Misandry In Popular Culture & The Death Of The Real Man - Via The Prism Of TV

[tater pie]

To be honest I do feel sorry for men, getting mocked like that on sitcoms and adverts for being a bit silly.  That's so much more worse than, say, the pay gap or inequalities at work.  You know, stuff that actually matters to people's lives.

[Dead kate moss]

You seem like a passionate person with a lot to say on the subject. But really, all those articles you sourced are a load of bullshit. Real men use the internet for porn. Not to read about relationships or seek dating advice.

Or porn and discussing comedy in your case? Real Men can indeed use the internet for it's One Holy Reason Porn, but sadly there are lots of poor little confused males out there who can't get laid, or find themselves being dumped again and again. 'But I'm doing everything right!' they wail. 'I'm listening, I'm not being dominant or controlling, in fact I try to do everything I can to please her! And now she's gone back to that ex she was always complaining about' And after years of such heartbreak and confusion THAT'S when a misogynist might be born.

Better that these guys were given the advice that most women won't tell them, that most men don't understand. Women want a man who won't put up with their shit. Not their valid issues... their unreasonable crap, the 'shit-tests' that were mentioned in another thread exist. Women want a man with backbone, who are confident in their opinions and aren't afraid to disagree or tell a woman when she's being unreasonable. And they weed out the pussies by seeing if they have any boundaries, to see if no matter how unreasonable and even cruelly they act, all will be excused and forgiven. They'll make the man see it was all his fault. Then when they realise they are with such an easily manipulated wimp they will lose any attraction they had to them.

The answer is for men to stop feeling they are always wrong and at fault, or that meekly submitting is what the woman wants. It isn't. That's what a Real Man understands, and it ensures more and/or better relationships.

There is nothing wrong with men giving other men advice on relationships. Women train themselves from an early age, read Cosmo tips, discuss tactics and are generally so far ahead of the game that most men give up and say 'women, huh, don't bother trying to understand them.'

I'm doing fine, but I do cringe when I see another couple where the man has willingly given his partner his balls. I worry about the next generation of boys, struggling with the meaning of masculinity and being given the options of either supplicant feminisation, or misogynist rapper/gangster. There must be a middle way and society, especially men, should face up to where we are now, and what the future holds for our man-children if we don't give them the glorious freedom to be proud of their masculinity, while still being caring sensitive, charming, etc.

And rubbish the selected pieces that support my opinion if you like, but it's what many, many women are yearning for too.

[Dead kate moss]

To be honest I do feel sorry for men, getting mocked like that on sitcoms and adverts for being a bit silly.  That's so much more worse than, say, the pay gap or inequalities at work.  You know, stuff that actually matters to people's lives.

It's not one or the other is it? And those issues are well-addressed in the media. In the Guardian, every single day.

[Dead kate moss]

Fucksakes, I wrote a big reply but it was lost. Sorry Dead Kate Moss. But I still have the energy to ask:

How many women, and who are they? Who is the psycho? What defines a jerk? How do you know about any of their motivations? Do you have statistics to back any of this up?

If I called my girlfriend (or any of the previous ones) 'missy', she'd rip the piss out of me something rotten. How many women have you met that would actually view this as acceptable language?

I suspect that you're either projecting onto other people and relationships or you're running with a very strange crowd. I would suggest trying to move in other social circles. Easier said than done, I know...

I learnt a lot in my time dishing out advice on relationship advice forums. Obviously these are the relationships in trouble, not the ones ticking happily along, but you hear the same story many times, patterns emerge. Men doing everything they can to hold the family together, after years of treating their spouse like a princess,  while the woman is leaving because she 'just doesn't love him anymore' (and I wonder why). Women feeling empowered to divorce because they are bored, because they have been told they deserve it all, and responsibility is an annoying hangover from the patriarchy.

I don't have stats on women choosing bad-boys over nice guys. Neither do I have the exact number of women who play around with these exciting but no-good-for-a-long-term type, get up the duff, then find a nice provider type to raise the kid until it's old enough or she gets bored, and it's divorce time, and she's back out playing with the wrong-uns. Meanwhile the poor guy who thought he was doing the right thing working hard to save the poor damsel in distress ends up alone, perhaps on the end of a noose. But without exact stats that common modern path for many women is just a figment of my imagination.

And yes, there are men who leave their family too. They are the ones that get the press, the ones that men are constantly having to prove they are not the same as, the ones we are all tarred by the same brush with.

[Vitalstatistix]

Yo, dude's got issues!

