Doctor Who Series 13: Goodbye, Mr. Chibs

[Mister Six]

Oh god, the thought of him dragging this out for three more episodes...

[Norton Canes]

Watched my first ten-minute shitisode. Then watched part one of The Ribos Operation to refamiliarise myself with a properly scripted story.

[The Roofdog]

And why does she call herself The Doctor? What's the point in having "our" Doctor (starting with Hartnell) memory wiped if that version of the character isn't fundamentally different from the version that was in Division, pre-memory wipe. The version we know is only "special", only unique if their new life makes them a different person after the memory wipe; a better person, a more carefree person, a more curious person, a more compassionate person. Whatever you want to say about our Doctor, you do that by contrasting her with what she was like before - not by showing she was basically the same person pre-memory wipe, even down to choosing the name Doctor.

But isn't this the crux of the shitshow the RuthDoctor thing is racing towards, either the Doctor *is* a psychopath who once worked for Division or the Doctor is some weird accident that happened the 407th time they mind-wiped that psychopath. There's no way Chibnall gives us a reasonable way out of this even on that character level.

[Kelvin]

But isn't this the crux of the shitshow the RuthDoctor thing is racing towards, either the Doctor *is* a psychopath who once worked for Division or the Doctor is some weird accident that happened the 407th time they mind-wiped that psychopath. There's no way Chibnall gives us a reasonable way out of this even on that character level.

Of course he won't, but we already know that Ruth Doctor was - bar her use of guns - not that dissimilar to the Doctor who ran away from Galifrey. Hence why she was mindwiped in the first place; because she had too much compassion. So why do our 13 Doctors matter, if thousands of them have been just as decent, and just as deserving of the title Doctor? 

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

Oh good that'll make the standalone specials suitably accessible.

It's such a shame, as more viewers than usual will watch the BBC centenary special next autumn. Whittaker's last hurrah. An episode written by Chibnall.

The BBC and RTD will really have to make an extra special effort to relaunch the show a few months later. "We're back! No, properly this time! It'll be dead good, honest!"

[Natnar]

I bet it'll turn out that Honeycomb Face and his Sister can't disintigrate the Doctor because she is from another universe. She's got a weird molecular thing going on that they can't destroy or something.

[Replies From View]

It's quite funny to look at where Doctor Who is now, with its convoluted expositional crap forming objectively into nothing exciting or engaging whatsoever, and then immediately think of those people who insist that Doctor Who is a children's programme.


I'm reminded of those Mr Plinkett reviews where they add sequences from the Star Wars prequels into a TV that children are watching, and it's all boring men standing around having a meeting about trade routes.

[thr0b]

Perfect description.

And yeah, Dan is such a typically sketchy, first draft Chibnall companion. Episode one went out of its way to establish him as a kind, selfless, salt-of-the-earth geezer. But none of those traits have proved significant at all. He's just A Man who's bumbling around time and space with people he barely knows (well he must know Yaz and Jericho quite well by now, what with having spent three years in their company; but none of that comes across on screen).

I'm fairly sure that when his casting was announced, Chinballs said that he'd been planning to introduce Dan from the outset, that the show had been building to his introduction, so the extent that he must be pretty significant.

So far the most significant thing about him is the Evil Dan meme on YouTube, which is fantastic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDCPLS3vq44

Nothing against John Bishop. He's doing fine with what he has to work with, elevating it even.

And at least Yaz is getting stuff to do this series; it's been three years, she should. Even the hints at some kind of romance between her and the Doctor though - they're a bit bland. Not a will-they-won't-they thing, not even an are-they-aren't-they. It's...there. But there is nothing of it. It's a shame, as Mandip is a very good actor, but again with not much to work with.

[mothman]

I bet it'll turn out that Honeycomb Face and his Sister can't disintigrate the Doctor because she is from another universe. She's got a weird molecular thing going on that they can't destroy or something.

Done right, this might actually work. The Doctor could even make a gag along the lines of...

Well, performance issues. It's not uncommon. One out of five–

But, as I say, done right...

[Replies From View]

I honestly wonder whether it was reviewing Flux that made the BBC realise Chibnall needed ridding.  And that's why we only started hearing about it - what felt like a sudden and urgent decision - in the later stages of its production.

