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Forums => General Bullshit => Topic started by: Ferris on November 05, 2021, 06:27:11 PM

Title: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: Ferris on November 05, 2021, 06:27:11 PM
I have a macabre fascination in people's belief and cults, and the thread on religious beliefs reminded me of QAnon and all those lads so I gave them a quick google.

Turns out there was a fairly large Q-adjacent gathering (estimates range from a few hundred to a thousand) on Dealey Plaza in Dallas 3 days ago. History buffs might remember it as the location where JFK was shot by the CIA. Apparently, the belief was that JFK Jr (deceased 1999) and JFK Sr (deceased 1963) were going to reveal themselves to be alive (and in Sr's case, over 104 years old), declare "everything" since 1879 (?) as illegal (?), and appoint mr trump as president, whereupon he would immediately resign and JFK Jr would become the new president, Michael Flynn would become VP (at this point sure why not), and 7 kings would rule America, with trump as "king of kings". When 2 dead people didn't rise out the grave and start appointing kings as planned, the prediction shifted to this all being announced at the end of a nearby Rolling Stones concert[nb]presumably as part of the big finale, which fair enough it would be quite the ender[/nb].

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/qanon-kennedy-jfk-jr-dealey-plaza-dallas-1251929/

...and I thought, wow.

I don't know why I find this stuff so engrossing - there hasn't been a "Q drop" in a little over a year and all of the predictions have turn out to be nonsense, and yet people have radicalized themselves and each other to be so completely off the grid that this JFK shit not only seems credible to them, but is so likely to happen they should take a day off from their lives and be there when it all happens.

They are flapping in the wind because there's no central planning guiding their beliefs so they've just gone completely bonkers. And these people sell cars, work in banks, paint houses, and go about presumably normal lives while being literally insane. I suppose it is fair enough that a few hundred wingnuts don't garner a lot of press attention, but if I didn't randomly google them today I would have no idea this had happened and that these people are out there. It's quite a strange thought.

I don't know what the point of this thread is, I just found this all very unsettling and thought I'd write it out to try and make sense of it.
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: mothman on November 05, 2021, 06:38:04 PM
Good idea for a thread, Ferris. As you say, this is perhaps the most extant extreme "conspiracy theory" out there and yet people able to do jobs which require a certain degree of intelligence are able to believe it without question.
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: Fambo Number Mive on November 05, 2021, 06:45:36 PM
So these Q people hate Democrat president Biden yet think that JFK and his son, who could be seen as more liberal as Biden at least on domestic issues, will make everything ok?

I'm sure Vincent Fusa is delighted with Rolling Stone for showing everyone how they can contact him via LinkedIn and making a disparaging comment about how he looks.
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: Blue Jam on November 05, 2021, 06:50:34 PM
Quote from: FerriswheelBueller on November 05, 2021, 06:27:11 PMApparently, the belief was that JFK Jr (deceased 1999) and JFK Sr (deceased 1963) were going to reveal themselves to be alive (and in Sr's case, over 104 years old), declare "everything" since 1879 (?) as illegal (?), and appoint mr trump as president, whereupon he would immediately resign and JFK Jr would become the new president

Was Elaine Benes there with bells on?
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: Ferris on November 05, 2021, 06:53:00 PM
It isn't just the extremity of the beliefs I find disconcerting, it's how weird they are and how quickly they have manifested.

Imagine someone in 2019 confidently telling you that JFK Sr will rise out of his grave next month and 7 kings will rule America, and that is how warped the beliefs have become in a single year without central "stabilizing"[nb]for want of a better word[/nb] cryptic Q drops. At least then they were all on the same page and had the same songsheet to witter on about. It's not a small number of people either, some of these fruitcakes have hundreds of thousands of followers on Telegram and they can't all be gonzo documentarians or Jon Ronson.

I also found the pretty overt references to religion fascinating - the concept of an innate value in having faith (regardless of the locus of that faith), and even when it is demonstrably entirely misguided. In a way, it is better for their predictions to be wrong, because that just allows them to demonstrate how much faith they have by continuing to believe. Several people interviewed in the piece make mention of the fact that they will continue to believe in all this come hell or high water, but I can't help but wonder how many of them knew who JFK Jr was or could point to Dallas on a map 2 years ago? And now it's the scene of a pseudo-rapture?

And even though an on-its-face ludicrous theory/event ended with several hundred damp people standing in the rain saying the pledge of allegiance (for reasons best known to themselves), they still continue to believe, fervently and with all their hearts, that it is all true. I suppose I'll continue to google them every few months and find baffling stuff like this and post about it here.

Funny old world.
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: Zetetic on November 05, 2021, 06:58:51 PM
Quote from: FerriswheelBueller on November 05, 2021, 06:53:00 PM
they still continue to believe, fervently and with all their hearts, that it is all true
I think you have to think carefully about what "believe" and "true" mean here, given your previous paragraph about faith and the significance, or not, of predictions manifesting.

Saying that you think JFK Jr is coming back and spending a pleasant-enough day out with some like-minded people in Dallas isn't a massive hardship, although it's a little bit of commitment.

