Unpopular comedians (on CaB) you actually quite like

[checkoutgirl]

Angelos Epithemiou - I just find the character really funny. The mannerisms are brilliant. He's best in small doses but he was the best thing about the recent Shooting Stars series, and his online videos are fantastic, particularly the one where he moves to France. His stand-up was crap though, it doesn't work as an hour-long show, it gets a bit much.

I'm not going to argue with you on most of these because that's the point of the thread but I honestly don't get Angelos Epithemiou. I can't see why he's supposed to be funny. He doesn't really tell any jokes or make any funny observations or do anything even remotely amusing. Could you maybe put a Youtube link of a clip or two that you think would represent his best and funniest moments. I want to get to the bottom of this.

I think he detracted from Shooting Stars if anything, although I was never a big fan of that show, the clips were the only good bit.

[checkoutgirl]

I'm probably just a quite qunt, but I'd still be interested in why you (or anyone else) likes him.  He's not crashingly unfunny, just not funny, either.

To me Rhod Gilbert is an average to goodish stand up comedian who shouts a lot. And I mean a lot. I've watched one or two of his DVDs and he shouts through routines about hoovers and sinks for a solid hour and change. I don't think he's overcompensating for bad material, it's just his style. If he talked normally his comedy wouldn't come out. I remember commenting about him shouting while watching the DVD and it is an exhausting comedy approach, the increasing exasperation approach that Dave Gorman sometimes uses. Exasperation is a comedy short cut, although it's not necessarily a bad thing.

[Ignatius_S]

There is/was a school of thought that he had begun to pander to the knuckle-dragging element of fans who didn't get the joke and just came to his shows to cheer him slating the Germans.

I'll post more when I have a bit more time (and I wanted to respond to your previous post) but I'm fairly certain that the reception to Murray's ITV sketch show was pretty much hostile and a fair bit of the antipathy was on a personal level. I didn't contribute to that thread but was quite surprised by what I saw, when I later read it as the show (IIRC) got the bum's rush completely. However, in keeping with this thead, I rather liked it.

I quite like

Garth Marenghi's Dark Place
Man to Man With Dean Learner (dodgy in places though and 1 or 2 episodes are duds)
The Mighty Boosh (including Fielding, I'm not hiding behind Barratt on this)
Spaced (one of the best comedy shows ever, can't understand CAB disapproval)
Hippies (perfect for Pegg)
Hyperdrive (perfect for Frost, a well cast show)
Season 10 Simpsons (so fucking sue me)
Cyderdelic (love that mockumentary, featuring CAB hated Marc Wooton)

As I languish in my mid thirties I find myself less and less bothered about stand up comedy, I'm sure there's a few I've liked over the years that would be met with all round disapproval on here, I saw Ruphus Hound in a support slot a few years ago and laughed heartily for instance.

I don't think I've seen a bad word about Hippies and a lot of people loved Spaced – although I would say that there's more criticism of the latter there used to be.

Some here have liked the other shows – although I seem to remember a consistent approach to Cyderdelic being 'it stinks' at the time, gradually the occasional poster expressed a liking and now when it is mentioned, it seems to be because someone is giving it the thumbs-up. Although Wooton was something of a whipping of CaB whipping-boy, I think these days people tend to like him (to an extent) or just don't care.

Actually, I think how some of these shows demonstrate how attitudes change over time on forums –the taste of people may change and/or there are new posters, who have different opinions.

[Utter Shit]

I'm not going to argue with you on most of these because that's the point of the thread but I honestly don't get Angelos Epithemiou. I can't see why he's supposed to be funny. He doesn't really tell any jokes or make any funny observations or do anything even remotely amusing. Could you maybe put a Youtube link of a clip or two that you think would represent his best and funniest moments. I want to get to the bottom of this.

I think he detracted from Shooting Stars if anything, although I was never a big fan of that show, the clips were the only good bit.

This is probably my favourite clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-iqMCdjb_0

Like I said before, it's mainly his mannerisms and turns of phrase that make me laugh.

