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Insulate Britain protests

Started by Fambo Number Mive, September 22, 2021, 09:26:18 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

Fambo Number Mive

Insulate Britain, a group that calls for the government to insulate all of Britain's homes to improve energy efficiency, have been blocking parts of the M25 and the A1 to try and get the government to agree to their demands.

According to The Week, Insulate Britain are an off-shoot of Extinction Rebellion.

According to the Insulate Britain website, the nation's 29 million homes are "the oldest and least energy-efficient housing stock in Europe", with almost 15% of the UK's total emissions coming from heating homes.

The UK "needs a nationwide programme to upgrade almost every house", said the activists, but the government "does not have a robust long-term national strategy with a funding mechanism in place to retrofit our homes".

QuoteInsulate Britain has launched a petition (https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/594431/) listing two key demands to be met by Downing Street before the protests stop:

Fully fund and take responsibility for the insulation of all social housing in Britain by 2025.
Produce within four months a legally binding national plan to fund and take responsibility for the full insulation retrofit, with no externalised costs, of all homes in Britain by 2030.

I think it's good Insulate Britain have clear solutions for what can be done to help tackle climate change.

I'm uneasy about them blocking the M25 given it will mainly impact working people and has already caused issues for people heading to medical appointments. I don't know how likely their action it is to make a difference, I do wonder if that depends on how many Tory MPs get caught up in the protest given the government don't care what the people think. However, I don't know how you protest without inconveniencing ordinary people.

The government are seeking a court injunction to stop Insulate Britain from targeting motorways.

Paul Calf

Home insulation activists.

I like that :)

Fambo Number Mive

Court injunction has been granted. According to Grant Shapps "Effective later today, activists will face contempt of court with possible imprisonment if they flout."

It sounds like many of the protestors are prepared to go to prison though.

Norton Canes

They've certainly got lofty ideals

dissolute ocelot

I'm opposed to home insulation because modern homes are all airless and unventilated and fill up with humidity, condensation, and mould. Ventilation is good.

On the other hand, I'm tempted to make some hacky joke about "brought the M25 to a halt? How could anyone tell the difference?"

lipsink

Did anyone see LBC's Nick Ferrari (complete with booger hanging out of his nose) raging, not letting speak and then hanging up on an Insulate Britain protestor for making someone late whose mother probably didn't die but COULD'VE DIED!!!

https://youtu.be/h9QC-X0Bc1s

I've never seen Ferrari so angry when interviewing Tories who are responsible for hundreds of thousand of actual deaths. In fact, he usually chuckles along like they're pals and it's all such a laugh.

It's like nothing winds up LBC cunts more than being stuck in traffic for a bit. The destruction of humanity is nothing in comparison.

SpiderChrist

Nick Ferrari is a fucking cumstain on the trousers of God.

touchingcloth

Quote from: dissolute ocelot on September 22, 2021, 09:51:42 AM
I'm opposed to home insulation because modern homes are all airless and unventilated and fill up with humidity, condensation, and mould. Ventilation is good.

On the other hand, I'm tempted to make some hacky joke about "brought the M25 to a halt? How could anyone tell the difference?"

I agree. I'm all for energy-efficient homes, but I think things need to be built from the ground up to be efficient, warm, and ventilated. I'm definitely against the fad for "improving" older homes by spraying foam in roof and floor voids, as older homes really do need the ventilation.

In short, more, better new homes are what's needed.

Buelligan

I think it's better if they don't possibly endanger the timeliness of ordinary working wimminengurlzez medical appointments (which would otherwise go without a hitch, given the superfine perfect way Britain's transport infrastructure runs and the generous funding and provision of both ambulance services and medical facilities). 

In fact, for making terror like that, I think they should be imprisoned along with all those people who did the cheap cladding and fucked up insulation and the ones that tried to make a quick buck off of gaming the gas industry and the cowboy builders and housing developers and the landlords whose properties are not fit for habitation and all the cunting politicians who allowed this shitshow to happen through their own ambition and self interest.

I wonder, when the poor hardworking cannon-fodder recover, those that do, what sort of homes will they be discharged into?  Or does no one give a shit about that?

