Star Trek: Strange New Worlds (Pike Series)

[Mobbd]

Ethan Peck's portrayal is absolutely on-point.

He really sounds like Nimoy. Anyone know if they're doing something in post-production to achieve that? Did he sound that way in Discovery?

[Lemming]

He was really good in Discovery too, though he was given a bit of a weird role to play, with Spock being in the midst of a breakdown and "embracing his intense emotions" or whatever. Watching him in this, it feels like he's honed his performance between the two shows, taking it from "very good" up to "Nimoy incarnate".

[Chairman Yang]

Re: Quippiness & Awkard Dialogue

There's a line in this that stuck out as being a bit rubbish from the trailer but in context it kind of works, the one about 'wanting to prove you're the best pilot'.

Ortegas spends the whole episode chipping in with little quips but it's less that she's blazé and more like she's increasingly nervous about being exploded. Pike comes in at the end with a little pep talk when she needs to really focus, which mirrors the same beats happening in the A-story. It's nothing amazing but like... competent television? Jesus.

So yeah, weird feeling to enjoy new Star Trek. They will fuck it up though.

[Dex Sawash]

I keep thinking Ortegas has an eye in their navel




Edit- cross posting to the 'obvious kinks you just discovered' thread

[SOMK]

Mind you, there was a line about "putting the foot on the gas" that felt lazy. Carbon-based automobile metaphors in the 23rd Century?

"Clear the decks," "Who calls the shots around here?" "Freeze the balls off a brass monkey" All examples of idioms still used today that refer to redundant technology from centuries previous.

Reliably solid, but vaguely reminds you of the whole New Coke/Classic coke thing. New coke formula is brought in to revamp declining sales, not very popular, classic coke is brought back and sales rocket.

The prodigal franchise.

It's Star Trek as you remembered, you compliment the Spock actor on how well he plays Leonard Nimoy playing Spock (reminds me also of a bit from a collection of essays about music called 'Listen to This' by Alex Ross where he points out that prior to the invention of recorded music there was a great deal of variety in how a classical musician would approach a given piece, but once you had recorded music there became a right and wrong way to play certain tracks and so the variety in performance became much narrower and proscribed). Instead of imagining a utopia for now, we recreate an imagined utopia from 60 years ago with better special effects and more naturalistic acting (plus quips). Absolute bliss compared to Discovery, but the very existence of this show speaks to a weird contemporary incapacity to imagine a better future.

[Alberon]

What makes this Trek in a way that Discovery and Picard is not is it returns to an optimistic future.

Even DS9 managed to keep that at the height of the Dominion War. Even when those values slipped, like with Section 31 and Sisko bringing the Romulans into the war it was to highlight the true values of the Federation.

Picard has the Federation acting out of fear and bigotry. Trek can be dark, but it can do that without losing the core of what it should be about. Essentially what happened with Discovery and Picard is poor writing combined with an inability to properly grasp how a Trek show should work. And, I would add, DS9 did a serialised story far better than those two modern shows.

Strange New Worlds greatest problem at the moment is it copying too closely TOS and TNG. But it's only two episodes in and it can grow from here. At least it's on the right track.

[jamiefairlie]

Quite liking it. Overall likeable crew, decent self-contained stories. Some negatives - the quipping/treating things lightly feels a little 'sassy' for the sake of it, could do with it being a little more serious in tone. Not liking the Ortegas character much, feels tonally wrong. Number one could be a little more straight-laced too, like in the original.

[Ant Farm Keyboard]

For an opposite view about the show, from one of the main writers at The AV Club (classic era).

https://twitter.com/TashaRobinson/status/1524550574695452673

My husband and I watched the pilot of STAR TREK: STRANGE NEW WORLDS last week and were pretty annoyed with it. We haven't gotten around to episode 2. At the time I was just mildly not into it, but the past few weeks in politics have underlined what I found so frustrating.
There's the run-of-the-mill silly TV stuff. Like a whole batch of recycled characters from other STAR TREK media. Not my thing. Or Pike insisting on taking Spock on a mission where his physiology makes him the worst choice to go. Predictably, that derails the entire mission.
[...]
But none of that is what's still bugging me. What bothers me about the STRANGE NEW WORLDS pilot is that it's yet another TREK series (shades of both TNG and PICARD) that lectures viewers in the loftiest and most simplistic terms about how dumb 21st-century Earthers were.
[...]

