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Forums => Picture Box => Topic started by: icehaven on November 11, 2021, 04:49:54 PM

Title: Things Fell Apart - new Jon Ronson podcast
Post by: icehaven on November 11, 2021, 04:49:54 PM
Dunno if there's already a thread for this, couldn't find one, but it's his new podcast focussing on various incidents/milestones in the culture wars. I like Ronson and I don't really know what the culture wars are although I feel as though I should so thought I'd give it a go. Only one episode up so far (on BBC Sounds unfortunately) and it was good but a bit short, could do with being more like an hour I think.
First one focuses on an American wannabe film director who sort of inadvertently ended up making a documentary that fuelled the evangelical anti-abortion movement back in the 70s and helped turn it into a political issue. Actually made me want to see the doc out of ghoulish interest, it sounds bizarre.
Title: Re: Things Fell Apart - new Jon Ronson podcast
Post by: dissolute ocelot on November 11, 2021, 11:38:13 PM
It's been mentioned in the Glinner thread (mainly because we're hoping Ronso will do a bit on Glinner). Ronson has done a lot of this stuff on people who've embarrassed themselves online. It's good that people are paying attention to online culture because it seems they'd rather write essays on Sally Rooney or Succession than discuss the things millions of people read every day. Sad if it's not brilliant, but sounds like stories that are worth hearing.
Title: Re: Things Fell Apart - new Jon Ronson podcast
Post by: chveik on November 12, 2021, 01:16:47 AM
i'd love to have my mind wiped of everything related to culture wars stuff
Title: Re: Things Fell Apart - new Jon Ronson podcast
Post by: gilbertharding on November 12, 2021, 09:52:53 AM
Quote from: icehaven on November 11, 2021, 04:49:54 PM
(on BBC Sounds unfortunately)

I'll listen to these. I don't have much experience of BBC Sounds, but it seems to work OK... except the search function is utterly bobbins. I tried to find this yesterday, but couldn't remember the title, so I searched 'Jon Ronson'.

Of course, because 'Jon Ronson' isn't in the title, it couldn't find it. For fuck's sake.
Title: Re: Things Fell Apart - new Jon Ronson podcast
Post by: icehaven on November 12, 2021, 11:07:28 AM
Quote from: gilbertharding on November 12, 2021, 09:52:53 AM
I'll listen to these. I don't have much experience of BBC Sounds, but it seems to work OK... except the search function is utterly bobbins. I tried to find this yesterday, but couldn't remember the title, so I searched 'Jon Ronson'.

Of course, because 'Jon Ronson' isn't in the title, it couldn't find it. For fuck's sake.

Yep that's partly my issue with it, I think it's a BBC thing in general as searching for their brand new prime time series The Outlaws in the iplayer app brings up a 70 odd year old film first.
Title: Re: Things Fell Apart - new Jon Ronson podcast
Post by: olliebean on November 12, 2021, 12:01:28 PM
I think you both must be doing it wrong. Searches for "Jon Ronson" and "The Outlaws" turned up the desired results straight away for me, both in BBC Sounds/iPlayer searches and in the overall BBC site search.
Title: Re: Things Fell Apart - new Jon Ronson podcast
Post by: Pranet on November 12, 2021, 12:08:51 PM
My problem with it is that there appears not to be a download so I need to get iplayer it.
Title: Re: Things Fell Apart - new Jon Ronson podcast
Post by: MojoJojo on November 12, 2021, 12:21:34 PM
There is a download option for me.
Title: Re: Things Fell Apart - new Jon Ronson podcast
Post by: Pranet on November 12, 2021, 12:29:06 PM
Fucks sake.

