David Baddiel to tell us about online abuse

[BeardFaceMan]

What kind of prep would you even need to do on a show like Would I Lie To You?, that's the very definition of just turn up. Probably a bit different as it's an American show but I saw a video with one of the comedians who went on At Midnight and went through the process, how the writers gave them the jokes, arguing with the other comedians over who gets what joke etc.

That's why the likes of Sean Lock and Paul Merton are happy to see through the rest of their days doing panel shows, it's far easier and requires less work than doing stand-up or sitcoms. It might be a good thing or a bad thing, but it's definitely a thing.

[gilbertharding]

What kind of prep would you even need to do on a show like Would I Lie To You?, that's the very definition of just turn up.

Presumably you would need to supply the writers with two or three ridiculous sounding but true anecdotes which you hadn't already used hundreds of times in your career (which brings us back to Baddiel).

[lb99]

What kind of prep would you even need to do on a show like Would I Lie To You?, that's the very definition of just turn up. Probably a bit different as it's an American show but I saw a video with one of the comedians who went on At Midnight and went through the process, how the writers gave them the jokes, arguing with the other comedians over who gets what joke etc.

Having not worked on it, I wouldn't know exactly, but I would say you'd need to have all the anecdotes prepped along with jokes to go with that anecdote.

[BeardFaceMan]

Presumably you would need to supply the writers with two or three ridiculous sounding but true anecdotes which you hadn't already used hundreds of times in your career (which brings us back to Baddiel).

That's what I mean, I think WILTY? is the perfect panel show in that respect. From the producers side, you just ask the guests for a few choice anecdotes, create a few false ones (not even whole anecdotes, just one line and maybe a few other lines or jokes for guidance), and ask the guests if there's someone they can bring in. From the guests point of view, all you have to do is tell a story you already have and wing it when presented with a lie (or use some of the show writers gags). Minimal effort from both sides, it's the perfect panel show formula for everybody involved. It can even be very funny. But again, panel shows being easier and less work is a thing, whether you think that's good or bad is up to you. Some guests, like Bob Mortimer or Greg Davies, genuinely could turn up doing no prep on a panel show and tear the fucking house down. Others, like Jamelia, can do all the prep and research in the world and be given the best jokes mankind has to offer and she would still be shit.

[scarecrow]

Didn't he nick someone's joke from the internet and have to cop to it? Can't remember if it was a tweet or what.

I once did an interview with Mark Steel, who acted like a total prat throughout, refusing to discuss the show he was promoting in favour of repeatedly bellowing 'it's just a funny story' whenever I dared to ask him about it. One of the more generous moments of the interview was when he told me an anecdote about bettering some chump on Twitter. Of course, a cursory look at his feed after the fact revealed that he'd swapped roles with this much funnier member of the public. Truly sociopathic.

[gilbertharding]

Others, like Jamelia, can do all the prep and research in the world and be given the best jokes mankind has to offer and she would still be shit.

Shit? Or just not a comedian?

The same thing applies as I was saying about Taskmaster: some people provide comedy by being there to be laughed at. They just have to say something which the other, funnier people in the room can use as a launch pad. You need light and shade. Contrasts.

One of the funniest things I can remember off the top of my head on Would I Lie to You was Nick Hewer (not one of nature's clowns, you would have thought) and his extra large jumper.

You seem to have said yourself, the important thing is whether or not it's funny. So why the apparent fixation on how much work might or might not have gone into it?

I seem to remember the 'writers room'/preparation thing was discussed in one of the threads about Never Mind the Buzzcocks, in relation to Adam Buxton's unhappy experience there.

[robhug]

Daisy May Cooper was great on TM and it isn't humanly possible to put in less effort than she did

[BeardFaceMan]

You seem to have said yourself, the important thing is whether or not it's funny. So why the apparent fixation on how much work might or might not have gone into it?

No fixation, just saying it's a thing as some people seem to be denying it is and I disagree, that's all. Again, listen to Sean Lock talk about why he does panel shows instead of sitcoms, it's less work and good money.

Shit? Or just not a comedian?

I mean shit. As in, not able to be funny or entertaining like many other non-comedians are (like Nick Hewer) on these shows, so why is she booked on them at all, kind of thing.

[lb99]

No fixation, just saying it's a thing as some people seem to be denying it is and I disagree, that's all. Again, listen to Sean Lock talk about why he does panel shows instead of sitcoms, it's less work and good money.