These aren't the same sort of things to "believe are true" as the sort of beliefs involved in successfully navigating the world from day-to-day.
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: Ferris on November 05, 2021, 06:59:05 PM
Quote from: Fambo Number Mive on November 05, 2021, 06:45:36 PM
So these Q people hate Democrat president Biden yet think that JFK and his son, who could be seen as more liberal as Biden at least on domestic issues, will make everything ok?

That's the thing right - it is inherently ludicrous, and yet hundreds of thousands (?) of people (privately?) believe it to be absolutely be true.

The press have largely moved away from covering them (which I understand - they're not exactly movers and shakers and you don't want to amplify wingnuts), but it does mean they take on this weird "underground" type vibe. I was really thrown when I read the article because you stop following along with them for a few months and suddenly you find the theories haven't slowed or stopped, they've become more bizarre and seem no less popular than they were before.
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: Ferris on November 05, 2021, 07:00:39 PM
Quote from: Zetetic on November 05, 2021, 06:58:51 PM
I think you have to think carefully about what "believe" and "true" mean here, given your previous paragraph about faith and the significance, or not, of predictions manifesting.

Saying that you think JFK Jr is coming back and spending a pleasant-enough day out with some like-minded people in Dallas isn't a massive hardship, although it's a little bit of commitment.

I suppose I was highlighting the commitment more than anything else. It's one thing to post anonymously that you believe XYZ. Its another to take a day off work, drive to Dealey Plaza and stand in the rain wearing your MAGA hat to say the pledge of allegiance with strangers.
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: bgmnts on November 05, 2021, 07:03:17 PM
I think if you were to chuck these gimps on the bonfire and say 'recant your belief that JFK is alive or we'll crisp you' or whatever, i'd doubt there'd be a millisecond of thought.
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: Zetetic on November 05, 2021, 07:03:40 PM
Quote from: FerriswheelBueller on November 05, 2021, 07:00:39 PM
I suppose I was highlighting the commitment more than anything else. It's one thing to post anonymously that you believe XYZ. Its another to take a day off work, drive to Dealey Plaza and stand in the rain wearing your MAGA hat to say the pledge of allegiance with strangers.
But they're not just strangers, they're people that you share some rough values with and it's nice not to feel alone with those.
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: Goldentony on November 05, 2021, 07:05:39 PM
amazed JFK II didnt come back, had cash on that
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: Ferris on November 05, 2021, 07:07:08 PM
Quote from: Zetetic on November 05, 2021, 07:03:40 PM
But they're not just strangers, they're people that you share some rough values with and it's nice not to feel alone with those.

Sure, but that doesn't make the mutually-constructed outsider/folk-faith they've bought into any less odd, and that's the bit that weirds me out. The fact they're willing to meet up and do all this just underlines how fervently they hold those beliefs and makes it all the weirder (to me, anyway).

Quote from: Goldentony on November 05, 2021, 07:05:39 PM
amazed JFK II didnt come back, had cash on that

They had it backwards - he opened for Mick and Keith but no-one got there in time so he'll stick with the Stones for the next few legs of the tour until the time is just right.
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: Zetetic on November 05, 2021, 07:10:05 PM
Fervently, insofar as they did turn out, but perhaps not seriously in the same way that they might believe in the resale and scrap values of a second-hand 2004 Toyota Camry (to pick one of your examples, that these people might also run car dealerships).
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: chveik on November 05, 2021, 07:26:19 PM
Quote from: FerriswheelBueller on November 05, 2021, 06:59:05 PM
The press have largely moved away from covering them

have they? that's strange because a story like this would be a perfect distraction from that new election defeat
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: Ferris on November 05, 2021, 07:30:21 PM
Quote from: Zetetic on November 05, 2021, 07:10:05 PM
Fervently, insofar as they did turn out, but perhaps not seriously in the same way that they might believe in the resale and scrap values of a second-hand 2004 Toyota Camry (to pick one of your examples, that these people might also run car dealerships).

I don't see how that distinction makes a difference so not sure I follow the point you are making. If you believe in something fervently, you inherently take it seriously surely? No one fervently believes in something they simultaneously think is ludicrous. And even if they did (they don't), what real-world difference does that make?

Why are you here, self radicalized person with fervently held bonkers belief?

"Ah well, I have to stop you there - you see I take this belief-system seriously but not fervently, and I must take umbrage with your use of "belief" because there is a material difference (that is worth teasing out) between 'belief in something' and 'faith in something'..." etc.

They're people who have gone through a process of radicalization to the point of believing some really weird things, and there's enough of them out there to muster a decent showing on a rainy Tuesday (and I find both those things quite jarring and unsettling). Additionally, they must lead largely normal lives, and it's weird to think the guy selling you insurance or renewing your drivers license could be completely bonkers. That's all I'm really saying I suppose.

