News:

Please let me know of any new bugs or issues in GB, thanks for your patience


least funny python to make shit documentary not worth watching

Started by madhair60, August 23, 2021, 05:01:00 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Cuellar

You can't even say John Cleese is a cunt without getting cancelled these days

Brundle-Fly

I think cancel culture might not always get people cancelled but it is an attitude that is having an effect today and is worth discussing. I'm in.

Kankurette

How many 'cancelled' people really did end up with their careers tanking?

Bernice

Quote from: Brundle-Fly on August 24, 2021, 09:23:10 AM
I think cancel culture might not always get people cancelled but it is an attitude that is having an effect today and is worth discussing. I'm in.
And who better than John Cleese to lead the discussion? Should be even better than the one Jim Davidson did on misogyny on the gay community.

Beagle 2

It's not an unreasonable observation to say that "cancel culture" (for want of a better term) is having an effect on comedy, and if anybody is qualified to take a view on it it's an ex-Python, but when I've heard him talk about this stuff before he's just done a load of really terrible racist jokes to justify how "funny is funny".

He's going into it with his mind already made up we know what conclusions will be reached, but there may be some interesting stuff in there I guess.

sevendaughters

no one has ever been cancelled

some sexpreds have gone to jail for being sexpreds

but no one has had their career stopped because of a joke

cancel culture does not exist and is literally a fascist lie

thanks everyone, huffty will be doing a q&a in the foredeck lounge at 9pm


Barry Admin

As far as I'm concerned, "cancel culture" is really just a mixture of things: mostly the effect of curated internet content and everyone living in filter bubbles now, as well as people having no respect for the internet and doxing themselves on a daily basis.

If it covers all that, okay, but my concern is that this will just really be all about demonising the left/any kind of progressive values.

Brundle-Fly

Quote from: Beagle 2 on August 24, 2021, 10:17:02 AM
It's not an unreasonable observation to say that "cancel culture" (for want of a better term) is having an effect on comedy, and if anybody is qualified to take a view on it it's an ex-Python, but when I've heard him talk about this stuff before he's just done a load of really terrible racist jokes to justify how "funny is funny".

He's going into it with his mind already made up we know what conclusions will be reached, but there may be some interesting stuff in there I guess.

Seems like people have already made their minds up here too. I'll reserve judgement until I see it.

phantom_power

Quote from: dallasman on August 23, 2021, 11:09:47 PM
Aww, you guys are going to make me rich and famous!!!

Ignoring isn't cancelling, snowflake. No-one has a right to be listened to

Barry Admin

Interesting observation from Robin Ince:

Quote"why a new 'woke' generation is trying to rewrite the rules on what can and can't be said". This is the mission statement that worries me about the John Cleese doc. I hope it starts with a scepticism of just how true the culture wars are.

phantom_power

If they mention that cancel culture is a right wing invention to push back against progress and cause in-fighting between various levels of left wing people then it might be worthwhile. If it is just an extended "you can't say x anymore"  with a bit of "it used to be the progressive people who wanted free speech and now it is the other way round" bullshit then it will not

Bad Ambassador

Quote from: Barry Admin on August 24, 2021, 10:25:21 AM
people having no respect for the internet and doxing themselves on a daily basis.

This reminds me of advice Bonnie Langford gave Sophie Aldred on her first day on Doctor Who. The studio is full of microphones, and you never which of them are on or whether or not anyone's listening at the other end. So never say anything in the studio you wouldn't want discussed behind your back. People need to apply the same thinking to the internet.

Autopsy Turvey

Quote from: phantom_power on August 24, 2021, 11:33:31 AM
If they mention that cancel culture is a right wing invention to push back against progress and cause in-fighting between various levels of left wing people then it might be
Excruciatingly disingenuous and cringeworthy partisan gash.

QuoteI hope it starts with a scepticism of just how true the culture wars are.

So is the fashionable leftist line now that conflicting values on cultural themes don't even exist?

Catalogue Trousers

QuoteThe dead ones haven't told a joke in a while. On account of being dead.

'...Neil Innes. Still alive, 2018. Not still alive, 2019.
Terry Jones. 2019, going to parties. No fun anymore, 2020.
Graham Chapman. Chatting away nineteen to the dozen with his mates down the pub every evening, 1988. 1989, nothing.'


Maybe I shouldn't try my hand at gallows humour so often. I've made myself sad now.

jobotic

Quote from: Autopsy Turvey on August 24, 2021, 12:04:47 PM
Excruciatingly disingenuous and cringeworthy partisan gash.


How so? Try not to mention Rik from the Young Ones

KennyMonster

Quote from: Bad Ambassador on August 24, 2021, 11:34:50 AM
This reminds me of advice Bonnie Langford gave Sophie Aldred on her first day on Doctor Who. The studio is full of microphones, and you never which of them are on or whether or not anyone's listening at the other end. So never say anything in the studio you wouldn't want discussed behind your back.

These days you can't even slag off an Dalek without getting thrown in jail.

Bad Ambassador

Quote from: KennyMonster on August 24, 2021, 12:29:01 PM
These days you can't even slag off an Dalek without getting thrown in jail.

Well, they are famously oversensitive. You should see them go berserk when you suggest they see a medical professional.

Autopsy Turvey

Quote from: jobotic on August 24, 2021, 12:21:33 PMHow so?