I'll have another look.
Title: Re: Things Fell Apart - new Jon Ronson podcast
Post by: MojoJojo on November 12, 2021, 12:36:34 PM
Of course I'm using the app, you probably can't get an mp3 off the website. And I've just tried the website search and it doesn't work at all - letters I type don't appear in the text box.
Title: Re: Things Fell Apart - new Jon Ronson podcast
Post by: Pranet on November 12, 2021, 01:59:09 PM
Ah, that might be it then.
Title: Re: Things Fell Apart - new Jon Ronson podcast
Post by: icehaven on November 12, 2021, 04:27:17 PM
Yep I had to install the Sounds app to be able to download it too.
Title: Re: Things Fell Apart - new Jon Ronson podcast
Post by: Pranet on November 12, 2021, 05:05:35 PM
They are pushing people that way. Used to be pages for the podcasts by station, which suited me as I'm a middle aged cliche and 99% of the things I wanted to listen to would be on the Radio 4 page. But they got rid of that recently. Wouldn't surprise me if you have to use the app in the near future for everything. Which I would find really annoying.
Title: Re: Things Fell Apart - new Jon Ronson podcast
Post by: studpuppet on November 12, 2021, 08:41:22 PM
You can use get_iplayer to download the programme files off the Sounds website - works the same as on the iPlayer site.
Title: Re: Things Fell Apart - new Jon Ronson podcast
Post by: Mister Six on November 12, 2021, 08:50:36 PM
Annoyingly, this isn't available in the US, at least on the Sounds app or BBC website. Anyone got a clever workaround?

Even my usual VPN isn't working for some reason, but I'd rather listen to it on my phone anyway.
Title: Re: Things Fell Apart - new Jon Ronson podcast
Post by: olliebean on November 12, 2021, 09:05:34 PM
Quote from: icehaven on November 12, 2021, 04:27:17 PM
Yep I had to install the Sounds app to be able to download it too.

Sod that, I'm not downloading a file that I can only play with a specific app. The whole point of downloading it is so I can listen with my app of choice.
Title: Re: Things Fell Apart - new Jon Ronson podcast
Post by: BritishHobo on November 12, 2021, 09:06:14 PM
I will give this a go, but I'm a bit wary. I loved So You've Been Publicly Shamed, thought it was a really important book - but then his podcast on August Ames' suicide disappointed me, because it felt like a dishonest and reverse-engineered attempt to prove public shaming definitely definitely didn't lead her to it. It's not necessarily that I think he's wrong, it's just that it came off very thin, with conclusions not really supported by the podcast. The cherry on top was the reveal that Ronson had contacted Ames' grieving husband only about a week after her death. Very weird, cynical thing.
Title: Re: Things Fell Apart - new Jon Ronson podcast
Post by: George Oscar Bluth II on November 13, 2021, 06:02:58 AM
Very annoying that the BBC calls things "podcasts" that are not available on public podcast feeds and are only available on their own app. Boo.
Title: Re: Things Fell Apart - new Jon Ronson podcast
Post by: Pranet on November 13, 2021, 07:21:55 AM
Quote from: Mister Six on November 12, 2021, 08:50:36 PM
Annoyingly, this isn't available in the US, at least on the Sounds app or BBC website. Anyone got a clever workaround?

Even my usual VPN isn't working for some reason, but I'd rather listen to it on my phone anyway.

He says it is on apple podcasts in the US and Canada.
Title: Re: Things Fell Apart - new Jon Ronson podcast
Post by: mjwilson on November 13, 2021, 11:15:43 AM
Quote from: George Oscar Bluth II on November 13, 2021, 06:02:58 AM
Very annoying that the BBC calls things "podcasts" that are not available on public podcast feeds and are only available on their own app. Boo.

Oh I thought it was only me who was pedantic enough to get worried about this.
Title: Re: Things Fell Apart - new Jon Ronson podcast
Post by: beanheadmcginty on November 13, 2021, 11:26:38 AM
Little chat between Jon and Ads Curts in the Guardian today:

https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2021/nov/12/jon-ronson-and-adam-curtis-on-the-culture-wars-how-has-this-happened-where-is-the-escape-hatch

Count me as another who thinks BBC Sounds needs to get cunted in the fuck.
Title: Re: Things Fell Apart - new Jon Ronson podcast
Post by: olliebean on November 13, 2021, 12:22:15 PM
Quote from: George Oscar Bluth II on November 13, 2021, 06:02:58 AM
Very annoying that the BBC calls things "podcasts" that are not available on public podcast feeds and are only available on their own app. Boo.