Quote from: chveik on November 05, 2021, 07:26:19 PM
have they? that's strange because a story like this would be a perfect distraction from that new election defeat

I read an op-ed that argued the democrats are losing ground because they're not tacking to the centre enough. I mean, give me strength.
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: Famous Mortimer on November 05, 2021, 07:34:17 PM
Quote from: Zetetic on November 05, 2021, 07:10:05 PM
Fervently, insofar as they did turn out, but perhaps not seriously
You'll have to explain the difference between these two. Do you have a normal, real-world example of a belief which is held fervently but not seriously?
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: Psybro on November 05, 2021, 07:39:59 PM
Weird cults have emerged as offshoots of religions all the time, it's just that the symbols and mythology of 20th century pop culture have replaced the religious ones since they're glitzier and more immediate.
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: Goldentony on November 05, 2021, 07:44:44 PM
this is the one thing id drop a bollock over if it turned out real, like id have to go out into the road hands up and wait for it arse in the air
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: TheGingerAlien on November 05, 2021, 08:08:16 PM
Saw that JFK stuff too and thought it was particularly barmy Ferris.  They just keep doubling down on the mad shit don't they?  Where will it all end.

Is it the Q lot that think Tom Hanks harvests children for adrenochrome?  You have to admire their creativity I suppose.
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: George Oscar Bluth II on November 06, 2021, 06:54:52 AM
Find it particularly funny they fervently want JFK Jr back from the dead. He was just some playboy socialite!
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: PlanktonSideburns on November 06, 2021, 07:19:08 AM
Don't know how they thought they were going to bring Kennedy back without some human sacrifices
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: kalowski on November 06, 2021, 08:02:46 AM
Remember the last time he came back? There was blooming mess everywhere.
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: Buelligan on November 06, 2021, 08:58:52 AM
I think this is about God being dead.  I think there are some people who need to have unshakable belief in a thing (maybe, to save them from thinking and being afraid).  If you take away one eternal daddy, they're ripe for adoption.  And there are peeds out there, just trawling, waiting, sniffing the blood in the water, which is everywhere now.
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: jobotic on November 06, 2021, 09:21:29 AM
I'm sure a lot of them don't believe it, they're just having fun.

How many of those that chant "The Jews will not replace us" really believe that "the Jews" are trying to replace them?

How many Terfs really believe that the existence of trans-women is a threat to the existence of all other women?

They're just enjoying the hate and being part of the club.
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: Buelligan on November 06, 2021, 09:45:01 AM
Yeah, I'm sure there's some of that in the mix too.
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: Ferris on November 06, 2021, 11:10:24 AM
Quote from: jobotic on November 06, 2021, 09:21:29 AM
I'm sure a lot of them don't believe it, they're just having fun.

I think that's probably the case online, and even in person when you're just having a bit of an old racist chant for an edgy laugh. That's one thing; when you've established your own outsider-political theology involving some pretty ludicrous theories and are willing to physically turn up somewhere to see it all unfold, that's a more intense (and difficult to dismiss) level of genuine crankery.

And there haven't been any "Q Drops" for a year, so this is all being synthesized based on absolutely nothing, just a collective groupthink and wish fulfillment.

Imagine locking 10 people in a room for a year with no information, and when they come out they confidently assert that Abe Lincoln ascended directly to heaven and is going to reappear again in Lincoln, Nebraska on the 4th of July 2022 and inaugurate Alan Sugar as King of America, and a thousand people actually travel there to see it happen. That's the level of unsettling weirdness that's going on here.

Anyway I'll stop banging on about this until the next episode of weirdness.
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: Kankurette on November 06, 2021, 11:51:48 AM
Odd how none of them have EVER proven a link to Frazzledrip, isn't it?
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: Zetetic on November 06, 2021, 12:04:57 PM
I don't mean to dismiss this as weird and unsettling, Ferris. What I think is that the sort of believing that "JFK Jr. is going to appear in Dallas to become Vice-President of the United States" is often a different kind of thing to believing in the resale value of a car, or when the next bus is going to come, or whether you should drink bleach.

Quote from: Famous Mortimer on November 05, 2021, 07:34:17 PM
You'll have to explain the difference between these two. Do you have a normal, real-world example of a belief which is held fervently but not seriously?
The most obvious examples are semi-religious beliefs like "the world is 4000 years old" or "this wafer is the flesh of the resurrected son of God". The content of these beliefs is often mostly irrelevant to believers actually navigating the world and it might be actually very difficult to make sense of what the actual claim being made is (because it doesn't matter a huge amount and will shift accordingly).

The entire point of these sort of beliefs is in their specific profession and rituals that can be vaguely tied to them - whether that's receiving communion or turning up for a day out in Dallas. The profession and the rituals tie groups together.

If something in the world challenges these beliefs, then you don't so much correct it (because you weren't that interested in whether it was true in the same way that you want to know if a bus timetable contains truth) but it might slide away a bit to something slightly different or simply more nebulous.

I think Ferris is absolutely correct here:
Quote from: FerriswheelBueller on November 05, 2021, 06:53:00 PM
In a way, it is better for their predictions to be wrong, because that just allows them to demonstrate how much faith they have by continuing to believe.

These beliefs aren't held because there's good evidence for them or they're useful in the sense of giving you a foundation on which to take action about the thing that the belief is about. They're professed and acted upon because, and mostly only insofar, they let you bind yourself with others.