It is less work than writing a sitcom (which is a huge amount of work), but it's still work and effort. All I'm saying is that it's extremely rare for a comedian to go on a panel show having not done any prep, or just taking a load of pre-prepared jokes from a writer. You can disagree with an opinion, but that's not what I'm stating here.

[Zetetic]

All I'm saying is that it's extremely rare for a comedian to go on a panel show having not done any prep...

And what about David Baddiel?

[lb99]

And what about David Baddiel?

Not saying it doesn't happen, but it's rare, and annoying for everyone else (but yeah fair point, we have gone off topic here).

[Brundle-Fly]

No fixation, just saying it's a thing as some people seem to be denying it is and I disagree, that's all. Again, listen to Sean Lock talk about why he does panel shows instead of sitcoms, it's less work and good money.

Sean Lock got slightly burnt over 15 Storeys High and wasn't being offered any more slots for his narrative comedy, is it any wonder he jumped on the panel show circuit.

[Brundle-Fly]

And what about David Baddiel?

...and maybe more importantly, online abuse?

[Barry Admin]

Sean Lock got slightly burnt over 15 Storeys High and wasn't being offered any more slots for his narrative comedy, is it any wonder he jumped on the panel show circuit.

But he's not bitter!

[Zetetic]

...and maybe more importantly, online abuse?

I'll admit that I never do any prep for my online abuse.

[Virgo76]

https://www.comedy.co.uk/people/news/6476/david-baddiel-social-media-documentary/

Delighted that the person who successfully contributed to the media pile on that stopped a half-decent government getting into power is going to tell us why online abuse is wrong (presumably, mostly against wealthy members of the London media elite).

I haven't read his book yet.
I heard him talk about it on the Richard Herring podcast and he seemed to be generally making reasonable points.
I'm not really a fan of the tendency by some to dismiss any criticism at all of the Corbyn Labour Party's poor handling of the anti-semitism problem from any public figures, Jewish or otherwise, as if they've all been inspired by some insane Jewish plot to destroy the Left.
I suspect Baddiel is generally sympathetic to Labour and the Left and was just voicing concerns about the problem in the party, amongst many other things.
Even if anyone is convinced there was no anti-semitism issue within the party at all, surely the best response is not to launch a vicious and sustained internet onslaught on any Jewish public figures who dare to voice any criticism of Labour on the issue?
It's not a good look!

[KennyMonster]

I haven't read his book yet.

He deliberately doctored quotes made by a left wing, Corbyn supporting journalist in it to make her look bad.
He hardly did any research on it at all, just copy and pasted rumours and things that he reckoned as facts.
The book is bollocks

I heard him talk about it on the Richard Herring podcast and he seemed to be generally making reasonable points.

Herring is hardly a master interviewer is he, he does next to fuck all research at the best of time, let alone with something of this complexity and importance.

I'm not really a fan of the tendency by some to dismiss any criticism at all of the Corbyn Labour Party's poor handling of the anti-semitism problem from any public figures, Jewish or otherwise, as if they've all been inspired by some insane Jewish plot to destroy the Left.

It wasn't poorly handled, Corbyn's enemies within Labour deliberately sat on complaints and only brought them to light when it was politically opportunistic to them. Once Corbyn got his preferred people in those positions the cases were dealt with more promptly and more seriously, this is all in the report into Labour's handling of AS, Corbyn is exonerated in that part, its just you wouldn't know it by only following the headlines.

and who the fuck is saying its an insane Jewish plot to destory the left?!?!?!!?

Fuck you and your antisemitic slut against Corbyn supporters!

(The claim from us  was that the Israeli governments" lobbyists were behind a lot of it, you seem to equate the behavior of the state of Israel with all Jews, and are therefore being antisemitic as it has been defined).   

I suspect Baddiel is generally sympathetic to Labour and the Left and was just voicing concerns about the problem in the party, amongst many other things.

I suspect not, there's no evidence of this, he's even been shown here to be saying he's not left wing or right wing, just smugly pronouncing himself to be correct whatever he does or says.

Once again you've repeated the lie of there being "the problem in the party", if you look at other parties and society as a whole then there was never any problem, only reports of one.
(I will admit that now the party has a leader who has publicly made antisemitic comments for political ends but so has the Tory leader).

Even if anyone is convinced there was no anti-semitism issue within the party at all, surely the best response is not to launch a vicious and sustained internet onslaught on any Jewish public figures who dare to voice any criticism of Labour on the issue?
It's not a good look!