Especially when some of their programmes are actually available as proper podcasts. Leaves you wondering whether there is a podcast feed somewhere and you just don't know where to look for it. There's a page with a list of "podcasts" but no obvious way of telling which ones have an RSS feed other than clicking on one, then clicking on an episode (upon which the damn thing starts playing immediately), then clicking on the "Programme Website" link, then clicking "Leave this page" on the "Are you sure?" popup, then seeing if the programme website has a Podcast tab.
Title: Re: Things Fell Apart - new Jon Ronson podcast
Post by: George Oscar Bluth II on November 13, 2021, 02:15:00 PM
The app is fine if you want to listen to the football on Five Live while doing the dishes or whatever and the option to download radio shows is welcome but...podcasts are a specific decentralised thing. It's not a 'podcast' if it's Spotify exclusive either.
Title: Re: Things Fell Apart - new Jon Ronson podcast
Post by: olliebean on November 13, 2021, 04:16:04 PM
Just seen on Ronson's twitter that this is apparently being released as a proper podcast early next year.
Title: Re: Things Fell Apart - new Jon Ronson podcast
Post by: Pranet on November 13, 2021, 04:35:00 PM
Quote from: olliebean on November 13, 2021, 12:22:15 PM
Especially when some of their programmes are actually available as proper podcasts. Leaves you wondering whether there is a podcast feed somewhere and you just don't know where to look for it. There's a page with a list of "podcasts" but no obvious way of telling which ones have an RSS feed other than clicking on one, then clicking on an episode (upon which the damn thing starts playing immediately), then clicking on the "Programme Website" link, then clicking "Leave this page" on the "Are you sure?" popup, then seeing if the programme website has a Podcast tab.

This is it. There might well be cost or remit reasons why everything can't be a proper podcast but at least make it easy to know which is which.

This site seems to do the job of the old podcast pages of showing you what is actually available as a podcast and you can specify radio stations.

http://www.listenersguide.org.uk/bbc/?station=radio4
Title: Re: Things Fell Apart - new Jon Ronson podcast
Post by: Mister Six on November 13, 2021, 07:17:36 PM
Quote from: Pranet on November 13, 2021, 07:21:55 AM
He says it is on apple podcasts in the US and Canada.

Bollocks, I don't have an Apple phone either.
Title: Re: Things Fell Apart - new Jon Ronson podcast
Post by: jamiefairlie on November 13, 2021, 07:29:28 PM
Quote from: beanheadmcginty on November 13, 2021, 11:26:38 AM
Little chat between Jon and Ads Curts in the Guardian today:

https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2021/nov/12/jon-ronson-and-adam-curtis-on-the-culture-wars-how-has-this-happened-where-is-the-escape-hatch

Count me as another who thinks BBC Sounds needs to get cunted in the fuck.

Some great insights in that article:

The promotion of narcissism as an aspiration, rather than antisocial state

I got interested in this idea that power now works not through traditional forms but through the idea of individualism; it says you should be allowed to do what you want to do, but we will serve you to get that. You and I both know what it's like to be an obsessive individualist, but we've become intrigued by how that plays out in a society in which you've got lots of people wanting to be individuals

The rise of hysteria in place of pragmatic discussion:

And then journalism lifts off from Planet Real and goes off into the realms of histrionic personality disorder. I actually think histrionic personality disorder describes most of the progressive classes in western societies, in that they've given up on their progressivism and retreated into a histrionic attitude to the world
Title: Re: Things Fell Apart - new Jon Ronson podcast
Post by: Noodle Lizard on November 13, 2021, 08:08:45 PM
Quote from: BritishHobo on November 12, 2021, 09:06:14 PM
I will give this a go, but I'm a bit wary. I loved So You've Been Publicly Shamed, thought it was a really important book - but then his podcast on August Ames' suicide disappointed me, because it felt like a dishonest and reverse-engineered attempt to prove public shaming definitely definitely didn't lead her to it. It's not necessarily that I think he's wrong, it's just that it came off very thin, with conclusions not really supported by the podcast. The cherry on top was the reveal that Ronson had contacted Ames' grieving husband only about a week after her death. Very weird, cynical thing.

