Fantastic 4

[Head Gardener]

Read that as Shite Is Coming, I saw this tonight and to be honest it was not even a little bit Fantastic,
and wasn't even as good as the last Fantastic 4. It was a packed screening too and at the end folk
were actually

Spoiler alert

booing

[close]

and mumbling

Spoiler alert

"well that was shit"

[close]

etc, and I agree, it is the weakest of the
Marvel films so far and to cap it all

Spoiler alert

no Stan Lee cameo

[close]

and

Spoiler alert

no little trailer bit on the end

[close]

I can't even be arsed to describe how rubbish it was, it's just really disappointing.

[Delete Delete Delete]

Its not part of the Marvel cinematic universe, its a Fox production.

[Head Gardener]

it has the flickery Marvel bits at the start

[Delete Delete Delete]

They all do. There still all Marvel licensed characters.

[Head Gardener]

well it tarnishs the Marvel brand (for what thats worth - $5 billion?)

[Dr Rock]

As a massive Fantastic Four fan I want this turd to die so I'm glad people were booing. Then Marvel can have the property and hopefully do it right. Even if one isn't a fan of the FF you would want Dr Doom back in the proper Marvel movies fold.

[Delete Delete Delete]

Marvel have effectively buried Fantastic 4, canceling both the 616 title and the ultimate universe title, they won't be coming back very soon in the post Secret Wars universe.

[BritishHobo]

As a massive Fantastic Four fan I want this turd to die so I'm glad people were booing. Then Marvel can have the property and hopefully do it right. Even if one isn't a fan of the FF you would want Dr Doom back in the proper Marvel movies fold.

Why, though? Marvel have more than enough characters to be getting on with, and their villains are always shite. I've seen a lot of people say it's because they don't have their good villains, they don't have Dr. Doom or the surfer bloke, or Doctor Magnets, or any of Spider-Man's mates, but it's bollocks. By that logic, no movie that doesn't feature superpowered characters can ever have a compelling antagonist. Marvel don't need their other properties back, they just need to stop putting out films that are 'good enough' and start putting out films that are 'good'.

[Dr Rock]

I'm just a massive fan. The first Marvel comic I ever saw and all that. I love all the characters and Dr Doom and Dragon-Man and Klaw and Aunt Petunia and the Yancy Street Gang and Diablo who even Stan Lee who invented him says is crap. But I understand that Dr Doom seems to be more popular as a villain than the FF are... and was most screwed up in the previous adaptation. I heard they've cancelled the comic, I don't read the comics anymore, people don't want the Human Torch and mole-people anymore that's their loss. I do want to see another shot at the Fantastic Four movie that gets the tone right. I also want to see all the other Marvel characters done too. But done well of course. But especially the Fantastic Four.

[Dr Rock]

and their villains are always shite.

Which ones?

[Glebe]

wasn't even as good as the last Fantastic 4.

*ULP!*

It appears to be getting a raft of terrible reviews.

[Carpool Dragon]

An account of the atrocity:

Spoiler alert

"It's clobbering time" is something Ben Grimm's abusive brother used to say before he slapped him about.

[close]

Spoiler alert

Sample dialogue.
Victor (pre-transformation): I think the whole world should come to an end.
Susan (sarcastic): Listen to Dr. Doom here.

[close]

Yee-ikes.

[BritishHobo]

I kinda like that first spoiler. I think it's knowing in an interesting way.

Bring it on, fuckos.

[Custard]

An account of the atrocity:

Spoiler alert

"It's clobbering time" is something Ben Grimm's abusive brother used to say before he slapped him about.

[close]

Spoiler alert

Sample dialogue.
Victor (pre-transformation): I think the whole world should come to an end.
Susan (sarcastic): Listen to Dr. Doom here.

[close]

Yee-ikes.

Oh blimey. It does kinda make me wanna see it now, though!

[madhair60]

Why, though? Marvel have more than enough characters to be getting on with, and their villains are always shite.

I love you but this is actual drivel.

Great things have been done with Kingpin, Arnim Zola, Kang the Conqueror, Doctor Octopus and Mandarin - and recently, at that.  They don't have anyone as compelling as, say, The Joker (and it kills me to admit that!) though.

Interesting to hear from a big FF fan because - and I don't mean this as an insult - I didn't know they existed.  For something as important to Marvel's formative years as FF, it seems to coast by unnoticed most of the time.  I don't think they even have a book out right now, though Reed Richards is obviously active in the Marvel U for Secret Wars.