[checkoutgirl]

David McSavage

I doubt most of CAB even know who this guy is but the first time I ever saw him he was busking in Temple Bar in Dublin and basically abusing passers by with his comedy/being a wanker. I remember looking over and thinking he was a total cunt for putting people on the spot like that, he was really giving some people a hard time. The next time I saw him was on the Late Late Show where he did some bad comedy about the English (traditionally, a lot of Irish comedian's material has been been based on hating the hun). I thought it was rubbish.

Then a few years ago I was watching something he had come up with, a sketch show (again based on the English) called The Savage Eye and I was blown away by how good it was. Completely obsessed with Ireland and its relationship to England but top notch stuff all the same. I could never have guessed that this apparent hack had this quality show in him but you live and learn.

[checkoutgirl]

Oh, Nathan Barley. I'm an unapolgetic fan of that. I've probably watched the series 3 or 4 times and I really like it. I was actually really surprised that CAB didn't like it but there you go. I think I actually like Nathan despite him being a complete tosser. I don't think I'd like to hang around with him if he existed but as twatty as he is, I like him as a character and I also liked Barratt as the trapped and constantly having to sell his soul journalist who is idolised by the very people he mocks and despised. And the little names like Dave Bakinis and Jonothan Yeah? And I absolutely loved The Divine David in the Dave Stewart piss take role of Doug Rocket.

[Barry Admin]

If you can't get any enjoyment out of at least some of the people on that list, well that's a shame for you. I'd hate to have an incredibly high pass mark for what I find funny - as long as you're willing and able to enjoy stuff that is high-end, intelligent humour, there's nothing wrong with finding space for things that are gentle, or silly, or downright, wilfully stupid as well.

Wearing your 'discernment' as a badge of honour is sort of like boasting about being able to drink ten pints without getting drunk - congratulations, you have to spend a shitload of money to get the same feeling everyone else gets for half the price. If I (and people like me) liked those comics because I was too stupid to understand the best comedy, then maybe it would be something to look down your nose about. The fact that you're willing to give Lee Evans a pass out of all of those makes it all the stranger, as he is the one with the most shoddy justification - his material is often outright awful, far worse than anything the rest of them come up with.

You appear to be the only person really doing that in this thread, though.  It's peppered right through this very same post which simultaneously decries the practice. 

It always strikes me as quite a weak standpoint if you have to question the other guy's honesty in stating his opinions, rather than the opinions themselves.

Again, you seem to be the one who is repeatedly guilty of this:

Is it better to be (by the measurements of others) easily-pleased but also able to enjoy the 'finer things', or to enjoy only the best things with a self-satisfied grin on your face?

People aren't "giving Lee Evans" a pass, they/I just enjoy him.  c.f. Depressed Beyond Tables' rather excellently rousing defence of subjectivity being a natural by-product of different life experiences and values.  To be quite candid, my brain is a fucking mess of procrastination and hyperactivity, and only new, interesting experiences trigger the obsessive hyperfocus I find so thrilling and life-affirming.  This is something I actually struggle with, rather than self-satisfied, chin-strokey posturing.



Believe me, I'd quite enjoy being able to find a lot of value and enjoyment in trite, hacky observations that I've heard a million times before, but... I just can't.  I lust after, and need, originality and profundity.  And if old subjects, jokes and tropes are just endlessly recycled instead, then I require them to have some kind of new and interesting spin, Graham Linehan.

No offenc, but your ranting seems to be borne of a certain amount of insecurity over your tastes - and the presumed judgement of them by a supposed consensus amongst your peers - which then causes you to reflexively and pre-emptively pull down the status of these imagined critics, and I don't think that's at all necessary. 

I think we both hate dogma/black and white thinking with equal fervour, Utter Shit, and it's sadly a very common trait amongst obsessive fans of anything, and something I've had to fight hard against within myself over the years, but let's not pretend that's the only reason someone would hate something you hold dear.  With Frankie Boyle, for instance, I can enjoy some of the material, but still find him to be one of the most charmless, stiff and ineffectual performers I've ever laid eyes on. 

[Thursday]

Remember when Frankie Boyle did a "green mile" sketch where he couldn't move his face enough to look sad which meant he had a completely blank face but with fake tears rolling down his cheeks.