Yeah, I remember thinking that as well. It was the perfect project for Ronson; he'd just done a book about public shaming followed by a podcast about the US porn industry, and then here's a real-life tragic story that combines the two! I understand why someone in that position would rush to it, but it's a bit grim and I'm not sure the podcast really "honoured her memory" as such. You can imagine him reading the news and jumping on the phone to his co-producer: "Lina! We can go back to America and start looking at poooooorn again! Something's happened!"

I do, generally, like Ronson though and have enjoyed pretty much everything he's put out. Some of it has aged poorly, but I reckon his heart's more or less in the right place.
Title: Re: Things Fell Apart - new Jon Ronson podcast
Post by: Ferris on November 13, 2021, 08:53:19 PM
Quote from: Mister Six on November 13, 2021, 07:17:36 PM
Bollocks, I don't have an Apple phone either.

I have one, but it's not available yet. No idea why.
Title: Re: Things Fell Apart - new Jon Ronson podcast
Post by: olliebean on November 13, 2021, 10:13:55 PM
Quote from: Pranet on November 13, 2021, 07:21:55 AM
He says it is on apple podcasts in the US and Canada.

Is there a link for it? Apple podcasts run on RSS feeds, but Apple obscures the feed link. There are sites that will take an Apple podcast link and give you the URL of the RSS feed.
Title: Re: Things Fell Apart - new Jon Ronson podcast
Post by: Noodle Lizard on November 13, 2021, 11:55:26 PM
Quote from: Pranet on November 13, 2021, 07:21:55 AM
He says it is on apple podcasts in the US and Canada.

I just checked and it is not.
Title: Re: Things Fell Apart - new Jon Ronson podcast
Post by: Ferris on November 14, 2021, 01:51:48 AM
Not showing for me either. Bastards.
Title: Re: Things Fell Apart - new Jon Ronson podcast
Post by: Ray Travez on November 14, 2021, 10:17:38 AM
I found episode 1 a bit boring. I have to own this- I just don't find the Christian right in America especially interesting. They're pathological and hypocritical, and basically mad in a way that seems highly distasteful. I watched the two Theroux docs about the Phelps guys, and again, they're crazy in a very unappealing way.
Title: Re: Things Fell Apart - new Jon Ronson podcast
Post by: bgmnts on November 14, 2021, 10:22:44 AM
To he fair the Phelps family is probably on the far edge of extremity in terms of Christianity, and are weirdly single issue Christians. Which is a bit boring I suppose.
Title: Re: Things Fell Apart - new Jon Ronson podcast
Post by: Pranet on November 14, 2021, 04:06:20 PM
Quote from: olliebean on November 13, 2021, 10:13:55 PM
Is there a link for it? Apple podcasts run on RSS feeds, but Apple obscures the feed link. There are sites that will take an Apple podcast link and give you the URL of the RSS feed.

The link he gave goes here: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/things-fell-apart-by-jon-ronson/id1592984136?ign-itscg=30200&ign-itsct=bbc_podcasts

But I don't know if that is any use to anyone. It says "Requires subscription" and I don't know what that means. I haven't used itunes for podcasts for a while so I don't know if there is some new stuff involved.
Title: Re: Things Fell Apart - new Jon Ronson podcast
Post by: Ferris on November 14, 2021, 05:10:33 PM
Quote from: Pranet on November 14, 2021, 04:06:20 PM
The link he gave goes here: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/things-fell-apart-by-jon-ronson/id1592984136?ign-itscg=30200&ign-itsct=bbc_podcasts

But I don't know if that is any use to anyone. It says "Requires subscription" and I don't know what that means. I haven't used itunes for podcasts for a while so I don't know if there is some new stuff involved.