(I don't want to overstate the degree of insight that most believers have into their own beliefs, and how they hold them.)
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: Ferris on November 06, 2021, 12:43:40 PM
I think I follow you - it's about the degree of immediacy in the belief? Like I can say I believe in the benefits of rent control, but I have a different degree of belief in where I left the cheerios? One belief guides my actual day to day actions and one is more of a professed type of thing?

I sort of buy that I think, but that's straying into epistemology in a way I'm not really qualified to bang on about. My Cheerios example is probably categorically knowledge (a true, justified belief), versus a plain old belief. Been a long time since my philosophy degree and I was a lazy student at the best of times so don't ask me to expand on it more than that!

Either way, I think just the formation of the belief itself is what I find weird, though I take your point on it potentially not driving actual real world "knowledge" type beliefs/actions (although; do any religious or pseudo-religious beliefs do that? Discuss [1500 words, include bibliography]).
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: Dex Sawash on November 06, 2021, 01:07:03 PM
Quote from: FerriswheelBueller on November 06, 2021, 12:43:40 PM
I have a different degree of belief in where I left the cheerios?

Was going to say this was a Post-modern belief but looked it up and General Mills makes Cheerios, not Post.
fuckitpost
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: Ferris on November 06, 2021, 01:12:22 PM
Quote from: Dex Sawash on November 06, 2021, 01:07:03 PM
Was going to say this was a Post-modern belief but looked it up and General Mills makes Cheerios, not Post.
fuckitpost

Never heard of this Post outfit until I noticed they are responsible for Shreddies these days[nb]a key snack for toddlers[/nb]. You take a few years out of the cereal world and the whole game changes.
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: kngen on November 06, 2021, 03:20:38 PM
I can't remember where I read it, but there was some research that claimed that a good 70% to 80% of QAnon acolytes are evangelicals. Which makes a certain amount of sense given the mental gymnastics they already indulge in to believe that Jesus was a big fan of accumulating wealth, poor people are solely to blame for all their problems and just saying that Jesus is in your heart absolves them of any negative consequences of their shitty behaviour.

It's the other percentage that baffles me. How do you get so far into that world without already being primed by the brainscrambling doublespeak of non-denom megachurches?

I'm sure most of you are familiar with it, but the QAnon Anonymous podcast - now that Q himself is no long active (as Q at least) - is doing some interesting on-the-ground reporting on the nexus between QAnon followers, California-style wellness grifters, soveriegn citizens, crystal woo merchants and the rest. You'd think that would be enough to marginlise them completely. Yet these are the loons that are now running for school boards and local government positions to fulfill Q's prophecies and ensure 'The Storm is Coming' ... again .... finally ... this time for sure. Hard not to fear the worst when you live in a state that's just flipped Republican from top to bottom.
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: Video Game Fan 2000 on November 06, 2021, 04:09:27 PM
I think the world has collectively turned a blind eye to prosperity gospel and its new, internet-enabled form over the past two decades which is notable because - the internet allows precision targetting of vulnerable groups, like non-english speaking immigrant communities and people in deep medical debt - and, part of how prosperity gospel works is a deluge of incoherent, absurd beliefs and statements to confound believers and quickly establish an in-group, its all about sunk cost.

These groups are incomprehensibly big and influential, and many of the people involved in prosperty gospel are also people involved in updating John Birch style conspiracies but amping them with Satanism and communist paedophile groups. It's a major place where "prophecy" and "conspiracy theory" comes together.

Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: TrenterPercenter on November 06, 2021, 04:10:51 PM
Not sure if anyone has read it but Kurt Andersons Fantasy Land explains that America from its conception is a country built on conspiracy theories and extreme religious beliefs. Originally, and still to this day people believe that the seconding coming would occur in America.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/35171984-fantasyland (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/35171984-fantasyland)
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: Video Game Fan 2000 on November 06, 2021, 04:13:15 PM
Did anyone here follow the "Blood Moons Prophecy" thing?
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: Noodle Lizard on November 06, 2021, 05:54:43 PM
Serious question: has anyone actually met a QAnonner in person? I'm sure we all know the odd conspiracy theorist, or at least conspiracy sympathisers, but I've never encountered anyone seriously suggesting the Q stuff specifically is true (including Alex Jones, the conspiracy subreddit etc.) It makes you wonder how much influence it really has outside of being a sort of internet meme, and its not-inconsiderable crossover with trolling communities supports that hypothesis, but it's somehow garnered such consistent mainstream attention that even my mum knows all about them. So is there an element of the Streisand effect in action, or are there actually significant pockets of society that genuinely believe in and act upon this (mid)information to this day?
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: Dex Sawash on November 06, 2021, 06:21:38 PM
I'm kind of sad I haven't met one. One apolitical guy at work who didn't really know what a Democrat or Republican was, got kind of trump-woke and started to sound like he was going to go proud boyish (there was a name of pro-trump biker-type thugs before PB that I don't remember now). He would probably have gone Q but wasn't literate enough to stay engaged with text based whackadoodlery.
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: kngen on November 06, 2021, 08:15:46 PM
Quote from: Noodle Lizard on November 06, 2021, 05:54:43 PM
Serious question: has anyone actually met a QAnonner in person? I'm sure we all know the odd conspiracy theorist, or at least conspiracy sympathisers, but I've never encountered anyone seriously suggesting the Q stuff specifically is true (including Alex Jones, the conspiracy subreddit etc.) It makes you wonder how much influence it really has outside of being a sort of internet meme, and its not-inconsiderable crossover with trolling communities supports that hypothesis, but it's somehow garnered such consistent mainstream attention that even my mum knows all about them. So is there an element of the Streisand effect in action, or are there actually significant pockets of society that genuinely believe in and act upon this (mid)information to this day?

