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The Binding Of Isaac (Afterbirth Plus)

Started by Shay Chaise, March 25, 2017, 02:19:36 PM

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Eight Taiwanese Teenagers

I too was confused but having fun on this yesterday evening. Keep finding these battery looking things and having no idea what I'm supposed to be doing with them.

robotam

Batteries recharge your current usable item.

Kelvin, some of those things you'll work out soon enough. I'm on my phone but I'll type out a more detailed response to you when I get home if no one else has. It's hard to know what to say without spoiling anything. But this is the game I play the most and I'm still finding new things. There's a lot of content.

Shay Chaise

First tip is turn on the HUD. It'll show you some more of the key stat changes that different items give you, like damage, tear rate and walking speed. It'll also show you all the stuff you've picked up along the way. There are about 800 items in the game which affect various things, and it'll help you gradually get familiar with some common effects.

Beyond that, the more you play, the more areas you'll unlock so a successful run at this stage will probably take twenty to twenty five minutes. Once you've unlocked everything, it'll take probably forty five minutes on average. The more you win, the more items you'll unlock so the item pool will grow, increasing the variety of each subsequent run.

There are also loads of hidden extras and mechanics. If you see a block with an X on it, blow it up. There are also secret rooms if you blow up walls. You'll gamble on when to use a key to open a chest which might give you a bomb to blow up a rock to get two more keys, etc.

In brief though, at first there are five levels before you complete a successful run. You may not do this for several hours.

You may well spoil the odd thing but I did find www.platinumgod.co.uk really useful, as it tells you the exact effects for each item, which helps with buying stuff or when you may have to choose between items. I tend not to use it now because I'm happy to find out the effects by testing things out but it's really useful until you're comfortable with a good chunk of the item pool.

madhair60

Just play the game until you feel as though you basically get it. Avoid spoiling item effects, especially in the early game because it will detract from the feeling of discovery. The game gates content really well and will drip feed you new shit at a less-than-overwhelming rate. Seriously, just play.

robotam

Quote from: Kelvin on September 08, 2017, 11:27:28 AM
It's not clear to me what I'm supposed to be doing yet.

Donating a few coins to the donation machine in the shop every run is not a bad idea. This carries over. Also trying to unlock the other characters should be a goal.

I just looked at the challenges that are unlocked from the start "It's in the cards" seems like it would be quite easy (Note ZL uses item, ZR flips between the two cards you are currently holding). That way you can see what (relatively) later floors are like. Also the reward for that challenge is that a good item is added to the item pool.

Quote from: Kelvin on September 08, 2017, 11:27:28 AM
Do you start from the very beginning every time you die?
Pretty much.

Quote from: Kelvin on September 08, 2017, 11:27:28 AM
Do you get a higher chance of better drops once you complete it or something? The game explains absolutely fuck all, it seems. Half the time I'm picking up items I can't seem to use, or seeing objects I have no way of reaching. Do subsequent runs add abilities to your repertoire? I'm totally confused at the moment.
Just experiment with different items and combinations. Once you complete it a couple of times you'll be grand.

Kelvin

Lot's of very useful tips, there, everyone. Thanks.

Quote from: Shay Chaise on September 08, 2017, 03:02:44 PM
Beyond that, the more you play, the more areas you'll unlock so a successful run at this stage will probably take twenty to twenty five minutes. Once you've unlocked everything, it'll take probably forty five minutes on average. The more you win, the more items you'll unlock so the item pool will grow, increasing the variety of each subsequent run.

By "unlocking", do you mean completeing a run with them, or do you mean just picking them up, regardless of whether or not you die? Also, how do you mean the "item pool will grow"? Do you mean that I'll get more many more items the more I play, because at the moment, I'm often finding very few items, and therefore dying once the game starts to get harder. Are early runs more about unlocking items, so you can pile them up in subsequent runs?

QuoteIn brief though, at first there are five levels before you complete a successful run. You may not do this for several hours.

Right, this is what I needed to know. I wasn't sure if thise was a game with loads of chapters, or only five (albeit random) levels which you repeatedly play to unlock more stuff. It seems like it's the latter, which is fine, now I know that. 