Best thing he's ever done.

[checkoutgirl]

With Frankie Boyle, for instance, I can enjoy some of the material, but still find him to be one of the most charmless, stiff and ineffectual performers I've ever laid eyes on.

I agree, Boyle has some decent stand up material and a decent delivery but his stand up persona seems really contemptible over the last few years. His sketch show was beyond embarrassing. When I first saw him on The Live Floor Show about 10 years ago I liked what I saw but he frittered away any good will I had for him by repeatedly acting like a cunt for no reason. Picking on people who don't deserve it. He's an asshole.

[Depressed Beyond Tables]

There is an element of that in my posting in Comedy Chat in general, I freely admit that the hyperbole on here annoys me. That doesn't apply in this instance though, this thread is specifically about people you like. I wouldn't have bothered writing as much as I did if I didn't believe what I was saying. I've qualified a few of the examples by saying I'm not a fan of all their work, or that I'm only a casual fan.

I have one or more DVDs of Carr, Boyle, Gervais, Murray, Bridges, Evans, Flanagan and Gilbert, have paid to see Whitehall (albeit as part of a Komedia three-act set before he was huge, we wouldn't have paid top whack to see him on his own but £10 for him and two others was fine - he was the headline act and stormed it btw) and have both seen O'Briain live and have a couple of his DVDs. I think I had Bo Selecta at one point but either lost it or gave it away, as I don't have it any more. So yeah, that completes the set, except for Epithemiou who I tried and failed to get tickets to see last year.

I don't really think your ability to pay for something has a massive connection to it really, most of those DVDs were bought when I was a teenager earning far more than I should have been while still living at home, money had no real value to me. I'm far more attached to my music collection, which I have almost exclusively downloaded illegally and paid nothing for.

It always strikes me as quite a weak standpoint if you have to question the other guy's honesty in stating his opinions, rather than the opinions themselves.

Well I am surprised you have spent money on those things, and I mean that without any sarcasm at all (which is not easy on the net).

To me, what you are prepared to spend does show some value in an age where much of this material is readily available for free. It's often a token of support, or an addition to a treasured collection. Stewart Lee, for example, would be homeless were it not for the sympathy of his fans.

As for questioning my weak standpoint, fire ahead. I thought you were being argumentative for argument's sake, turns out you weren't. You simply like all those comedians. Good for you.

Head over to isohunt and fill your boots, son.

[Utter Shit]

I illegally download a lot of stuff too, it just so happens that the majority of the ones that have come up here are from years ago when I was more into buying DVDs!

[Famous Mortimer]

From watching some Al Murray live stuff, I was struck by how un-ironic most of his pretty backward material seemed. I think we've had this debate before, and I know he's obviously a smart man, but the Pub Landlord just never worked for me.

[Sony Walkman Prophecies]

Frankie Boyle and graffic.

[Deanjam]

Loved Boyle on Mock the Week, but less so his stand up (especially as so much of it was already used on MTW). There are some good cracks on Celebrity Juice which makes me keep watching it. So I'd agree with Leigh Francis there.

What's people's thoughts on Hi-de-Hi? It seems to not be fondly remembered in other places, but I love the Geoffrey Fairbrother years. Also really liked You Rang m'Lord.

I also like 8 out of 10 cats, which I think some people here don't like.

[Custard]

I'd say the first two series of Mighty Boosh are alright, too. Especially the desert island episode

But that third series. No, no, no

[Noodle Lizard]

Frankie Boyle was the only reason I watched 'Mock The Week' really (save for the occasional decent guest like David Mitchell).  Off-the-cuff, he's one of the better comedians I know of, a bit like Jim Norton (whose stand-up is also not great, coincidentally, maybe there's a pattern here).  Of course, with 'Mock The Week', you can never be sure how much is actually off-the-cuff.  Not very much, in all likelihood.

[Chichester Cathedral]

Like I said before, it's mainly his mannerisms and turns of phrase that make me laugh.

