Near Death Experiences: A Dummies' Guide

[Papa Wheelie]

Beauty of dog is he doesn't waste his time shitting himself about NOTHING like an ape.

[Jack Shaftoe]

Bored in a hotel room this morning with nothing better to do so:

I've now read nearly every Near Death Experience on NDERF, having a brilliant time, spotted loads of weird little patterns*. I really want that hypnotherapy where all your past lives bubble up to the surface. I'm in deep, lads. Like, I'm taking the piss, but I'm also totally up for it.

The whole psychic/medium thing is interesting but in a different, like the insincerity comes through almost instantly in a way it rarely does for me when people recount their NDE experiences. I know a few people who've had a stranger tell them stuff they just couldn't have known, like this is stuff that's not on social media, they've never told another person and it doesn't make sense at all. But yes, a whole load of shysters preying on the grief of the vulnerable through cold readings, teams backstage working though social media, all that.

* moments from your life being presented to you in flat 2D forms, like tarot cards or (as the accounts become more recent) phone screens. The word 'carousel' comes up a  lot. Also fairly regularly, people meeting three 'divine beings', separate from deceased people.

[tdurbo]

This is a great post.  Thanks.

Sorry that's all I had to contribute. The other thing that changed from that moment onwards and is still true to this day is that I completely lost my fear of heights. Which means I've been places and done things I never would've done, mainly things that someone would a heart condition probably shouldn't be doing. Mountain and rock climbing for example. Also, a fair few foods I'd liked all my life I now find disgusting.

Apologies for another post that adds nothing.

[shiftwork2]

I'm a bit confused - my comment wasn't sarcasm.

Sorry that's all I had to contribute. The other thing that changed from that moment onwards and is still true to this day is that I completely lost my fear of heights. Which means I've been places and done things I never would've done, mainly things that someone would a heart condition probably shouldn't be doing. Mountain and rock climbing for example. Also, a fair few foods I'd liked all my life I now find disgusting.

Apologies for another post that adds nothing.

[PlanktonSideburns]

I also loved that post.

[Jack Shaftoe]

Yes, it was really interesting, with the food thing being particularly intriguing, not heard of that before.

I've read an absolute shitload of books about NDEs now, sidelining into stuff about past life regressions (benefits of being able to order library books online with the actual library about a minute away from my house). Brian Weiss, Delores Cannon, Raymond Moody, I've read (or am reading) them all. I'm spotting a fun, and I suppose quite predictable pattern in these tomes.

BOOK ONE: surprisingly straightforward accounts of Weird Shit. 'I interviewed these people about their their experiences while they were clinically dead, none of whom were obviously mad, and this is what they had to say'/'I was regressing this woman into her childhood via hypnotherapy and on a whim thought I'd go back before her birth and now I have a load of surprisingly consistent accounts of previous existences, which may of course be made up, but they're interesting nonetheless'

BOOK TWO: 'Erm, wasn't really expecting that first book to take off as it did, okay, here's some more accounts I didn't have room for first time round or left out because they were a bit too weird'. Interestingly, Elisabeth Kübler-Ross' second book is basically the chapter of weird stuff her publishers encouraged her to leave out of her first book 'On Death And Dying'. They were probably right to do so, as ODAD is a highly regarded and very serious book on our social and medical attitudes to death, whereas On Life After Death covers near death experiences, out of body experiences and a bit where EKB has a nice chat with a woman who had actually properly died some time before and yet walks down a corridor with her into her office and even writes her name out on a bit of paper.

BOOK THREE AND BEYOND: 'Here's a load of stuff about what the secret Masters of the afterlife thing we should be doing, maybe cancer can be cured with positive thinking, have to be a bit careful about how I put that for legal reasons, obviously, also Atlantis was real.' This is where I sense the hand of the publisher or a spouse creeping in as they realise there's actual money to be made here so why not just any old nonsense that might sell.

My family have started reading bits of my pile of spooky woo library books out in silly voices. My wife apologised for taking the piss, but I'm like please keep taking the piss, there's a core of stuff here that's fascinating, but I'm all too aware a lot of it is straight up nonsense and I need to be a bit tethered to reality, thanks.