Can you recommend any FF in particular?  All I have is a chunk of the Mark Waid run (from the Graphic Novel Collection partwork thing) and the first two volumes of Ultimate FF (which are very good).

[ajsmith]

Worth seeing for the Heidecker cameo alone?

[Dr Rock]

Can you recommend any FF in particular?

The first 100 issues, the Lee/Kirby stuff - they really get cracking in the 40-50s with the introduction if the Inhumans, Silver Surfer & Galactus. Kirby's art becomes phenomenal at this stage too. Then the next 100 issues are ok too, well I liked it all at the time, especially when John Buscema is doing the art. The second golden period was John Byrne's 1980's run. I think these are all easy to get in reprinted formats.

Hot shaving action!


Byrne

[Bad Ambassador]

I'm going to rewatch the musical version from Arrested Development.

#I'm gonna stomp all over your face!#

[Tiny Poster]

I love you but this is actual drivel.

Great things have been done with Kingpin, Arnim Zola, Kang the Conqueror, Doctor Octopus and Mandarin - and recently, at that.  They don't have anyone as compelling as, say, The Joker (and it kills me to admit that!) though.

Interesting to hear from a big FF fan because - and I don't mean this as an insult - I didn't know they existed.  For something as important to Marvel's formative years as FF, it seems to coast by unnoticed most of the time.  I don't think they even have a book out right now, though Reed Richards is obviously active in the Marvel U for Secret Wars.

Can you recommend any FF in particular?  All I have is a chunk of the Mark Waid run (from the Graphic Novel Collection partwork thing) and the first two volumes of Ultimate FF (which are very good).

You can't go wrong with the Waid run. And I know it's not THE Four, but read Matt Fraction and Mike Allred's FF run, I was gutted when it got cancelled.


A lot's been said about Marvel's Ike Perlmutter trying to kill the Fantastic Four as a property, but this overlooks the facts that the characters have been at the centre of an ongoing story at the centre of the Marvel universe by their flagship writer Jonathan Hickman , an eight-year saga just now culminating in a grand climax which is (supposedly) reshaping the Marvel universe. That, along with the fact that Fantastic Four comics don't actually sell that much no matter which names are working on them, suggests the cancellation isn't motivated purely out of 1%er spite.

[BlodwynPig]

As a massive Fantastic Four fan I want this turd to die so I'm glad people were booing. Then Marvel can have the property and hopefully do it right. Even if one isn't a fan of the FF you would want Dr Doom back in the proper Marvel movies fold.

HA HA HA - LET ME HAVE A GO, LET ME HAVE A GO, I CAN MAKE A COMIC FILM WITH AMAZING SPECIAL EFFECTS BETTER THAN YOU!

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

That Miles Teller seems absurdly bland. I haven't seen Whiplash, or anything else he's been in, though.

[checkoutgirl]

they just need to stop putting out films that are 'good enough' and start putting out films that are 'good'.

I think they do put out films that are 'good'. It's just that we are a bit spoiled these days for nicely put together super hero films. You may say the Marvel films are samey and I agree, Captain America 2 was the one where I realised that I was tiring of this format. But all the same, what a format!! Decent scripts and plots with special effects that have really caught up with comic books.

The only 2 problems I can see are fatigue with super power based films, there's been an awful lot of them lately. And secondly the fact that 99% super heroes are for kids or have their origin in being made for kids. They are simple ideas personified. But most of these films are aimed at adults and have adult themes projected onto them. What are you really going to learn about the human condition with Tony Stark or Bruce Banner? Not much because look out!! Hulkbuster is punching the Hulk into that building!!

[Head Gardener]

oh yeah something I never mentioned in my review was the nastiness of some scenes with Dr Doom,
I wasn't exactly shocked by them but they were strong enough to put me off letting my young lad see it.
When Doom escapes

Spoiler alert

(actually strolls out of the top secret government facility)

[close]

he calmly

Spoiler alert

makes everyone who comes near him head explode, with a big brain splat on the wall behind their heads.

[close]

It is out of keeping with the softness of all that goes before and after these scenes that apart from the general
rubbishness of the film itself makes me not want to expose my ten year old to such violent nonsense.

[BritishHobo]

I love you but this is actual drivel.

Great things have been done with Kingpin, Arnim Zola, Kang the Conqueror, Doctor Octopus and Mandarin - and recently, at that.  They don't have anyone as compelling as, say, The Joker (and it kills me to admit that!) though.

