R. Williams v R. Dawkins

[Tokyo Sexwhale]

It's a belief system when it becomes a militant almost poltical thing as it has with Dawkins and his acolytes (especially). Its disengenious to say atheists are just people who state there's no evidence for a god, there's actually a big spectrum from hard atheists like Dawkins to soft atheists and agnostics. Most people who describe themselves as atheist are really agnostic which is far more honest.  Dawkins and the like really find the idea intrinsically highly unlikely/improbable in itself and even unnappealing. This to me is not a defensible position in a universe so vast and utterly unknowable and mysterious.

Why shouldn't it be a political 'thing'?  It's surely a valid political stance not to want public affairs and policy to be determined or influenced by religion and religious groups.  Whatever your views on abortion, gay marriage (other than for religious ceremonies), economic policy, war or even something as relatively trivial as Sunday trading hours - why should the Church have any more say over those than any other special interest group? 

Of course others can have an opposing view and elect people on "religious" platforms - that's democracy; but I don't think it's "militant" to express objections or to argue against it.

[Neville Chamberlain]

I love how Dawkins constantly gets it in the neck, meanwhile Rowan Williams, an actual grown man who actually believes in a supernatural being, is getting away scot free.

[RickyGerbail]

there's no sport in hunting Rowan Williams. It's just not manly.

[RickyGerbail]

it wouldn't surprise me if all the people who like Dawkins also used to be schoolyard bullies. Picking on easy targets. I could have been a bully but i was too proud to harass anyone that i didn't see as a worthy oponent.

[thepuffpastryhangman]

3 nu

why should the Church have any more say over those than any other special interest group? 

It doesn't. Though the non-exploitative aspect of the gospel encourages me to view their case more sympathetically than those of, say BAE Systems, Tesco or the CBI.

This is the bit I never get. In my experience, however stuffy and straight, M&S and Estee Lauder the regulars are, any 'church' of any faith is basically just encouraging folks to be nice to one another. At ground level that's about it. And even higher up, they may not do everything you want them to but they don't do a lot you can raise a reasonable objection to either. There was that time the US Zionists dropped by and gave a wee lecture about "That abomdination, the Dome of the Rock" but I'm not sure the pastor knew what'd hit 'im.
Most churches try to open up their doors and share their resources on an entirely doctrine free way. Offering playgroups, activity sessions and drop ins. The local affordable not-for-profit community centre cunts.

[rudi]

Please, please don't come back next time.  If we want your contribution to a thread someone can just smear a turd across the page and get the same effect,

The day you're able to produce a turd worthy of such behaviour, you get right back to me. At least I get to come back, you never get to go away; try "friends", I hear they're all the rage these days.

[Crabwalk]

I moved to a village last year that contains a single primary school. I have a one year old son that I want to bring up with the freedom to choose his own beliefs. This is the opening paragraph on the school's website:

At 'x' School we work together to enable our pupils to attain the highest standards of academic achievement. We encourage them to be confident and successful within an orderly, secure and Christian environment and to make a positive contribution to the lives of others.

Now which word there should be utterly superfluous in the context of education in 21st Century society?

No you're right, the last thing we need are high profile academics that passionately advocate secularism. Scum of the earth that bunch.

[rudi]

It doesn't.

26 Lords Spiritual allowed in the House.

[Crabwalk]

The day you're able to produce a turd worthy of such behaviour, you get right back to me. At least I get to come back, you never get to go away; try "friends", I hear they're all the rage these days.

Hey, Biggy and I are engaged in a nice bout of 'Words with Friends' as we type. (He's beating me).

[rudi]

This is the bit I never get. In my experience, however stuffy and straight, M&S and Estee Lauder the regulars are, any 'church' of any faith is basically just encouraging folks to be nice to one another.

As we used to say in the cathedral (troo story): religion would be a great idea if it weren't for the believing in a god shit.

[thepuffpastryhangman]

26 Lords Spiritual allowed in the House.

And how many Lords Capital?

[rudi]

Hey, Biggy and I are engaged in a nice bout of 'Words with Friends' as we type. (He's beating me).

Words are the one thing he's not short of. Empathy, friends and hair, however...

