Book pet peeves

[Famous Mortimer]

Tell me things that annoy you in books, why don't you?

* When the author includes a poem, or a song. Your talent is mostly for writing novels, mate, this is rubbish.

* Untranslated words in the middle of conversations between two people for whom the author is "translating". Might as well just be saying "I know Latin, you worthless peasants".

[Magnum Valentino]

Oh songs, fucking absolutely. At least Alan Moore had the gall to include the score for a song he stuck into V For Vendetta.

Fictional bands and singers are a hard enough sell without asking us to invest in believing in their success without it being possible to hear their music. I remember The Stand really laboring the point about that lad having been a big shot before the world ended. Was it "Baby Can You Dig Your Man?"?

No Stephen - I cannot.

[Kankurette]

Even worse if the French/German/Chinese/whatever is incorrect.

Protagonist-centred morality is a huge pet peeve of mine. Bad guy does a thing, they're a cunt. Hero/heroine does it, they're awesome.

[dontpaintyourteeth]

Oh songs, fucking absolutely. At least Alan Moore had the gall to include the score for a song he stuck into V For Vendetta.

Fictional bands and singers are a hard enough sell without asking us to invest in believing in their success without it being possible to hear their music. I remember The Stand really laboring the point about that lad having been a big shot before the world ended. Was it "Baby Can You Dig Your Man?"?

No Stephen - I cannot.

I love The Stand in spite of all its (many) flaws

"Baby Can You Dig Your Man?" is certainly one of its flaws

[Magnum Valentino]

Does The Stand withstand two reads in a lifetime?

Actually, I'm not sure I didn't read it twice - I might have.

Does The Stand withstand three reads in a lifetime?

[Joe Qunt]

Does The Stand withstand two reads in a lifetime?

Actually, I'm not sure I didn't read it twice - I might have.

Does The Stand withstand three reads in a lifetime?

Stop saying stand!

[bgmnts]

Does The Stand withstand two reads in a lifetime?

Actually, I'm not sure I didn't read it twice - I might have.

Does The Stand withstand three reads in a lifetime?

I did two and I can't do another one. No issue with that dumb song, I think it's quite funny to be honest.

I do find King's inclusion of song lyrics or whatever in that book, and lots of others, before chapters a bit pretentious. Okay yeah Don't Fear the Reaper is a song and the book is about a plague, so?

[Terry Torpid]

* Books that have a prefix and a foreword and an author's note and some other cunt's essay and the actual Chapter 1 is about 70 pages in. If it's actually important then make that shit the actual first chapter, if not, put it at the back.

* Baby's First Philosophical Quotations at the start of each chapter, or lyrics as mentioned above.

* Foreigners and working class types with phonetic speech. JK Rowling is especially bad for this. Him what wrote Trainspotting gets away with it because the whole book is like that, and it's his own accent anyway.

* In a third-person book, any non-dialogue bits with swearing in them, as if book itself is saying fuck and shit. Can't think of an example. but I'm sure I've seen it. It sometimes happens in screenplay stage directions too.

* When a book pretends to be a journal, and the character ends up in a dramatic situation when you wouldn't have the opportunity or inclination to write anything. Dracula has a bit of this. "My dearest Mina, I fear the Count means to keep me prisoner here forever. As I write, I can hear his dreaded footsteps coming up the stairs. Alas, he is at my bedroom door. My God, he has opened the door and is coming into my room to eat me!" Okay, it's not that bad but it's close.

* When an author tries to avoid using "said" all the time, so you get a string of substitutions, he exclaimed, she replied, he retorted, she rebuffed, he ejaculated, etc. Just say "said", it's fine.

* On a similar note, when an author drops he said she said altogether, so it's just unattributed dialogue alternating between two characters for ages, and you lose track of which one's which.

[Famous Mortimer]

* Books that have a prefix and a foreword and an author's note and some other cunt's essay and the actual Chapter 1 is about 70 pages in. If it's actually important then make that shit the actual first chapter, if not, put it at the back.

If it's a book that's gone through different editions or translations, then they'll often collect all the different forewords too. Get on with it!

* On a similar note, when an author drops he said she said altogether, so it's just unattributed dialogue alternating between two characters for ages, and you lose track of which one's which.

Two exceptions to this rule - "To The Lighthouse" by Virginia Woolf and "The Recognitions" by William Gaddis, cos they're both really good. But otherwise, yes.

[buttgammon]

* Foreigners and working class types with phonetic speech. JK Rowling is especially bad for this. Him what wrote Trainspotting gets away with it because the whole book is like that, and it's his own accent anyway.

Yes, I hate this. It can work if the author is doing it to their own dialect but it often comes across as really snobbish and patronising. There's actually a parody of it in the Alan Partridge autobiography, which concludes with Alan fantasising about joining the Chipping Norton set. Sounds about right!

