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Star Trek: The Next Generation Rewatch (oh god no)

Started by Lemming, May 11, 2021, 02:05:41 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Blumf

What if Rasmussen just went to the 26th century and asked to live there? Just a case of "here's your timeship back, mind if I crash here for the rest of my life? Checked the records and I had no effect on anything back in the 22nd, so it's cool, right?" Would that be okay with the Temporal-Prime Directive? Or would a C26 Picard go off on a rambling one?

kalowski

Quote from: MojoJojo on November 30, 2021, 10:13:11 AMMinor quibble - it annoys me that taking technology back to the past is always presented as just case of grabbing an item, and then you'll be able to reverse engineer it. As if you could derive a silicon fabrication plant from a pocket calculator.

This is a really good point, and so obvious I can't believe I've never considered it before.
"Look, I've brought this device back from the future and now I'm going to mass produce it. I wonder what those little flat circuit type things are made of?"

Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse

I could see it working with certain things, like if you bring a modern computer back to an era where we already had computers you (or a team of experts in the field) could presumably take it apart and go AHA so this is what its innards are made of and this is how it's wired, now how do we make that stuff? You might not be able to jump immediately from giant fuck-off computers that run on punchcards to a 21st century laptop, but you might get there a lot faster. But if you bring it back to a time when nobody knows what a computer is and the tech isn't even being researched yet, that's not realistic.

The Culture Bunker

And that's the kind of thinking that enabled us to have so many Terminator films...

Lemming

Quote from: MojoJojo on November 30, 2021, 10:13:11 AMOne problem with that is that the convention with time travel in sci fi is that if you're not supposed to mess with the past, it's because it will cause a universe destroying paradox. It's not some high minded principal. That's not what is presented in the episode, to be fair, but for me that concept that messing with the past causes galaxy destroying paradox is embedded enough that it undermines the Picard/Rasmussen debate.

Star Trek always seems to portray the timeline as being very flexible and adaptable to change, to the point of having people like Braxton from Voyager, Daniels from Enterprise, and the Mulder and Scully knockoffs in DS9 who are able to identify changes in the timeline and travel back to investigate.

So if Rasmussen actually had been a future historian and had changed the course of history by influencing Picard to save or destroy the planet, the timeline would somehow proceed from that point even if Picard created a future in which Rasmussen was never born and never able to travel back to give him the advice that led to the creation of a new timeline. Rasmussen was never born in the 26th century, but he was still present and talking to Picard in the 24th century.

I find this easier to understand than the idea of a "stable time loop", which people were trying to explain to me in the Red Dwarf rewatch thread to no avail. Rimmer travels into the stasis leak because  his hologrammatic self from 3 million years in the future tells him to... but his future self only knew about the stasis leak because he'd been told by his future self in the exact same way, so somehow, the conversation between the two Rimmers always occurred and events always played out the same way. So how did Rimmer find out about the stasis leak in the first place in order to go back and tell himself? Answer: his future self told him. But how did his future self know? Answer: his future self told him, repeat to infinity. Still can't get my head round this!

daf

Of course, Rasmussen eventually found a way back to his own time, but was horribly disfigured in the process, and had to have extensive plastic surgery - mainly to his hair and suit.





Mr Trumpet

Quote from: kalowski on November 30, 2021, 10:00:10 PMThis is a really good point, and so obvious I can't believe I've never considered it before.
"Look, I've brought this device back from the future and now I'm going to mass produce it. I wonder what those little flat circuit type things are made of?"

It's the same issue I have with these people who say "if I went back to the Middle Ages/Ancient Rome/Egypt i'd be like a god with all my modern scientific knowledge". Because a) how do you prove any of it? It's all very well to say the Earth goes round the sun and everything is made of atoms, but if the society you arrive in lacks the means to measure this then it's just another baseless theory. Then b) how do you build a technological base? You have your smartphone with you? Well done, you have a box that lights up and shows pictures and makes sounds. Very impressive as a novelty item until the battery runs out, but you're not going to be able to take it apart and build more are you?

I suppose the only difference here is that Rasmussen lives in the era of Captain Archer, when there's already a Starfleet and aliens are about. He could pass these off as alien tech he's discovered and there must already be an established system of reverse-engineering unfamiliar technology. Of course that's meant to be a post-capitalist era already so what's the point of it all anyway.