I don't mind his turns of phrase, but his mannerisms always felt a bit too disabled to me. I know they could probably say "He's not disabled, he's just awkward", but it put me right off. Maybe his material is great, but I can never get past him 'acting the retard'.

Maybe it's completely unintentional and I'm just picking him up wrong.

[Petey Pate]

Again I find it difficult to align the forum's dislike of Boyle with a love of, say, Sadowitz, who does more or less the same thing.

I've never understood the argument that Sadowitz and Boyle are more or less the same.  I'm sure Sadowitz even recognises this despite him attacking Boyle for being a "tribute act", and Boyle claims to have never seen or been influenced by Sadowitz's act.  They're both Scottish and say offensive things, but the connection doesn't go much further than these superficialities.  For one thing, Boyle's rarely targets anything other than 'accepted' victims such as Katie Price or Heather Mills; he would never do material that's out and out racist or claim to admire rapists or defend Gadaffi as Sadowitz has done.  Boyle's delivery is pretty standard, competent joke telling, whereas Sadowitz is a terrifying stage presence that constantly swears and shouts.  Crucially, Sadowitz's comedy is much more layered.  There's the element of 'failed traditional entertainer gone berserk' represented by the top hat and magic, and he goes out of his way to present himself as a complete loser and that the audience never sides with him.  You're left wondering how much of the act is what Sadowitz genuinely believes or not, whereas with Boyle there's the constant cheeky grin that assures the audience "this is all ironic".  Outside of his comedy, Boyle presents himself as a modest liberal and decent person, whereas Sadowitz makes no claim to be anything other than a cunt.

[Rolf Lundgren]

Dave Gorman got a kicking on here the other week but I'm a fan. His Are You Dave Gorman and Googlewhack shows were both great and his Modern Life is Goodish shows have been brilliant so far. As a stand-up he's an engaging storyteller and his willingness to go at things full pelt sets him apart from similar types of comedians. 

[Danger Man]

I've never understood the argument that Sadowitz and Boyle are more or less the same.

Boyle appears on state television. Sadowitz doesn't. 

Any questions?

[Mini]

Dave Gorman got a kicking on here the other week but I'm a fan. His Are You Dave Gorman and Googlewhack shows were both great and his Modern Life is Goodish shows have been brilliant so far. As a stand-up he's an engaging storyteller and his willingness to go at things full pelt sets him apart from similar types of comedians.

I agree, and also I love Robin Ince.

[Old Thrashbarg]

Yeah looking at those you could be right. I think sometimes we (I) mistake the voracity of a handful of opinions for general consensus. Quality over quantity if you like.

You also seem to forget that, when railing against the perceived consensus, you're as big a part of this community as anyone. And, certainly in Comedy Chat, a bigger part than most.

[Bored of Canada]

Oh, Nathan Barley. I'm an unapolgetic fan of that. I've probably watched the series 3 or 4 times and I really like it. I was actually really surprised that CAB didn't like it but there you go. I think I actually like Nathan despite him being a complete tosser. I don't think I'd like to hang around with him if he existed but as twatty as he is, I like him as a character and I also liked Barratt as the trapped and constantly having to sell his soul journalist who is idolised by the very people he mocks and despised. And the little names like Dave Bakinis and Jonothan Yeah? And I absolutely loved The Divine David in the Dave Stewart piss take role of Doug Rocket.

I've always loved the fifth episode of that. Though I'm a sucker for Julian Barratt investigating the Straight-Gay subculture by wanking off a tradie with an oven-mit.
The plotline with Nathan Barley trying to kickstart the underage coke-addicted girl with Bonobo's Syndrome, whilst obviously trying to have sex with her was also a solid throughline. A shiny tooth in a gob of so-so teeth. I've been meaning to give Nathan Barley another go now I know what to expect. I'm hoping I'll enjoy it more.

It is definitely good though. Possibly even Chris Morris' finest work, predicting the Hipster movement whilst also providing this photo:
NSFW.
http://images.dangerousminds.net/uploads/images/15Peter20portaitofDavidBowie.jpg

Seriously, the amount of work Chris Morris got out of those erect urethral strap-ons shows what a good business investment they were. 