[jobotic]

* Foreigners and working class types with phonetic speech. JK Rowling is especially bad for this. Him what wrote Trainspotting gets away with it because the whole book is like that, and it's his own accent anyway.

Unless it's a member of the lower orders appearing in a Golden Age crime novel.

"I 'appen to fink it was one of them dusky types from the circus oo dunnit Your Grace"

Lovely stuff

[kalowski]

Does The Stand withstand two reads in a lifetime?

Actually, I'm not sure I didn't read it twice - I might have.

Does The Stand withstand three reads in a lifetime?

It doesn't stand a single read. But it's better than IT.

[holyzombiejesus]

Guess it's not really a peeve and it's certainly my issue rather than a fault of the author, but I do struggle with translated books, especially when the character's names aren't ones I'm familiar with. I often find myself having to make notes of who is who as it just won't stick.

I struggle with a lot of translated books anyway. Not so much older books but more recent ones often seem, I dunno, quite stilted and mannered. How is it that you can tell if something was initially written in a different language?

[Thomas]

It doesn't stand a single read. But it's better than IT.

so as I understand it, the stand stands up to it but you can't stand it (or it)?

[wrec]

Fictional bands and singers are a hard enough sell without asking us to invest in believing in their success without it being possible to hear their music. I remember The Stand really laboring the point about that lad having been a big shot before the world ended. Was it "Baby Can You Dig Your Man?"?

On a similar note (hey!), recently read and mostly disliked a book of short stories by Helen DeWitt, who is routinely described as a genius and hilarious, though I don't agree. There's a story about an English band touring the US in the 60s, that have "5 songs in the top ten". Another story is about a contemporary UK band, who are described as "signed to a label" and have 4 songs on the top ten. Then there's something about Thom Yorke ringing and asking them to play a gig (which I think is supposed to be a big break after their chart dominance). In both instances it's clear they mean simultaneously in the top ten. It's all written in this nonchalant supposedly hyper-realist style too so no magic realism malarkey to brush it off.

[Terry Torpid]

It can work if the author is doing it to their own dialect but it often comes across as really snobbish and patronising.

That's very true, it implies that the author has "no accent" and everyone else is wrong. I imagine it's mostly General Americans and Queens Englishmen who do it.

Rowling would nevah swap the lettah r with an h when writing a non-rhotic charactah, because that's how she speaks too, so it's nohmal, but she'll swap an h with an apostrophe when 'Agrid does it. Lettahs that she doesn't say in real life aun't to be drawn attention to, but lettahs othah people don't say must be noted by theih absence. < It's so awkward to write like that, it must makes things more difficult to type and read.

[Kankurette]

I know, I know, kids' books but the original version of The Highland Twins at the Chalet School is excruciating to read because said Highland Twins have EVERYTHING THEY SAY written phonetically. "It iss fery kind of you, but we haf supper in our basket," that kind of thing. It makes it so much harder to read and the abridgers were right to cut it out and have them talk normally. And then there's Biddy O'Ryan and her weird arse stage Oirishness and saying things likes "Oi'm to slape in Miss Wilson's room." Or German characters talking like zis, vy you zis thing do, Dummkopf?

[Famous Mortimer]

On a similar note (hey!), recently read and mostly disliked a book of short stories by Helen DeWitt, who is routinely described as a genius and hilarious, though I don't agree. There's a story about an English band touring the US in the 60s, that have "5 songs in the top ten". Another story is about a contemporary UK band, who are described as "signed to a label" and have 4 songs on the top ten. Then there's something about Thom Yorke ringing and asking them to play a gig (which I think is supposed to be a big break after their chart dominance). In both instances it's clear they mean simultaneously in the top ten. It's all written in this nonchalant supposedly hyper-realist style too so no magic realism malarkey to brush it off.

@wrec, you'll forgive me if I'm miles off here, but this has happened:

That time the Beatles had the entire top 5 at once

[dontpaintyourteeth]

it annoys me how bukowski books usually have pretty interesting titles and nice front covers but are always shite

is this too specific

[Famous Mortimer]

Guess it's not really a peeve and it's certainly my issue rather than a fault of the author, but I do struggle with translated books, especially when the character's names aren't ones I'm familiar with. I often find myself having to make notes of who is who as it just won't stick.

I struggle with a lot of translated books anyway. Not so much older books but more recent ones often seem, I dunno, quite stilted and mannered. How is it that you can tell if something was initially written in a different language?