QuoteYou may well spoil the odd thing but I did find www.platinumgod.co.uk really useful, as it tells you the exact effects for each item, which helps with buying stuff or when you may have to choose between items. I tend not to use it now because I'm happy to find out the effects by testing things out but it's really useful until you're comfortable with a good chunk of the item pool.

That's bound to be helpful. Half the items just sit in my inventory, and I can't work out how to activate them. I couldn't care less about spoilers in a game like this. I barely even care about them in films and story driven games 90% of the time.

Quote from: robotam on September 08, 2017, 03:27:24 PM
Donating a few coins to the donation machine in the shop every run is not a bad idea. This carries over. Also trying to unlock the other characters should be a goal.

Another very useful tip. I assumed that was just for runs where you had a lot of money, so planned to mostly ignore it. What do the arcade cabinets with coins/hearts do? They just seem to kill me, with no obvious benefit.

Thanks for the info, everyone. I'm still not absolutely clear if I can expect more drops and better items by playing more, or whether I need to complete a run first. My problem at the moment is that on many runs, I don't seem to be finding many good items, so I get massacred by level 3 or 4. I'll keep at it, though. It's already starting to make a bit more sense.       

madhair60

You'll die loads then you'll clear it and it'll start to open up. I'm at 150 hours and I can't believe I ever had trouble getting to, let alone beating Mom.

But, genuinely, ultimately, it is a game for replay and discovery. Please, I'm begging you, don't look up too many spoilers. Maybe google like "[item name] Isaac" and check the Wiki when you find a new thing?

Shay Chaise

It probably took me thirty attempts to even reach the first final boss.

On each floor, you'll find a golden door room (which contains your item pick up for that floor, which stays til you die) and when you beat the boss of each floor, you'll get another item. That's roughly typical, and is the minimum, so by the end of the fourth floor, you'll have eight guaranteed items. Beyond that, each floor has a shop where you can usually buy another good item which will affect your stats or tears or something else significant. There are also a lot more ways you can pick up extra bonus items, whether through secret rooms or mini bosses or whatever it may be. You could therefore quite feasibly have twelve or even sixteen 'modifier' items by the end of the fourth floor. The more you play and unlock levels and enemies, the more likely you are to find more than your typical two items per floor.

When I say 'unlock' itens, I mean that whenever you achieve something new, whether beating a boss, beating a boss a certain number of times or reaching a certain floor or blowing up a certain number of various objects, or many many more things, the game will make another item eligible to appear in subsequent runs. You might not see it though for a while, depending on RNG. All of the items you have picked up so far are 'unlocked', if you like, and they're therefore part of the 'item pool', the possible list of items which could appear in your game.

You're very rarely going to be totally overflowing with items so you one shot rooms and bosses with a particularly devastating combination and synergy but when you do, you won't forget it.

Most likely is you play a bit, learn that you like damage up items and tear rate up items and items that let you fly and then you gradually realise that almost everything is legit if you know how to get the best use out of it.

kittens

i've got myself re-addicted to this through reading this thread. still don't have the new one though. i've done all but two challenges. haven't got fuckin anything with the lost yet, it is too hard. cheers

Shay Chaise

Re: The Lost.

Starting with Holy Mantle makes such a massive difference, obviously. I'd put in a few runs in Greed Mode to unlock it. I think it's 600 or so coins, something like that. The Lost is actually pretty damn good because of the free devil deals and 'free' curse rooms (as in, Holy Mantle negates the penalty) which mean you can quite easily/often get Guppy. Spectral tears and flying are also obviously great. I often just hide on a rock and take out most enemies.

Kelvin

#70
Quote from: Shay Chaise on September 09, 2017, 11:33:43 AM
Spectral tears and flying are also obviously great.

This is what I just can't understand, and can't find an answer to online; are the better powerups more likely to drop once you find them once, or unlock them by doing things, or are they always very unlikely, and even after hundreds of hours of playing this game, you're still doing runs with mostly rubbish powerups?

