote from Wikipedia, obviously, but it does sum up how Spector at his best was capable of creating an amazing (wall of) sound.

[T]here was this little guy walking around with "PS" on his shirt, and I was thinking, "Who is this guy?" ... When he turned on the playback [after recording], it was just incredible. First, it was ridiculously loud, but also there was the ring of all these instruments and the way the song had such motion. As a first experience of the difference from the way you played it to the sound in the control room, it was overwhelming. And I knew immediately who he was – Phil Spector.

Klaus Voormann, describing his first experience of working with Spector and his Wall of Sound technique.

[Glebe]

http://amoralto.tumblr.com/post/68911122415/january-10th-1969-twickenham-film-studios

That really is so strange to listen to.

[kngen]

http://amoralto.tumblr.com/post/68911122415/january-10th-1969-twickenham-film-studios

I mean, they showed remarkable restraint in not strangling her.

I'd never really considered it before, but I can't help but feel John was using Yoko to antagonise the others as a kind of power-play. I suppose I thought he was blind to her more obnoxious habits, but having your missus in the recording room screeching over the mic while you're setting up? Total piss take.

[gilbertharding]

Ages ago, like probably 30 years, I read a hot take where someone was saying there is not a single widely expressed negative opinion of Yoko which couldn't be attributed to sexism, misogyny and/or racism. She was a successful artist with a valid career before she met John, who loved her and thought she was beautiful. "She broke up the Beatles" is horseshit.

I thought of all the widely expressed opinions of her, and decided I agreed with, and would defend this point of view. I still bear it in mind whenever I consider her, or listen to people's opinions of her.

On the other hand, imagine trying to make music according to rules and standards of craftsmanship you've developed and honed for 10-15 years of your life, and having someone come in and start shrieking all over it without a by-your-leave.

Also all the fucking faux-mystical crap she spouts on Twitter can fuck off, and the entire genre of art she practices is complete bunk too.

[a duncandisorderly]

For years I assumed that Ringo played drums on Instant Karma, that loping swing and those idiosyncratic fills sound just like him.

alan white, later of yes, wasn't it?

[Monsieur Verdoux]

you got it

[Nowhere Man]

Ages ago, like probably 30 years, I read a hot take where someone was saying there is not a single widely expressed negative opinion of Yoko which couldn't be attributed to sexism, misogyny and/or racism. She was a successful artist with a valid career before she met John, who loved her and thought she was beautiful. "She broke up the Beatles" is horseshit.

I thought of all the widely expressed opinions of her, and decided I agreed with, and would defend this point of view. I still bear it in mind whenever I consider her, or listen to people's opinions of her.

On the other hand, imagine trying to make music according to rules and standards of craftsmanship you've developed and honed for 10-15 years of your life, and having someone come in and start shrieking all over it without a by-your-leave.

Also all the fucking faux-mystical crap she spouts on Twitter can fuck off, and the entire genre of art she practices is complete bunk too.

Julian had to buy back letters and postcards sent between him and his father at auctions because Yoko wouldn't give them back to him. She also threw him out of the Dakota building after John's death because she could bear to look at him. That's enough to make her a grade A cunt in my book.

[Sin Agog]

Her first two albums are so much better than anything else in this thread.

[the science eel]

They're absolutely not.

But they're better than most people realise.

[Sin Agog]

Pfft, bet John would agree with me.  Plastic Ono Band and Fly are glorious motorik proto-punk ethereal sonic bliss which presaged not only several of my favourite bands like The Raincoats, but whole styles of music.  A lived-in artist at the top of her game.  Any other post-Beatles music sounds like lilylivered sub-Crackerjack Palace muzak to my ears when pitted against a titan of a song like Why.

[Monsieur Verdoux]

yeah Yoko's first two albums are brilliant and perennially underrated, but I don't know if I'd put them above All Things Must Pass or Ram. She was definitely a good artist

[Satchmo Distel]

http://amoralto.tumblr.com/post/68911122415/january-10th-1969-twickenham-film-studios

I mean, they showed remarkable restraint in not strangling her.

I was going to post exactly that. They are trying to work out how to deal with George's absence and Yoko just sabotages the conversation.

Yoko may not have "split" The Beatles but she sabotaged Paul's attempts to keep them together.

[Replies From View]

I'd never really considered it before, but I can't help but feel John was using Yoko to antagonise the others as a kind of power-play. I suppose I thought he was blind to her more obnoxious habits, but having your missus in the recording room screeching over the mic while you're setting up? Total piss take.

My sense is that Yoko didn't pull that kind of stunt especially frequently, and John wasn't part of it.  In fact he seems fairly irritated by it himself in that moment, as he's engaging in Beatletalk with the band and she's screaming for attention like it's bring your daughter into work day or something.  "What do you want?!"