Lemming



Jokes aside, most people from the present day should at least be able to impart knowledge of easily-verifiable things such as the theory behind vaccination, basics of water sanitation, the toxicity of certain chemicals, possibly how to make penicillin, etc, so you'd be able to make at least a bit of a difference, assuming your knowledge was able to spread. You could also draw a rough world map from memory, if you'd travelled to a time when people still had no clue where everything was, which should be relatively simple for sailors to confirm so that everyone knows you're talking sense. I think I remember how to make a potato battery too, but fuck knows what use that'd be to anyone. Especially due to the lack of potatoes across most of the world before 1600.

If you knew a shit-ton about the period you'd travelled to, you might be able to tell people events in the near future before they happen, which would see you confirmed as a time traveller, and give everything you say a lot of credit. Then you can hit them with the atoms and the Earth-around-Sun stuff, assuming you haven't been kidnapped and tortured by the ruling class who demand that you tell them everything that'll happen next to give them an edge. I wonder when time travel first shows up as a plot in fiction - if sufficient proof were offered, most of us would be ready to accept the existence of a time traveller coming from the future to meet us, because we've got so much fiction that makes us familiar with the idea, but I suppose people from the past with no fictional frame of reference for the concept might be more likely to respond with a confused "whateth the fucketh is thiseth".

The one that always interests me with time travel is the potential to introduce social theories to people in the past - what if you could initiate a wave of popular anti-nationalist ideology back before modern nations even formed, potentially averting countless wars and years of imperialism? What if you could spark a serious feminist movement in Ancient Greece and prevent several centuries of patriarchal societies? What if you were able to influence the growth of an atheist movement before the birth of Jesus, so that people were less ready to accept divine explanations of things and Christianity never took hold, with whatever effect that might have (Mariah Carey making a lot less money every December, for start)? Every one a massive gamble with the potential to create a new version of history totally unrecognisable to the current one, for better or worse.

I assume you'd probably just end up the same way anyone with good ideas seemed to throughout most of history, ie. shouted down/ignored/no impact/dead. You'd have to play a music video on your smartphone while you talked to people so they knew you were the real deal, a real time traveller, and someone to take seriously. Like Moses on Mount Sinai, except instead of holding up stone tablets, you're holding up a little screen that's playing a low-quality MP4 of the music video for Corona's Rhythm of the Night, as you impart to people both crucial knowledge and the fresh sound of Eurodance.

Blumf

Often wondered how much tech I could recreate from scratch, not just in a time travel scenario, but in a more general starting from scratch (washed up on a unpopulated island or something). I suspect having the ability to make fine copper wire, with insulation, would be a big step, if you were dropped into a pre-19th century world.

But there is so much scientific and technical knowledge that we know only at a surface level. I'm not sure I could make a convincing argument for the germ theory of disease to a sceptical society. (hell, we're barely managing that today with some idiots)

Quote from: Lemming on December 01, 2021, 10:28:17 AMThe one that always interests me with time travel is the potential to introduce social theories to people in the past - what if you could initiate a wave of popular anti-nationalist ideology back before modern nations even formed, potentially averting countless wars and years of imperialism? What if you could spark a serious feminist movement in Ancient Greece and prevent several centuries of patriarchal societies? What if you were able to influence the growth of an atheist movement before the birth of Jesus, so that people were less ready to accept divine explanations of things and Christianity never took hold, with whatever effect that might have (Mariah Carey making a lot less money every December, for start)? Every one a massive gamble with the potential to create a new version of history totally unrecognisable to the current one, for better or worse.

This is perhaps the more interesting line of thought. Although I suspect a lot of societal development...

a) has to wait for it's time. We had movements like the Levellers, so obviously some people were thinking about progressive societal changes centuries ago, but never made them stick until much later, if at all. Another example, from what I understand, the acceptance of homosexuality has waxed and waned over the millennia. So, even if you could make progress, would it stick?

and b) relies on technological advancements to make the changes possible/palatable. I think that's played a big part in the feminist movement, for example, when advances in automation as well as medicine (particularly the pill) freed women from being tied to the household and family.

(all broad brush strokes here)

Bad Ambassador

Discussions like this the legacy of Star Trek. But not anything since 2005.

Zetetic

Quote from: Lemming on December 01, 2021, 10:28:17 AMJokes aside, most people from the present day should at least be able to impart knowledge of easily-verifiable things such as the theory behind vaccination,... assuming your knowledge was able to spread.
The long history of inoculation prior to Jenner's invention of the smallpox "vaccine" is interesting. (And I guess it's hard not to think of Semmelweis when discussing whether you could sell people on germ theory.)

MojoJojo

I am actually a bit baffled that the theory behind vaccination is easily verified.

Innoculation is probably something you could take back. Although it might be hard to cut a kids arm up and rub cow pus into without getting mobbed.

Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse

I prefer the Futurama explanation for time paradoxes, wherein a time paradox duplicate of a person is always doomed.