Spoiler alert

In the big climax of STRANGE NEW WORLDS' pilot (spoiler!), Captain Pike fixes an entire world's centuries-old systemic conflicts by... scolding them. Lecturing them about how Earth also had systemic conflicts, so it blew itself up, and that sucked, so hey, don't do that.

[close]

[...]
What chaps me about all this, what gets under my skin, is that it's both a shallow feel-good fantasy and a monstrously false one. We know exactly what happens when authorities show up and says "Hey, selfish behavior and sectarianism are leading you toward doom": They're ignored.
[...]
I know I listen to my internal cynic too much, but my internal cynic says that if aliens showed up tomorrow and tried to give us wise advice about avoiding war, Mitch McConnell and Ted Cruz and You-Know-Who would be calling it a Democrat hoax within five minutes.
Half the country would immediately say the aliens were cuck pedos, Facebook would promote endless misinformation and conspiracy theories, and if anything, it'd destabilize things faster. So yeah, I'm weirdly bitter about the fantasy STAR TREK is selling right now. Sue me.

[Alberon]

Do see her point, though moralising about current events is pretty much core Star Trek.

[Ant Farm Keyboard]

Just like the time Shatner recited the Declaration of Independence...

I snipped some more articulate words, as I was mostly eager to feature the "cuck pedos" part, which is so realistic. So, I cut the ending, in particular.

It can't be this simplistic, slick, and smug. It can't be a smirking pat on the head that says "Do better and be more like us imaginary people in a post-scarcity society." To me, the STRANGE NEW WORLDS pilot was basically The Tick saying "Knock off all that evil!"
Do better, STAR TREK. Be more like us tired, bitter people in a torn society that's being actively manipulated by racists and opportunists. Which is to say, be more complicated and messy, and acknowledge that change isn't easy. The best sci-fi always has, and always will.

Her argument is quite valid. It isn't that the pilot moralized about current events, in an idealistic and heavy-handed way, just like Star Trek had always done. It's that it does it in a way that we know is bound to fall, as if the principles at work in the sixties or even the nineties were still existing.

The thing also reminds me of Man of Steel. The day after Zod makes his announcement for the whole of Earth, Superman goes to a church and discusses with a priest. Sure, I was bothered by the thing everyone's noticed. Snyder piled on the Christ comparison (Clark is 33...), with the stained glass window. But what really killed me is that the church is empty.
Consider this. On the night before, humanity got evidence that aliens existed, and they're threatening to kill us if we don't comply with their ultimatum to deliver some other infiltrated alien. It's basically the Apocalypse.
But on the next day, nobody turns to religion to cope with their fears. It's just business as usual.

[Mobbd]

I was mostly eager to feature the "cuck pedos" part, which is so realistic.

Yeah, fair point, but I also want to escape the horror of the reality she rightly describes.

For another critical take, see Mr. Sci-Fi. I like him. He's kind of a lovable loser. He knows what he's talking about because as well as being an attentive fan, he wrote TNG's First Contact and DS9's Far Beyond the Stars. He also wrote the official Twilight Zone Companion, which is a lovely book, and a bunch of Sliders and whatnot.

He's broadly on-side with SNW and, like us, I think he sees it as the best New Trek to date. He disliked DIS and PIC for the right reasons but, unlike us, he was always optimisic that Star Trek isn't dead, that it could be fixed. So his takes are interesting.

Basically, he finds the new episodes a little empty compared to classic TOS, which I think is fair. We have to be careful with our feedback though because Trek production are clearly listening (which is why we have SNW at all) and we've seen what happens when they try to "do something new," y'know?