Well I haven't launched a vicious and sustained internet onslaught on him or any Jewish public figures who do this.

I will call out the lies and misinformation though.

and I don't believe, like you do, that a public figure like him, who has a history of having racist views, gets a free pass because he's Jewish nor do I support your view that vicious and sustained internet onslaughts are OK on Jews "who dare to voice any criticism of Labour" if they are not public figures.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Thanks Kenny, you speak for me too in your reply there.

[jobotic]

I'm not really a fan of the tendency by some to dismiss any criticism at all of the Corbyn Labour Party's poor handling of the anti-semitism problem from any public figures, Jewish or otherwise, as if they've all been inspired by some insane Jewish plot to destroy the Left.

Don't be coy - who are the "some" you speak of here?

It's not an insane Jewish plot to destroy the left, it's a smear campaign by the right and they are happy to smear Jewish people as part of that campaign.

[Povidone]

Dont mind derailing another corbyn/AS diversion (not that I dont have my own feelings on that) by musing on this blackbird stuff from a couple of pages back re:baddeil and intelligence. I thought it was interesting what Autopsy Turvey said about him not necessarily having to know that information (which is of course true) and also drawing a parallel with Sherlock Holmes.

Mainly because the intellect of Sherlock is a superpowered fiction that exists within those books, basically the idea posited of only knowing what you need to know would fall flat immediately in real life and prove a dismal failure. Here enters Baddeil. I would suggest him not knowing something so completely ubiquitous suggests a lack of curiosity about the world that contradicts his self appointed position of Very Intelligent Man and shows him up as being lazy, arrogant and self centered.

I mean just in the course of writing this post I learned that blackbirds are of the genus turdus and at no point was I a patronising wanker on twitter. It wasnt even difficult.

Also looked up what FBPE stands for. Fuck me. Grave, I believe is what people say around these parts.

[Autopsy Turvey]

Mainly because the intellect of Sherlock is a superpowered fiction that exists within those books, basically the idea posited of only knowing what you need to know would fall flat immediately in real life

It's not just 'knowing what you need to know', because I suppose you never know when you're going to need to know something. But there's an awful lot of mundane everyday trivia that you'll only ever need in a pub quiz. The man who doesn't know or care that a crow is not a blackbird is likely to know and care about reams of other interesting stuff that you have no clue about.

I would suggest him not knowing something so completely ubiquitous suggests a lack of curiosity about the world that contradicts his self appointed position of Very Intelligent Man and shows him up as being lazy, arrogant and self centered.

Only if he's set himself up as a Man Who Knows Everything, From The Beasts Of The Field To The Stars In The Heavens, which I don't think he has. You can be massively well-read and knowledgeable about multiple fields, and never realised (or forgotten because it's not important) that a crow is a black bird not a blackbird. Curiosity about the world is all very well, but the world is a massive subject, and it's possible to be curious about it for 35 years without getting round to the definition of 'blackbird'.

But this is obvious; if someone you like had admitted this, your assessment of their character would not be so withering. Because it's the SPLITTER Baddiel, his ignorance of avian taxonomy is just more evidence of his lazy arrogant cuntishness.

[Povidone]

Nobody I like would EVER admit to not knowing what a blackbird is if they knew what was fucking good for them!

Seriously though I find it bizarrely egregious and yes admittedly it's entirely rooted in my own subjective notions about what intelligence actually is.

If I went round to a mate's garden and they were unable to name a common garden bird that they probably see on a daily basis I'd be pretty disappointed. It's not like he's on the cutting edge of academia and doesnt have time for these trifles. He presumably has a garden and kids, and was a kid once. Literally only needed to be told once as a toddler what a blackbird is and have managed to retain that information. Granted I dont have several degrees but I struggle to imagine what I would replace that of information with? What foods to eat if you want to leave a disgusting shit at a toddlers birthday party? I already know that!

[gilbertharding]

Even if it is true that there is a limited number of facts which can be stored in the brain, that number must be so large it's not a practical concern. Especially, you would have thought, to someone with a double first in English from Cambridge.

(That's English, mind you - presumably a degree which involved lots of poetry, much of which is concerned with nature - not pure maths, or engineering or something).