Lemming

S05E10 - New Ground

The Enterprise participates in testing a new form of space travel, while Worf deals with Alexander's presence on board.

- Geordi is really excited about this new deathtrap method of space travel. Data (capable of 99999 trillion calculations a second) doesn't understand the phrase "moment in history", and Worf doesn't give a fuck about space travel.

- Worf's mum's here, having intercepted the Enterprise when she heard it would be in this sector. The flagship is being outrun by Worf's mum's car. She's brought Alexander with her.

- Worf greets Alexander wih Honour, but the situation quickly dissolves into Dishonour when Worf learns that Alexander will be remaining aboard the Enterprise with him. Worf's parents have had enough of Alexander's bullshit so they're shoving him over to Worf.

- Alexander is uncontrollable and knocks shit over. Worf swells with HONOUR. But Alexander also lies often. All the honour drains out of Worf's body in an instant upon hearing this.

- It's time for Alexander's first day in Enterprise school! The teacher is a panicked fool who seems genuinely shocked at a child being unresponsive. First day on the job, maybe, with no training. Hired by one of those Federation equal opportunity programs, the same one that probably got Riker on board.

- Worf can't remember Alexander's birthdate. Dishonour levels are reaching critical.

- "I apologise for being late, captain. I was detained at school."

- Some guy comes aboard who explains the SOLITON WAVE method of space travel. A wave will be sent into space which the Enterprise will then surf on at warp speeds. Doesn't sound dangerous. You also need a scattering field on another planet to dissipate the wave and bring the ship out of warp. It's just worse than warp drive in every way.

- Troi has heard about Alexander's presence on the Enterprise and absolutely cannot wait to get stuck the fuck in. She makes Worf go to the FATHER/SON FIELD TRIP EVENT this afternoon, so he can socialise with the other DILFs. Also lol @ it being specifically a father/son day -  only male children get to check out the cool animals today! And if you don't have a dad you'll just have to go on your own and get laughed at by all the other kids, loser. If you've got two mums, at least you'll get your own back with double-your-money on the mother/son field trip.

- There's lots of cool lizards in this one room on the Enterprise. Alexander STEALS a plastic lizard. Worf rushes to his defence, only to discover that Alexander has indeed stolen the lizard, then lied about it. The resultant explosive dishonour is too much to bear, and Worf, Kurn, Worf's parents (biological and adoptive), Jeremy from The Bonding, and every member of the House of Mogh all the way back to the primordial soup is dishonored. They are now P'TAKHS.

- Back in Worf's quarters, Worf feeds Alexander a ton of bollocks about Klingons and how great they are. After this TED talk, Worf considers the matter resolved, and honour restored. Later, he explains his incredibly successful parenting style to Troi, who is incredibly skeptical.

- There was no way to see this one coming - the Soliton Wave goes utterly fuckwards, destroys a test ship, and tosses the Enterprise around.

- Weird Teacher calls Worf to a parent-teacher meeting. The verdict: Alexander is shit, he's a bastard, he's a bully, he sucks. Worf thinks this is absolutely great, until he learns that Alexander is still lying. He power-walks to Alexander's last known location to deliver a SMACKDOWN.

- Alexander is verboten from looking at the cool lizards anymore. Worf decides the only solution is to send Alexander to a Klingon school, where they'll kick his ass until he conforms.

- Worf goes to see Troi to get her take on the unfolding saga. He admits he sent Alexander away to Earth in the first place because he didn't feel like he'd be capable of raising him himself. Troi helps him to see this from Alexander's perspective, and the amount of stress and feelings of abandonment it may have sparked.

- This whole scene is great, by the way - I really like that Worf respects Troi and her expertise, when it would have been easy to write him as being dismissive and overconfident in himself. It's also a great scene for Troi, who's skills are taken seriously by the script for once.

- Enlightened by the THERAPY SESH, Worf goes to try and explain to Alexander what's happening. Lucky break for Worf - Alexander is DESTROYING him with FACTS and LOGIC when Picard calls him to the briefing room.

- The soliton wave is a fucking weapon of mass destruction now and will destroy some planet if it's not stopped. The solution involves flying the Enterprise straight through it, which will fuck us RIGHT up.

- Alexander, ever DISHONOURABLE, has snuck off to look at the cool lizards. The ship enters the wave and is jolted around, during which the lizard room catches fire. Worf rushes to the rescue, accompanied by... Riker.

- Riker jams his hand uselessly into the broken door console, until Worf rips the panelling off and overrides the door. They rush into the flames to look for Alexander, who is crushed beneath debris. While this is happening, by the way, we're counting down to a torpedo launch that will kill Riker or something.

