Points-based immigration system [Split topic]

[flotemysost]

Half the people walking around central London these days look like they don't know why they're here, or even what country they're in. Even Kensington High St. feels like an open asylum.

If you're talking about places where you see lots of foreigners walking around looking a bit confused then yes, you could be describing any touristy area.

However I used to work for a lettings agents with portfolios in Kensington and strangely enough, we didn't get many tenancy applications from immigrants working in grilled chicken shops.

My last boss was Indian, as was most of the workforce. All bright people with an in-built understanding of English custom and etiquette.

Hahaha fucking hell. 'I'd like to get a refund on this Indian coworker please, yeah I think it's missing the 'in-built understanding of English custom and etiquette' feature? Keeps bringing in curry for lunch and talking in a funny language.'

[bgmnts]

Sony Walkman to be an ex patriot eating bangers and mash in a british pub in spain in 20 years.

[Cuellar]

Sony Walkman to be an ex patriot immigrant wandering around looking like he doesn't know why he's there with no in-built understanding of Spanish customs and etiquette eating bangers and mash in a british pub in spain in 20 years.

[bgmnts]

Thanks for spelling it out butt!

[Cuellar]

Plaisir

[poodlefaker]

Wiser heads just want to see people living and working here who understand the lay of the land without being put on a training course.

We say "lie of the land" in this country, old love. How's your inbuilt understanding?

[Sony Walkman Prophecies]

Are we not "the public"?  Do we not have hands, organs, dimensions, senses, affections, passions; fed with the same food, hurt with the same weapons, subject to the same diseases, healed by the same means, warmed and cooled by the same winter and summer as the public is?

Ask yourself who is amplifying this voice you hear so loudly.

I'm not saying migrants aren't human (a pretty odd implication to make), just that I think a points-based immigration system is a step in the direction. I do not wish to live an internationalist free-for-all as you do. Although a nice idea in principle, the chaos of every third world person crowding into the major cities of the world would be an economic and socialist disaster. Almost unthinkable.

Regardless of who is in charge, there will be some kind of system come what may: I'm sure even Corbyn wouldn't have been cavalier enough to have eradicated visa and border controls. Even the far-left recognise you can't put principles over outcomes every time.

[Sony Walkman Prophecies]

We say "lie of the land" in this country, old love. How's your inbuilt understanding?

"Anyway, it didn't appeal to me, so once I got the lay of the land I got out of that territory quickly." (Vanity Fair)

[bgmnts]

We'd all agree its a step in the direction.

Of a right wing future dystopia nationalist state.

[Buelligan]

A goose step, perhaps.

I'm not saying migrants aren't human (a pretty odd implication to make), just that I think a points-based immigration system is a step in the direction. I do not wish to live an internationalist free-for-all as you do. Although a nice idea in principle, the chaos of every third world person crowding into the major cities of the world would be an economic and socialist disaster. Almost unthinkable.

Regardless of who is in charge, there will be some kind of system come what may: I'm sure even Corbyn wouldn't have been cavalier enough to have eradicated visa and border controls. Even the far-left recognise you can't put principles over outcomes every time.

I didn't make that implication, although you just did. 

My implication was that you were speaking, presumably to all of "us", about "the public" as if we do not belong to that group and need its culture, its thoughts, explained to "us" by you. 

[New folder]

Even turned down by a fraudster. fml

Fraudster? I'm an honest geezette, I swear. These are authentic Points, straight from Australia. Know a guy there. They call him Rupert. Fresh off the boat, they are. Tippex off the kangaroo and they're good to go. 9 out of 10 Tories can't tell the difference.

[Sony Walkman Prophecies]

My implication was that you were speaking, presumably to all of "us", about "the public" as if we do not belong to that group and need its culture, its thoughts, explained to "us" by you.

Oh okay. I wasn't implying that, no.

[Zetetic]

I'm not saying migrants aren't human (a pretty odd implication to make), just that I think a points-based immigration system is a step in the direction.

How does it compare to the previous system for those from outside of the EU?

What's good about points specifically?

[tourism]

I'm not saying migrants aren't human (a pretty odd implication to make), just that I think a points-based immigration system is a step in the direction. I do not wish to live an internationalist free-for-all as you do. Although a nice idea in principle, the chaos of every third world person crowding into the major cities of the world would be an economic and socialist disaster. Almost unthinkable.

Regardless of who is in charge, there will be some kind of system come what may: I'm sure even Corbyn wouldn't have been cavalier enough to have eradicated visa and border controls. Even the far-left recognise you can't put principles over outcomes every time.

the hooting gibbon swings from the chandelier, mentioning an exasperating time it had with its fash-y mate in an effort to come across as a reasonable, common-sense pragmatist, faintly embarrassed by both sides. and then it posts your post!

[Shit Good Nose]

What's good about points specifically?

Prizes.