Sebastian Cobb

Quote from: touchingcloth on September 22, 2021, 09:58:49 AM
I agree. I'm all for energy-efficient homes, but I think things need to be built from the ground up to be efficient, warm, and ventilated. I'm definitely against the fad for "improving" older homes by spraying foam in roof and floor voids, as older homes really do need the ventilation.

In short, more, better new homes are what's needed.

There's a study up here about bringing passivehaus standards to old style tenements, they seem to think it's doable.
https://housingevidence.ac.uk/carbon-reduction-older-tenements-and-the-retrofit-challenge/

A lot of the damp problems are due to habit - the Germans fix this by Stoßlüften - opening all their windows for a few minutes a day all at once, which replaces about 80% of the air or something. The more modern (Scandinavian) approach is to have an active ventilation system that captures the heat in waste air and pumps it back into the house.


gilbertharding

Quote from: touchingcloth on September 22, 2021, 09:58:49 AM
I agree. I'm all for energy-efficient homes, but I think things need to be built from the ground up to be efficient, warm, and ventilated. I'm definitely against the fad for "improving" older homes by spraying foam in roof and floor voids, as older homes really do need the ventilation.

In short, more, better new homes are what's needed.

Hell of a lot of embodied energy in that.

Retrofit is the answer - but the work involved in doing this probably means the house will be practically uninhabitable for a while... and the assessment/design of these schemes will need to be bespoke to each building.

As an architectural technician, I should be rubbing my hands...


Buelligan

Quote from: Boris Johnson on 20 September 2021On Monday, the PM had said he was "frustrated" that richer countries were failing to financially support poorer ones fighting climate change.

Quote from: The Guardian on 21 September 2021Priti Patel and Grant Shapps are seeking a court injunction to stop environmental protesters from targeting major motorways after five days of tailbacks and damaging headlines for the government.

The home secretary and the transport secretary have asked National Highways and the Government Legal Service to submit an application later this week.

Protesters from the group Insulate Britain have targeted the M25 five times in just over a week. They are calling for government action on home insulation.


https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-58627995
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/21/ministers-plan-legal-action-to-stop-insulate-britain-disrupting-motorways

bgmnts

I think for every single story even related to climate change, whether it's print or television or internet, they should add a disclaimer saying that like 90% of all carbon emissions are caused by a dozen or so companies or whatever the shit ststistic would be.

The Ombudsman

Interesting to note the protesters aren't blocking shipping lanes, or cruises more specifically.


Buelligan

Yeah, utter cunts, aren't they?  They're probably all on the payroll of Big Cruise.  Or maybe, they're thinking there are lots more places where cars and lorries go that you never even see a cruise liner, who knows?

Paul Calf

Quote from: bgmnts on September 22, 2021, 10:47:42 AM
I think for every single story even related to climate change, whether it's print or television or internet, they should add a disclaimer saying that like 90% of all carbon emissions are caused by a dozen or so companies or whatever the shit ststistic would be.

They should also name those companies and list the brands they manage.

Fambo Number Mive

Well the protestors aren't protesting about pollution caused by cars, that's not why they chose the M25.

I do agree that cruise ships are a massive problem and to be honest I'd favour an outright ban on them. We should find alternative employment for cruise ship staff and get rid of the cruise ship industry. However, would this mean more people flying instead?

We need to take drastic action to halt climate change and I'd be in favor of a total overhaul of the tourism industry and nationalising international travel so that people have to apply for permission for a flight, and it is only allowed to visit friends or family. You get one return flight a year. No more jetting off across the world for a holiday.

Easy for me to say as someone with family in this country and very few friends, and as someone who hasn't left England or Wales in ten years.

Agree with Insulate Britain we need to start making sure all homes are insulated as well as explain to people what they can do themselves (e.g. can I lag my loft by myself).

Improving public transport and bringing in congestion charges in every town and city centre (blue badge holders and other disabled people and business vehicles exempt) is also essential. Britain has been run by the car lobby for decades, in rural areas cars are essential but elsewhere let's get people out of cars. Let's build segregated cycle lanes and make our streets safe to walk on.

Pinball

Next up, Faster Broadband For Britain will blockade railway stations.

Kankurette

I thought that bloke's mum did die?