- Riker gets lost and starts calling out for Worf. Worf now has two helpless children to rescue from the flames. Riker rushes off to find something to help lift the girder that's crushing Alexander, but Worf just solos it himself. Great shot of Riker looking bemused then throwing away the wimpy pipe he was going to try and lift the girder with.

- "The gilvos (cool lizards)!" Alexander calls out as he's lifted to safety. "THERE'S NO TIME," Riker says firmly. "Please!" Alexander says, and Riker immediately rushes over to the lizards. Just obeys the last thing that's been said to him, even if it's been said by a child. I actually love Riker's uselessness in this whole sequence, he's exactly as much use as I'd be in this situation.

- Riker, Worf, Alexander and Cool Lizards escape the room just in time. Love the shot of Riker holding like three lizards and looking absolutely fucked.

- Alexander is in sickbay, recovering from being girder'd. He apologises for fucking everything up so hard, and says that he'll comply with Klingon school.

-
QuoteWORF: Klingon schools are designed to be difficult. The physical and mental hardships faced by the students are meant to build character and strength. However, if you wish to face a greater challenge, you may stay here with me. It will not be easy, for either one of us, but perhaps we can face the challenge together.

Great episode, top character study of Worf, who's come an incredibly long way since the first season of the show. Michael Dorn is outstanding, he just gets the character in the same way that actors like Leonard Nimoy and Jeri Ryan just seemed to completely understand their characters, managing to make them convincing and consistent even when the writing wasn't quite there.

It would have been easy for the writers to make Worf look like a clueless dumbass here who needs to be shown the error of his ways, but he's not - the script treats him with absolute respect and his attempts at connecting with Alexander are all sympathetic and understandable. His scene with Troi is, again, fantastic, in part because Dorn seems to play it as though Worf already knows the Klingon school is a bad idea, but needs to hear someone he trusts explain to him exactly why it wouldn't work. Which Troi doesn't actually do - she wisely coaxes him into realising it himself instead.

And Worf's not really in the wrong at any point, other than perhaps with the Klingon school idea. He's awkward around Alexander and falls back onto his (already discredited, and he knows it!) ideas about Klingon honour, but the episode doesn't ridicule him for it and doesn't really make him abandon his initial approach to parenting at the end. Instead, he takes the best elements of it and tempers it by respecting Alexander's wishes as much as his own. COLLABORATIVE PARENTING

Episode's only real weakness is that the soliton wave is boring and nothing more than an excuse for the ship to blow up to imperil Alexander.

8/10


daf

109 | "New Ground"



Alexander's Snagcrime Banned

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Highlights :
• Worf : Greybeard Lampknocker
• Miss Kyle : He bin rogue!
• On the forty-third day of Maktag, my true dad grave to me . . .
• Leave the Kid, it's the Lizard I want!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Other Bits :
• Boring Boneface Doctor Ja'Dar
• Snoozetastic Soliton Wave Waffle
• Holodeck Scrappy Doo
• Lizard Lab Burning Blob
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Score :


Blumf

Quote from: Lemming on December 03, 2021, 01:10:25 PMS05E10 - New Ground

...

- Worf goes to see Troi to get her take on the unfolding saga. He admits he sent Alexander away to Earth in the first place because he didn't feel like he'd be capable of raising him himself. Troi helps him to see this from Alexander's perspective, and the amount of stress and feelings of abandonment it may have sparked.

- This whole scene is great, by the way - I really like that Worf respects Troi and her expertise, when it would have been easy to write him as being dismissive and overconfident in himself. It's also a great scene for Troi, who's skills are taken seriously by the script for once.

I remember being surprised and impressed by this on my first watch back in the day. Really is the kind of thing that elevates Trek above the usual sci-fi (and pretty much 90%+ of drama) guff.

Quote- It's time for Alexander's first day in Enterprise school! The teacher is a panicked fool who seems genuinely shocked at a child being unresponsive. First day on the job, maybe, with no training. Hired by one of those Federation equal opportunity programs, the same one that probably got Riker on board.

Give her a break! It's probably is her first day, replacing the previous teachers at short notice after they were: Killed by Ferengi raiders, borgified, erased from existence accidentally when Q sneezed, torn apart by a holo-deck malfunction, or just plain bummed to death by a space anomaly. All in front of the kids, of course.

Lemming

S05E11 - Hero Worship

After a traumatic event that results in the death of his parents, a young boy begins to emulate Data.

- A ship has gone missing in a weird space zone. After an extremely prolonged ship exploration sequence, the away team finds a lone survivor, a child.