It's really annoying me tbh. I can basically get to floor 4, but then die every time, and because I'm doing so many runs, any run with shit items I just get bored and feel there's almost no point continuing, because I know I'll get wiped out on floor 3 or 4.

My question is ultimately this: everyone talks about the game getting easier once you've played it for ages, but is that simply because you're better at the game, or also because you've unlocked more powerful items which makes getting further easier? As it stands, it feels like there's a wall of difficulty I simply can't get past, and I don't know if that's just because I'm shit, or because the game wants me to keep replaying until I've unlocked enough powerful items that progress gets easier through unlocks.

I honestly don't care which option it is, just so long as I actually understand the metagame. I just seem to be doing endless runs with mostly shit powerups, and can't understand if the crazy vids online are just random runs people did where they got lucky, or whether they've just unlocked much higher level stuff and so have more cool shit to play with.

I feel like I'm at a party where everyone's having fun, but I don't understand the language.

gabrielconroy

Yeah, there are so many different items and trinkets and cards and pills that it can be pretty confusing at the start. You do indeed start again whenever you die (unless you've got extra lives through an item like the Dead Cat), which adds to the tension quite a lot.

You also unlock new items by completing various achievements (see here: http://bindingofisaac.wikia.com/wiki/Unlockables). The more you play, there more variety and options are available to you.

Warning - once you get into it, it's very difficult to stop playing.

kittens

Quote from: Shay Chaise on September 09, 2017, 11:33:43 AM
Re: The Lost.

Starting with Holy Mantle makes such a massive difference, obviously. I'd put in a few runs in Greed Mode to unlock it. I think it's 600 or so coins, something like that. The Lost is actually pretty damn good because of the free devil deals and 'free' curse rooms (as in, Holy Mantle negates the penalty) which mean you can quite easily/often get Guppy. Spectral tears and flying are also obviously great. I often just hide on a rock and take out most enemies.

i've completed greed mode with almost everyone but only got like 15 coins in the machine. how you get coins in the machine

Shay Chaise

Quote from: Kelvin on September 09, 2017, 02:00:33 PM
I feel like I'm at a party where everyone's having fun, but I don't understand the language.

The first five hours or so are hardest and most frustrating. You definitely have the skill to beat Mom and then you'll be on your way, and it will get better and better.

Within the starting item pool, there are some really good power ups and so there's definitely an element of luck to it. If you get Cricket's Head, for example, you'll notice a good damage up effect. There are quite a few things like that. Equally, things like Torn Photo increase your tear rate quite a lot and I'm always happy to pick this kind of thing up.

That said, the vast majority of items to unlock are 'good' so the game does get easier, in that respect. On the other hand, you unlock harder areas and much harder bosses and enemies and so it all balances out nicely. There are some unlocks you'll get from beating bosses but there are plenty more you'll get from like blowing up a certain number of rocks and mushrooms and so on. That means that when you've unlocked them, you're more likely to pick them up from destroying rocks, etc.

At the same time, yes, there is obviously a high skill ceiling. My main tip would be avoid damage and learn to dodge above all else. On that note, I'd recommend you start with the Azazel character. The ability to fly and his mini 'Brimstone' shot are two things you'd be happy to pick up with any character. You'll be able to pick up any item in any room and it's just a very generous way into the game.

Shay Chaise

Quote from: kittens on September 09, 2017, 03:41:15 PM
i've completed greed mode with almost everyone but only got like 15 coins in the machine. how you get coins in the machine

The donation machine spawns at the end so don't spend any coins on the last two floors, basically.

If you've unlocked D20, use that to break Greed Mode. It's awesome fun.

Kelvin

I just completed it on my first run with Magdalene. Miles easier. Hearts spawning absolutely everywhere, spectral, rapid fire, splash damage, high damage. fear infecting tears that killed Mom in about 10 seconds. I'd only tried with Isaac up until that run, and the difference in difficulty was absurd.


Eight Taiwanese Teenagers

Just got an absurdly powerful selection of power ups and blasted my way through level 5 (for the first time) and smashed mom without even blinking. Didn't feel very satisfying!