Yeah that just gives me the option to pay for bbc podcasts. It's a mystery, looks like I'll just wait.
Title: Re: Things Fell Apart - new Jon Ronson podcast
Post by: mr. logic on November 14, 2021, 07:04:26 PM
Quote from: Noodle Lizard on November 13, 2021, 08:08:45 PM
Yeah, I remember thinking that as well. It was the perfect project for Ronson; he'd just done a book about public shaming followed by a podcast about the US porn industry, and then here's a real-life tragic story that combines the two! I understand why someone in that position would rush to it, but it's a bit grim and I'm not sure the podcast really "honoured her memory" as such. You can imagine him reading the news and jumping on the phone to his co-producer: "Lina! We can go back to America and start looking at poooooorn again! Something's happened!"

I do, generally, like Ronson though and have enjoyed pretty much everything he's put out. Some of it has aged poorly, but I reckon his heart's more or less in the right place.

Doesn't Lisa Ann make this point to him? I remember the interview being pretty tense, but can't reAlly recall the details.
Title: Re: Things Fell Apart - new Jon Ronson podcast
Post by: Noodle Lizard on November 14, 2021, 07:12:52 PM
Quote from: mr. logic on November 14, 2021, 07:04:26 PM
Doesn't Lisa Ann make this point to him? I remember the interview being pretty tense, but can't reAlly recall the details.

Neither can I, I'm afraid. I only listened to it the once when it came out. But yeah, I do remember some people getting a bit testy with him (including August's husband, obviously).
Title: Re: Things Fell Apart - new Jon Ronson podcast
Post by: greenman on November 15, 2021, 03:37:18 AM
Quote from: beanheadmcginty on November 13, 2021, 11:26:38 AM
Little chat between Jon and Ads Curts in the Guardian today:

https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2021/nov/12/jon-ronson-and-adam-curtis-on-the-culture-wars-how-has-this-happened-where-is-the-escape-hatch

Count me as another who thinks BBC Sounds needs to get cunted in the fuck.

Really the final point I think makes the most sense rather than the idea of "activist journalists".

An environment were the right and the centre manufacture conflict to minimalise the chance of genuinely progressive left wing voices being heard. The BBC might generally be centralist but its idea of compromise is to give a voice to extreme transphobia as more legitimate than say the idea allegations of antisemitism against Corbyns labour being dishonestly weaponised.

The hysteria around Trump he mentioned really I'd say most of it was actually defensive, a way for centralists to avoid having to face Clintons failure and resorting to conspiracy theory.

Title: Re: Things Fell Apart - new Jon Ronson podcast
Post by: Pranet on November 24, 2021, 12:15:25 PM
The music from this goes around my head when I am feeling sad or anxious.
Title: Re: Things Fell Apart - new Jon Ronson podcast
Post by: katzenjammer on November 30, 2021, 09:17:17 AM
Quote from: Mister Six on November 12, 2021, 08:50:36 PMAnnoyingly, this isn't available in the US, at least on the Sounds app or BBC website. Anyone got a clever workaround?

Even my usual VPN isn't working for some reason, but I'd rather listen to it on my phone anyway.

The Free VPN IOS app worked for me. I did have to watch a couple of adverts for it to actually be free though
Title: Re: Things Fell Apart - new Jon Ronson podcast
Post by: Mister Six on November 30, 2021, 02:16:13 PM
Hm, I'll see if there's an Amazon version. Thanks!
Title: Re: Things Fell Apart - new Jon Ronson podcast
Post by: icehaven on November 30, 2021, 09:18:07 PM
Quote from: Pranet on November 24, 2021, 12:15:25 PMThe music from this goes around my head when I am feeling sad or anxious.