- Directed by Patrick Stewart!

- Data manages a hardcore rescue of the kid by casually tossing aside the big bit of metal that's crushing him (second time a child has been crushed beneath a girder in two episodes!). Shortly afterwards, the kid ends up in counselling to talk about the death of his parents plus friends plus entire crew, where he explains that the ship he was on got its ass kicked by weird aliens in purple helmets.

- The kid, Timothy, refuses to let go of Data's hand, because he thinks Data is WELL COOL. Troi invites Data to participate in the absolutely monster therapy course that Timothy now needs.

- As a kid, Geordi was trapped in a house fire. Cool trauma, but not as cool as Harry Kim's childhood hospital fiasco as relayed in "The Thaw".

- Timothy's been sent to shitty Enterprise school, to make his depression worse. There's another terrible clueless teacher here, different from the one in the previous episode, who has no idea what to do when Timothy becomes slightly unresponsive.

- Geordi, Picard et al are looking into the destruction of Timothy's ship. The verdict is that he's talking shite with his story about aliens coming aboard and killing everyone. Troi can't sense his lies because his EMOTIONAL TRAUMA LEVEL is too high, which you'd think would make it easier. Data is assigned to coax the truth out of him.

- Timothy is stressed because he's making a model which is a) shit and b) impossible to build. Data wows him by building it with his SUPER ANDROID SPEED. Timothy concludes that androids are way better than humans, chiefly because they have no emotions, which sounds great right about now. He begins his android training.

- The Enterprise is preparing to enter the Piss Zone that killed Timothy's ship. Troi goes to check on Timothy and finds out he's now imitating Data and claiming to be an android. This is, she reckons, probably fine, and will sort itself out. She suggests that it should actually be encouraged and indulged, so Data is assigned to make sure Timothy's android persona has accuracy.

- Worf gets tricked by sensor echoes.

- In school, Timothy is finally starting to act normal again, eroding his android persona. Troi's looking like the cat that got the cream because she's been 100% VINDICATED. Her next masterful therapy move is to get Data to explain to Timothy why he thinks humans are so ace. He does this via the mediun of milkshakes.

- Picard fires phasers into the Piss Zone which creates an attractive pattern. From this, they determine that Timothy's ship couldn't have been attacked. Couldn't follow the logic on that, something about cloaks, it's all over my head. Upon being questioned, Timothy admits that he killed everyone.

- Or more precisely, he thinks he killed everyone because he tripped over and his arm hit a computer panel at the same time the ship got ripped apart. Everyone (nicely) tells him he's an idiot and it's obviously not his fault that the ship was destroyed. It was in fact the fault of a NEGATIVE SPACE ORB, which is now consuming the Enterprise.

- By the way, does anyone know the story behind the ensign piloting the ship? She's been in the past few episodes and she gets a lot of dialogue and close-ups, something no other extra gets. I thought it might be some famous person doing a cameo but it doesn't seem to be, the actor is named Sheila Franklin.

- The way out of the anomaly is the classic "aha your attempts to raise shields are KILLING YOU and the only way to escape is to give up and stop fighting it". The Enterprise passes through unharmed thanks to Timothy and Data.

- Timothy, having now returned to his real identity, is in hell class where they sing stupid songs. He apologises for being weird and imitating Data, but Data assures him that the two of them are now Pals.

It's a sweet story, albeit a bit thin and with a very run-of-the-mill anomaly. Data is again written as being genuinely emotionless, which I like.

It suffers a bit from its placement - we've just had an episode about a kid going to Enterprise school, we don't need another one right away! But yeah, it's a nice story with some good material for Data, not much else to say about it. It's cool that Troi's psychiatric skills are taken seriously again and she's treated with respect. I'm surprised by how well the character is treated most of the time, actually - the received wisdom about Troi's role in the show seems to be that she just gets magic headaches and says totally redundant stuff every episode, but that's not really the case outside a few notably poor scripts. 6/10


Lemming

Quote from: Blumf on December 06, 2021, 12:52:15 AMGive her a break! It's probably is her first day, replacing the previous teachers at short notice after they were: Killed by Ferengi raiders, borgified, erased from existence accidentally when Q sneezed, torn apart by a holo-deck malfunction, or just plain bummed to death by a space anomaly. All in front of the kids, of course.

Looks like she's already been slain off-screen and replaced! Although her replacement wears a similar gaudy red jumper, has similar light blonde hair, and also absolutely hates kids. They must be cloning them somewhere on the ship.

