If multiculturalism has failed, what next?

[jutl]

Standing by my desk, saluting and pledging allegiance to an icon was always the scariest part of the school day when I was young.

Clearly your school bullies lacked motivation.

[Dead kate moss]

AND IT'S JUST STARTING! Woooooo! Ever complained about a politician using the politics of fear to manipulate the publics emotions? Well look at what you just said.
Bloody hell! Anyone would think it's judgement day for equality because a twatty posh boy made a comment

The heart of my post was that REAL CUTS were going to hurt REAL PEOPLE. But you ignored that. Is 'it' just starting? Undeniably, it's not 'the politics of fear' to point out the Tories have years left in power and have come out stomping on the poor. But we should just chill out and probably it'll all be ok. You are a silly man.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Trust me on this, they will happily go into coaltion with the EDL, BNP, UKIP if it means they can protect the bonuses of the bankers

They won't need to though will they, they could go into a coalition with Labour for that, if needs be.

Sorry, I think you went a little bit too mental for me there, Sov.

[jutl]

The heart of my post was that REAL CUTS were going to hurt REAL PEOPLE. But you ignored that. Is 'it' just starting? Undeniably, it's not 'the politics of fear' to point out the Tories have years left in power and have come out stomping on the poor. But we should just chill out and probably it'll all be ok. You are a silly man.

Aren't we talking about multiculturalism though? I'm confused.

[biggytitbo]

=



When we accept this equation, we can make some progress.

[Sovereign]

...although of course at that time Argentina didn't exist, so it's hard to argue it was dispossessed. It's fairly pointless reaching back that far. You might as well say that they are the property of the Yaghan people of Tierra del Fuego who spent their time braving the South Atlantic in order to give foxes lifts in their canoes. It's not known if they were bringing chickens back as part of some primitive logic puzzle.

That's a fair point, although I didn't claim we "dispossessed" it off the Argentines, merely that we went there invaded and formed a colony. That colony just happens to be in Argetinian territory now, and we should give it to them, because it is absurb that we still claim sovereignty over a piece of land so far from Britain and so close to Argentina.

[jutl]

That's a fair point, although I didn't claim we "dispossessed" it off the Argentines, merely that we went there invaded and formed a colony. That colony just happens to be in Argetinian territory now, and we should give it to them, because it is absurb that we still claim sovereignty over a piece of land so far from Britain and so close to Argentina.

It's absurd that the both American continents are in the hands of European colonists - why quibble about which Europeans get which bits?

[Dead kate moss]

Aren't we talking about multiculturalism though? I'm confused.

You could try re-reading the thread, but I'll make it quite clear - this crap about multiculturalism is a diversionary, diversive tactic to ease their main purpose of fucking over the less well-off for the benefit of the super-rich.

[uglybob1986]

Well, I think we started it when we invaded and colonized the Falkland Islands, the Malvinas to give them their real name, in the late 18th century. The idea that we have a legitmate territorial claim to an island that is tens of thousands of miles away is absurb, it is as absurd as the Argentinians claiming ownership of the Outer Hebrides. Although I'm no fan of the Argentines is this, they only invaded because they assumed that we wouldn't want to go to war over the scraps of the British Empire. However, it served the short term purposes of the conservative party to have a jolly good war, and it was critical in helping Thatcher win the 1983 general election.

I agreed Thatcher used the war for her own political gain, but she's not that old! Your missing the point by a mile by picking apart my sentences without reading them. If Argentina hadn't invaded the Falklands the option wouldn't have been available to her. Our ownership back then wasn't subject to your opinion it was a fact of diplomacy and international law, and that is all I have to say on the matter unless you want to start a thread that isn't supposed to be about what Cameron and Merkel have recently said.

As Franz Von Papen said, "we will squeeze Hitler so hard that his pips squeek" when he persuaded president Hindenberg to allow him to form a coalition with the Nazi's. A few years later, all his personal staff were dead, and he was replaced by a Nazi in cabinet and made to leave the country of pain of death.