My impression is that John is finally starting to appreciate that they need to get their act together if they're going to complete their current Beatles project, and Yoko, being a narcissist who doesn't understand anything that doesn't revolve around her, panics and feels she's "losing" John.  So she grabs a microphone and tries to pull him back to "reality".

And John is pulled back into her orbit soon enough, but he isn't onboard immediately.  He still loves the boys too.

YOKO: John...

JOHN: Stop that.

YOKO: John... John...

MICHAEL: We could get Ike or Tina Turner over.

JOHN: Instead of George?

MICHAEL: Yeah.

YOKO: John... John... John...

RINGO: I'm afraid he's not in!

YOKO: John! John! John!

JOHN: He's busy!

[a duncandisorderly]

bad enough without yoko there.... I've been in bands where this sort of thing has been going on... it's not an unusual dynamic, & it tends to be quite short-lived, but in the larger context of what these guys had already been through, their creative exhaustion & the looming legal battles, GH's days were clearly in single digits.

http://amoralto.tumblr.com/post/64047086413/january-6th-1969-twickenham-film-studios

[a duncandisorderly]

the problem here is that the song they're working on is clearly a duet, & george isn't included. it's nothing more than unfortunate timing, in the sense that they'd set about working on this song, & the song itself is excluding george, at precisely the time when the fabric of the group is at its most fragile. I'd love to know what ringo was thinking during these exchanges- you almost forget he's there. is he playing chess with mal evans?

http://amoralto.tumblr.com/post/161550613357/january-6th-1969-twickenham-film-studios#161550613357

[Beagle 2]

Especially interesting that, in that after the famous "please you" argument it all calms down and they move on. It really wasn't much of anything.

[biggytitbo]

Amazing to hear Paul jamming with John one of the latters most famous solo songs Gimme Some Truth https://youtu.be/eD-6mwXImDE


You could argue Mccartney almost deserves a co- writing credit, as what he's improv-ing there is incredibly close to the final song.

[a duncandisorderly]

one of the later amoralto clips is, despite being difficult to transcribe, absolutely key in understanding the relationship between lennon & mccartney, while also illustrating why GH could never have been part of a creative trio with them, in the sense of either song-writing or arranging. this one-

http://amoralto.tumblr.com/post/53462054296/january-13th-1969-twickenham-studios-london

& look at that last line from lennon- "We – there's no way we could have translated it to him, to say... you know."

having finally said, out loud, what each of them brought to the process of creating a lennon/mccartney song, clearing the air, they remember poor george.

[Satchmo Distel]

I think John has a point there. He'd been writing eyeball to eyeball with John since 1957 with George having no input. Much of what they communicate to each other is intuitive and non-verbal. How could George ever become part of that? OTOH they were rejecting his input as a guitarist not just a composer, despite the fact that he'd proven his ability to craft a guitar line on several albums, notably Rubber Soul and Revolver.

There was a discussion at a different time where Lennon proposed an album in which he, Macca and George each contributed four tracks and Macca threw out the idea. Discussed on Fabcast episode 5 around 35-40 minutes in:

https://soundcloud.com/fabcast-870039074

[Replies From View]

Bit of a tangent this, but not entirely irrelevant to the thread:  I keep seeing clips of Harrison in 1974 and thinking that he looks close to death.  Quite gaunt, almost skeletal in the face in particular.  Was there something wrong, beyond presumably drugs?  Or am I seeing things?

[Satchmo Distel]

His voice totally went in 1974; a disastrous US tour where he couldn't reach the notes and was very hoarse (Dark Hoarse?). He was over-indulging in some things, certainly weed but maybe stronger stuff. There's an interview with him and Lennon from 1974 where they are both totally gone.

"You Never Give Me Your Money" by Pete Doggett covers the period well.

[Monsieur Verdoux]

1974 was his big coke period, if I recall correctly. Related to the breakdown of his marriage and his recent albums/tour being generally shat on by critics. Also, the laryngitis can't have made eating easy

He did a song, 'Simply Shady', that playfully evokes the ways in which he was over-indulging and making his own life hell

[Monsieur Verdoux]

Part of the reason I find George's Extra Texture album fascinating is because it's a work by someone who is so clearly bitter, depressed, angry and utterly defeated whereas the entirety of his subsequent work seems like the work of someone who has resolved to put less of themselves in their art. From 33 & 1/3 onwards he hides behind professionalism and tasteful slide guitar licks

[biggytitbo]

I've never seen George from any era look very well. Over indulgence probably didn't help but he was just naturally a gaunt, pasty looking man wasn't he?

[Monsieur Verdoux]

George was a babe. 67-70 era George Harrison = the best looking Beatle