Here are the generally accepted stages of a full-on near death experience:

A sense/awareness of being dead.
A sense of peace, well-being, painlessness and other positive emotions. A sense of removal from the world.
An intense feeling of unconditional love and acceptance.Experiencing euphoric environments.
An out-of-body experience. A perception of one's body from an outside position, sometimes observing medical professionals performing resuscitation efforts.
A "tunnel experience" or entering a darkness. A sense of moving up, or through, a passageway or staircase.
A rapid movement toward and/or sudden immersion in a powerful light (or "Being(s) of Light" or "Being(s) dressed in white") which communicate telepathically with the person.
Being reunited with deceased loved ones.
Receiving a life review, commonly referred to as "seeing one's life flash before one's eyes".
Approaching a border or a decision by oneself or others to return to one's body, often accompanied by a reluctance to return.
Suddenly finding oneself back inside one's body.
Connection to the cultural beliefs held by the individual, which seem to dictate some of the phenomena experienced in the NDE, but more so affects the later interpretation thereof.

Turns out my daughter's friend's mum is a qualified hypnotherapist, I had no idea. Her website suggests it's all very practical stuff, for giving up smoking, panic attacks and all that (the much-missed sick as a pike used hypnotherapy to get over his fear of flying and it worked more or less instantly, it was very impressive), so I'm having a coffee with her, ostensibly to research a script, which is true, but also I want to discreetly say 'so what do you reckon to all the past life regression stuff then?'

[Jack Shaftoe]

Yep I think I'd be more convinced by similarities between accounts if at least some of them came from people who'd definitely never heard of near death experiences or read anything about them before, but that's virtually impossible.

Are there any cultural or geographic patterns? I'm thinking of another recent thread where someone posted about how when sufferers of schizophrenia hear voices, in some countries/cultures they tend to be frightening, negative and destructive, but in others they're the voices of dead loved ones or "kind spirits" and are more protective. Be interesting to see if there's any similar variations to NDEs.

Sorry, I know this was ages ago, but just to respond:

There's plenty of NDE accounts from kids whose parents swear they've never heard about them before, yet tick all the NDE boxes, and people who didn't know anything about them (beyond maybe 'going into a light') yet talk about life reviews, meeting deceased relatives/friends (oddly sometimes it's people you weren't even that close to) lots of detailed stuff that meshes with the surprisingly 'standard' NDE.

With cultural patterns, what's interesting is how your culture doesn't seem to affect the NDE experience directly, but it definitely affects how its experienced or filtered in the telling. Meeting a wise figure who the recounter describes as Jesus or Allah or whatever, but when asked if they are Jesus, usually responds along the lines of 'sure, why not?'. Beings of light who get described as 'angels' if the recounter is religious but never have wings or halos or anything like that.

NDEs do seem to be almost universally positive, it's extremely rare to get a bad/hellish one, and of course tempting to write those off as 'not proper' NDEs but the subconscious playing up/a bad trip. Most people report them as being entirely positive. Even when you have a life review of all the bad things you've done, it's so you can learn from them/feel empathy for the people you've affected rather than be punished. Another common aspect is being told religion has got it really wrong, there's absolutely no hell, and in fact existence on earth is the closest thing to hell that exists.

I'm not particularly desperate for an NDE, by the way. Regression into past lives though, yes please, very up for that.

[dontpaintyourteeth]

ABSOLUTE TERROR FIELD

[Icehaven]

The idea of reincarnation is quite scary, given the odds of coming back as someone in a much worse situation. Much like an afterlife I don't see how it's actually possible but  who the fuck am I to say.

[McDead]

I am really enjoying this thread, and it has changed my mind about NDEs. The consistency of experience, across ages, cultures, continents, is what really intrigues. I am also motivated to try and achieve this state through meditation, if possible.

[McDead]

Lol @ my username

[JaDanketies]

I've seen a carousel with my dead relatives on it on DMT. It was a bit like this scene (from 55 seconds), except for not scary and with my dead relatives instead. Similar decor tho, golden with mirrors

[Jack Shaftoe]

I would love to be able to meditate without falling asleep. I wonder if it doesn't help that I have aphantasia (difficulty creating any kind of mental image), so all that 'you are in a lovely forest' stuff just slides past me, but if I just have a soothing voice to go on, I fall asleep within seconds.  Possibly I have no inner self, I have had to consider that.