So when did this Nazi cabinet invade Europe all by themselves? Oh that's right it was their Army and Air Force and Navy full of ordinary Germans who did it for them. I stand by my assertion the government is nothing without the common people. Again you missed the point but nice quote!

The prime minister is acting as a cheerleader the EDL, and you think we should chill out? Trust me on this, they will happily go into coaltion with the EDL, BNP, UKIP if it means they can protect the bonuses of the bankers. That is their main priority, and if they have to use fascists to do it, they would. If given a choice between a political ideology that thrives on bigotry, racism and hatred and a political ideology that threatens the rich and power, they will pick the former every time. Don't wait 'til it's too late to start getting concerned.

I will get concerned when people who have got it cushy compared to most of the world think we need to walk like the Egyptians, thank you very much.

The heart of my post was that REAL CUTS were going to hurt REAL PEOPLE. But you ignored that. Is 'it' just starting? Undeniably, it's not 'the politics of fear' to point out the Tories have years left in power and have come out stomping on the poor. But we should just chill out and probably it'll all be ok. 

Yes, we knew that years ago. But is the poor of this country comprised solely of non- white people? Of course not, if the Torys stomp on the poor they'll be stomping on alot of potential supporters that they will need.

You are a silly man.

Sounds more civilised than fuck off for disagreeing, doesn't it? Say what you mean, go on it will feel good

Aren't we talking about multiculturalism though? I'm confused.

That's what I thought, I even agreed a several posts back that I didn't think it was failing. All this talk of the rise of fascism is only valid based on the supposition that Cameron and Merkel were right.

[jutl]

You could try re-reading the thread, but I'll make it quite clear - this crap about multiculturalism is a diversionary, diversive tactic to ease their main purpose of fucking over the less well-off for the benefit of the super-rich.

Doesn't that mean that you don't really have anything to say in this thread though? Stay on topic and discuss South Atlantic foxes.

[NoSleep]

=



When we accept this equation, we can make some progress.

And all acquiesce in your right-wing "we must must look beyond the left-right paradigm" nonsense?

[Dead kate moss]

It's absurd that the both American continents are in the hands of European colonists - why quibble about which Europeans get which bits?

I thought we were talking about multi-culturalism. I'm confused.

[Sovereign]

They won't need to though will they, they could go into a coalition with Labour for that, if needs be.

Sorry, I think you went a little bit too mental for me there, Sov.

It's already going on! The Netherlands and Denmarck are already at this state of affairs, with Geert Wilders Freedom Party propping up the centre-right governemnt, and the Danish People's Party being in cabinet with the Conservative People's Party. Geert Wilders got 15% of the popular vote, and the Danish People's Party got 13.8%, which is more than the Liberal Democrats are currently polling here in the UK. If we had a democratic political system, which we don't, we would've already had this sort of situation arising, the BNP and UKIP combined got way more than this in the euro elections and if we had proportional representation would get this in general elections. This would've already happened in Britain were it not for the first past the post system. Between them the EDL, BNP, English Democrats and UKIP are easily capable of getting 15% of the general population to vote for them, which would make them appealing coalition partners for the Tories once the Lib Dems fuck off and die.

So you can call me mental, biggy can call me a skinhead, I honestly could not give a fuck, coz on this issue I happen to be right.

[jutl]

I thought we were talking about multi-culturalism. I'm confused.

I did that gag two posts ago. Keep up.

[biggytitbo]

You could try re-reading the thread, but I'll make it quite clear - this crap about multiculturalism is a diversionary, diversive tactic to ease their main purpose of fucking over the less well-off for the benefit of the super-rich.

Its even more insidious than that though isnt it? Well all hate the tories and the skinheads and the little englanders and the nimbys and the daily mail readers don't we?  Sadly, were the same as them, as awful a prospect as that may seem we're fucked until we understand that.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

I don't think the Tories will ever be in coalition with BNP or EDL. Perhaps UKIP/English Democrats at a very severe push, if they need to prop up their government and the Liberal Democrats literally dissolve into thin air (could happen). But that would rely on them having some fucking seats wouldn't it?