Not directly, but a brewer friend of mine quit his job at a brewpub because his boss went Qrazy, and would subject his staff to mental rants on a daily basis (He also hosted the Proud Boys when they were in town.) And even less directly (but more amusingly), I had a bunch of anti-Trump stickers printed up during the pandemic. My wife stuck one up on the toll booth she goes through every day to work, and about two days later a 'WW1WGA' sticker had been put on top of it. So they're out there, for sure.
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: amputeeporn on November 06, 2021, 10:13:11 PM
Quote from: Noodle Lizard on November 06, 2021, 05:54:43 PM
Serious question: has anyone actually met a QAnonner in person?

My parents' next door neighbour. He's a builder and bought the house years ago, but instead of moving his family in, he kept them in their old house while he spent five years obsessively rebuilding it from scratch. They finally moved in over lockdown but the wife left because he'd gone crazy. The kids soon after (in their late teens I think), and only one of the kids still speaks to him.

Now his van's there all the time, which means he's not working at all (he's a one-man show, self employed). My parents can't get in or out without him haranguing them into long, mad conversations - all circling around Q (and Q-adjacent) conspiracy theories. He's recently told them his plan is to sell the house but buy the patch of land that his shed is on, to continue living in there.

Of course, he's also convinced that Covid isn't real while having had a hacking cough and long-Covid symptoms for months.

EDIT: I should mention, this is in middle England.
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: Famous Mortimer on November 06, 2021, 10:37:14 PM
Reading about the Dealey Plaza thing, apparently they're all lined up in single file, receiving individual instructions from a man with a parrot on his shoulder.
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: mothman on November 06, 2021, 11:11:38 PM
And they all formed a giant letter Q too, apparently. It's like a Halifax advert for cunts.
Title: Qypernormalisation
Post by: Buelligan on November 07, 2021, 09:40:21 AM
Qunts, surely?

Do think NoodleLizard's thought, how prevalent and real this is compared to how much exposure and concern it's afforded, is quite salient.  Makes me wonder, you know, about that thing, how the world seems to be turned into a mad fucking place (madder than that), populated and led by two-dimensional comic-book weirdos, makes me wonder whether it really is or whether the media is serving it that way for its own self-serving reasons (as it's always presented reality, through a drug-veil of distortion).  Or is that a conspiracy theory?

Anyway, what's more believable, we've all grown horns overnight or someone's painted some horns on the mirror?

(https://static.independent.co.uk/2021/01/07/17/1294935351-1.jpg?width=982&height=726&auto=webp&quality=75)
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: PlanktonSideburns on November 07, 2021, 10:26:44 AM
never forget that lads a slaphead underneath his hat
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: Buelligan on November 07, 2021, 11:16:41 AM
Baldiness isn't the problem.  Problem is, this is a child[nb]in the worst sense.  A silly self-regarding nit-wit.[/nb].
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: mothman on November 07, 2021, 12:18:33 PM
Sure it's all culture war bollocks in the final analysis, but is culture war the cause or the symptom? Us laughing at QAnon's batshit delusions is the left's kind of sally into that arena, but should we instead ignore it (the only way to win is not to play, etc.)? Given the media like culture wars, and they're all on the side that does it best? When anything we do or say is waved away as just bring the Twitter echo chamber, or such that you have ministers going on Marr to say "Oh, I think you'll find all of this is of no concern to anyone outside the Westminster bubble, ordinary hard working families don't care about it" and so on and so on...
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: Nice Relaxing Poo on November 07, 2021, 01:08:15 PM
Quote from: PlanktonSideburns on November 07, 2021, 10:26:44 AM
never forget that lads a slaphead underneath his hat

Yeah, one glimpse of his bald pate would've shattered the illusion on Jan 6th. No wonder he always had that hat on.
Title: Re: Qypernormalisation
Post by: kalowski on November 07, 2021, 02:58:02 PM
Quote from: Buelligan on November 07, 2021, 09:40:21 AM

(https://static.independent.co.uk/2021/01/07/17/1294935351-1.jpg?width=982&height=726&auto=webp&quality=75)
I hate Jamiroquai.
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: TrenterPercenter on November 07, 2021, 03:10:15 PM
I wonder what the psychological impact that American TV has had on its people.  Nearly every American you see on TV appears unreal and scripted.  Has there ever been culture on the earth so desperate to be on camera?
Title: Re: Qypernormalisation
Post by: Buelligan on November 07, 2021, 03:31:27 PM
Quote from: kalowski on November 07, 2021, 02:58:02 PM
I hate Jamiroquai.