[Shuggie]

I think some of you are being a bit too dismissive of this issue, true enough men are not in a position anything like what feminists had to fight against but there are certain areas which I think could do with addressing, such as how fathers are perceived and the value of men in the family courts, there is a massive imbalance here and a large degree of institutional misandry this is not healthy.

Also in advertising the staple of the feckless man is becoming ever more prominent, I assume this is designed to appeal to women on a subconscious level in the same manner that advertising aimed at men in the 70's portrayed women as little more than props and objects of ridicule its not nice and it shouldn't be acceptable either way around.

In secondary education male attainment has been steadily falling in relation to girls, and with boys from lower socio economic groups this becomes even more pronounced this can be attributed to across the board issues with schooling in general but its worth considering how changes in curriculum over the past 20 years or so have also inadvertently favoured girls over boys, this is again reflected in tertiary education where a greater proportion of women go on to study at university than men.

In youth unemployment again there's an imbalance with a greater proportion of our young men unemployed than women in the same age bracket.

In health there are other imbalances with cancer screening for men being patchy less coordinated and publicised than those programs for women, for younger men the inadequacies in mental health services is a huge problem with the number of young men who attempt or succeed in committing suicide every year.

I think this is a subject with some merit but I don't ever see anyone talking about it seriously.

[Mister Six]

I learnt a lot in my time dishing out advice on relationship advice forums. Obviously these are the relationships in trouble, not the ones ticking happily along, but you hear the same story many times, patterns emerge. Men doing everything they can to hold the family together, after years of treating their spouse like a princess,  while the woman is leaving because she 'just doesn't love him anymore' (and I wonder why). Women feeling empowered to divorce because they are bored, because they have been told they deserve it all, and responsibility is an annoying hangover from the patriarchy.

Well there's part of your problem. Firstly you're only getting one side of the story - a side that will, of course, paint the bloke in a positive light - and secondly you're narrowing down your sample to men who have relationship troubles AND use computers AND use the internet for relationship advice. That's hardly scientific.

I don't have stats on women choosing bad-boys over nice guys.

Okay.

Neither do I have the exact number of women who play around with these exciting but no-good-for-a-long-term type, get up the duff, then find a nice provider type to raise the kid until it's old enough or she gets bored, and it's divorce time, and she's back out playing with the wrong-uns. Meanwhile the poor guy who thought he was doing the right thing working hard to save the poor damsel in distress ends up alone, perhaps on the end of a noose.

Eh? You say this like it means something.

But without exact stats that common modern path for many women is just a figment of my imagination.

Yes, it is. Is this you admitting it, or are you being ironic? I genuinely don't know.

[Johnny Yesno]

I think this is a subject with some merit but I don't ever see anyone talking about it seriously.

I think that's to do with the "cowboy" piece in the OP.

[Shuggie]

I was hoping to steer things in a bit more of an interesting and productive direction

[Mister Six]

I think some of you are being a bit too dismissive of this issue, true enough men are not in a position anything like what feminists had to fight against but there are certain areas which I think could do with addressing, such as how fathers are perceived and the value of men in the family courts, there is a massive imbalance here and a large degree of institutional misandry this is not healthy.

I don't disagree on this issue, although I'm not knowledgeable enough on the issue to say for sure. But I do believe that divorce and family courts tend to favour women, which is unfair.

Also in advertising the staple of the feckless man is becoming ever more prominent, I assume this is designed to appeal to women on a subconscious level in the same manner that advertising aimed at men in the 70's portrayed women as little more than props and objects of ridicule its not nice and it shouldn't be acceptable either way around.

Advertising aimed at men still portrays women as props (cf. Lynx, WKD, etc); as things to be attained and valued only by their looks. And yes, such ads are designed to appeal on a subconscious level, but that's how these things work.

In secondary education male attainment has been steadily falling in relation to girls, and with boys from lower socio economic groups this becomes even more pronounced this can be attributed to across the board issues with schooling in general but its worth considering how changes in curriculum over the past 20 years or so have also inadvertently favoured girls over boys

You say that like it's a fact. Is it a fact? I don't know, but I'd be interested to find out more. Could it not also be about socio-economic and gender factors? Likewise the uni thing - manual work (plumbing, carpentry, building, mechanical work) is largely male-dominated; could it be that men are more likely to seek those job paths than to go to uni, while women see university as the only way to get a job outside of Asda and the like?

In youth unemployment again there's an imbalance with a greater proportion of our young men unemployed than women in the same age bracket.