Sebastian Cobb

Quote from: Fambo Number Mive on September 22, 2021, 11:23:41 AM
We need to take drastic action to halt climate change and I'd be in favor of a total overhaul of the tourism industry and nationalising international travel so that people have to apply for permission for a flight, and it is only allowed to visit friends or family. You get one return flight a year. No more jetting off across the world for a holiday.



Given air travel only makes up 2.8% of global co2 do you not think fundamentally restricting people's travel to the point they may not be able to flee the country may be a little disproportionate?

With this in mind do you think regulation of systems (businesses) rather than absolute rules on individual liberties might be less oppressive while yielding much better results?

This does not mean expansion of aviation should be allowed, that should be opposed.

Buelligan

Quote from: Pinball on September 22, 2021, 11:30:35 AM
Next up, Faster Broadband For Britain will blockade railway stations.

What do you think they should do? 

Fambo Number Mive

Quote from: Sebastian Cobb on September 22, 2021, 11:54:46 AM


Given air travel only makes up 2.8% of global co2 do you not think fundamentally restricting people's travel to the point they may not be able to flee the country may be a little disproportionate?

With this in mind do you think regulation of systems (businesses) rather than absolute rules on individual liberties might be less oppressive while yielding much better results?

We should do both. People could still apply for permission to leave and enter the country if they wanted to emigrate, just not for holidays. I agree we should increase business regulation but not sure if it will be enough.

Sebastian Cobb

Quote from: Fambo Number Mive on September 22, 2021, 11:57:42 AM
We should do both. People could still apply for permission to leave and enter the country if they wanted to emigrate, just not for holidays. I agree we should increase business regulation but not sure if it will be enough.

"people can apply to leave"... can you not see problems with letting the state decide who is worthy to leave? All for a relatively minor reduction?

Have you seen historically what goes hand-in-hand with preventing people from leaving countries?

Again, this is about proportion. This is overreaching way more than what a lot of environmental pressure groups propose. The usual one is an exponentially rising tax to make things prohibitive, rather than pure authoritarianism in the hands of the state.

Buelligan

I'm not sure I agree with the tax thought either, this just says that people can buy a licence to kill the world if they're rich enough.  If something's wrong, really seriously wrong, it's wrong and we just need to work hard and think hard about how to sort that.

Authoritarianism and capitalist purchasing of indulgences are both tried and failed.  We need to find a solution that works for everyone and quickly.

Sebastian Cobb

Quote from: Buelligan on September 22, 2021, 12:14:24 PM
Authoritarianism and capitalist purchasing of indulgences are both tried and failed.  We need to find a solution that works for everyone and quickly.

I don't think overreaching rules that don't actually curb that much are either of those things.

Buelligan


GMTV

Quote from: Sebastian Cobb on September 22, 2021, 11:54:46 AM


Given air travel only makes up 2.8% of global co2 do you not think fundamentally restricting people's travel to the point they may not be able to flee the country may be a little disproportionate?

With this in mind do you think regulation of systems (businesses) rather than absolute rules on individual liberties might be less oppressive while yielding much better results?

This does not mean expansion of aviation should be allowed, that should be opposed.

Tam Cook here getting tetchy at the no flying chat again.

2.8% is still a massive number, especially considering its very easily expendable (no more holidays boo hoo), is the preserve of the global rich, and is something that almost everyone given the chance would do more of.

Sebastian Cobb

It's not just holidays. It's just wildly disproportionate, hard to administer and all for small gains.

Would you like to miss seeing your dying relative because the government department that stops people from leaving the country was too slow and didn't approve the exception in time?


Buelligan

No but I wouldn't like to miss seeing my dying relative because I was too poor to pay the tax on the flight (or too poor to travel or have a passport or I didn't have the right vaccine status or whatevs). 

Similarly, I'd be pretty upset if all (or some) of my relatives and friends were dying because no one could accept that things need to change, radically.

Sebastian Cobb

Quote from: Buelligan on September 22, 2021, 12:43:44 PM
No but I wouldn't like to miss seeing my dying relative because I was too poor to pay the tax on the flight (or too poor to travel or have a passport or whatevs).

That's why the proposals are generally exponentially rising taxes that give one free. You are right it still is not perfect since people with limitless supplies can do what they like, but it's certainly slightly less regressive and definitely less oppressive than putting who is allowed to leave the country in the hands of a bureaucratic state department.