Hang on, are you talking comics or films? 'Cos if we're talking about MCU films, isn't the Mandarin the only one they've actually featured? I will admit I loved what they did with him - although the villain who took his place was as bland as ever, and a lot of fans went mental because he wasn't an Oriental space magician.

Kingpin I did really like in Daredevil, although they seemed to go a bit too far the other way and spend so much time humanizing him (in a really interesting way) that his actual plan and motivations felt less realised.

Then again I thought the Lizard and Electro in the Amazing Spider-Man films were good villains, so I guess I'm just destined to be an outlier with these fucking films.

[weekender]

That Miles Teller seems absurdly bland. I haven't seen Whiplash, or anything else he's been in, though.

You should see Whiplash. 

Not saying it will change your opinion of Teller, but there are many other good reasons to watch it.

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

I'm perfectly willing to believe he may be a good actor but, watching the trailer for this, he comes across like Ann from Arrested Development. He barely has a face.

[Frazer]

Where's the Invisible Woman in that picture?













_{Thank you.}

[mothman]

Where's the Invisible Woman in that picture?

[Phil_A]

The best thing you could say about it is "Well, that certainly was a functional piece of film-making." It served it's purpose of letting Fox retain the rights to a potentially lucrative franchise, and that's about it.

Actually, all the stuff before they get their powers was surprisingly okay, particularly the prologue with young Ben & Reed. But the problem is it takes so long to get to the point of the four being a team that there's practically no time left to establish a credible threat for them to deal with, so the ending just feels absurdly rushed and low stakes.

I also hated the way

Spoiler alert

they cut short any character development related to them coping with their new powers with a time jump. (Oh no, how will we deal with the trauma of these new abilities? --> ONE YEAR LATER --> We have learnt to control our new abilities!)

[close]

That was like lazy film-making 101.

Did Tim Heidecker's scene(s) get cut? He was credited with the main cast, but was on screen less than 30 seconds.

I actually though Doom's

Spoiler alert

head-bursting spree

[close]

was the one moment in the last hour the film actually came to life. We're so used to seeing bloodless violence in these kind of films that it was actually kind of shocking. But that was the only time in the latter half of the film I actually sat up and took notice, the rest was just a big load of nothing.

I was actually surprised when Josh Trank's name came up at the end of this, since I saw Chronicle on TV the other week and was thinking how much better it was than I remembered. I suppose it's just another example of an interesting director being unable to retain any sense of individuality in the studio system. This was the kind of boilerplate superhero pic that could've been directed by anyone.

[Mister Six]

Hang on, are you talking comics or films? 'Cos if we're talking about MCU films, isn't the Mandarin the only one they've actually featured? I will admit I loved what they did with him - although the villain who took his place was as bland as ever, and a lot of fans went mental because he wasn't an Oriental space magician.

They've all had villains from the comics, it's just that they're usually boring and underwritten, because the studio's much more interested in the protagonists. Also, the primary Iron Man villains are all boring fucking businessmen in boring fucking suits.

Anyway, the villains from the comics:

IRON MAN 1: Obadiah Staine (aka Iron Monger)
IRON MAN 2: Justin Hammer, Ivan Vanko (aka Whiplash)
IRON MAN 3: "The Mandarin", Aldrich Killian

CAPTAIN AMERICA 1: The Red Skull
CAPTAIN AMERICA 2: The Winter Soldier, Alexander Pierce

THOR 1: Loki, The Destroyer
THOR 2: Loki, Malekith the Accursed

THE AVENGERS 1: Loki, Thanos
THE AVENGERS 2: Ultron

GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY: Ronan the Accuser, Thanos, Yondu (blue whistling fella), Korath (Djimon Honsou), Nebula (blue Karen Gillan)

THE INCREDIBLE HULK: Emil Blonsky (aka Abomination), General Ross

ANT-MAN: Darren Cross (aka Yellowjacket)

Granted, these aren't the most well-known or iconic villains (save The Red Skull and the Mandarin), but unfortunately those are mostly from properties that Marvel doesn't have the film direct rights to: Dr Doom and Galactus are Fantastic Four villains, Dr Octopus and Green Gobin are from Spider-Man; and Magneto is from the X-Men.

I do think it's the fault of the screenwriters to an extent, but the Marvel model does seem to be based around letting very charismatic heroes do the lifting work, since in most instances they get knocked off at the end of the movie.