In health there are other imbalances with cancer screening for men being patchy less coordinated and publicised than those programs for women, for younger men the inadequacies in mental health services is a huge problem with the number of young men who attempt or succeed in committing suicide every year.

I think this is a subject with some merit but I don't ever see anyone talking about it seriously.

Can't argue with any of these. But does it help your case to tie them in with a discussion about whether women want psychos and jerks? you might be better off starting a new thread.

[Dead kate moss]

Well there's part of your problem. Firstly you're only getting one side of the story - a side that will, of course, paint the bloke in a positive light - and secondly you're narrowing down your sample to men who have relationship troubles AND use computers AND use the internet for relationship advice. That's hardly scientific.

I spent most of my recent years at a site that catered to both sexes. I am paraphrasing women's own words with their reasoning as to why it was okay to leave their husband and kids because they were unfulfilled. A tricky issue, but not one I only heard the man's side on. Sorry for any confusion.

Is this you admitting it, or are you being ironic? I genuinely don't know.

I was being ironic. Just because there have been no studies, I have seen this phenomenon many times on the internet, and in 'real life' too.  I bet some people reading this know of someone who has, or have been in such a marriage/relationship themselves.

[hpmons]

There are really two issues here:
- If its good to be a "manly man", and whether women find it attractive
- If adverts and sitcoms (and the media at large) portray men as bumbling idiots excessively.

I think some of you are being a bit too dismissive of this issue, true enough men are not in a position anything like what feminists had to fight against but there are certain areas which I think could do with addressing, such as how fathers are perceived and the value of men in the family courts, there is a massive imbalance here and a large degree of institutional misandry this is not healthy.

Also in advertising the staple of the feckless man is becoming ever more prominent, I assume this is designed to appeal to women on a subconscious level in the same manner that advertising aimed at men in the 70's portrayed women as little more than props and objects of ridicule its not nice and it shouldn't be acceptable either way around.

Certainly not, those types of adverts are incredibly tedious.  It's less so in sitcoms, because largely its both men and women who are shown as feckless.

In health there are other imbalances with cancer screening for men being patchy less coordinated and publicised than those programs for women, for younger men the inadequacies in mental health services is a huge problem with the number of young men who attempt or succeed in committing suicide every year.

I think this is a subject with some merit but I don't ever see anyone talking about it seriously.

I believe the statistic is something like...Women are roughly ten times more likely to attempt suicide, but men are ten times more likely to succeed.  In certain areas (e.g eating disorders) women are far more likely to have problems, so it makes sense for support to be tipping more towards women, but I'd imagine it general tips unfairly that way (like domestic abuse against men, people don't like to talk about that).  I suppose there's also the general feeling people have that men should man-up and deal with things.

_{Crikey, I just noticed how many vague words I use. Orwell would hate me}

[Mister Six]

I spent most of my recent years at a site that catered to both sexes. I am paraphrasing women's own words with their reasoning as to why it was okay to leave their husband and kids because they were unfulfilled. A tricky issue, but not one I only heard the man's side on. Sorry for any confusion.

Okay, right. But again you've got problems of:

a- Selection bias: the biggest proportion of your evidence seems to come from a relationship website, which clearly stacks the decks in favour of people who are deeply unhappy with their relationships, are probably lying or exaggerating their stories in their favour and are, in any case, a subset of a subset of a subset. This is not a wide and varied enough sample to draw conclusions about the desires and attitudes of all (or most) women and men.
b- Paraphrasing: you're boiling down what hundreds (thousands?) of people have said into a single sentence, which invariably means conflating individual meanings, emotions, phrases and personalities into a homogenous lump and discarding any outliers. The end result doesn't represent anything.
c- Personal bias: you're relying on your memories of your years on the website, not on objective facts. All of this information will be filtered through your memory, personality and biases before it makes it into this forum. And it's not just an issue of the passage of time - your own biases will have affected your reading of the relationship stories you were given. Studies have shown that contrary facts not only fail to change people's minds, they can actively strengthen their prejudices. How do you know that you didn't subconsciously discard or warp contradictory stories at the time (and later) to fit your argument?

I was being ironic. Just because there have been no studies, I have seen this phenomenon many times on the internet, and in 'real life' too.  I bet some people reading this know of someone who has, or have been in such a marriage/relationship themselves.

Again, anecdotal evidence isn't proof of any kind of wider societal issue. I've never known anyone (even tangentially) who's been in this situation. Does that mean the problem doesn't exist?