It's alienating on all fronts and it would have been axed had they not had the reassurance of RTD coming back.  That's what I truly reckon.



Really am curious to imagine what RTD can possibly have in mind to salvage the show.  It will be fascinating to witness.

[lipsink]

I made it half way through the latest episode. I think I'm done with the Flux series and possibly even Chibs Who. I don't have the strength or patience to sit through it anymore. I'll probably just wait till RTD's Who and maybe even just watch the last Chibs episode to see the regeneration.

[thr0b]

Nah, I think that's reading too much into it. The final form of the series will have been driven by how they could produce it within Covid restrictions. So - a small core cast, with minimal guests of the week, mostly isolating those cast members into specific groups*, lots of green-screen work - that bit on the mountain in particular stood out as them not being on a hill at all, though it could also have been curious lighting.

* Because if Jodie goes off sick, you can still film the companion scenes, as they're split. And vice-versa.

As a production, it's a very impressive achievement, as it was made at the height of the Covid restrictions.

[Bad Ambassador]

All of which pays tribute to the supreme efforts of the production staff, the cast and technicians in getting this done in conditions of unprecedented difficulty and not letting it show in the finished product.

Which is outweighted by the overwhelming shittiness of the writing, which ruins everything.

[McDead]

I'm fairly sure that when his casting was announced, Chinballs said that he'd been planning to introduce Dan from the outset, that the show had been building to his introduction, so the extent that he must be pretty significant.

So far the most significant thing about him is the Evil Dan meme on YouTube, which is fantastic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDCPLS3vq44

Nothing against John Bishop. He's doing fine with what he has to work with, elevating it even.

I distinctly remember there being some pre-series bumf about Dan being a really significant character with a big secret, and they couldn't reveal the character's surname because it was a spoiler... Something like that. So there was speculation that it was going to be Noble, or Smith (as in Sarah Jane Smith). And it's... Lewis. Am I misremembering this, or as has there been a major change of plan?

[frajer]

So far the most significant thing about him is the Evil Dan meme on YouTube, which is fantastic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDCPLS3vq44

"What's the point in being alive" never fails to get me laughing.

[Cloud]

Even the hints at some kind of romance between her and the Doctor though - they're a bit bland. Not a will-they-won't-they thing, not even an are-they-aren't-they. It's...there. But there is nothing of it. It's a shame, as Mandip is a very good actor, but again with not much to work with.

I honestly am not seeing what other people are seeing between them two, and I ship the heck out of characters in other shows.

There's definitely an affection there, but I'm not sensing anyone wanting to kiss or whatever, more just "they're friends, maybe a bit of a (*cringe*) 'fam', and care about each other" but that's about it, maybe I've not been paying attention since most of the run pre-Flux has been boring as hell, but have just not picked up on much more.

[Mister Six]

It's alienating on all fronts and it would have been axed had they not had the reassurance of RTD coming back.  That's what I truly reckon.

Maybe, but I don't think it got to the point where axing was on the cards. I would if it were business as usual except RTD is in charge, but the introduction of Bad Wolf as the co-production company is too big a change, I think. The first moves on that must surely after season 12 at the latest.

If you want to believe RTD has faith in his chum Chris then the shift to 10-episode seasons and ongoing "one season whenever we get around to it" format were the main motivators. But realistically, I think most people here, myself included, can't picture a reality where RTD isn't watching the unfolding Timeless Child mess and general low quality of writing without covering his eyes with his hands and moaning, "Oh god, he's going to kill the show I resurrected all over again..."

But yeah, if the Bad Wolf thing hadn't been part of the announcement, I could see the Beeb considering killing the show, or at least shelving it indefinitely until someone stepped up to revive it, and giving RTD that ultimatum. As it is, I think he proactively approached them, in part to save the show given the lack of quality control and in part because he could finally attempt that MCU-style Whoniverse model he'd been envisioning.

[Replies From View]

Nah, I think that's reading too much into it. The final form of the series will have been driven by how they could produce it within Covid restrictions. So - a small core cast, with minimal guests of the week, mostly isolating those cast members into specific groups*, lots of green-screen work - that bit on the mountain in particular stood out as them not being on a hill at all, though it could also have been curious lighting.