The high tinkly piano music? I'm sure I've heard it somewhere else but it might just be my unreliable memory. There's some other bits that sound like they could be from NIN's Still but I haven't listened to it for ages.
Title: Re: Things Fell Apart - new Jon Ronson podcast
Post by: Retinend on December 01, 2021, 09:11:51 AM
Just starting this. I just know this is right up my alley - and a fitting sequel to "So You've Been Publicly Shamed" - after the slight rehash that was "The Last Days of August".

I'm already loving how this begins with this weird Christian art historian documentary thing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Schaeffer) and the beginnings of the abortion "debate" (war?). Already I can see how injured pride (I mean reaction to Roe vs Wade, in this case) can galvanize a people and drive them into radicalization - something common to all radicalization, as far as I can tell. It also shows the power of the documentary format to persuade people that they have seen the truth.
Title: Re: Things Fell Apart - new Jon Ronson podcast
Post by: Pranet on December 01, 2021, 11:21:22 AM
Quote from: icehaven on November 30, 2021, 09:18:07 PMThe high tinkly piano music? I'm sure I've heard it somewhere else but it might just be my unreliable memory. There's some other bits that sound like they could be from NIN's Still but I haven't listened to it for ages.

That's it the piano music at the start and the end, and sometimes in the middle.
Title: Re: Things Fell Apart - new Jon Ronson podcast
Post by: Mobbd on December 01, 2021, 03:21:49 PM
Don't know if this is just me but when I hear "culture wars" I think of squabbles about whether Doctor Who should be a woman or not (and for a show about culture wars to go into what those arguments really mean beyond the surface level).

But the topics Ronson has looked into so far are important conversations about, for example, when the cut-off should be for abortion and at what age kids should be taught sex education. Is all that stuff really "culture wars?" The right-wing Christian protesters he profiles aren't trying to change opinion or shift the Overton Window through cultural production. They're protesting and campaigning, as is their right, and it's surely up to the more liberal mainstream to address their concerns through open debate and discussion. Or, you know, to shut the cunts down when they get into the territory of hate speech.

Aaaanyway, I have long admired Ronson's mild-mannered even-handedness as a way to gain insight into oddball points of view but the conversations he's having in this show don't really come up with much. It's hard to see the perspective of someone who campaigned against the inclusion of books by Black writers in school libraries. He doesn't show "another side" of her at all so his even-handedness just looks a bit odd.

To be honest, I miss the sugared pill of Jon's earlier stuff. Comparing these episodes about right-wing Christians with, say, the "Kidneys for Jesus" story or the one about rebranding the KKK makes me miss that sense of levity and the way it was actually successful in eliciting a modicum of sympathy. If he wants to close the gap on culture wars, to make Liberal podcast-listeners see the other side, he might want to go back to his earlier tack. Maybe he's worried about looking flippant? I'm not sure what prompted the gear change after The Psychopath Test.
Title: Re: Things Fell Apart - new Jon Ronson podcast
Post by: Mobbd on December 01, 2021, 04:28:46 PM
A little more about the even-handedness I mentioned above and whether or not it comes up with the goods on this occasion. This is from the Adam Curtis & Jon Ronson conversation linked to earlier:

QuoteJR I like to steer clear of conflict as much as I can.

AC Which is good and also rare. Most people would pursue her with their agenda. Right now, everyone is judged as either being good or bad. It's good versus evil – that's where journalism has got to now. But yours doesn't do that.

JR I'm interested in everybody as a human being and I'm quite startled by the myriad examples of the media being a part of the culture wars. It seems to happen everywhere, this mistelling of a story so it fits into a particular ideology a little more clearly. It happens on all sides.

The story that prompted these reflections on Jon's work concerns an Evangelical Minister's wife who campaigned against a school's curriculum being too liberal, caused a lot of dangerous mayhem, and was ultimately driven back into her pit. Those seem to be the facts of the story and those are the facts Jon presents to us on the podcast. I'm not sure how this shows us another side to this person, as having any other agenda than showing her as "bad"/"evil" (in AC's terms). Where is the other side? Is there one?

