The Vow (True crime/cult hbo documentary)

[thugler]

There's only 3 episodes out so far but this is really mental. It's about this cult called NXIVM I had never heard of which smells vaguely of scientology mixed with self help and multi level marketing scams. Mostly covering the experience of a filmmaker who was heavily involved in it and documented it all constantly, recording all his phonecalls and conversations obsessively. Don't want to spoil it too much, but it's wild and horrible and I've only watched 2 so far. Lots of vulnerable young actors and wannabes involved as with scientology, but some of it seems to get worse than the shit they do.

[peanutbutter]

Seemed like a pretty fun cult until all the mad stuff really. That film yer man in it was involved in before he joined the cult looks like the biggest mountainload of shite ever. No clue how it made $15 million in cinemas.

Dunno how much can be hidden RE spoilers, the Smallville one got quite a lot of media coverage about it there two years ago so I don't think they're really shying away from it beyond the specifics themselves.

[thugler]

Seemed like a pretty fun cult until all the mad stuff really. That film yer man in it was involved in before he joined the cult looks like the biggest mountainload of shite ever. No clue how it made $15 million in cinemas.

Dunno how much can be hidden RE spoilers, the Smallville one got quite a lot of media coverage about it there two years ago so I don't think they're really shying away from it beyond the specifics themselves.

Ah i totally missed the coverage then.
I remember the 'what the bleep' film as i recall Madonna and some other gullible celebs being into it. Lots of use of quantum physics mumbo jumbo to claim that humans can miraculously influence the world with positive thinking. Very Noel Edmonds.

One thing i noticed when i looked it up again was that all 3 of the directors (including the guy who features in this doc) were members of another cult (Ramtha's School of Enlightenment) when making it that would have heavily influenced the content. So it's not even the first time that guy had been hoodwinked by a cult.

One thing about these cults is how certain all their followers are about how it's techniques have helped them dramatically, often even after they've come out. You'd have to imagine that once you're hooked the belief itself can bring about some serious dedication and focus.

[Ja'moke]

Has there ever been a more annoying and disjointed documentary than this? I'm not sure how they made a show about a sex cult so bloody boring, but here we are.

I hate everyone in it. I hate Keith. I hate the cult. I hate the people who left the cult and are now investigating it. I hate how the timeline is all over the place.

And yet I've watched so many episodes now I feel like I have to watch to the miserable end.

[chveik]

yep it's awful

I hate the people who left the cult and are now investigating it.

indeed. I can't believe they didn't realize they were involved in a pyramid scheme

[phes]

It's all just so boring. Seen hands down more thrilling documentaries about motorways

[Ja'moke]

yep it's awful

indeed. I can't believe they didn't realize they were involved in a pyramid scheme

All that footage Mark had, like, there's no way he didn't realise what was happening. It just seems like Keith wouldn't let him make the film he wanted to, so Mark left and went to HBO with the footage.

[peanutbutter]

All that footage Mark had, like, there's no way he didn't realise what was happening. It just seems like Keith wouldn't let him make the film he wanted to, so Mark left and went to HBO with the footage.

Did you see how much of a moron he was? or what he was up to before he joined the cult.

Have no doubt he was 100% sincere in his stupidity.


The heiress becoming a centrepiece of the whole thing was when it fell off a cliff for me, not sure how was I supposed to be emotionally engaged in that super low stakes shit featuring characters who showed no likeable characteristics

[thugler]

The doc is quite flawed, and misses out a load of other interesting and super weird stuff that was going on. My own obsession with cults has led me to do further reading and listening to related podcasts which has been eye opening. The people in the doc are extremely irritating and hard to sympathise with. One thing I've read was that Raniere specifically targeted narcissists with psychometric testing when they joined, I think you can definitely see that in some of the main player, the main woman with the brand seems thrilled to be included in the new york times article for reasons far away from anything to do with fighing the cult and getting justice, I see that she's got a book out as well.

I'd have much preferred the doc to focus more specifically on each different aspect of the cults different organisations and teachings, what they were stolen from and how they were damaging and misleading. Instead it's all about these twats. Including the stuff about the guy with tourettes, but failing to point out that NXIVM's story of 'curing' him of it was totally fabricated is very poor form. The latest episode was a little more interesting on showing what was actually involved in the male/female groups and how utterly mundane and old fashioned stuff he was teaching. It's baffling to me how people believe such nonsense like men are a certain way and women are a certain way, it doesn't stand up to the most basic scrutiny, I guess at the point they were doing these kind of courses they were pretty far down the rabbit hole.

[Ja'moke]

Do you have a good podcast recommendation about this cult, thugler?

[Neomod]

That's disappointing. I was going to binge on this but it doesn't seem worth a waste of what, 9 hours?

[Colin Sanction]

Do you have a good podcast recommendation about this cult, thugler?

