Misandry In Popular Culture & The Death Of The Real Man - Via The Prism Of TV

[Ginyard]

My nephew had never heard of Tarzan either.

That's the sort of thing that makes me cry. Not that I'd actually cry, being an alpha male and all.

[Lord Mandrake]

Strong men also cry

[Famous Mortimer]

I've thought of several examples to disprove the "why don't we see competent men and ditzy women" thing about stereotyping the sitcom. "Better Off Ted", where the main star is incredibly competent and his two female co-stars are ditzes, to a greater or lesser degree.

Historically, of course, this wasn't the case – I Dream Of Jeanie and Bewitched both featured largely competent male leads and wacky oddball females. Elaine from Seinfeld is arguably more ditzy than any of the men – certainly more so than the show's titular star.

I was going to write something about how seeing male-female relations that mirror perceived power structures inside society (dominant, competent male; passive or foolish female) just wouldn't be that funny, and that's why the modern trend has been to turn that stereotype on its head. But then I thought of a few examples that disproved the OP so I thought I'd list them instead.

News Radio – straight-laced, competent male lead, with more than his fair share of useless women round him. Strangers With Candy – although none of the cast could be called competent in any way, the males certainly seemed to hold it together better than Amy Sedaris. 

There are lots more examples where your initial point just doesn't come up. Post Seinfeld, there have been lots of good sitcoms where gender doesn't come into it – ensemble casts where being incompetent, or a slob, isn't gender-specific. Community and Parks and Recreation are two excellent modern examples but there are many others.

The sort of shows which do feature the relationships you describe – the King of Queens syndrome, let's call it – are usually crap and not worth debating anyway.

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

"... Her?"

[Dead kate moss]

Good list, I'd only really question Bewitched. Darren is a fool, but I think the show is a metaphor for female empowerment and fits the times fine.

I'd also disagree that the only comedies that feature the stereotypes I mention are King Of Queens fodder, though that typifies the standard. Surely The Simpsons, Family Guy and Curb Your Enthusiasm fit the picture too? But I totally understand that inverting perceived power-structures and poking fun at supposed authority figures is funny, picking on the 'weak' less so. I did ask for examples of sit-coms where the male was capable and the female stoopid, and I accept there are some, and that's fine if the overall playing field was a bit more balanced. Not every comedy needs to address gender roles, but I like early Cheers (in this sense, I like later Cheers more for laughs) or Moonlighting where both sexes were equally represented, and it's one of the reasons I like 30Rock. It's fine and dandy to poke fun at or criticize the 'masculine man' in comedy, but to consistently not put them in shows, always make them the bad guys, or reduce them to the thinnest stereotypes is tiresome.

[Ignatius_S]

...I'd also disagree that the only comedies that feature the stereotypes I mention are King Of Queens fodder, though that typifies the standard. Surely The Simpsons, Family Guy and Curb Your Enthusiasm fit the picture too? But I totally understand that inverting perceived power-structures and poking fun at supposed authority figures is funny, picking on the 'weak' less so. I did ask for examples of sit-coms where the male was capable and the female stoopid, and I accept there are some, and that's fine if the overall playing field was a bit more balanced....

A classic example is The Burns and Allen Show, a sitcom hugely popular on TV and radio, where Burns was the sensible, capable husband (although perhaps less so, when it came to his belief in his singing) and Allen, a complete nitwit.

With The Simpsons, as the show has gone on, Marge has been sometimes shown in a far from flattering light – for example, pushing Lisa into ballet to fulfil her own childhood dreams by proxy or she tried to fit in at the local country club. There have been times when the advice she offers her children is patently useless and can display an inability to see the world how it is.

However, I would say with The Simpsons these days, what the characters are like in an episode is done for expediency, namely what is wanted for that story, rather than any consistant characterisation.

Initially, I would say that Marge fitted into the type of main female that kind be found in The Flintstones, or the sitcom it ripped off, The Honeymooners, where the wife is pretty much perfect and it perfectly patient with the hothead she married. I think this is – or was - quite common in sitcoms, it's not that the man was necessarily an idiot, but he can be quick to rush to conclusions.
   
Although Cheryl in Curb Your Enthusiasm appears to be a long-suffering wife, she can be something of a nag – and unless my mind is completely playing tricks, there have been times that Larry only got into trouble because he's done something she told him to and then pretends it's nothing to do with her.

[Famous Mortimer]

Oh, I Love Lucy. But I guess the age of these shows helps to prove the OP's point.

[JPA]

Extras has Maggie as the blundering idiot, with Millman as the downtrodden voice of reason.

Though as I recall, Maggie's intelligence/stupidity tended to waver throughout the series.

[Mister Six]

As did Milman's. Because Extras was shit.

[Vitalstatistix]

Hey, none of this proves anything! The OP is shit!

[Famous Mortimer]

Hey, none of this proves anything! The OP is shit!

Well, naturally. I was trying to be polite though.

[NoSleep]

edit: fuck it

[defmem]

News Radio – straight-laced, competent male lead, with more than his fair share of useless women round him.

Although I largely agree with you, i don't when it comes to Newsradio. Surely the idiocy/foibles of Joe, Bill and Matthew more than eclipsed those of Lisa, Beth and Catherine. Although Beth was the requisite 'ditzy' female, this seemed to be often highlighted as a forced affectation on her part, and the problems in her life were entirely down to her being lazy and not giving a shit about the consequences of her actions.

And Lisa was by far and away the most intelligent character in the show. Of course, maybe that was the point - she should have been in charge as an experienced, intelligent, ambitious reporter, but Jimmy instead chose the young rookie guy. It was certainly a strong point of contention between the characters throughout the series i thought.

They certainly mis-stepped with Catherine, she was more or less 'Sassy black lady #1', but even then there was a sense that she was mostly uninterested and above the rest of the (more often than not, male) characters banal crap.       

[Zero Gravitas]

Benedict said of Battlestar Galactica 'you can't have a character like Starbuck today -- a cigar-smoking, drinking, womanizing lovable scoundrel. The feminist movement got rid of those guys.' In the new series of Battlestar Galactica, Starbuck is female.

What about Gai...oh wait.



You're a traitor to the twelve colonies and my argument Baltar!

[CaledonianGonzo]

[Zero Gravitas]

[NoSleep]

You are actually Baltar, aren't you, ZG?

[Zero Gravitas]

I've stuck my penis into a toaster if that's what you mean?

[NoSleep]

That wasn't the information I was seeking.