Anyway, here's the lad himself talking about Episode 2:

https://youtu.be/8f6sqA80DkE?t=64

[Lemming]

I think the problem with the first episode was that it's just hastily-written and shallow - we don't learn anything about the planet's factions or what they're doing. I didn't mind because it's a pilot episode, and a mission statement of sorts for the series. The pilot was able to establish that the show will be about optimism, peace, cooperation, and striving for a better future. It also establishes Pike as something of a maverick and helps to differentiate him from previous captains by having him boldly violate the PD for the greater good (again, though, you can argue about whether or not this decision was sufficiently justified by the script). Pike's "be more like us" speech is fine in this context - it's essentially him just talking to the viewers directly and saying "this series is going to be about a better future, and we're going for a different tone than Discovery and Picard".

If the entire series is as vague and surface-level as the first episode then it'll be a problem, but as a pilot episode, it was fine and IMO miles better than Farpoint.

[Lemming]

Episode three had a few pacing issues and could have done with a once-over by the script editor, but I thought it was a solid 7/10 entry overall.

Spoiler alert

- Classic "ooh shit, a disease is running amok on the ship!" episode
- Uhura has stupid pyjamas and sleeps in a cupboard in the wall
- Pike and Spock subplot was really good, kind of comic relief while also revealing the Big Twist
- Laughed at the ridiculous fist fight while the computer gives you a running commentary on exactly how fucked you are
- Proper laugh at the slowmo scene of Number One carrying La'an, episode must have been running a minute or so under
- At the end we get a barrage of revelations about the crew, including that M'Benga keeps his ill daughter in the transport buffer until he can find a cure. Felt weird having such a massive thing tacked on to the end of an episode, but I really like it as a character hook and it's clearly setting us up for a resolution down the line
- I actually like that Number One says she's hopeful that one day there won't be bigotry against genetic modification, and yet we know that later, in the 24th century, there still is. I'm pretty interested in the idea that the 24th century was actually a regressive period for the Federation in a lot of ways, like the Prime Directive being taken to the point of homicidal mania, some insane one-drop-rule for Romulans serving in Starfleet, this genetic modification stuff, etc
- Absolutely lost my shit at the scene transition between Number One recording her log and M'Benga reading to his daughter. Like, they literally wheel the living quarters set away to reveal sickbay. It's on fucking wheels and being pulled out of the shot. I've never seen anything like it, what the fuck. Outstanding.

[close]

Probably the strongest first three episodes of a Star Trek first season ever, though none of these feel like they were exactly tough to write - just look at any episode of Star Trek ever and lift the plot structure. If they can churn out ten episodes like this then it'll be on about an Enterprise season 1/2 level of quality, which is tremendous after all the agony we've endured. If they can up their game and sprinkle a few show-stopping mega-quality episodes into the mix, SNW will be the best Star Trek thing in just over two decades.

[Pranet]

Spoiler alert

So they are all going to have a tragic back story then. In a way it makes sense, the way Star Fleet is portrayed, well-balanced reasonably content people are not going to succeed, it will be people with some flaw or damage obsessively driving them who make it. A whole ship full of people with PTSD. Although I've enjoyed the three episodes so far, I can see how this could send the series down the toilet if not handled well. Whole episodes of them emoting at each other.

[close]

But I enjoyed that, another fun episode.

[Mobbd]

Pretty good. My liking of it wasn't as complete as the first two episodes if I'm honest. 5.5/10.

Spoiler alert

I think it was hampered by the big character revelations. This double-whammy was nowhere near as bad as the fake drama of PIC and DIS but it still felt a bit weird somehow; both revelations felt bit unearned maybe or neither was given enough weight?

The Augment Wars has never been my favourite thing in Trek so the revelation about Number One left me a bit cold. I didn't "feel the feels" as they were presumably intended. Maybe it was too soon as well: we don't know the character very well yet so the big reveal didn't hit home very hard. We really only knew her from one previous episode; she could have been anything so who could care?