One of the modern translations of The Brothers Karamazov used the names the way Russians at the time would have done - I'm struggling to remember an exact comparison, but let's say John Smith would also be referred to as Smithovich (married name?), J-Dogg (friendly name) and Beuhwuhfufehw (middle name, or whatever). It made things incredibly difficult to keep track of, because they weren't "ordinary" names to English language readers so it felt like you needed a list of all the different people and all the different ways they were likely to be referred to, which spoiled the flow of the novel a little.

[wrec]

@wrec, you'll forgive me if I'm miles off here, but this has happened:

That time the Beatles had the entire top 5 at once

Oh yeah, but they were a huge cultural phenomenon at the time and that was an unprecedented achievement. Both of these bands are supposed to be moderately successful. The combination of a jaded narrative tone and not having a clue about the basics of the music business rubbed me up the wrong way.

[Terry Torpid]

One of the modern translations of The Brothers Karamazov used the names the way Russians at the time would have done - I'm struggling to remember an exact comparison, but let's say John Smith would also be referred to as Smithovich (married name?), J-Dogg (friendly name) and Beuhwuhfufehw (middle name, or whatever).

Russians do this annoying thing where they refer to you by your first and middle name when they're trying to call you out formally, instead of your surname, and your middle name is based on your dad's name. So if your Mr John Smith fucks up at work, his boss will call him John Keithovich or something like that because his dad was Keith Smith, and you think they're talking about someone new because they've dropped the surname.

Why can't them foreigns have proper naming conventions like what we do?

[wrec]

One of the modern translations of The Brothers Karamazov used the names the way Russians at the time would have done - I'm struggling to remember an exact comparison, but let's say John Smith would also be referred to as Smithovich (married name?), J-Dogg (friendly name) and Beuhwuhfufehw (middle name, or whatever). It made things incredibly difficult to keep track of, because they weren't "ordinary" names to English language readers so it felt like you needed a list of all the different people and all the different ways they were likely to be referred to, which spoiled the flow of the novel a little.

I wonder if this is the Pevear-Volokhonsky translation, as they have a reputation for tending towards the pedantic. If so I'm in trouble, that's the version I have and intend to read soon, and I get confused with characters at the best of times.

[Famous Mortimer]

I wonder if this is the Pevear-Volokhonsky translation, as they have a reputation for tending towards the pedantic. If so I'm in trouble, that's the version I have and intend to read soon, and I get confused with characters at the best of times.

Quick check - yes it is. I remember having an easier time with their "Crime and Punishment", though; and Pevear's solo translation of "The Three Musketeers" is one of my favourites.

[pigamus]

so as I understand it, the stand stands up to it but you can't stand it (or it)?

The problem is, the plague is far more interesting than the plot. I don't really give a shit about how they're going to put society back together again. I could do without Ole Miss Yessum Magical Negro as well.

[wrec]

Quick check - yes it is. I remember having an easier time with their "Crime and Punishment", though; and Pevear's solo translation of "The Three Musketeers" is one of my favourites.

I enjoyed their version of C'n'P. Looked up comparisons of the different translations and reckoned something "accurate" and literal was preferable to some herbert taking liberties or trying to be contemporary.

[bgmnts]

The problem is, the plague is far more interesting than the plot. I don't really give a shit about how they're going to put society back together again. I could do without Ole Miss Yessum Magical Negro as well.

This is true. The descriptions of the spread of the plague, the rising panic and various insanities that happen when society starts crumbling are mega ace, as is also the entire chapter dedicated to the poor survivors who meet with accidents or go mental.

I wish we had more from the antagonists who aren't Trashcan Man as well. Would ove to go into what they got up to before they interacted with the forces for good. And any neutral characters who weren't arsed about the dreams. I have a hard time Harold Lauder was dreaming about Freemantle.

But yeah when it actually gets to them creating the new society it gets crap.

[dontpaintyourteeth]

The problem is, the plague is far more interesting than the plot. I don't really give a shit about how they're going to put society back together again. I could do without Ole Miss Yessum Magical Negro as well.

To be fair, it's a typical King, it's a great idea and has some wicked set pieces (eg the Lincoln Tunnel bit) but it falls apart by the end. Many such cases

[purlieu]

I like most of The Stand, but the good vs evil plot is dire. It's an incredible world to be immersed in, I just don't care about Randall Flagg's typically shit plans and Aren't Black People Mysterious Woman's godliness.

It's a general fault of King's, that his main protagonists and villains are almost always tired cliches. The mayor or whoever he was in Under the Dome made me angry at the total lack of imagination in how he was written.

Book pet peeves... characters explaining what happened or writing in a diary, and having huge extended sections of dialogue. That's not how you relate stories, you sum up what the points of the conversation were, you don't recount every word said in the correct order.

[jamiefairlie]

Endings. People are really shit at writing satisfying endings. Often far too rushed.