We are of one mind.

Quote from: Buelligan on November 07, 2021, 10:09:44 AM
Harry's Place and the Mental Child of Jay Kay and Quanon Buffalo
Title: Re: Qypernormalisation
Post by: kalowski on November 07, 2021, 07:24:36 PM
Quote from: Buelligan on November 07, 2021, 03:31:27 PM
We are of one mind.
Ha ha, nice.
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: Key on November 08, 2021, 10:06:42 AM
I know its futile to ask but:

Why JFK?
Why not Reagan or Eisenhower or another (R)

I assume its cause the manner of his death affords the story greater sensationalism.

But it really ruins the credibilty.


I suppose in a cult it becomes a game of one-upmanship about who will believe the craziest bullshit.
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: Ferris on November 19, 2021, 03:57:34 PM
So 2+ weeks later, what happened?

From what I can piece together, some went home but there are still several hundred people showing up at Dealey Plaza all day every day; and the big reckoning has moved back to "either" November 17th (so a miss there), 19th (still time for this one!) or the 22nd (JFK will come back on the anniversary of his assassination for some reason).

I wonder how long they will stay there?
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: QDRPHNC on November 19, 2021, 04:00:31 PM
Quote from: Key on November 08, 2021, 10:06:42 AMWhy JFK?

I don't know the answer, but I'll make a stab at it. Back maybe 10 to 15 years ago, when the "vaccines cause autism" thing was getting big, there was something about how JFK Jr. had been speaking out about them and killed because of it. So given the overlap with modern Q-Anon and anti-vax crowd, it wouldn't surprise me if that was the connection.

And also the whole JFK being murdered by the CIA or something. These people's brains are dogs dinners.
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: Ferris on November 19, 2021, 04:06:14 PM
I had the same question - apparently there were photos of RFK with trump taken in the '90s, and that became the kernel of "he will be the Vice President!!" because the most fascinating thing about all this is the ability to synthesize stuff out of essentially nothing.

More on our friends in Dallas:

QuoteTwo weeks ago, when JFK failed to materialize, Protzman led his followers to a $300-a-ticket Rolling Stones concert that was taking place in the city and now claims without any evidence that the band had actually been replaced by Jackson (playing Mick Jagger), JFK Jr. (Keith Richards), and Prince (drummer Steve Jordan), while one of the backing singers was replaced by Aaliyah, the U.S. singer who died in a plane crash in 2001.

What a lineup. I don't like Vice's coverage because it is written with a lot of implicit sneering, but no one else is really covering this. Maybe that's fair enough I suppose.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/4awvyb/qanon-dallas-jfk-protzman
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: Ferris on November 19, 2021, 04:09:08 PM
Oh, and apparently they've taken to singing We Are the World in between reciting the pledge of allegiance en masse, and I think Michael Jackson is part of the canon somehow, but as a goodie. It's all gotten a bit odd
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: mjwilson on November 19, 2021, 07:52:55 PM
Quote from: FerriswheelBueller on November 19, 2021, 03:57:34 PMSo 2+ weeks later, what happened?

From what I can piece together, some went home but there are still several hundred people showing up at Dealey Plaza all day every day; and the big reckoning has moved back to "either" November 17th (so a miss there), 19th (still time for this one!) or the 22nd (JFK will come back on the anniversary of his assassination for some reason).

I wonder how long they will stay there?

It's not that JFK who's coming back. That would be silly.
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: Alberon on November 19, 2021, 07:59:44 PM
They're making the transition to a full-on religious cult.

This just shakes off those who are merely nutjob conspiracists while keeping the truly hatstand believers.
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: Ferris on November 19, 2021, 11:45:36 PM
Quote from: mjwilson on November 19, 2021, 07:52:55 PMIt's not that JFK who's coming back. That would be silly.

No it is him (aged 104) but RFK will be there too. Plus Aaliyah and shit.
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: Cold Meat Platter on November 19, 2021, 11:47:52 PM
So little ambition. JFK? Why not King Arthur or Godzilla?
It's the poverty of imagination that rankles most.
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: Ferris on November 24, 2021, 05:21:09 PM
Still there. Any day now, definitely.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FE0cFLjXsAUT25S?format=jpg&name=large)

Most recent shout was 9:11pm on November 22nd, which I love for its childish symbolism.
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: QDRPHNC on November 24, 2021, 05:24:40 PM
Quote from: FerriswheelBueller on November 24, 2021, 05:21:09 PMchildish symbolism.

Long time ago I stumbled across a collection of ideas from the general public on what should be built on the site of the World Trade Center.

Absolutely hilarious, some of them.
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: TheGingerAlien on November 24, 2021, 05:49:09 PM
Quote from: QDRPHNC on November 24, 2021, 05:24:40 PMLong time ago I stumbled across a collection of ideas from the general public on what should be built on the site of the World Trade Center.

Absolutely hilarious, some of them.