I like the idea of M'Benga's secret project. I think that's cool. It definitely felt tacked on as Lemming said though. I've rewatched the episode now and it was at least foreshadowed by the scene where M'Benga loses his shit at Hemmer when he's futzing with the medical transporter, so it wasn't competely out of nowhere. (The scene drained Hemmer of some of his authority though). Moreover, M'Benga's transporter loop being the cause of the epidemic didn't ring brilliantly true for me. I guess it makes sense but it was a pretty cursory quick two-sentence wrap-up, giving us a glimpse of some unwelcome Mystery Box storytelling, like the solution never really mattered because it was all about the mystery and the drams.

This is a very slight quibble but I always felt that the transporter loop used in "Relics" was a very Scotty thing to do: a thing anchored in his character and not something that's generally just done. This doesn't mean M'Benga can't independently arrive at the same idea -- it's not a continuity breach -- but it just feels a bit hollow compared to TNG-era writing.

I don't think I like La'an. As well as my not being a fan of the Augment Wars and getting a bit tired of New Trek's inexplicable boner for Khan, she was annoying as a character this week. I did't like the punching or the "Augment, that's what they called me, Augment!" stuff. And doesn't her learning all about Kahn from books as a kid kinda clash with her origin story with the Gorn? Not sure about that point. Just asking.

Three instances of serious misdemeanours going ignored by cool bosses this week. I am all up for a bit of that, I like a rogue gun character, but three in one episode feels a bit stupid and doesn't give weight to any one thing. Also (and this is another slight and nerdy quibble) the TOS and TNG crews didn't really start behaving like that until after a considerable number of episodes; their friendship came to outweigh orders and protocol after time, not right out of the gate because fuck the rule book, y'know?

So yeah, there's a bit too much 'dark personal past' stuff going on for my liking and some unclever writing decisions.

I'm still generally happy with it though and it's still streets ahead of the other shows imho. I'm glad they're on the right lines now but it's weird to watch people in charge of such a big franchise learning to make television seemingly from scratch. I guess they don't teach you this stuff in business school.

The first 15 minutes were very strong; really enjoyed the medical mystery stuff. For a moment I thought it was "Naked Now" time!

[close]

[SOMK]

Do see her point, though moralising about current events is pretty much core Star Trek.

Think her points are pretty solid, reductively it's not the moralising she's objecting to, but its shallowness.

Spoiler alert

The conflict they solve exists purely as a thing to be solved by the mere presence of the Enterprise and Captain Pike saying (agreeing with the imbecile world alien leader's framing) "If the biggest dick wins, well my penis is fucking enormous love." (points to enterprise)

[close]

-Wait until she watches a Voyage Home or the episode where Kirk takes Spock to the Nazi planet and covers his ears up with a beanie as a disguise.

TR-Yeah, I've seen both. Spock with his ears covered up (an "accident with a rice picker," if I recall) passes pretty decently for human, as long as no one whips him and his green blood shows through.

Oops. (includes image of Kirk and Shatner whipped)

INTERNET PERSON-If you just don't like Star Trek in general that's perfectly fine! To each their own. The point is you are complaining about things they've done repeatedly for 60 years as if it's a new development

TR (also an internet person)-The specificity here (using video from Jan. 6 for instance) and the tone is new, and more simplistic than it's ever been.

INTERNET PERSON-There's an episode of TOS where two races fight because they're not all black and white on the same sides. They've always been obvious and overly simple.

TR-Yeah, but look at how that episode ended! Kirk gives them the "C'mon, stop it" lecture and it DOESN'T WORK. Everyone on their planet kills each other, and they themselves refuse to stop fighting. Do I want every story to go that way? Hell no, it'd be way too cynical. But I do think "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" is more daring and has more of an impact by far than the SNW pilot, both because it feels much more realistic, and because it's bold enough to be so specific about the issues involved, which let the TOS writers ridicule racism.

The "but he's white on the LEFT side" business is so smart. It feels ridiculous to us, and to the Enterprise crew, but it clearly means everything to the people involved. Which lets TOS point out very specifically and pointedly how shallow bigotry is. I note with the SNW pilot, we really don't know what that society's issues are. We just know that they've been around forever, and that one group hates another group. Glossing over all the details is a way of not taking sides — or saying anything specific or meaningful.