I recently listened to Uncover Season 1 — Escaping NXIVM https://www.cbc.ca/radio/uncover/uncover-season-1-escaping-nxivm-1.4675949

[Ja'moke]

I recently listened to Uncover Season 1 — Escaping NXIVM https://www.cbc.ca/radio/uncover/uncover-season-1-escaping-nxivm-1.4675949

Thanks!

That's disappointing. I was going to binge on this but it doesn't seem worth a waste of what, 9 hours?

Definitely not worth it.

[Colin Sanction]

I recently listened to Uncover Season 1 — Escaping NXIVM https://www.cbc.ca/radio/uncover/uncover-season-1-escaping-nxivm-1.4675949

The podcast is half of the time of the TV documentary. It's OK, not brilliant.

[thugler]

I recently listened to Uncover Season 1 — Escaping NXIVM https://www.cbc.ca/radio/uncover/uncover-season-1-escaping-nxivm-1.4675949

Yeah this one is okay, some of the same ground covered, but some extra detail. There's another one that covered the court case live which is called nxivm on trial.

[thugler]

That's disappointing. I was going to binge on this but it doesn't seem worth a waste of what, 9 hours?

I completely agree with the crticism of the doc, but it's still been interesting for me and worthwhile as a whole. I thought it was going to be 8 episodes so expected it to end this week but there looks to be 1 more at least, presumably dealing with the arrests and court case.

[Neomod]

I recently listened to Uncover Season 1 — Escaping NXIVM https://www.cbc.ca/radio/uncover/uncover-season-1-escaping-nxivm-1.4675949

I lasted 1 and a half episodes before the annoying participants overwhelmed me especially the woman who experienced the secret slave club branding and stayed in for a further 12 years..

Spookily Keith did sound a bit like Yuri Geller and he's getting sentenced this month so he better start bending those spoons into shivs.

I completely agree with the crticism of the doc, but it's still been interesting for me and worthwhile as a whole. I thought it was going to be 8 episodes so expected it to end this week but there looks to be 1 more at least, presumably dealing with the arrests and court case.

I'd already downloaded the first 8 eps but I don't hold out much hope if it involves similar people to the podcast and by the comments upthread it does.

[thugler]

Fuck, there's 2 other documentaries about this as well. 'the lost women of nxivm' about the former lovers of Raniere who he may have murdered and 'seduced: inside the nxivm cult' which features the daughter of that Oxenberg woman.

[Ja'moke]

This shit has been recomissioned for a second season.

[phes]

21st C Eastenders for dull cunts like me. It's about as real

[peanutbutter]

This shit has been recomissioned for a second season.

It's largely funded by the heiress, isn't it? If not then her connections are almost certainly helping a lot.

[Moribunderast]

This shit has been recomissioned for a second season.

I just saw that. I haven't disliked the show like most here have but how the fuck do you wring a second season out of an already elongated production that has a pretty conclusive end point?

[Ja'moke]

I just saw that. I haven't disliked the show like most here have but how the fuck do you wring a second season out of an already elongated production that has a pretty conclusive end point?

It makes me think that they're barely going to touch on the arrest and court case in the finale, and instead drag that out over an entire second season. Of course, filled in with scenes of the ex-culties making sandwiches and folding their linen wear.

[Colin Sanction]

thugler can you recommend any other interesting podcasts about cults?

[Ja'moke]

There's another documentary about this out now: https://twitter.com/STARZ/status/1317676780908539904?s=20

[Moribunderast]

Jesus Christ, I just watched the "finale" - what a load of shite. I've been mostly okay with the meandering pace of the show because I felt it was giving decent access to the "teachings", giving an idea of how/why certain people could fall for the scheme. I was okay with the show giving ample air-time to victims too, even if it stretched the running time longer than the story probably needed. But having it end on a cliffhanger for a new season where we're apparently going to give a platform to Keith and other cunts behind the cult kinda shits all over the concept of making it a story for/about the victims, doesn't it? Also, only spending ten minutes on the arrests and not even going into the court cases and whatnot just to stretch into a season two is not at all what I signed up for when I started watching this. Very much left feeling it was a frustrating waste of time that now wants me to invest more time on the already sunk cost.

[badaids]

It was far too long and boring and the overwhelming feeling, apart from what a great aching peen of a cunt of arse Keef is, is how on earth any of these narcissistic, gullible fools fell for his bollocks. The best episode was the one that had Keef in lesson going on about how hard men were and how weak and useless women are. Quite astonishing that no one called him out on all that utter utter bullshit.

[Neomod]

Thanks. Binned.

[thugler]

the 'Seduced' docco is better than this, has actual cult experts and a lot more explanation of what was going on at every step.

[thugler]

thugler can you recommend any other interesting podcasts about cults?

The Nxivm on trial one was interesting on coverage of the trial itself week by week. There's a scientology one 'fair game' which I heard Vicente interviewed on, also heard him interviewed on 'indoctriNation' haven't heard other episodes of either. Qanon anonymous is a good one about the qanon nonsense. That's all that I'm aware of, but there must be loads out there