* Because if Jodie goes off sick, you can still film the companion scenes, as they're split. And vice-versa.

As a production, it's a very impressive achievement, as it was made at the height of the Covid restrictions.

Yeah, but frenetic yet dull expositional fanwank that alienates the fuck out of every long-standing viewer and makes no sense to anyone else doesn't automatically follow.

[thr0b]

Again, I'll say that my eight-year-old is loving this series, and asks me daily if a new episode is on tonight. Which for a show that goes out at half six is exactly what the BBC wants.

It's really only us adults who get bogged down in annoyances about it.

(She does still prefer Capaldi, though Tennant and Smith are her favourites.)

Additionally - I don't find anything difficult to follow in this story. It's a side-effect of Chibnall's writing style, rather than an intention, but the five episodes so far have been much easier to follow than a Moffat arc, though a tenth as good.

[Huxleys Babkins]

I honestly am not seeing what other people are seeing between them two, and I ship the heck out of characters in other shows.

There's definitely an affection there, but I'm not sensing anyone wanting to kiss or whatever, more just "they're friends, maybe a bit of a (*cringe*) 'fam', and care about each other" but that's about it, maybe I've not been paying attention since most of the run pre-Flux has been boring as hell, but have just not picked up on much more.

Yeah, it's actually quite sad reading LGBTQ+ folks on Twitter talking about how moved they were by the Doctor's holographic message, that it was irrefutable evidence that the Doctor and Yaz's relationship isn't just platonic, that it means so much to have a Doctor that's just like them. It's like reading a bus timetable and proclaiming you've found the next testament of the Bible.

[Mister Six]

I honestly am not seeing what other people are seeing between them two, and I ship the heck out of characters in other shows.

There's definitely an affection there, but I'm not sensing anyone wanting to kiss or whatever, more just "they're friends, maybe a bit of a (*cringe*) 'fam', and care about each other" but that's about it, maybe I've not been paying attention since most of the run pre-Flux has been boring as hell, but have just not picked up on much more.

Yaz's mum or sister or someone asked if The Doctor was her girlfriend, suggesting she's at least interested in women, and she's had a couple of lines expressing some kind of unrequited crush on The Doctor (in Villa, I think, a woman saying she's in love with someone who doesn't even notice, and Yaz saying "I know how that feels"). But like all characterisation in the Chibnall era, it's an occasional, inconsistent afterthought and not something that is central to the character's identity or motivations.

Martha's moping and Bill mentioning every other episode that she's gay got a bit old, so there's something to be said for not hammering it home constantly, but it makes the shippers seem completely detached from reality.

[Cloud]

Ah fair enough, yeah guess it's more that I wasn't paying close enough attention then.

To be fair, my perspective is very unusual around all that - really not very good at picking up on signals unless there's obvious flirting, and my lines between friendship and love (particularly as a bi) tend to be pretty blurry.  The hologram message was very sweet sure, but it registered to me as "yeah this is what I'd do for someone I care about" (and you're going to care about someone you're travelling with by choice every day) whether that form of care is like a family, or a close friend, or indeed a romantic interest. Heck those are all connections where we feel love, of some form, if I understand anything of the concept.  It's just that friends don't often voice it unless they're drunk or something, but they might show it in ways like that and saying they miss each other.

Still, it was a very flustered "thanks... at least I hope you said you missed me too..." so I suppose in hindsight they might have a point, there might be more feelings going on that are making her all flustered like that - hard to tell as this incarnation is constantly tripping over her own words as it is.

[Ron Maels Moustache]

I honestly wonder whether it was reviewing Flux that made the BBC realise Chibnall needed ridding.  And that's why we only started hearing about it - what felt like a sudden and urgent decision - in the later stages of its production.

It's alienating on all fronts and it would have been axed had they not had the reassurance of RTD coming back.  That's what I truly reckon.



Really am curious to imagine what RTD can possibly have in mind to salvage the show.  It will be fascinating to witness.

Whatever happens, I'm almost certain it will effectively be a soft reboot in much the same way it's been when any showrunner has taken on the job since 2005, still recognisably the same show but dropping any continuity baggage from recent years that risks alienating new viewers. And with any luck, this current era of the show will have at much lasting impact as other misguided canonical revisions like in the TV Movie and Death Comes To Time, i.e. none at all.