Again, it's not TREK taking on social issues I'm objecting to here. You're right, it's always done that, with highly varying degrees of skill, commitment, and success. (I'm thinking about TNG's "Up The Long Ladder" or "The Outcast" here.) I'm objecting to it being done poorly.

[Ant Farm Keyboard]

I've finally managed to point the big difference I wasn't able to voice between Nu-Trek and the Roddenberry-Berman classic era.

The classic shows had the crew modeled on military, with a rather strict hierarchy. Nu-Trek is more like regular work, with the captain being also the head of HR.

Episode 3 of SNW was once gain surprisingly decent. It felt like an old-school episode with modern production values. Of course, there's some nostalgic pandering here and there, and it shouldn't be the best thing ST has to offer, but it's so far much more balanced than the other two live action shows.

[jamiefairlie]

I've finally managed to point the big difference I wasn't able to voice between Nu-Trek and the Roddenberry-Berman classic era.

The classic shows had the crew modeled on military, with a rather strict hierarchy. Nu-Trek is more like regular work, with the captain being also the head of HR.

Episode 3 of SNW was once gain surprisingly decent. It felt like an old-school episode with modern production values. Of course, there's some nostalgic pandering here and there, and it shouldn't be the best thing ST has to offer, but it's so far much more balanced than the other two live action shows.

Yeah, that's my issue, they need to act a bit more like military and less like teenagers. The original had Wagon Train in space, I'd like to see Band of Brothers in space.

[Dex Sawash]

A few minutes in to e3, i complained to my wife that we knew fuck-all about the first officer so far. Someone at Paramount was listening.

[Mobbd]

I'm objecting to it being done poorly.

She is right, you know. But after the hell we've been through, I'll still take this. I'd rather eat warmed up leftover soup than, you know, hard-boiled dog eggs.

Yeah, that's my issue, they need to act a bit more like military and less like teenagers. The original had Wagon Train in space, I'd like to see Band of Brothers in space.

Now you're talking. Not that I want WAR but I would like meaningul dialogue and close bonds and well-paced intelligent storytelling. With a continuation of naval-style organisation, as opposed to the HR snooze and the teen high-fiving. Yeah.

[Malcy]

Found it mostly predictable. Even down to me speaking dialogue a second or two before it was said.

Still far, far superior to the other two live action shows though.

[Lemming]

Episode four was good, a really tight and pacey action episode with some proper tension. It was pretty much just a submarine movie homage in the style of "Balance of Terror" but it was a strong episode and another worthwhile instalment for the show. Felt distinct enough to avoid just coming across as a retread of existing material, for the most part.

Things are taking shape very nicely, if they keep this up for six more episodes then they've pretty much got it in the bag.

[Alberon]

Not seen the latest episode yet, but 'Balance of Terror' is one of my favourite TOS episodes.

[Ant Farm Keyboard]

And they're ultimately using the "I know I will suffer a terrible accident in ten years" thing to their advantage. Enterprise and Discovery were prequels, so you had an idea of how things would play out in the big picture, but this one is a direct prequel, and there's no suspense about the fate of various crew members or the ship itself. Then Pike knows he and the Enterprise will make it as had this glimpse of his future, which now gives him some confidence about taking risks and thinking outside the box, while a normal captain would have played it safer.

[Cold Meat Platter]

Is no one else getting 'The Orville' vibes off this? Spock seems to be more like Bortus and Pike is fairly quippy and facetious.

The first episode was basically a remake of the TNG episode where Riker gets sussed as an alien with some heavy handed moralising added.

Quite like this though, apart from the aforementioned tone issues. I get that maybe work relationships in the future have progressed to the point where people can be themselves a bit more but referring to things as 'cool' on the bridge of a heavily armed warship just seems slightly childish.

[Mobbd]

Is no one else getting 'The Orville' vibes off this?

Yes. Pike and and Una have slight Ed and Kelly vibes. The strong security/tactical officer too.