If you're right and all they care about is securing the financial sector they don't need any of those losers, they could just join teams with Labour and have done with it.

But they don't and none of this will happen.

[biggytitbo]

And all acquiesce in your right-wing "we must must look beyond the left-right paradigm" nonsense?

There's only one divide that means anything in our world, and thats the divide between the gansters who own and run everthing in the world and everyone else they steal from. 'Everyone else' is completly the same. Our inability to understand this, and our endless capacity to find reasons to fight amongst ourself instead of fighting them is why the poor are fucked over in every country in the world, whatever political system they live in.

[Dead kate moss]

Yes, we knew that years ago. But is the poor of this country comprised solely of non- white people? Of course not, if the Torys stomp on the poor they'll be stomping on alot of potential supporters that they will need.

Sadly there are lots of stupid poor that voted Tory a few months back believing the cuts wouldn't be so bad. It's too late now. And if the Tories want to get re-elected, all they need is a crappy Labour leader and some war or diversionary tactic and many of the poor will again vote against their own interests.

Sounds more civilised than fuck off for disagreeing, doesn't it? Say what you mean, go on it will feel good

I don't want you to fuck off, you don't annoy me, and I welcome intelligent disagreement. But you were being silly, so you got told you were being silly. You're contention that we should only start to worry when we are as fucked as the Egyptians, and 'chill out' in the meantime, couldn't be any more silly.


Now fuck off.

[jutl]

There's only one divide that means anything in our world, and thats the divide between the gansters who own and run everthing in the world and everyone else they steal from. 'Everyone else' is completly the same. Our inability to understand this, and our endless capacity to find reasons to fight amongst ourself instead of fighting them is why the poor are fucked over in every country in the world, whatever political system they live in.

I'll sort that out once you stop ending sentences with prepositions.

[jutl]

Sadly there are lots of stupid poor that voted Tory a few months back believing the cuts wouldn't be so bad. It's too late now. And if the Tories want to get re-elected, all they need is a crappy Labour leader and some war or diversionary tactic and many of the poor will again vote against their own interests.

Tell me more about the stupid poor and how the Tories have no respect for them.

[Sovereign]

I don't think the Tories will ever be in coalition with BNP or EDL. Perhaps UKIP/English Democrats at a very severe push, if they need to prop up their government and the Liberal Democrats literally dissolve into thin air (could happen). But that would rely on them having some fucking seats wouldn't it?

If you're right and all they care about is securing the financial sector they don't need any of those losers, they could just join teams with Labour and have done with it.

But they don't and none of this will happen.

Did you know that Berlusconi, up until very recently at least when even the fascists couldn't be seen in public with him, was being kept in power by the likes of Umberto Bossie and Gianfranco Fini, both openly fascists until about the last 3 or 4 years ago. He's reached out to them and encouraged a culture of widepsread racism, bringing in paramilitary immigrant police to attack refugee's and immigrants for example. It's thanks to them he still clings onto power.

The BNP and EDL, no they won't form a coaltion with them, because they won't exist soon enough. The EDL is running out of steam, they haven't increased the numbers of people who are on their marches since last year, their leaders have been arrested for peadophilia and burning korans, the organization as we know it is going to change very soon. They will try and become a political movement of some kind, perhaps with the English Democrats. The BNP is falling apart and is too closely linked to neo-nazism to have a future. It's members will leave it and re-join whatever right-wing political organization supercedes it. In the south of England the Tories will have UKIP as competition, but rather than risk losing their own MP's and their own power to UKIP I expect them to eventually cut an electorical deal with them, whether it be standing down in seats or a First preference Tory second preference UKIP style arrange, it's hard to say at this point, but the scope is there, and it makes sense for the Tories to bring them in, not take them on electorally.