And thinking about it perhaps that's why Chibnall's had such a free hand to do whatever he wants because in the end none of it will matter in the long term anyway, it's all most likely just going in the bin when RTD comes back.

[daf]

Whatever happens, I'm almost certain it will effectively be a soft reboot

[Cloud]

I would be happy-ish with the Red Dwarf approach. Where they just completely ignore what just happened and never speak of it again, no explanation at all. Rimmer's back, they're back on the empty  Dwarf, any questions? TOUGH NO QUESTIONS

It'd cause nerd arguments until the end of time trying to reconcile the broken canon though

[Mr Trumpet]

Additionally - I don't find anything difficult to follow in this story. It's a side-effect of Chibnall's writing style, rather than an intention, but the five episodes so far have been much easier to follow than a Moffat arc, though a tenth as good.

Actually while I agree that Moffat was a better writer/showrunner overall, this Flux storyline is significantly less irritating and impenetrable than Moffat's Impossible Astronaut thing. But I suppose it was the terrible conclusion to that story which really soured it all, so perhaps it remains to be seen where Flux stands.

[mjwilson]

It'd cause nerd arguments until the end of time trying to reconcile the broken canon though

Secretly that is all Doctor Who fans want

[notjosh]

Actually while I agree that Moffat was a better writer/showrunner overall, this Flux storyline is significantly less irritating and impenetrable than Moffat's Impossible Astronaut thing. But I suppose it was the terrible conclusion to that story which really soured it all, so perhaps it remains to be seen where Flux stands.

I find it difficult to judge how easy this arc is to follow as I don't really care enough to notice what the loose ends are. But just as an exercise, here's what I think the story is so far, as someone who has watched all the episodes only once without giving much thought to it in between:

A shadowy organisation called Division, which is based in the gap between universes, has been interfering in stuff for absolutely ages, for some reason. It's headed by the person who discovered the Doctor as a child and genetically engineered the Timelord race from her DNA. They had been employing the Doctor as an agent until (s)he went rogue and left them, for some reason. After leaving the Doctor alone for many centuries, they eventually got fed up of her interfering and decided just to destroy the Doctor's universe with something called the Flux and go to another univserse, even though (I think) they're based outside our universe and not actually inside it. Unfortunately the Flux has been hijacked by some scary bastards call The Swarm who had been imprisoned by Division, for some reason, and escaped, somehow, in order to feed off its energy and do something (not sure what). Part of their plan involved hijacking the temple on a planet called Time, through which all time must flow and making Yaz one of the time monks so that she would be destroyed (not sure why), but the Doctor foiled this by pushing everyone into a time storm or something like that and hiding everyone in their own timelines, which might have worked except that they were suddenly being hunted by Weeping Angels who are working for Division to capture the Doctor, for some reason - possibly that they are worried she is going to stop the Flux, even though the main enemies of their Flux plan are the Swarm, who both the Weeping Angels and Division seem pretty unconcerned about. The Angels end up sending all of the Doctor's companions back to an English village floating in the void in order to lure the Doctor there and bring her to Division headquarters, for some reason. Possibly to kill her, possibly for a chat, possibly to give her access to her own memories trapped in a fobwatch, not sure which. But it doesn't work because the Swarm turn up, somehow, and kill the head (I think) of Division, the consequences of which I am unsure about. Meanwhile the Flux has destroyed most of the universe while just roughing up some bits and turning other bits into time soup, which somehow gives Sontarans the opportunity to invade the Earth at every point in its history, which they do, until they're scared off by someone blowing up some of their ships at one point in its history. Unfortunately for Earth, a man called the Grand Serpent has separately decided to infiltrate Earth's past, invent UNIT, and run it for fifty-odd years in order to eventually give Sontarans the opportunity to invade, even though they've already done it several times. All for some reason. Also Bel and Vinder are involved, for some reason.

Is that anywhere close to the mark? I don't think it's a good sign that at this point I am pretty much unclear on why anyone is doing anything.

[Replies From View]

Won't somebody please think of the reasons!!

[mothman]

It's the only way to be sure.