To be fair, it should definitely be mentioned that many left wing activists like to imagine that 'cancel culture' both does not exist and is a conspiracy to destabilise the left. As long as this is squarely rebutted, then I agree it should be worthwhile.

Cuellar

I think 'many left wing activists' probably think 'cancel culture' doesn't exist (as evidenced by the legions of utterly reprehensible cunts currently running the world), but that the right wing press stokes up phony 'culture war' bollocks, like the council banning Christmas.

sevendaughters

Quote from: Autopsy Turvey on August 24, 2021, 01:12:14 PM
To be fair, it should definitely be mentioned that many left wing activists like to imagine that 'cancel culture' both does not exist and is a conspiracy to destabilise the left. As long as this is squarely rebutted, then I agree it should be worthwhile.

the first acknowledged utilisation of the phrase was literally by a far-right thinker called William Lind who twinned it with the idea of a creeping progressiveness in universities and media institutions, which he named "cultural Marxism". He said ""How does all of this stuff flood in here? How does it flood into our universities, and indeed into our lives today? The members of the Frankfurt School are Marxist, they are also, to a man, Jewish." Lind was also quoted in Breivik's manifesto.

It can quite easily be considered a thing that doesn't exist (ie. there is no evidence of cancellation ruining lives) and a conspiracy to destablise the left (ie. it is being used to grow media empires, target political wins, neutralise the politics of social concern). The problem is you're so determined to play Man Above the Fray you can't see what a twatty neo-reactionary you are.

ProvanFan


Petey Pate

There's already been a documentary of this ilk, called Can We Take A Joke? which I think is on UK Netflix. To save you the bother of watching it, this review is spot on.

https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/can-we-take-a-joke-2016

chveik

any non braindead person know exactly how it's going to pan out.

Old Nehamkin

Many left wing activists like to imagine that the 'Loch Ness Monster' both does not exist and is a conspiracy to sell little hats and tea towels and things to tourists.

Barry Admin

Quote from: Autopsy Turvey on August 24, 2021, 01:12:14 PM
To be fair, it should definitely be mentioned that many left wing activists like to imagine that 'cancel culture' both does not exist and is a conspiracy to destabilise the left. As long as this is squarely rebutted, then I agree it should be worthwhile.


So you're fine with "partisan gash" provided it mocks the left and emboldens the right. Got it.

August 24, 2021, 01:58:11 PM #86 Last Edit: August 24, 2021, 02:09:39 PM by Video Game Fan 2000
I don't see how the position that no one has ever had their lives negatively impacted by social media shaming and ostracisation really helps the left position. It's pretty clear that it happens at least fairly often and its extremely hard for people to recover from an overreaction or false accusation. I can think of several areas where people do not voice certain opinions (nothing explosive out of context) online because they would be lose work and status, and open themselves up for character assassination. How is this not a real thing?

It's hard not see the treatment of Corbyn supporting journalists or feminists who don't like liberal girlboss feminism or the mass dogpiling of critics of Kamala Harris as "cancel culture" in all but name. There have been numerous consequences for people ranging from workplace bullying or losing jobs. Its probably not good to No True Scotsman yourself into a position where rightwingers can get a symbolic win. Deregulated social media sucks. It enables monocultures, bullying and ostracisation on a scale human beings seem neurologically ill-equipped to deal with, that's really the story.

If you read anything anywhere and there is 100% consensus between a large group of people on complex subjects and everyone uses exactly the same vocabulary despite ostensibly coming from different walks of life Run Away

Barry Admin

Quote from: Video Game Fan 2000 on August 24, 2021, 01:58:11 PM
Deregulated social media sucks enables monocultures, bullying and ostracisation on a scale human beings seem neurologically ill-equipped to deal with, that's really the story.

Agree with this, and with your edit at the end.

The issue though is how "cancel culture" is blamed squarely on "leftists" or "the woke" for most of the time.

Quote from: Barry Admin on August 24, 2021, 02:10:16 PM
The issue though is how "cancel culture" is blamed squarely on "leftists" or "the woke" for most of the time.

I agree that this is clearly cultural marxism under a different name, but that's not the same as saying "cancelling" is a thing that never happens to anyone. If we define cancelling as someone losing work or social contacts over spurious accusations or character assassinations online, or character assassination of people that has ulterior political motives, that's clearly something that happens all the damn time.

Its also obvious that there are "woke" monocultures and groupthink at work in many institutions, that rigidly follow the legalistic intersectionality as preached by NGOs, thinktanks, pressure groups, HR deps, and so on. I don't know why anyone would deny this either? Especially as its targets tend to be leftist rather than conservative in the first place. Or just private companies using it to crackdown on speech and action that they don't like.

sevendaughters

Quote from: Video Game Fan 2000 on August 24, 2021, 02:16:53 PM
I agree that this is clearly cultural marxism under a different name, but that's not the same as saying "cancelling" is a thing that never happens to anyone. If we define cancelling as someone losing work or social contacts over spurious accusations or character assassinations online, or character assassination of people that has ulterior political motives, that's clearly something that happens all the damn time.

but this happened prior to the internet being a thing. yes the internet amplifies it massively but i. demonstrably no one moaning about 'cancel culture' is losing out - quite the opposite! - there is a culture of people moving deliberately toward offence ii. this is just an example of publicly-stated belief being the same in principle as a social action: it will put people off. I'm pretty sure a lot of people didn't like Charles Lindbergh in the 30s, even though he didn't actually kill a single Jew. iii. the internet is just the counterweight to the legacy media losing importance.