[Dead kate moss]

Advertising aimed at men still portrays women as props (cf. Lynx, WKD, etc); as things to be attained and valued only by their looks. And yes, such ads are designed to appeal on a subconscious level, but that's how these things work.

The WKD ads are fairly nauseating, and are appealing to those irredeemable Sid The Sexist types I mentioned. Also they seem to feature just as many stupid tricks played on their cretinous male friends. The Lynx women are arguably props - or rather prizes, but it's not nasty. The product is selling itself as making yourself attractive to women, and it does so with reasonable humour and doesn't humiliate the women.

And moreover, these do not reflect the vast majority of ads aimed at men. Watch a random selection of ads, as I have been doing since this topic became of interest to me, and it's clear that for every ad that might be sexist against women there are far far more that belittle men.

[Johnny Yesno]

I have seen this phenomenon many times on the internet, and in 'real life' too.  I bet some people reading this know of someone who has, or have been in such a marriage/relationship themselves.

I can't say I have. This sounds suspiciously like the "trend" for girls to get pregnant in order to get a council flat. It may well have happened ever but I'd treat its significance to society at large with the same level of scepticism. On the other hand, I have known women who were loyal beyond the call of duty to total bastards.

[Mr_Simnock]

Cheers forced unreconstructed alpha male Sam to deal with the independent and liberated Diane, and later his intellectual and sensitive rival Fraser. The battle seemed unwinnable all round. After years written as a happy bachelor, new-fangled political correctness meant Sam eventually learned his womanizing was a mental illness. Diane fared no better and ended up an unfulfilled Hollywood hack. Fraser got his own show.

Haven't laughed as much in ages.

Meanwhile in the real world, many women were suffering buyer's remorse. Somehow the old-fashioned Real Man (or even the 'Bad Boy') seemed more exciting and challenging than the eager-to-please new model. To quote George from Seinfeld '"She thinks I'm a nice guy. Women always think I'm nice. But women don't want nice. Why is nice bad? What kind of a sick society are we living in when nice is bad?"

And another, this is good stuff, another hearty laugh

Women find a certain swaggering machismo sexually attractive. That's worth understanding for both men and women, many today are still in denial about this, but the evidence remains.

Many are still in denial? Oh yes they couldn't possible find a different male temperament attractive could they, all women want the same thing they just don't realise it. Bloody hell.

Out of interest could you care to point out who you define as a real man? Are we to take it its some of the tossers mentioned in the your first rant? Also why is it you believe.   most of you opinions are fact and not just opinions? Finally are you over the age of 15, I'm having problems imagining someone 16+ actually holding most of your ideas about real men for more than a few minutes before dismissing them as simply stupid.

[Dead kate moss]

a- Selection bias: the biggest proportion of your evidence seems to come from a relationship website, which clearly stacks the decks in favour of people who are deeply unhappy with their relationships, are probably lying or exaggerating their stories in their favour and are, in any case, a subset of a subset of a subset. This is not a wide and varied enough sample to draw conclusions about the desires and attitudes of all (or most) women and men.
b- Paraphrasing: you're boiling down what hundreds (thousands?) of people have said into a single sentence, which invariably means conflating individual meanings, emotions, phrases and personalities into a homogenous lump and discarding any outliers. The end result doesn't represent anything.
c- Personal bias: you're relying on your memories of your years on the website, not on objective facts. All of this information will be filtered through your memory, personality and biases before it makes it into this forum. And it's not just an issue of the passage of time - your own biases will have affected your reading of the relationship stories you were given. Studies have shown that contrary facts not only fail to change people's minds, they can actively strengthen their prejudices. How do you know that you didn't subconsciously discard or warp contradictory stories at the time (and later) to fit your argument?

Again, anecdotal evidence isn't proof of any kind of wider societal issue. I've never known anyone (even tangentially) who's been in this situation. Does that mean the problem doesn't exist?

Confirmation bias, possible but I didn't have that opinion going in. It's impossible for me to truly know, and impossible for you to ever trust me, some guy on the internet, to convince you, so we'll have to leave it up to the reader to decide how much he thinks I couldn't objectively notice certain patterns without distorting them with his own unconscious biases. Or if you're really curious, spend some time at a relationship site yourself.

I already covered that I am only seeing the relationships in trouble. The ones doing fine don't tend to self-report, though the ones I've seen work well in real life contained a man with a backbone.

I know the problem with anecdotal evidence. I know I can find articles supporting pretty much anything on the internet. Without hard scientific data and research, there is no way I am going to prove my case. Likewise, nobody can prove me wrong, so a discussion without a possible definitive conclusion seems the best this thread can ever hope for. As I knew going in.