Shay Chaise

You've completed the game, now you can uninstall it.

MjjW

I just sold my physical copy, because I love it too much and want it digital on my switch forever and ever instead.

Eight Taiwanese Teenagers

Quote from: Shay Chaise on September 10, 2017, 08:50:01 PM
You've completed the game, now you can uninstall it.

Yep have done so and thrown my Switch on a bonfire. What's next?

Kelvin

Quote from: MjjW on September 10, 2017, 09:51:54 PM
I just sold my physical copy, because I love it too much and want it digital on my switch forever and ever instead.

Was the physical copy for switch? I want to sell Mario kart 8 and get a digital copy, but I don't know if all your save data transfers over, or is stored on the cartridge.

Shay Chaise

I've had/got/be in the same quandary we Zelda. Dare I risk 100 hours of progress for one second of convenience, when it's already the only cartridge I will/do/have ever own?

No.

Back to Isaac, I also recommend getting into the Challenges. I'd start with Pong, it's a piece of piss. It'll unlock some item for you, each one does. They're also interesting to see the wide variety of builds available down the road.

MjjW

It didn't keep my saves but I think only because I went from US to UK version. Otherwise saves are supposed to be on the Switch itself so should be ok.

kittens

keep spending ages getting through greed mode and only getting like two coins in the machine before it breaks! more like 'grief' room eh lads

Shay Chaise

When you beat Ultra Greed, you'll see a percentage appear under your stats (as long as you play with HUD on). This is the likelihood you will jam the donation machine. The more you use a character, and the more you donate, the more likely you are to jam the machine. I once went in with 97 coins and it jammed after one. Bitter.

I recommend Lilith for Greed Mode because you can stack the effects of Cambion Conception as the item recharges, and end up with four copies of familiars. If you get 9v battery or similar, or more familiars, you can really go apeshit. Just make sure you donate big while your % is low. After 10% you're wasting your time.

kittens

oh no i was using isaac cos he was easiest. right. now i know. this game is ruining my life again

Shay Chaise

If you've unlocked D20, and you find it in a shop, Greed Mode becomes a joke. A really fun mad joke where you can buy every item in the pool and develop this insane build and one shot every boss. Then Ultra Greed is still a bastard sometimes because his HP scales with your damage to some extent (I believe). I recommend a few runs like that with characters you've not donated with before and you'll soon do it. I got from about 200 to 1000 coins in a weekend. Probably had about ten meaningful runs.

I'm now working on unlocking Godhead with The Lost because I'm probably only a couple of mad runs away, knocking off Hush and Mega Satan, and then finally onto Greedier Mode which I'll just abuse with the D20 (though it's quite a bit harder to do).

Anyone else got any targets or progress to report?

Kelvin

Quote from: Shay Chaise on September 12, 2017, 08:26:41 PM
If you've unlocked D20, and you find it in a shop, Greed Mode becomes a joke. A really fun mad joke where you can buy every item in the pool and develop this insane build and one shot every boss.

I just completed a run where I got the "lucky rock" early on, meaning every bombable object contained coins. Then coupled that with another item ("Number 2") that meant I dropped explosive shits whenever I fired, so didn't need to use bombs. For the last few stages, I had maxed out at 99 coins, a jammed coin machine, 99 keys, 60 odd bombs, 8 hearts, and had bought every item going. I killed every boss, bar Mom's heart in about 10 seconds, and for Mom's heart, I had saved two "The Sun"cards (I could carry two at once), so that was a doddle too.   

I also completed it co-op with a friend a couple of days ago, and now he's gone and bought it on PC. There's definitely something highly addictive about it.

Shay Chaise

I love the Number 2. There are a few things which can destroy rocks and make holes in walls and although it's time consuming, I love rinsing every floor of secrets like that. Not necessarily a won run every time but it doesn't half get you a load of goodies. You'll also unlock some more stuff just by virtue of blowing more stuff up. I hope you're enjoying it, anyway. The great thing is that it also gets exponentially more fun and more interesting and challenging than where you currently are. You're just starting to scratch the surface.