[up_the_hampipe]

I loved Nathan Barley. It gave me the unending amusement of seeing Stephen Mangan as a porn actor http://youtu.be/HmJV6yavqps

[Thomas]

Enjoyer of Nathan Barley (and The Mighty Boosh) here also. It helps that I think Julian Barratt is an excellent man.

Though I'm a sucker for Julian Barratt investigating the Straight-Gay subculture by wanking off a tradie with an oven-mit.

Ho-ho-ho.

[Bored of Canada]

Ho-ho-ho.

Oral Sex and Mutual Masturbation are two separate acts, Thomas. Be a bit mature.

_{I bet you're not even 18.}

[Custard]

It is definitely good though. Possibly even Chris Morris' finest work, predicting the Hipster movement whilst also providing this photo:
NSFW.
http://images.dangerousminds.net/uploads/images/15Peter20portaitofDavidBowie.jpg

The more you look at that, the funnier it gets

[thenoise]

Karl Pilkington - always interesting to listen to even if he's not consistantly hilarious.  Most of the radio shows contain a couple of gems from this man, and makes it worth sitting through Gervais and Merchant (who are ok, if occasionally a bit too nasty).  Gervais's 'discovery' of this man was his finest contribution to comedy IMO, and it was smart and humble of him, in spite of his arrogant public image, to take on the 'straight man' role on the radio, to allow us to appreciate Karl.
I like 'Idiot Abroad' too, and that thing where he interviews people.  I hope we get to see more of him on TV.

Monkey Dust - My favourite of the 'dark' comedies that were so fashionable at the time.  I remember it being slated on here for being too self-consciously dark-by-numbers, but I don't agree.  There were lots of great ideas in it, and a pretty high hit-rate of sketches.  The exception being that stupid rabbit in the 3rd series obviously.  And I'm generally a fan of British comedy animation (I could also defend I Am Not An Animal, which deserves to be better remembered), wish there was more of it about.

Stephen Fry - Can't understand the hatred this man inspires in some people here.  He's interesting, amusing, charming, intelligent etc.  He's a bit of a workaholic, and has long given up 'proper' comedy, but he is at least a cut above the standard 'TV personality' for sure.  QI was a great idea and remains pretty watchable considering how long it's been going on now.  He was great in Absolute Power.  Can't remember what else but he's always a likeable host/guest/...
I never read twitter, so maybe he's awful on there, but that's easily avoided and won't stop me enjoying his TV work.

[up_the_hampipe]

Gervais's 'discovery' of this man was his finest contribution to comedy IMO, and it was smart and humble of him, in spite of his arrogant public image, to take on the 'straight man' role on the radio, to allow us to appreciate Karl.

I guess, but I think he cancels that out by calling the cartoon and podcasts "The Ricky Gervais Show", even though it's really about Karl. To me, that name just makes me think Ricky is going "remember, I'm responsible for this hilarity, it's all down to me really".

[Ignatius_S]

....Monkey Dust - My favourite of the 'dark' comedies that were so fashionable at the time.  I remember it being slated on here for being too self-consciously dark-by-numbers, but I don't agree.  There were lots of great ideas in it, and a pretty high hit-rate of sketches.  The exception being that stupid rabbit in the 3rd series obviously.  And I'm generally a fan of British comedy animation (I could also defend I Am Not An Animal, which deserves to be better remembered), wish there was more of it about.....

I suspect the initial reaction was part of a backlash against dark comedy that was felt in vogue at that time – so whatever was seen as part of that fashion was going to be treated a lot more harshly.

However, later posts were a lot more positive – if, for nothing else, because several years later, most people would prefer to talk about shows they liked from that period, than ones they didn't.

Couple of links – one is a look back to Monkey Dust, where people tended to like it (also, there's a link to a discussion about dark comedy, which might be interesting): http://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=20207.0

The other is the Full English thread -  http://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=33499.90 – which I've included as Monkey Dust does get mentioned in animation threads from time to time. I'm sure I've commented about the show in other threads, but my opinion would be as here – it's a show that I liked a lot, but thought the final series experienced a massive drop-off in quality, so much so that I wished they had finished after the second.