What I see happening is, with an AV or PR polling station, the tories deliberately having low-key campaigning in northern seats that they know they can't win, and, allowing the bastard child of the BNP/EDL/ED to take on Labour. In the south, they'll cut electoral deals with the Lib Dems, or what's left of them, and UKIP. This should make a slim tory majority with lots of crazy right-wing nutters who they can periodically rely on to support them in return for occasional bits of reactionary and racist legislation. This is the pattern emerging all over europe, and the only reason we dont' see it here already is because of the nature of the political system. It will happen though, unless something drastic takes place in the meantime.

[Sovereign]

apologies for poor spelling and grammar, it's hard to make out the screen because of all the froth/spittle that it keeps getting covered in as I type.

[Dead kate moss]

Tell me more about the stupid poor and how the Tories have no respect for them.

No. You just trollin' so I be strollin' on.

[jutl]

No. You just trollin' so I be strollin' on.

I was trying to point out how hypocritical you are being but, bye!

[uglybob1986]

all they need is a crappy Labour leader and some war or diversionary tactic and many of the poor will again vote against their own interests.

They had this at the last election, and they needed a coalition with the LibDems to get in power!

Now fuck off.

WHO be trollin' ?

Now who is being silly? I don't believe I've said anything more ridiculous or offensive on this thread than some of the contributors to the site do on a regular basis, and I don't believe you tell them to fuck off or you would be doing it everyday.

YOU fuck off

[Dead kate moss]

That was a joke, cos you asked me to say it. Don't fuck off x

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Sov, you seem to be predicting this and that. I'd advise calming down, as part of the reason small groups tend to fizzle out is they're poorly organised and even if they have a charismatic leader they rely too much on people with little experience and who can't be relied on to not put their foot in it constantly in the mass media world. And then further, you add into the mix that far-right groups violently disagree on what to be far right about. The EDL claims to despise the BNP. The BNP claims to despise UKIP, UKIP claims to despise the Tories, the English Democrats claim to despise all of them.

They are all natural fringe parties (not the Tories obviously, one can dream)- and by that I mean they are controlled from fringe ideologies and financed by people with vested interests in that specific ideology. They could never, ever merge.

Plus, if the Liberal Democrats exist in the future they always act as a natural buffer, coming 2nd or 3rd in a lot of seats. Even if people don't get on with their wooly ways they will sometimes vote Lib Dem because they think the individual probably isn't a wanker. Mind you, given the evidence of the last few months that may well change....

[uglybob1986]

That was a joke, cos you asked me to say it. Don't fuck off x

Ah, then I'm genuinely sorry! I take things quite literally when they're written down, emoticons usually help!
YOU don't fuck off either ;-D

[Stanley Turbine]

That's a fair point, although I didn't claim we "dispossessed" it off the Argentines, merely that we went there invaded and formed a colony. That colony just happens to be in Argetinian territory now, and we should give it to them, because it is absurb that we still claim sovereignty over a piece of land so far from Britain and so close to Argentina.

How is it "in" Argentine territory? Just because it's the closest country? Should Canada be able to claim Greenland off Denmark because it's closer? Part of the equation has to be what the people who actually live on the land want, surely? The islands have had culturally "British" inhabitants for nearly 200 years.

The "true" name of the Malvinas is just the Spanish version of the original French name anyway, and they colonised the islands first, so maybe they actually belong to France.

[chand]

Here's a comment I got on my blog tonight (for a blog post which had nothing to do with race or immigration or multiculturalism but which went viral and so is getting weirdos):

Here's one very big lie perpetuated. This so called race problem will be solved when the third world pours into every white country and only into white countries. No one demands that Japan or Taiwan solve a race problem by bringing in millions and assimilating i.e.intermarrying with all those non-Japanese or Chinese. A race problem is not being solved. The white race is set up for GENOCIDE. Anti-racist is anti-white.

SO THERE.