What's yer top 5?
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: chveik on November 24, 2021, 05:55:13 PM

this is quite funny
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: QDRPHNC on November 24, 2021, 06:00:49 PM
Quote from: TheGingerAlien on November 24, 2021, 05:49:09 PMWhat's yer top 5?

https://web.archive.org/web/20050212223618/http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2002/wtc.ideas/designs/page.30/ (https://web.archive.org/web/20050212223618/http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2002/wtc.ideas/designs/page.30/)

I actually just found the page through the wayback machine, so a lot of the pictures are gone, but here it is. I can't find the one that really stuck out to me years ago, something about "LET'S ROLL" stretching across the inside of bridge connecting the two new buildings? Something really stupid like that.

(https://i.imgur.com/jT0OSn4.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/pg1Mrle.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/fFSC8s7.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/WXE0Cy2.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/eChinsj.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/1cE0Fco.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/17KVAaM.png)

Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: TheGingerAlien on November 24, 2021, 06:18:11 PM
Quote from: QDRPHNC on November 24, 2021, 06:00:49 PM(https://i.imgur.com/pg1Mrle.png)

Wow, these are amazing.  Such creativity!
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/v5HtQsJVoUY/maxresdefault.jpg)
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: Video Game Fan 2000 on November 24, 2021, 06:28:04 PM
Quote from: QDRPHNC on November 24, 2021, 06:00:49 PM(https://i.imgur.com/fFSC8s7.png)

This is brilliant. Why didn't they just build this?
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: DJ Bob Hoskins on November 24, 2021, 06:36:32 PM
Quote from: QDRPHNC on November 24, 2021, 06:00:49 PM(https://i.imgur.com/17KVAaM.png)

I love the idea of building the tallest building in the world and then only using the first 60 floors. Like property developers would be fine with the idea of spending billions to construct space they can never sell or lease, in one of the most expensive real estate markets in the world.
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: QDRPHNC on November 24, 2021, 06:38:31 PM
Quote from: DJ Bob Hoskins on November 24, 2021, 06:36:32 PMI love the idea of building the tallest building in the world and then only using the first 60 floors. Like property developers would be fine with the idea of spending billions to construct space they can never sell or lease, in one of the most expensive real estate markets in the world.

Correction - two 100-storey buildings that only use the first 60 floors.
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: QDRPHNC on November 24, 2021, 06:45:48 PM
Quote from: chveik on November 24, 2021, 05:55:13 PM
this is quite funny

I propose we now start calling World World 2, "The Hitler Situation".
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: Ferris on November 24, 2021, 07:15:34 PM
Quote from: DJ Bob Hoskins on November 24, 2021, 06:36:32 PMI love the idea of building the tallest building in the world and then only using the first 60 floors. Like property developers would be fine with the idea of spending billions to construct space they can never sell or lease, in one of the most expensive real estate markets in the world.

Love the last paragraph of that as well.

Trying to stitch him up with a "what if they get attacked by planes again" routine? Well, he's got a plan for that, mate. Erik is always one step ahead.
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: Video Game Fan 2000 on November 24, 2021, 07:19:54 PM
My plan would be to build the World Trader Center again exactly where it used to be with the same dimensions. But this time to build it downwards into the ground. This is a genius idea because the exact same amount of office space is created and the surface is free to be a beautiful park to remember those we lost on that tragic day.

But hold on, I see what the criticism of my plan is going to be. What if the Mole People attack the World Trade Center II with their drill-based vehicles? You see, this is where I am an even bigger genius than you already thought. If this happens, the entire construction instantly pops out of the ground to be a skyscaper again. I've loaded it with massive springs released with explosives.
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: DJ Bob Hoskins on November 24, 2021, 07:21:18 PM
Quote from: QDRPHNC on November 24, 2021, 06:38:31 PMCorrection - two 100-storey buildings that only use the first 60 floors.

Heh, indeed.

I know if I'd died on 9/11 and was represented by one of the 2,600+ life-size statues on the site, I'd want the statue to be staring up at some vacant offices. It's really quite poignant when you think about it.
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: DJ Bob Hoskins on November 24, 2021, 07:25:50 PM
Quote from: FerriswheelBueller on November 24, 2021, 07:15:34 PMLove the last paragraph of that as well.

Trying to stitch him up with a "what if they get attacked by planes again" routine? Well, he's got a plan for that, mate. Erik is always one step ahead.

If only Erik had been at ground zero back in 2001, he could have suggested the use of fire escapes and helicopters. I bet the FDNY are kicking themselves now.
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: Mister Six on November 24, 2021, 07:44:43 PM
Fucking hell. You think they'll take a break for Thanksgiving?
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: Ferris on November 24, 2021, 08:09:56 PM
Quote from: chveik on November 24, 2021, 05:55:13 PM

this is quite funny

Blimey.

I really like this interviewer - he has the Nathan Fielder sort of interview style that is respectful while also slightly taking the piss.
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: mothman on November 24, 2021, 08:52:19 PM
Quote from: Video Game Fan 2000 on November 24, 2021, 07:19:54 PMMy plan would be to build the World Trader Center again exactly where it used to be with the same dimensions. But this time to build it downwards into the ground. This is a genius idea because the exact same amount of office space is created and the surface is free to be a beautiful park to remember those we lost on that tragic day.