Mr Trumpet

Always confuse this with the story where a kid attaches himself to Worf. Why they thought this was worth doing twice I've no idea.

daf

110 | "Hero Worship"



The Cyberdelic Experience by Timothy Weary

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Highlights :
• The Twitchy Neck Sketch
• Dokkaran Temple Tumbledown
• The Data Yawn Sketch
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Other Bits :
• Palm Torch #8 : Iron Crew - Evade from Girders
• Lackluster Black Cluster B-Plot Bluster
• Jackanory Knob
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Score :

Wonderful Butternut

New Ground unfortunately is undone in DS9.

It's obvious from Sons & Daughters that Worf ultimately learned nothing from New Ground, he just sent Alexander away again after the Enterprise is destroyed. Fair enough DS9 mighn't have been a great place for Alexander, especially with looming threats from the Klingons & Dominion, but given Worf's surprise when Alexander turns up on the Rotarran, it's obvious they're not talking. At all. O'Brien calls him out on it in one episode and Worf just cannot argue with him because he's right. And he hasn't told the head of his new house and Klingon BFF Martok that Alexander even exists.

So Worf effectively ignored his son for about two years, and no reason other than thinking he's a shit father is even hinted at. So he solves it by being an even shittier father. What a cunt.

Quote- Enlightened by the THERAPY SESH, Worf goes to try and explain to Alexander what's happening. Lucky break for Worf - Alexander is DESTROYING him with FACTS and LOGIC when Picard calls him to the briefing room.

Funnily enough the exact same thing happens again a few years later when the Jem'Hadar start attacking just as "teenage" Alexander tells Worf that he's always sending him away.

Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse

Wonderful Butternut beat me to it. It's hard for me to enjoy any Worf and Alexander episodes because I know how their relationship turns out. Oh hooray it's the beginning of "Worf is a shitty father". What I particularly dislike is that he bangs on at Alexander about their culture and heritage (and gave K'Ehylar shit because "he knows nothing of our ways") but sent Alexander to live on Earth with his human grandparents. The family friends who raised Kurn couldn't take him? Uncle Kurn couldn't take him? Is it dishonourable in Klingon society to dump your kid on other people because you can't be arsed to try?

And I get that there are rules about child actors and God knows we didn't see Molly O'Brien much either, but Alexander could've been a largely unseen character. The fact that Worf wouldn't bring him to Deep Space Nine, a bustling multicultural facility where he might do well, is baffling and only explained by Worf not giving a shit.

EDIT: and then Jadzia wants a baby with him. WHY.

Mr Trumpet

Worf's stint on DS9 did the character no favours whatsoever. Just a deeply unlikeable figure. Still Michael Dorn got paid to cop off with Terry Farrell so I doubt he's unhappy about it on reflection.

Wonderful Butternut

#1464
Quote from: Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse on December 06, 2021, 01:44:38 PMAnd I get that there are rules about child actors and God knows we didn't see Molly O'Brien much either, but Alexander could've been a largely unseen character. The fact that Worf wouldn't bring him to Deep Space Nine, a bustling multicultural facility where he might do well, is baffling and only explained by Worf not giving a shit.

From a real-world writing perspective Alexander's return is a bit bizarre. Did the audience really need to know that the reason there's no Alexander in DS9 is not because they have no role for the character, but because Worf is a horrible father?

Maybe it was to contrast with Dukat being an outwardly more caring father to Ziyal (today at least), but in reality just using her to try and get close to Kira because he's an evil manipulative shit. Whilst Worf has been outwardly more neglectful to Alexander, but because he's otherwise a decent guy, is at least embarrassed by his behaviour and undertakes to set it right at the end of the episode. Of course we don't know what the outcome of that was beyond Alexander being Worf's best man, as he gets married to someone Alexander probably didn't know even existed a week previously.

Worf & Alexander is picked up in Star Trek Online btw. Guess what? They're estranged.

Anyway too much DS9 talk in a TNG thread. :p

Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse

Alexander as a plot element feels like the writers wanted to give Worf more depth/something to do and decided "let's give him a son and show him struggling with fatherhood". Which is fine, but then later on they realised that giving a character a child isn't the same as giving them a romance subplot that you can easily end with "they break up". Either the kid has to die, or the parent has to leave them with someone else, otherwise you have to always bear in mind that the character has custody of a child.

In DS9 there are three other characters who are dads and two of their kids are secondary characters (Jake Sisko and Nog). Too bad Alexander couldn't have hung out with them or something.

mothman

Quote- By the way, does anyone know the story behind the ensign piloting the ship? She's been in the past few episodes and she gets a lot of dialogue and close-ups, something no other extra gets. I thought it might be some famous person doing a cameo but it doesn't seem to be, the actor is named Sheila Franklin.