I'm not sure Jon has ever been part of the non-partisan, dispassionate media. His work is highly stylised. He is very liberal in agenda and usually has an angle. In his older work, the subject matter happened to be his pet subject of fringe oddness and the angle was something like "look at this, this is a curious point of view, it might amuse you."

Later in the JR/AC interview, they talk about self-expression being our modern conformity. This might be true but JR and AC have never been an antitheses to this. It's how we know their names, their voices and faces, and why we get excited when one of them releases another thing. They, perhaps more than any other journalist currently working, use journalism as a creative art and they put their names all over it. Quite often, the real story isn't "the KKK are rebranding" but rather "look at Jon, he's in another pickle." They have become famous and successful because of their commitment to self-expression in an area where it is neither expected or necessary.

I like both of these people but some of this is a bit rich.
Title: Re: Things Fell Apart - new Jon Ronson podcast
Post by: icehaven on December 07, 2021, 09:13:03 PM
New episode, and apparently the first internet cancelling was in the early 80s. Wellinever.
Title: Re: Things Fell Apart - new Jon Ronson podcast
Post by: Ambient Sheep on December 07, 2021, 11:27:19 PM
Just seen this:

https://twitter.com/jonronson/status/1468348539814219781

Quotejon ronson
@jonronson

Oh! I should say that every episode of Things Fell Apart has about five extra minutes in the podcast / bbc sounds version. Five golden minutes.

10:35 PM · Dec 7, 2021 · Twitter for iPhone

Quotejon ronson
@jonronson

And my pinned tweets explain how you can / will soon be able to listen to it.

10:53 PM · Dec 7, 2021 · Twitter for iPhone

I mean, most people here will probably be listening that way anyway, but just in case anybody IS listening over the air, thought it worth mentioning.
Title: Re: Things Fell Apart - new Jon Ronson podcast
Post by: icehaven on December 15, 2021, 07:24:22 PM
Current episode is fairly pertinent, although it's so short it barely scratches the surface. I do wish these were longer
Title: Re: Things Fell Apart - new Jon Ronson podcast
Post by: Mobbd on December 16, 2021, 03:26:02 PM
I'm not sure about the usefulness or even the truth of this "it was started by people trying to help" theme.

So a Trans area was set up in a women-only feminist festival and, when they tried to expand it to include "pre-op" women, they were hounded out by TERFs (a non-derogatory term coined by a blogger to help make sense if this moment). So... what are we saying exactly? That the Trans women looking out for their pre-op sisters shouldn't have done so? That there never should have been a Trans presence at all? That the blogger who came up with "TERF" shouldn't have done so? That nobody should try to help with anything or even name or identify a cultural trend in case it makes things worse? I honestly don't know what is being said here. Anyone?

I'm not even sure how finding the roots of these strands of the culture wars is supposed to help. I am not sure what to do with this origin story. Interesting to get it all down, I suppose, but I expect it already was.
Title: Re: Things Fell Apart - new Jon Ronson podcast
Post by: icehaven on December 16, 2021, 04:50:19 PM
I don't think anything's being said as such,  he's not presenting an angle at all (well as much as there can ever not be). Might seem a bit pointless but then it's not necessarily aimed at people who already know all about it. That's why I think these would be better if they were longer, and it's better when there's more voices involved too, like with the Satanic panic one where there were several interviewees from different sides of the issue. This latest one really felt like a section of a longer episode.
Title: Re: Things Fell Apart - new Jon Ronson podcast
Post by: Mobbd on December 16, 2021, 11:41:38 PM
Quote from: icehaven on December 16, 2021, 04:50:19 PMThat's why I think these would be better if they were longer, and it's better when there's more voices involved too, like with the Satanic panic one where there were several interviewees from different sides of the issue. This latest one really felt like a section of a longer episode.

