If multiculturalism has failed, what next?

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

If I can't get beautiful anonymous Asian women to talk to me I'll have to bed one of these whiteys.

[rudi]

Fuck whitey and all he's done to destroy my brothers.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Have you got one of them vaginas?

[Tokyo Sexwhale]

How is multiculturalism defined?

Is it more than some vague notion that people who have different gods, foods and music should try to get on with each other as they find themselves living in close proximity to each other?

[Johnny Yesno]

So when did this Nazi cabinet invade Europe all by themselves? Oh that's right it was their Army and Air Force and Navy full of ordinary Germans who did it for them. I stand by my assertion the government is nothing without the common people.

Are you familiar with the Milgram Experiment?

[uglybob1986]

Are you familiar with the Milgram Experiment?

Very familiar, and I believe it proves my point. If the subjects of the experiment had ignored/ refused to cooperate with the "scientists" the results would have been different, just as if the proletariat of Germany had ignored/ refused to cooperate the Holocaust wouldn't have happened, regardless of the wishes of the ruling class. Just as we are not on the cusp of slipping into Nazi like dronery, merely because the PM (possibly only until the next election, unless you think we'll lose our right to vote before then) believes that his perception of multiculturalism (whatever his perception is) has failed.
All of these comparisons to Nazi Germany (I didn't make them) and the Milgram experiment are totally unnecessary unless you agree with Cameron and Merkel that miulticulturalism has failed, and as I previously stated, I don't. Do you agree with the PM, all of a sudden?

[Zero Gravitas]

...I thought the whole point was that social influence is very hard to resist particularly when the instructions are delivered form a figure of clear authority, ignoring or refusing to cooperate in such situations isn't as stress-free or as obvious a resolution as you might ordinarily think.

[uglybob1986]

...I thought the whole point was that social influence is very hard to resist particularly when the instructions are delivered form a figure of clear authority, ignoring or refusing to cooperate in such situations isn't as stress-free or as obvious a resolution as you might ordinarily think.

It is if you don't consider yourself or the rest of society to be drones, crushed under the weight of peer pressure and authority.

All of these comparisons to Nazi Germany (I didn't make them) and the Milgram experiment are totally unnecessary unless you agree with Cameron and Merkel that miulticulturalism has failed, and as I previously stated, I don't. Do you agree with the PM, all of a sudden?

Does no-one want to answer this?

[Zero Gravitas]

It's an uncomfortable possibility, it needn't be stated quite so darkly but at the same time as Milgram was trying to disprove there was nothing special about 1930s Germans.

If the reading of it being "the politics of multiculturalism has failed" is the right one, think the reverse is true, the reality of social harmony is never perfect and it never can be, saying that the impetus to try or to have a top-down effort to encourage it is a failure is obviously wrong looking back at the improvements in acceptance over just a few decades.

[Saucer51]

Multiculturalism sounds lovely and dreamy but it has failed here and interestingly, all across the equally fair and free Western Europe. When you allow a high number of adherents to a vastly differing culture into your nation it's impossible to avoid huge  problems. Law-making, teaching science and education in general, gender and sexuality equality. These are all highly divisive issues. And I've been trying to think of a country, either now or in the past, where two or more separate cultures of equal numbers existed peacefully under one rule without descending into civil war. Even the good, easy going people on either side would be swept along and forced to choose sides. I'd be interested if anyone can come up with examples of cultural harmony.
BTW, this is about culture, not race. Races mix, cultures with great differences do not.

[uglybob1986]

If the reading of it being "the politics of multiculturalism has failed" is the right one, think the reverse is true, the reality of social harmony is never perfect and it never can be, saying that the impetus to try or to have a top-down effort to encourage it is a failure is obviously wrong looking back at the improvements in acceptance over just a few decades.

Then I think we may be in agreement. I never stated I agreed with the PM, exactly the opposite. I also submitted my opinion that the concepts of equality and civil rights were less open to misinterpretation than the concept of multiculturalism, even if the latter had failed.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Back to the points- what was multiculturalism supposed to be- and if it has failed, does it matter? And what's the next bright idea?

I mean, when people keep repeating it, what are they actually hoping to achieve other than stirring up racial tension?

[Dead kate moss]

I mean, when people keep repeating it, what are they actually hoping to achieve other than stirring up racial tension?

Distraction.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Why pick something so sensitive then?

[Dusty Gozongas]

When you allow a high number of adherents to a vastly differing culture into your nation it's impossible to avoid huge  problems. Law-making, teaching science and education in general, gender and sexuality equality. These are all highly divisive issues.

the biggest flaw is that the lawmakers and educators have further exacerbated those problems by not making it plain from day one that these rules and standards are to be held inclusively for the entire population.