But hold on, I see what the criticism of my plan is going to be. What if the Mole People attack the World Trade Center II with their drill-based vehicles? You see, this is where I am an even bigger genius than you already thought. If this happens, the entire construction instantly pops out of the ground to be a skyscaper again. I've loaded it with massive springs released with explosives.

(https://c.tenor.com/r4_lf39FJE0AAAAd/stingray-gerry-anderson.gif)
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: Video Game Fan 2000 on November 24, 2021, 08:57:58 PM
It'll be successful, I'm putting the entire reputation of P.U. Pirate & Sons Architects on the line.
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: Ferris on November 26, 2021, 03:33:45 AM
Suspect the nutters are still in Dallas, and basically will be until forever. Meanwhile - I'm on the chopping block!

https://www.vice.com/en/article/v7ddgm/qanons-queen-of-canada-calls-for-followers-to-kill-people-vaccinating-children

My boy is vaccinated so it's curtains for me!

...but this is the kind of thing I find so fascinating, and also so weird when it finally hoves into my view. This lady is claiming to be the queen of Canada and has been for a few years (?), and people are going "ok yes, that makes sense, so we'll do whatever you say so what should we do then?"

There are all sorts of obvious boring reasons about why that's ludicrous (and some esoteric Canadian socio-political ones: power lives with lawrentian Canadians, man!), but I'm interested in how someone got to this position, and why other people believe them. I don't know why I find the strangeness so compelling, but there you go.

Is it... serious? No, probably not, but it's out there and I had no idea until 20 minutes ago.
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: phantom_power on November 26, 2021, 11:22:54 AM
Quote from: chveik on November 24, 2021, 05:55:13 PM

this is quite funny

I don't find it funny, just sad. That these people are tanking their lives on such a ridiculous and hateful fantasy.

It is very odd that, in their eyes, only one side of the political divide has rich and powerful people abusing that power for awful ends. And that Trump, of all people, is their savour

It also says something about the higher-ups in the movement that they are relying on some Democrat to come back from the dead, or out of hiding, to save them. It shows how shit all the other "believers" are really
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: Ferris on December 17, 2021, 03:14:28 AM
Roger Stone has turned up to talk to the remaining faithful (numbering a "few dozen")

https://www.vice.com/en/article/4awxzw/roger-stone-visited-jfk-qanon-cult

...Though per the article, families are starting to formally section people still there which is a bit grim. Apparently the former Apprentice USA host himself will be nearby this weekend (or possibly last weekend, article isn't clear) so perhaps that's when the prophecy will come true.

I am fascinated by the ~1,000 people who showed up in Dallas initially but have since left - do they still believe in all this or what? And why (or why not)?

I also don't get why you'd make a claim like this that will obviously and undeniably be disproved by basic reality as of a certain date unless you actually believe it. If it was all a scam, you'd say "oh who knows" or you'd pick a date 50 years in the future. Making a huge claim about dead people coming back to life as of a specific date makes no sense unless you really believe that to be the case.

Anyway, will they do Christmas there? Or will the men in white coats scoop them up before then? Who can say.
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: Alberon on December 17, 2021, 11:32:05 AM
They're down to the bedrock of those who chose to completely ignore reality. At this point QAnon isn't like a cult, it is a cult.

But it would be interesting to track down those who've left and find out what they think now.
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: Ferris on December 17, 2021, 01:30:51 PM
Well the big Q phrases are "no coincidences" and "trust the plan" which cover essentially all scenarios.

Something happens and you are able to draw some wild inference (the Rolling Stones playing in Dallas, someone is wearing a specific colour tie etc) then it's all happening! No coincidences! If something doesn't happen in a way that you can't pretend you didn't see (eg jfk doesn't rise out of his grave on the 48th anniversary of his own assassination) then it's ok, I don't have to understand, I trust the plan.

It's probably subconscious, but it apes modern evangelical Christianity in that god knows exactly what he's doing via his plan, but also if something entirely and inconveniently and un-ignorably non-Jesus happens, then well "he moves in mysterious ways". It also makes adherents who believe (regardless of what reality tells them) tremendously pliable and exploitable. They have this ur-faith, they just don't know in what. If you come along and tell them (oh and solicit "donations" of course), it's probably very lucrative.

They're apparently all sleeping in a couple of Airbnbs (a dozen or so in each place on the floor) which has MEGA-CULT energy.
Title: Re: QAnon Does Dallas, and where do they go from here
Post by: Zetetic on December 17, 2021, 01:47:55 PM
Quote from: Ferris on December 17, 2021, 03:14:28 AMThough per the article, families are starting to formally section people still there which is a bit grim.
... Or will the men in white coats scoop them up before then? Who can say.

Unsurprisingly, I'd hope, the example actually linked to in the story isn't as neat as "person goes to DALLAS, gets subjected to state-violence for being MENTAL":
https://www.vice.com/en/article/v7ddxd/qanon-jfk-cult-has-families-breaking-apart
(Even in Vice's telling, which is clearly desperate for that to be the narrative.)