Memory Alpha isn't forthcoming. Maybe she was somebody's relative or partner. Maybe they were trying to introduce a few recurring/regular background characters - before the suits got wind of it and put a stop to it in case it jeopardised their precious "stick the eps in any order, it doesn't matter" syndication model. Or she started asking for more money, many extras in many shows have gotten quite transactional when it came to non-speaking versus speaking role rates.


mothman


Lemming

S05E12 - Violations

A psychic assailant forces his way into the minds of some of the crew.

- Aliens of the week: Ullians, who can drag memories out of your mind. This is considered great fun and a cool party trick, so Keiko gets to experience a forgotten childhood memory about caligraphy.

- These guys also read your mind without asking first. The lead guy, Tarmin, does this to Bev, which is fine because "SOMETIMES, WITH A BEAUTIFUL WOMAN, I CANNOT HELP MYSELF ;)". Bev laughs this up instead of phasering him between the eyes.

- Tarmin's son Jev sits down and looks ominous. A scare chord plays so you know he's dodgy as fuck. This happens before the credits even roll!

- Geordi's last birthday was a complete flop. Also, Klingons do not allow themselves to be probed.

- Tarmin is out of fucking control and starts pressuring everyone in a 50 mile radius to take part in his stupid memory-dredging shit.

- Dodgy Jev is hitting it off with Troi because they both absolutely despise their parents. He gives her a perverse lingering look as she walks out of the turbolift. I'm starting to think Weird Jev might be a bit off.

- Troi goes to brush her hair and gets weird memory vision shit. She tries to OD on hot chocolate to nullify the experience but it's no good. The memories intensify and she experiences a vision of Riker forcing himself on her and and molesting her, then he suddenly morphs into Freaky Jev! Troi falls into a coma!

- So the idea here is presumably that her memory with Riker was hijacked and distorted by Degenerate Jev, but... at what point, exactly? She starts resisting and trying to escape before Riker morphs into Depraved Jev, so what the fuck happened in the actual event? The intent very obviously can't be that Riker attacked Troi, and yet this is the second time this has happened - "A Matter of Perspective" all the way back in season two also accidentally suggested Riker might have sexually assaulted someone. In an ideal world, I wouldn't be having to write "I'm sure the writers didn't mean to suggest this character is a rapist" at any point, let alone twice!

- Ex-girlfriend in a coma, and Riker knows it's serious. He would hate anything to happen to her, so he asks Bev if she really thinks she'll pull through. Fuck it, you get the joke I'm trying to do here.

- While Bev goes to check the transporter bio-buffers or whateve the fuck they're called, Riker leads his own investigation by going to see Odd Jev, who denies knowing anything about anything that's ever happened in history. With his only lead now cold, Riker goes to loom over Troi's bed. There's a callback to Shades of Grey! The scene is actually pretty affecting, credit to Frakes for pulling it off.

- In his quarters later, Riker receives a harrowing memory of one of his classic moments of incompetence - running back and forth like a headless chicken and yelling during a warp core breach that resulted in the death of a crewmember. Jev shows up and relishes in tormenting Riker.

- Ted Cruz yells at Riker for his mistakes.


- Then this happens.


- Riker's now coma'd. Everyone's stumped as to why, because it can't have anything to do with the psychics who have no sense of personal boundaries. Worf finally suggests that there could be a connection, but Picard dismisses him until Bev pulls out her MEDICAL SMOKING GUN that suggests Riker and Troi's memories have been tampered with.

- The Ullians are called to a big meeting. Tarmin and Rapey Jev are prats but luckily Tarmin's Wife Who's Name I Didn't Catch is alright and she agrees to cooperate with the investigation. Keiko gets called into sickbay to see if she's gone all weird post-probe but she says that seeing the ink cup was the best thing that's ever happened to her, was absolutely ace, cleared her skin up, brought riches into her life, etc. Geordi takes a shot at using his ENGINEERING EXPERTISE to crack the case, which means strutting around Engineering and spinning around on the fun chairs while the computer tries to figure out what's up. I like how the computer is crazy intelligent but needs to be coaxed step-by-step into doing anything. You'd think they'd have some kind of AI that would avoid the user having to do what Geordi does here, but I suppose that'd ruin a lot of stories by making everything way too easy.

- Bev is, for some reason, grinning madly at the computer displaying her best friend's fucked up comatose brain stats. She sees a laugh-out-loud funny vision of Picard with shit hair, and herself with even worse hair. They go to see Jack Crusher's corpse (RIP, killed by Picard's inferior command style). But watch out, it's not Jack's corpse, it's CREEPY JEV and he's being weird again! Bev falls into a coma.