[vrailaine]

I believe the statistic is something like...Women are roughly ten times more likely to attempt suicide, but men are ten times more likely to succeed.

Is it really that extreme? Does that count as evidence that women are worse at planning things whilst in a highly emotional state?

[Mister Six]

The WKD ads are fairly nauseating, and are appealing to those irredeemable Sid The Sexist types I mentioned. Also they seem to feature just as many stupid tricks played on their cretinous male friends. The Lynx women are arguably props - or rather prizes, but it's not nasty. The product is selling itself as making yourself attractive to women, and it does so with reasonable humour and doesn't humiliate the women.

There's an argument to be made that it does humiliate women, though - if not the women on the ad - by implying that women are all mindless creatures driven by impulse and only interested in servicing men. I wouldn't necessarily agree, but still.

And moreover, these do not reflect the vast majority of ads aimed at men. Watch a random selection of ads, as I have been doing since this topic became of interest to me, and it's clear that for every ad that might be sexist against women there are far far more that belittle men.

Depends which channels you watch and what time of day - targeted advertising and all that - but since neither of us can (or can be arsed to) draw up a list of all the ads and their man- or woman-hating content it's probably not worth pursuing this one. EDIT: as you said above.

[Zetetic]

And moreover, these do not reflect the vast majority of ads aimed at men. Watch a random selection of ads, as I have been doing since this topic became of interest to me, and it's clear that for every ad that might be sexist against women there are far far more that belittle men.

That's obviously a testable claim. I'll keep looking but Coltrane & Messineo (2000) reckon that you're speaking bollocks as regards mid-90s USA. I'll try to find a more recent and British analysis though.

This article reports on a content analysis of television commercials (n = 1699) aired on programs with high ratings for specific target audiences from 1992 to 1994...In general, 1990s television commercials tend to portray White men as powerful, white women as sex objects...

Edit:
There's still considerable evidence that television continues to perpetuate 'traditional' gender stereotypes rather than the new ones you suggest.

Nassif & Gunter 2008
This study conducted a content analysis of TV adverts from ... ITV1 in the United Kingdom in 2000–2001.
Women appeared more often in domestic roles and settings and less often in occupational or leisure roles and settings...

Paek, Nelson & Vilela 2010
Using content analysis methodology, we compared the gender and occupation of the prominent character and the gender of the voice-over across 2,608 television commercials in Brazil, Canada, China, Germany, South Korea, Thailand, and the United States.
Overall, males were featured in prominent visual and auditory roles, while females were still portrayed in stereotypical ways.
(I realise that this one really has a mish-mash of cultures, so I'd need to go through the paper in more detail to examine if it truly contradicted your claims which I assume mainly apply to Britain, or Anglo-Saxon cultures or ?.)

There's a paper by Furnham & Mak (1999) that attempts to examine changes in gender representation over time in television advertising, but alas, I can't read it. Edit: We'll I've found a bit of it, but I can't read the whole thing still. I does seem to indicate that British television advertising has at least seen a reduction in 'traditional' sex role stereotyping. Perhaps you're simply noticing the adverts that annoy you, rather than the ones that conform to cultural-wide gender stereotypes?

Thus far though what  'hard scientific data and research' there has been on the subject isn't supporting your claims. You can argue with their content scoring systems I suppose.

[Johnny Yesno]

The Lynx women are arguably props - or rather prizes, but it's not nasty. The product is selling itself as making yourself attractive to women, and it does so with reasonable humour and doesn't humiliate the women.

And moreover, these do not reflect the vast majority of ads aimed at men. Watch a random selection of ads, as I have been doing since this topic became of interest to me, and it's clear that for every ad that might be sexist against women there are far far more that belittle men.

I guess that depends on what you see as sexist. Lynx are good at creating borderline cases:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAIt6Z8aW6M

I already covered that I am only seeing the relationships in trouble. The ones doing fine don't tend to self-report, though the ones I've seen work well in real life contained a man with a backbone.

That's hardly surprising since men "with a backbone" might just have better negotiating skills. I just can't see how bringing back 70s TV stereotypes is going to make men better negotiators.

[Dead kate moss]

Many are still in denial? Oh yes they couldn't possible find a different male temperament attractive could they, all women want the same thing they just don't realise it. Bloody hell.

Out of interest could you care to point out who you define as a real man? Are we to take it its some of the tossers mentioned in the your first rant? Also why is it you believe.   most of you opinions are fact and not just opinions? Finally are you over the age of 15, I'm having problems imagining someone 16+ actually holding most of your ideas about real men for more than a few minutes before dismissing them as simply stupid.

