Main Menu

Tip jar

If you like CaB and wish to support it, you can use PayPal or KoFi. Thank you, and I hope you continue to enjoy the site - Neil.

Buy Me a Coffee at ko-fi.com

Support CaB

Recent

Welcome to Cook'd and Bomb'd. Please login or sign up.

March 28, 2024, 11:40:22 PM

Login with username, password and session length

Berserk - Kentaro Miura

Started by Shay Chaise, December 21, 2017, 04:45:48 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Chedney Honks

Probably the most I've ever been shocked by a TV series. I had to start reading the manga to find out what happened next. Gutted that he's dead and it was never finished.

Capt.Midnight

That ending is so fucked up.

When I watched the 97 anime, I did wonder how much it inspired ol' George RR Martin for Game of Thrones.

Spiteface

I have not seen this reported anywhere else, although this site brags a bit about its scoops. Either way take it with as much salt as is necessary, but apparently HBO may be planning a live-action adaptation of Berserk:

https://www.giantfreakinrobot.com/ent/berserk-live-action-exclusive.html

I would be curious to see if they could pull this off, although shit like the Eclipse would presumably be heavily watered-down.

Was hoping for a more-complete animated series on Netflix or something. I quite liked how some people were disgusted by Devilman Crybaby when Netflix did that. What were they expecting?

Hopefully they start with the full "Black Swordsman" arc. None of the animated works to date have done that, really, and the stuff with the Count/Slug Apostle is some of my favourite stuff.

Mister Six

How many volumes of Berserk are there?

Chedney Honks

Forty, plus eight unvolumised issues, all but one after Vol. 40.

If you're going to read it, make sure you get to the end of the Golden Age Arc (second arc, end of Vol 13) or don't bother.

Thursday

Started reading the Manga, but it suddenly feels like a real effort to go through the golden age stuff to catch up to where the anime ends. A real "I can't go through this again" feeling. I'm sure this has been fairly common for people who've got into it this way.

Chedney Honks

I actually think most people get into the manga from watching the 97 anime, in fact, but I understand what you mean. The manga is even more raw.

Spiteface

Been reading the manga the past few weeks, fitting in some chapters in lunchtimes, bus journeys etc

Some thoughts so far:

Spoiler alert
The "lost chapter" is interesting to read, even if Miura deemed it to not be canon afterwards: It essentially shows Griffith during his metamorphosis into Femto, travelling deeper into the Astral Plane and meeting with a being known as "The Idea of Evil" aka God, or whatever Berserk's version of God is. Basically a thing willed into existence by humanity's desire for a reason for their existence. Apparently Miura felt depicting God and the way the universe works would greatly limit what he could do going forward. He never ruled out revisiting the concept later on, obviously he never did, though.

I can see why Wyald never made it into any animated adaptation of the Golden Age arc. Edgelord as fuck. nice to see something "New" I hadn't seen while reading the Golden Age arc.

Oh, and a sex scene that is actually completely essential to plot and charcter development. That's novel.

Nice touch that before and during the Eclipse we see the Apostles Guts battled in the Black Swordsman arc, recontextualising those encounters as Guts avenging the Band of the Hawk.

Anyway, into the Lost Children arc, and I assume "Betchi" is the Behelit belonging to the Count/Slug Apostle? I know it's been a point of discussion as to if it would come into play during the final arcs of Berserk, if one of Gut's team, or even Guts himself would use it in some way, or if they're simply carrying it to the next person destined to use it. Guts using it would absolutely fly in the face of the idea that he can somehow defy fate/causality, as recipients of behelits are predetermined in some way as they are part of the flow of causality that the likes of Void babble on about.
[close]

Anyway, ordered Deluxe volumes 7&8 online now.

Thursday

It's going to continue

https://twitter.com/berserk_project/status/1534023434174627840/photo/1



I'm just under halfway through being up to date with the Manga myself, so not really sure how to feel about it all, I'm leaning towards thinking it's not as if the standards of writing are always that brilliant outside of the golden age arc, so I'm not that worried if it's not always living up to this idealized standard. If Miura respected and trusted these people then it's probably fine. Although I don't know enough about the whole setup of how they were working.

Spiteface

Initial reaction to the newest chapter has been universally positive. So the post-Miura Berserk is off to a good start.