- Troi wakes up and asks to see Picard, to tell him she has no idea what happened just there. With this crucial new info, Picard goes to restrict the Ullians to their quarters, which sends Tarmin into another piss-fit.

- Bastard Jev brings up the possibility of mind rape, because he's a SICK BASTARD who loves to watch Picard SQUIRM. Troi agrees to take part in an investigation in which Queer-In-A-19th-Century-Sense-Of-The-Word,-Meaning-Not-Quite-Right Jev will be the one to probe her mind.

- Awful Jev tauntingly has Troi recreate the lead-up to the assault, and then reveals the memories. But he's tampered with them and framed Tarmin as the assailant. Picard can't do shit because there's no law against memory invasion - you'd think there'd be some Betazoid or Vulcan law they could get him on. Enterprise suggests that mind melds used to be illegal on Vulcan.

- It looks like it's all over for Tarmin. Data and Geordi have found records of previous assaults, and begin sending those planets information on the truth about the comas. But they also find that Tarmin was absent during some of the assaults...

- Slimy Jev can't resist one last hurrah and he goes to Troi's quarters to say goodbye. She's vaguely polite to him, which sends him into rapey-bastard overdrive and causes him to attempt another attack. Troi smacks him about and knees him in the nuts a few times until Worf, who has been sent to the rescue by Data and Geordi, enters and one-hit-KOs him.

- Tarmin and Tarmin's-Wife-Who-I-Can't-Name attend a briefing with Troi, Riker and Bev where they apologise for how insanely badly their whole stay on the Enterprise has gone and promise to put them in contact with some good Ullian physicians. He also calls what happened an act of rape, in case you missed the metaphor before now.

I'm not at all sure what the point of the episode is, even just as a piece of entertainment. I think most people will agree that rape is viscerally upsetting in a way that other acts of violence aren't necessarily, so if you're going to raise the issue in a TV show, you'd better make something good - ideally something better than Tasha Yar's "rape gangs" or Weird Jev. The episode doesn't seem to have anything to say - there's a rapist on board who attacks people and is eventually caught. This is acknowledged as being bad, and Picard wraps the whole thing up with a bizarre "well maybe everyone's a potential psychopath deep down" speech.

Other than the aimlessness of the script, the attacks themselves are sort of sensational and played for shock. They're actually pretty compelling and frightening if you just watch them as freaky sci-fi mindfucks, but if you're writing an episode that's an allegory for rape, do you really want to sensationalise and linger on the assault scenes, indulging in and playing up the horror? Not really. It doesn't come across like the issue is being approached sensitively at all. Of the victims, only Troi even regains consciousness before the end, and while she shows strength of character and courage in agreeing to revisit the memories to discover what's happened, that's not really what the episode seems to be about. Besides, she gets attacked again afterwards and has to knee him in the bollocks.

I typically don't go looking to see what writers said about each episode, but in this case I was confused enough to check it out. Jeri Taylor says:
"we wanted to avoid the classic rape story, which is someone gets raped and then we do the emotional aftermath. That's a story that's been told and told and told and told. We felt we had nothing fresh to offer."
But what did this story offer instead? I genuinely have no idea. There's not even an exploration as to why Jev might do this, if there's some kind of equivalent to rape culture in Ullian society - Tarmin is extremely overbearing and willing to ignore people's boundaries, which could have given the writers an angle to interrogate Jev's brainwrongery, but it's not pursued at all. Plus, the metaphor is somehow simultaneously extremely obvious from the get-go, but also so distorted by the sci-fi veneer that it's impossible to really take any offence at the episode. I'm just not sure the best way to talk about something with the potential to be so deeply upsetting and sensitive is through a story about cool mindfuckery and a shot of Jonathan Frakes' sweaty head hitting a table.

To move away from the episode's topic and just focus on it as a piece of entertainment, it's not great - the episode tells you Jev's a Right Wrongun before the credits, and he's revealed as the assailant pretty much instantly, so it's one of those episodes where you watch Data and Geordi monotone their way through the motions of discovering what you've already known for half an hour. And it's not like Jev is a master criminal who outwits the heroes at every turn in a frantic game of 5D speed chess - he's a fucking idiot who makes no attempt to cover his tracks.

I'd forgotten this episode's ending and, when Jev started forcing Troi back into the memory at the end, I honestly thought she was going to have some kind of psychic duel with him where she trapped him in a memory for a change, or just gave him the Psychic Glare until his head exploded, or inserted herself into his memories and sent him mental. Which would have probably been a more exciting ending, but wouldn't work at all when taken alongside the topic that the episode is trying to address.

3/10