I've tried to use as many qualifiers as I can - many women this, some women that - but I have generalized too. I didn't say in that first post 'All women were suffering buyers remorse.' Many may well like their men in the modern style, and they have a great selection to choose from. Nerds have apparently never been more popular -

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2007/nov/04/familyandrelationships2

their appeal remains that of the female taking charge, removing the NHS specs and exclaiming: 'Why, Geek Boy, you're beautiful'. A nerdophile confesses: 'I know it's unpalatable, but I get a kick out of the power dynamic - the slavish gratitude, having him in my sway.'

Whatever floats your boat, but at least she admits it's her power over him she gets a kick out of. Hope her bfs know what they are signing up for.

Meanwhile many are yearning for more that have that fabled backbone...

A colleague recalls squiring a boy-band worthy youth: 'He was incredibly good-looking, but, alas, the rest of it didn't match up. It sounds callous, but he was just too sweet - never argued, just said: "I've never thought of it like that" whenever I disagreed with him - that killed all passion.'

Which is, annoyance at media representation apart, the crux of what I've been saying. Many men these days are overly compliant, too afraid of disagreement, not enabled to stand-up for themselves, and shamed as misogynists if they dare to ever disagree with a woman. Too many doormats, not enough backbones, that's it in a nutshell.

[Dead kate moss]

I does seem to indicate that British television advertising has at least seen a reduction in 'traditional' sex role stereotyping. Perhaps you're simply noticing the adverts that annoy you, rather than the ones that conform to cultural-wide gender stereotypes?

Thus far though what  'hard scientific data and research' there has been on the subject isn't supporting your claims. You can argue with their content scoring systems I suppose.

I'd be happy to see it first. It is of course likely I am noticing the ads that annoy me most... though portraying women in domestic/traditional settings (respectfully) is slightly a different type of sexism than the demeaning anti-male ones I am bothered about.

[CaledonianGonzo]

Do you consider yourself to be a 'real' man, DKM?

Presuming the answer is 'yes', how exactly does that manifest itself?

[Dead kate moss]

Do you consider yourself to be a 'real' man, DKM?

Presuming the answer is 'yes', how exactly does that manifest itself?

Mostly I guess. Like I said, it means not taking any crap. I am loyal, caring, protective, and will treat my partner like a Queen - as long as she treats me like a King (no gender-power imbalance intended there). I am a rock when needed to be. And I expect my partner to be there for me on the occasions I cannot be, though it pays to keep them rare - that's the male burden. Any bad behaviour will be confronted. Any disrespect will be challenged. And I expect the same in return.

[Ronnie the Raincoat]

I can see your balls from here.

[Barberism]

Mostly I guess. Like I said, it means not taking any crap. I am loyal, caring, protective, and will treat my partner like a Queen - as long as she treats me like a King (no gender-power imbalance intended there). I am a rock when needed to be. And I expect my partner to be there for me on the occasions I cannot be, though it pays to keep them rare - that's the male burden. Any bad behaviour will be confronted. Any disrespect will be challenged. And I expect the same in return.

I can transform into a truck and my cum tastes like chocolate.

[Dead kate moss]

That would be funny if I'd said something twattish instead of doing my best to answer a fair question that was bound to be ridiculable whatever I'd said.

Ah, it was still a little bit funny.

Anyway, I have clearly illustrated what I consider a 'real man' many times and will in future answer any such questions with long boring quotes off the internet. Be warned.

[Johnny Yesno]

I'd be happy to see it first. It is of course likely I am noticing the ads that annoy me most... though portraying women in domestic/traditional settings (respectfully) is slightly a different type of sexism than the demeaning anti-male ones I am bothered about.

It's not just domestic/traditional sexism, though, is it? What about all the hair, make-up and anti-ageing product ads? Constantly implying there's things wrong with women in order to maintain a market for chemicals doesn't seem very respectful to me.

[Barberism]

That would be funny if I'd said something twattish instead of doing my best to answer a fair question that was bound to be ridiculable whatever I'd said.

Ah, it was still a little bit funny.

Anyway, I have clearly illustrated what I consider a 'real man' many times and will in future answer any such questions with long boring quotes off the internet. Be warned.

Sorry. Wasn't trying to be a dick. You just have to be a bit careful with describing yourself in that way. We all like to THINK we are like that but most of us know deep down it is an ideal and not something we can be all the time.