I think that's absolutely spot on.
Title: Re: Things Fell Apart - new Jon Ronson podcast
Post by: gilbertharding on December 17, 2021, 11:53:23 AM
Quote from: icehaven on December 15, 2021, 07:24:22 PMCurrent episode is fairly pertinent, although it's so short it barely scratches the surface. I do wish these were longer

There's a mostly brilliant podcast called You're Wrong About... which you've probably heard already. Anyway, it's very good on the history of these moral panics.
Title: Re: Things Fell Apart - new Jon Ronson podcast
Post by: paruses on December 17, 2021, 07:25:12 PM
Thanks for recommending that. Have downloaded a handful to get started on. I skipped the first one though which is Satanic Panic as it seems to have been done to death.
Title: Re: Things Fell Apart - new Jon Ronson podcast
Post by: gilbertharding on December 20, 2021, 11:30:42 AM
Things Fell Apart was discussed on the Radio 4 programme Feedback yesterday.
Title: Re: Things Fell Apart - new Jon Ronson podcast
Post by: thugler on December 20, 2021, 06:18:34 PM
Quote from: Mobbd on December 16, 2021, 03:26:02 PMI'm not sure about the usefulness or even the truth of this "it was started by people trying to help" theme.

So a Trans area was set up in a women-only feminist festival and, when they tried to expand it to include "pre-op" women, they were hounded out by TERFs (a non-derogatory term coined by a blogger to help make sense if this moment). So... what are we saying exactly? That the Trans women looking out for their pre-op sisters shouldn't have done so? That there never should have been a Trans presence at all? That the blogger who came up with "TERF" shouldn't have done so? That nobody should try to help with anything or even name or identify a cultural trend in case it makes things worse? I honestly don't know what is being said here. Anyone?

I'm not even sure how finding the roots of these strands of the culture wars is supposed to help. I am not sure what to do with this origin story. Interesting to get it all down, I suppose, but I expect it already was.

I don't think any of those is 'the point' more it's about how this issue unfolded in the particular way that it did, and how aspects of that story tell us about the way things have spiraled, perhaps unnecessarily. Anyway i noticed some terfs on twitter furious about him covering the issue unfairly to them. Which tells you all you need to know about how unreasonable they are. It's certainly his biggest strength and weakness they he's unwilling to get into it on certain issues. It works to his advantage sometikes.
Title: Re: Things Fell Apart - new Jon Ronson podcast
Post by: idunnosomename on December 21, 2021, 12:08:31 PM
The theme for this sounds like Prokovfiev's Montagues and Capulets but on a bad acid trip. It makes me feel a bit ill.
Title: Re: Things Fell Apart - new Jon Ronson podcast
Post by: BritishHobo on December 31, 2021, 08:39:21 AM
The woman in the last episode who says
Spoiler alert
she couldn't get through all of So You've Been Publicly Shamed because she was 'so disgusted'
[close]
is absolutely astonishing. It really does belie a very deliberately narrow mindset that some very extreme people have, whereby they just have to make themselves believe that they're angry about things, even when deep down they're probably not, because to admit otherwise would let in the steady drips of nuance that would force them to concede that actually their crusades are often disproportionate.

I think I would hazard a guess that there's quite a lot of people out there, whether it's in the audience at contentious school board meetings, or hanging around trending tags on Twitter, who aren't actually fully on board with some of the dafter controversies their 'tribe' take against. But continue acting as if they are, because if they admitted they weren't, they would have to start questioning other tenets. Considering other campaigns they were a part of, where the target, who they currently think of as a deserving villain, might actually be more worthy of empathy than they've been saying.
Title: Re: Things Fell Apart - new Jon Ronson podcast
Post by: Mobbd on January 16, 2022, 04:19:41 PM
Is this... finished? I think it might be finished.

Saw something about it appearing on other platforms now and there does indeed seem to be one measly episode in Apple Podcasts from BBC Radio 4.
Title: Re: Things Fell Apart - new Jon Ronson podcast
Post by: Ferris on January 16, 2022, 05:06:36 PM
To be honest I've lost interest. I've seen the episode topics and descriptions trailed so much I feel like I've basically heard it. Can't be arsed now.

It helps that I have a few Ronson audiobooks so now I can read anything in his accent. Go on type something, with a bit of effort I can hear his dulcet tones as I parse it.