[rudi]

And how many Lords Capital?

wut?

[Talulah, really!]

try "friends", I hear they're all the rage these days.

Get with it, Granddad! Aniston is SO over. It's all about "How I met your Mother"[nb]You can (and probably will) take that anyway you like.[/nb] these days.


Speaking of Granddads

Just heard the Archbishop and the arch-atheist are going head-to-head on Feb 23rd (not sure if it's on TV) but it sounds great.

Rowan gwon mash 'im up. I'm surprised ol' Dawky is going through with it.

I'll update details when I can check the agenda. Oh it's "The Nature Of Human Beings And The Question Of Their Ultimate Origin". Sounds perfect for Dawky but I can't fancy his chances.

As if it'll be on TV, like this is 1972 or something.

Maybe it will be on the world wide super information highway like totally 2001 or something.

[Crabwalk]

it wouldn't surprise me if all the people who like Dawkins also used to be schoolyard bullies. Picking on easy targets. I could have been a bully but i was too proud to harass anyone that i didn't see as a worthy oponent.

Name a few more worthy opponents than organised religion please.

I'll get you started:

1) Ricky Gervais

[rudi]

2) ARRY PEDOKNAPPPPPS!!1!!1

[Crabwalk]

3) The atheist Herr Adolfo Hitlerheil HIMSELF

[RickyGerbail]

Name a few more worthy opponents than organised religion please.

I'll get you started:

1) Ricky Gervais

these are certainly more important thus more worthy:

1. Global warming DENIERS!
2. Muslims (very different from the cuddly people of catholicism and protestants)
3.  psychopaths in the financial sector
4. governments that overuses anti-biotics (see Greece)

[rudi]

And you think he's going to prove that god doesn't exist by talking to a priest on television? Maybe he should try doing something difficult instead of having religious people throw him soft balls.

these are certainly more important thus more worthy:

2. Muslims (very different from the cuddly people of catholicism and protestants)

I... I mean, isn't that... no, never mind...

[Treguard of Dunshelm]

edit: fed the troll...

[RickyGerbail]

I... I mean, isn't that... no, never mind...

it's just as difficult on an intellectual level but it's much more dangerous thus being more manly.

[Crabwalk]

I think I'll just paste in how I replied to one of your very entertaining posts last week, Ricky:

That made me do a lol, I must admit. You weren't constantly trollin' when you first appeared here were you?

[Benevolent Despot]

They've debated on camera before for one of Dawkins' C4 shows. The uncut interview used to be up on youtube but all I can find now is this clip: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xd6d3l_archbishop-rowan-williams_tech?start=3#from=embed

Their newest debate should be titled "Two Polite Men Muttering".

[The Roofdog]

I always promise myself I won't click on these fucking threads when they come up but I can never help myself. Big Nev has it:

I love how Dawkins constantly gets it in the neck, meanwhile Rowan Williams, an actual grown man who actually believes in a supernatural being, is getting away scot free.

I mean, never even mind the Pope, who by all widely-accepted standards of decent human values should be in prison or an insane asylum, no: Richard Dawkins, what a SMUG CUNT, eh?

[rudi]

They're being iconoclastic, y'see? By defending the status quo. It's all terribly post-modern, apparently...

[chris87]

There's a lot Dawkins says I don't agree with, and the points I do agree with him on are pretty boring, but the amount of guff that gets bandied about over him being extremist is unbelievable. The only way I can explain it, as other posters have alluded to, is that its some sort of ridiculous meta-contrarianism.

[Still Not George]

We can only wait and hope the backlash to the backlash comes soon.

[Mister Six]

The difference between god and fairies is that there's quite a lot more at stake with the former...how people live their life and how they die.

And fairies don't have several massive organisations set up to propagate belief in their existence, nor has belief in fairies been woven into the theological DNA of every major nation on this planet.

[Saucer51]

Is "God" featured in Doctor Who?  Was he a "goodie"?

Of course. Even when he's giving leukaemia to 3 year olds, he's the ultimate good guy.

[Hank Venture]

Wrestling:

The Archbishop of Banterbury vs Richie Hawkwings