In fact - I don't believe David Baddiel doesn't know that a blackbird is a species of bird. I think, on reflection, it was all for the purposes of a joke. A bad joke which doesn't bear the slightest scrutiny - because it ignores the fact that it is quite easy for people (people who care about birds - not necessarily David Baddiel) to recognise birds without even seeing them, by their song.

[Autopsy Turvey]

If I went round to a mate's garden and they were unable to name a common garden bird that they probably see on a daily basis I'd be pretty disappointed.

Baddiel would be able to name a blackbird though, he'd look at the black bird and say "that's a black bird". Just that he'd say the same about crows, ravens, rooks and jays. If I had a friend who wasn't able to visually distinguish between crows, ravens, rooks, jays and blackbirds I like to think I'd be disappointed in him, and forevermore take the piss that his parents hated him so much they didn't even buy him Olsen's Standard Book Of British Birds for Christmas. That's if I even wanted to stay friends with a cunt like that.

Is it just standard British birds that all people must recognise in order to be perceived as intelligent? Can we think less of people if they can't tell the difference between pedunculate and sessile oaks? "Don't you even know that sessile acorns grow in clusters, you lazy arrogant cunt"?

[gilbertharding]

By the way, this is from his wiki page:

In March 2018, Baddiel appeared on Daily Politics, in which he described antisemitism as "sort of invisible" to Jeremy Corbyn and others on the political left because they are focused on "fighting the good fight against capitalism". In February 2020, Baddiel told The Guardian that Holocaust denial is "a direct way of saying Jews are liars, Jews have tricked the world for their own gain, Jews are the most evil, pernicious race that exist. It is hate speech. There's no other conclusion."

Why are these two sentences are in the same paragraph? Does someone want you to come away with the impression that Corbyn is a holocaust denier?

Of course not.

By the way, the previous couple of paragraphs are luke-warm support for Corbyn.

[gilbertharding]

Baddiel would be able to name a blackbird though, he'd look at the black bird and say "that's a black bird". Just that he'd say the same about crows, ravens, rooks and jays. If I had a friend who wasn't able to visually distinguish between crows, ravens, rooks, jays and blackbirds I like to think I'd be disappointed in him, and forevermore take the piss that his parents hated him so much they didn't even buy him Olsen's Standard Book Of British Birds for Christmas. That's if I even wanted to stay friends with a cunt like that.

Is it just standard British birds that all people must recognise in order to be perceived as intelligent? Can we think less of people if they can't tell the difference between pedunculate and sessile oaks? "Don't you even know that sessile acorns grow in clusters, you lazy arrogant cunt"?

No. No no no.

It isn't the fact that he doesn't know there are different kinds of black birds (including the blackbird) - if that's even true. That's fine, more or less. It's the fact that he can't imagine other people knowing.

Oh, and Jays aren't black birds.

[Autopsy Turvey]

No. No no no. It isn't the fact that he doesn't know there are different kinds of black birds (including the blackbird) - if that's even true. That's fine, more or less. It's the fact that he can't imagine other people knowing.

Oh bloody hell.

Oh, and Jays aren't black birds.

FUCK'S SAKE.

I'm going to put myself on an ignore list.

Edit: Jackdaw! I meant jackdaw. Confused with jay because, well because they begin with a jay.

[Povidone]

Olsen's Standard Book Of British Birds

Quite, passed this on to a few mates whose bird knowledge I believed to be sub par. You think David Baddiel in his ivory oxbridge tower is going to take reading advice from the likes of me, will he fuck. And this is why I've no intention of ever going to Israel on my holidays.

EDIT: you'd think at this point I'd learn to spell Baddiel

[gilbertharding]

Oh bloody hell.

What? It's clear from the joke that's what he thinks.

FUCK'S SAKE.

I'm going to put myself on an ignore list.

Edit: Jackdaw! I meant jackdaw. Confused with jay because, well because they begin with a jay.

Jays are corvids, though -  so, you know... I thought you'd looked at a list of crows.

[Autopsy Turvey]

What? It's clear from the joke that's what he thinks.

Ah well y'see I've been working off this:

lest us not mention the time on Unplanned in 2003 where they made a whole bit out of David's astonishment that a "blackbird" was actually a species of bird, and not just a "black bird" like a crow.

The Blackbird joke that was attributed to him I actually thought was someone doing a sort of parody of what a shit Baddiel routine about blackbirds might have looked like.

Jays are corvids, though -  so, you know... I thought you'd looked at a list of crows.

No, I knew there was a black bird beginning with a J, so I just stopped at the first letter.