I think they must have looked to The Orville and its success when trying to understand where they've been going wrong. We know they collect fan feedback, presumably by scraping it off social media, and using it to correct their course as best they can. I think that's why Disco is in the 30th Century now and why Klingons have hair again and why we got Strange New Worlds. Their neediness and lack of confidence here is a bit sad really, but at least its being orchestrated intelligently now instead of in flailing acts of desperation: "they like Michelle Yeoh! They actually like something we made! Quick, commission a spin-off!"

Ep 4 was okay. But the only reason I'm not saying it was great is because I have already been spoiled. Run-of-the-mill Trek is fine by me. I'm just so happy not to be crying anymore.

I really like Hemmer. He's cool.

[Pranet]

Liked the new one. It was fun.

[Lemming]

Episode five was okay, a comedy episode but most of the comedy felt a bit "Marvel-esque" to me, as the kids say.

Spoiler alert

I felt like they should have focused the whole episode around the T'Pring and Spock bodyswap, because it had the most potential by far. The only proper big laugh I got in the episode was the shot of them doing some 100% ineffectual mystical Vuclan chanting, desperately trying to switch back.

Chapel's really not the same character at all. Unless they start writing over her TOS incarnation (which they're more than welcome to do, because she was shit in TOS), something must have happened to her in the intervening handful of years to render her a complete void of a person.

Liked the idea behind the Number One and La'an plot but again the dialogue felt very quippy and one-liner-laden, often in a way that didn't feel like something either character would actually say.

I love how M'Benga's entire plot was literally a four-second scene of him going fishing.

[close]

[Mobbd]

Yeah, I guess they tried to do funny because it's what we asked for. A valiant effort but it all came off a bit stiff and awkward. Didn't hate it though. I count it as a hit.

Spoiler alert

Number One's story was the least successful. We're into trained professionals acting like teens again. But at least it wasn't joyless.

Agree with Lemming that the body swap should have been the main plot and maybe... it was??? It should have been introduced earlier. It only happened 20 minutes into the episode, which was a bit odd. I would have put it in the teaser, Buffy-style. But hey. Not bad.

My favourite part? M'Benga's hat. Such a dad! I think it comes from the stable of gawkward humour that misfires with Number One's story (and to my mind, much of Lower Decks) but in this case it was not to be delighted by it. I think I like Babs.

[close]

With reference to Nurse C being a totally different character, I agree. It's probably for the best but it's a bit artless. It's the stuff of reboots, which this apparently isn't. If you want better characters, I'd say write new ones instead of redesigning old ones beyond recognition.

[Mobbd]

In terms of general vibe, I think this might have been the best episode yet. It was very wordy and didn't lean hard on special effects or shock technology; it had the feel of a particular kind of "talky" TOS episode like "Conscience of the King" or "Wolf in the Fold" that I didn't like as a kid but grew to appreciate.

There was 50% less puerile/quippy kid dialogue too. Definitely a plus.

Unfortunately, there was some moral chickening out that weakened the script's integrity:

Spoiler alert

Either the sacrificial kid should have been pleading for asylum, putting Pike in a tricky Prime Directive/moral decision situation, or, the kid should have been right up for getting in the juicer, challenging Pike's personal moral code, "Perfect Mate"-style.

As it stands, they kinda sat on the fence. One minute, he's reciting "for the good of our people"-type stuff, all mature, and the next he's hiding in a box or saying "my god" when he sees the desiccated remains of his predecessor. They didn't commit to one moral problem or the other; as well as weakening the moral stance of the script, it just failed to make sense or be internally consistent.

[close]

As I say though, I liked the general vibe, even more than previous episodes really. I also liked the

Spoiler alert

M'Benga stuff though I was surprised he didn't try harder to get that medical technology.

[close]

As a general remark, the sheen is going off the show a little bit for me. It's still the best New Trek they've ever done and the sets are truly beautiful and I'll carry on watching, but it's sure inherited a lot of baggage from Discovery and it often feels quite empty compared to real Trek. I'm often left with a feeling of having consumed trash. But, god bless 'em, they're trying and I appreciate that.