I've seen a carousel with my dead relatives on it on DMT. It was a bit like this scene (from 55 seconds), except for not scary and with my dead relatives instead. Similar decor tho, golden with mirrors

Yeah, the colour gold comes up a lot, it's weird. It does sound like DMT gets you a bit of the way there. I've never done any kind of hallucinogen, mainly because if I do have have any kind of weird experience I want to be 100% sure it's not the result of shrooming my face off the night before or something, but it is tempting.

[Jack Shaftoe]

Lol @ my username

I did lol at that.

[madhair60]

I wonder if it doesn't help that I have aphantasia

i can't even imagine that.

[Jack Shaftoe]

I can't imagine not having it - all these weirdos going round with images in their head, reading books and 'seeing' things instead of hearing/feeling them, mental. My dreams are perfectly visual though, no problem there, I just can't summon images consciously. The best bit is trying to navigate somewhere with a map, thinking 'yep, that's got it, I know where I am', then I put the map down and it's all 'nope, I am lost again'.

[madhair60]

sorry, i was just doing a hilarious "bit"

[PlanktonSideburns]

Hillarious was it

[Jack Shaftoe]

I did wonder, but then I decided to err on the side of sincerity, like Jesus would. Also, going to crush your throwaway jocularity into the ground now, I can imagine loads, I just can't visualise easily, if at all.

[PlanktonSideburns]

Hillarious was it

A 'bit' it was is it

Doing one of them were you

Is that a thing you do madhair is it?

[Ray Travez]

I am also motivated to try and achieve this state through meditation, if possible.

I heard from a reliable source that it's entirely possible, OBEs, NDE-mimicking experiences, the whole bit. Mind you, this was from someone who loved meditating, basically dedicated their life to it for some years as a Buddhist monk, so it may take a bit of time and commitment.

[McDead]

I heard from a reliable source that it's entirely possible, OBEs, NDE-mimicking experiences, the whole bit. Mind you, this was from someone who loved meditating, basically dedicated their life to it for some years as a Buddhist monk, so it may take a bit of time and commitment.

Interesting. I was quite heavily into meditation a year or so ago and once encountered a tiger during a meditative state. I knew for certain - somehow - that the tiger was my envy made manifest, and I had to find a way to make peace with it. Came out of my meditation feeling completely transformed, lighter, happier. Very odd.

[madhair60]

Hillarious was it

A 'bit' it was is it

Doing one of them were you

Is that a thing you do madhair is it?

haha, yeah

[Cuntbeaks]

What about the stories of people dying and experiencing absolutely nothing before being brought back to life?

You would think that the process of dying and therefore NDEs would be fairly consistent for everyone, so I wonder why some folk get the full Imax experience while others get nothing at all.

[PlanktonSideburns]

God hates some

[Jack Shaftoe]

They simply weren't dead enough. It is interesting though.

[PlanktonSideburns]

maybe it takes a bit to kick in

[PlanktonSideburns]

maybe pratchet style its the heaven you want that you get, and some people just need a bit of peace and quiet

[JaDanketies]

Flouride in the water calcified their pineal gland / third eye

[Jack Shaftoe]

What I'm thinking about a lot is people turning up to a meadow/beautiful forest/garden/whatever and being met by a deceased relative/being of light who says 'it's not your time' or 'you shouldn't be here'. And then they get sent back, which, with respect, suggests a ramshackle setup at best. Or people have a nice chat with someone who's sort-of-Jesus, who says 'Right, time to come with me into the great beyond!' but the person remembers they've left family behind so the sort-of-Jesus says 'Ugh, fine, whatever' and the person wakes up in their body again.

There seems to be a lot of slack in the system is all I'm saying, which I actually quite like, it's somehow more convincing than everything being perfect and ineffable, but I'll be honest, I'm already trying to work out if you can game it somehow.

Now reading 'After: A Doctor Explores What Near-Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond', by Bruce Greyson. It's nice and straightforward and  without woo, but loads of the 'How the hell did this person know that?' moments, which I crave.