[Zetetic]

I ask because the force of "points-based immigration system" seems to be "an immigration system like Australia" and exactly what that means then also needs unpacking, particularly given the extent to which the UK doesn't resemble Australia.

(Notably it doesn't seem to mean much positive, and the points-based bit of their system requires an awful lot of hackery to deliver the economic outcomes that they want.)

[Blumf]

It's a fig leaf of impartial objectiveness, isn't it?

"Sorry mate, nothing personal, just your points aren't up to it. Nowt racist or anything, you see."

[Cardenio I]

Even Waitrose sells turkey sausages these days. There's only so much people can take.

[jobotic]

I'm going to the pub on Thursday and I'm looking forward to saying to the bloke at the next urinal "pints based irrigation system , eh?"

Legend

[Zetetic]

It's a fig leaf of impartial objectiveness, isn't it?

Previous system was much along those lines, as well, wasn't it?

[Cold Meat Platter]

Even Waitrose sells turkey sausages these days. There's only so much people can take.

I just saw hot dogs made out of ham in tesco. YES HAM.
Hot hot hot hot hot ham dogs.

[TheBrownBottle]

I ask because the force of "points-based immigration system" seems to be "an immigration system like Australia" and exactly what that means then also needs unpacking, particularly given the extent to which the UK doesn't resemble Australia.

(Notably it doesn't seem to mean much positive, and the points-based bit of their system requires an awful lot of hackery to deliver the economic outcomes that they want.)

It strikes me as an easy camouflage to a potentially racist system.  For plenty of older Britons, the 'White Australia' policy (which came to an end in the mid-'70s) along with turning gunships on migrant boats are A Good Thing.  Also points suggests worth or value to them.  Like in rugby or Play Your Cards Right.

They are unlikely to be aware that the points system is there to encourage immigration; that actually 'low paid' workers make up a huge chunk of the migrant numbers.  Their beloved 'Indian doctors' (I'm not a racist, see?) schtick is validated by a points system - yet the vast majority of immigrants from Asia to Australia aren't doctors etc.  They'd wet their Union Jack-themed knickers if they actually saw the immigration numbers here in Oz.

Ultimately, they'll quickly find that what rampant, untempered capitalism cares about is low wages, not where the average worker was born.  Most of the Tory cabinet are libertarian lunatics.  They'll find a way to import even cheaper Labour than that provided by the EU (they'll have to; they're not going to have the numbers in the UK to fill the lost jobs), and massage the figures. 

[Blumf]

Previous system was much along those lines, as well, wasn't it?

Was it? Can you explain it as simply as shouting out 'Points!'?

[hummingofevil]

Hi. Just looked at this and I would get 70 points. It would be higher but my post-graduate STEM degree is only a Masters and not a PhD and as Physics teacher I qualify as supply shortage. The fun bit? My take home salary doesn't even hit the lower limit this year (I've made myself constantly available for work and after a quiet September done 4-5 days a week). But no work = no pay so the 15 weeks or so I have done I have earned about £8k. Now assume I get roughly the same amount of work before summer and you do the math!

Agency work in shortage areas will be fucked by these rules. I know of plenty of non-UK nationals who end up as supply as the don't quite get appointed. They do a grand job for shit money that gets skimmed off (well more like chunked off) by the agencies.

[TheBrownBottle]

Agency work in shortage areas will be fucked by these rules. I know of plenty of non-UK nationals who end up as supply as the don't quite get appointed. They do a grand job for shit money that gets skimmed off (well more like chunked off) by the agencies.

This is a massive part of the problem, and explains the short-sighted stupidity of some of the Brexit mob.

They want British workers to fill jobs rather than foreign workers - but if there is a skills shortage already, then that tells anyone with grey matter between their ears that there aren't enough trained Brits to do those jobs.  Telling EU workers to get fucked is unlikely to resolve the issue.  Perhaps if Brexit brigade voted in a govt who'd actually fund the training required, that would be a start - though of course it would take years even then to meet the numbers required - but they won't, as they'll continue to vote Tory/UKIP/BP.  And no Tory govt in history has ever ploughed anything like the funds required into the education system.

[weekender]

Hi. Just looked at this and I would get 70 points.

Hi.  Just looked at this and got 74 points.

Bit disappointed in myself to be honest, I thought I would score myself higher.

[bgmnts]

15 points here.

I get an extra 5 points for knowing every line of 'We Didn't Start the Fire'.

[weekender]

Give yourself 30 more if you can add 'Ryan' to the lyrics.

[bgmnts]

English Premier League fucked now.

[TheBrownBottle]

English Premier League fucked now.

Probably not.  Exceptions are usually made for sportspeople.  Besides, at present British clubs can't sign non-EU players unless they can be shown to be of an international standard; so a club cannot sign some shit-hot Brazilian wunderkind unless they're part of the Brazilian national team (usually having been capped).  I don't doubt the govt will tweak the rules again to suit.  UEFA regs re 'homegrown' players for UEFA competitions are the only thing to be concerned about.