[Zero Gravitas]

And I've been trying to think of a country, either now or in the past, where two or more separate cultures of equal numbers existed peacefully under one rule without descending into civil war.

Your thinking seems to be concentrating on where there is a clash of cultures and where there is an existing tension, looking for examples of equally powerful cultural positions that exist in the same nation where at the same time they're strongly separated? You're begging the question that there's division between the two.

[Dusty Gozongas]

I mean, when people keep repeating it, what are they actually hoping to achieve other than stirring up racial tension?

Equality under the law?

[Dead kate moss]

Why pick something so sensitive then?

I think whipping up some racial tension is an aim too. The way Cameron has done it is one part 'common sense' ie everyone should agree that certain bad things are bad, and one part picking on the non-whites - they are the ones who have to prove they are ok. And the whole subject is one that will make the top of the news, shunting the libraries protests to the bottom, as happened yesterday.

[Johnny Yesno]

It is if you don't consider yourself or the rest of society to be drones, crushed under the weight of peer pressure and authority.

What ZG said. The point of Milgram was that it wasn't just the psychos and weak willed that could be encouraged to do things against their own morality. In fact, that experiment has ethical issues arising from the fact that some of the participants never truly got over having it demonstrated to them that they were effectively no better than torturers.

And even if you are of exceptional strength of character, doesn't it bother you that huge numbers of those normal people with inferior strength of character are so easy to manipulate?

Does no-one want to answer this?

I don't follow your logic. I don't have to think multiculturalism has failed myself to fear that the PM saying it has failed might give the green light to nutjobs like the EDL.

[Johnny Yesno]

I've been trying to think of a country, either now or in the past, where two or more separate cultures of equal numbers existed peacefully under one rule without descending into civil war.

Singapore.

[sirhenry]

The early United States (a mix of religious fundamentalists, liberals, revolutionaries and disposessed poor).

[Dead kate moss]

It's hard to think of anywhere with 'separate cultures of equal numbers' but is that the point? This country is multi-cultural and there are not race riots, everyone gets along as well as humans are capable of. The important thing about this mix, as opposed to a sterile all-white country, and I can't stress this enough, is that it enables me to fuck pretty women of every hue.

[rudi]

Multiculturalism sounds lovely and dreamy but it has failed here and interestingly, all across the equally fair and free Western Europe.

For a failure, I can't help feeling it's largely gone very well indeed.

[Johnny Yesno]

For a failure, I can't help feeling it's largely gone very well indeed.

Yes, I'd say we have twat problems rather than cultural problems.

[Dusty Gozongas]

The way Cameron has done it is one part 'common sense' ie everyone should agree that certain bad things are bad, and one part picking on the non-whites - they are the ones who have to prove they are ok.

I haven't heard the speech but I'll wager he wasn't talking about Hindus, Sikhs, Afro-Caribbeans or Chinese. It's pretty obvious what he's referring to and the best New Labour can come up with is some nonsense along the lines of "but what about non-violent extremism?". WTF? It's obvious what he's referring to.

[Dusty Gozongas]

The important thing about this mix, as opposed to a sterile all-white country, and I can't stress this enough, is that it enables me to fuck pretty women of every hue.

It's not working so well for the good Moslem boys though, is it? The poor bastards have to stick to white girls before marriage. Islam is well fucked up!

[Dead kate moss]

I haven't heard the speech but I'll wager he wasn't talking about Hindus, Sikhs, Afro-Caribbeans or Chinese. It's pretty obvious what he's referring to and the best New Labour can come up with is some nonsense along the lines of "but what about non-violent extremism?". WTF? It's obvious what he's referring to.

Yup, point taken. Thank God the Lib-Dems are in power too and are rightly kicking up a no wait a minute never mind

[Johnny Yesno]

the best New Labour can come up with is some nonsense along the lines of "but what about non-violent extremism?"

They use the term "non-violent extremism", do they? I'd like to see where they said that.

[Shuggie]

I guess the governments new approach will be integrationalism, and using its influence to that end. I'm not sure this need be a bad thing, America is highly integrationist and yet also extols personal freedom and doesn't interfere with people practising their faith.

Attitudes to free speech and equality need to be universal in the public space, your belief is not a free pass to go against these shared principals, in addition there are certain things required to participate in society, being able to read and write and speak english is necessary not optional.

Finally those of faith need to reconcile themselves to the society they live in, and the rights of those who don't belive in their faith, even if that means that their faith is criticised or even mocked, it will not be afforded special privileges over any other matter.

[Dusty Gozongas]

Here y'go JY...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12376304

Nonsense, wouldn't you agree?