Vodkafone

How adult is this exactly? 14 year old wants to read it, he is pretty good at separating fiction from reality. Cheers

Dickie_Anders

Berserk is very very horrible in places, particularly the comic. I think it's more for older teens, maybe 18+

Urinal Cake

The violence is so OTT it's hard to take seriously. The sexual violence, while most of it serves a narrative purpose is pretty explicit. Also lots of existential brooding.

Vodkafone

Thanks for the answers, I think the sexual violence would rule it out for now

madhair60


Dickie_Anders

I think the "Golden Age" arc is really among the peaks of comics as a medium. A lot of the later stuff is more questionable, though there is still a thread of greatness here and there


madhair60


Crenners

Go and play on the amstrad pal

Dickie_Anders

There are definitely bits that seem misogynistic to me. Which is frustrating, because its attitude to sexual violence overall is disarmingly sensitive. There are just times where it's undeniably pornographic, and it's disappointing. At the same time, its best and most complex characters are women

Crenners

I actually like that it's warts and all. It's human.

It is inexcusable and 'flawed' in parts but it's also incredibly real and respectful and insightful and compassionate.

If you're inclined to consign art to good or bad piles depending on how neatly it fits into your framework of acceptability, you end up with a narrow, diluted, group-approved experience of human expression. It's not about separating the art from the artist, or 'can a racist bake nice cakes?' or 'is this person a good ally?' , it's about recognising and accepting that people are often moral, immoral and amoral from one moment to the next and that this will come through in artistic expression when you're brave and honest enough to go beyond preaching to the choir.

It doesn't mean you accept or agree with all of those thoughts and expressions, but it does involve not shrinking the world to the size of your comfort blankie.

madhair60

#81
edit: arsed

edit 2: i can't remember what I originally wrote here but it was probably unreasonable.

Crenners

There's nothing wrong with not liking or accepting certain elements but your subsequent conclusion is exactly what I'm referring to.

Edit no problem at all

madhair60

i should probably stop but I feel like I should be less pat about the whole thing. I liked a lot of Berserk, and then i stopped liking it, because I felt like it became exploitative in a way that I see in so, so much other manga that it was disappointing to see the great Berserk go down that path. though of course there is nothing wrong with extremity, explicit imagery, exploitation even is an entertaining genre. It isn't fair of me to dismiss it like I did above, because even browsing back through this same thread anyone can see I didn't think that. So I guess I will call it something I thought was great, and now do not think is great, but cannot reasonably judge anyone for enjoying. God knows I like some stuff that is much worse, much less moral than Berserk is. lol.

Crenners

Glad to hear more extended thoughts. I agree that everything post-Conviction Arc is of a standard and tone I wouldn't read if the whole thing were like that, and it's certainly my investment from earlier brilliance that pushed me on.

I don't even think the first, short Black Swordsman arc is that great, also quite tropey and edgelordy.

I do think that the Golden Age is (for me) a pretty much unparalleled masterpiece of character, subtext, greyscale morality, narrative and utterly jaw-dropping emotion. That's without even mentioning the art and framing and composition and so on and so on which is frankly wasted in such a dreadful format as low-quality pieces of paper bisected by a spine.

The Eclipse (not just the culmination) almost evades description in how it made me feel, but I didn't see it as pornographic nor did I find it in any way titillating. It was psychological horror. I probably said similar on previous pages but the lingering perspective on sexual torment was - to my mind - to force you to experience a glimpse of what Guts was living (and the personal trauma he was reliving). It's almost all composed from his viewpoint. If you/anyone saw that as rape-porn, I obviously can't disagree with how you saw it, but I thought it was far darker and more devastating than that. Again, not something we have to debate but just wanted to share.

I think the Conviction Arc is also often really hard-going/absolutely fucked, but as an exploration of trauma, catharsis, compassion and self-discovery, I think it's unbelievable. Is there some titillating stuff seeping in? Through Farnese, definitely, but even that was aligned with some great exploration of fucked up religious repression and how that animal instinct has to come out somehow (torture and murder etc.)

Everything after that, though, yeah, monster of the week and some ghastly l*li elements which I really wish weren't there, plus loads of shit chibi humour.

I don't ask for it to be consistent for me to consider it brilliant, though. And likewise, I'm glad you said you don't have to dislike it all to consider it ultimately bad or not to your tastes.

Good chat, cheers.