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RTD back for Doctor Who

Started by Jack Shaftoe, September 24, 2021, 04:17:47 PM

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mjwilson

Quote from: mjwilson on November 25, 2021, 10:03:38 PMReminder of what Russell said a bit ago:


Oh sorry, someone had linked to that above.

Mister Six

November 25, 2021, 10:26:18 PM #451 Last Edit: November 25, 2021, 10:46:08 PM by Mister Six
Quote from: Kelvin on November 25, 2021, 10:19:18 PMI think it's a terrible idea, the show just can't sustain a vast array or worlds, given that the budget is never going to be top tier, even under a different production company. So you'll end up with loads of shows that feel like a pale facimile of the mainline show, only without the freedom and potential of limitless time and space.

A couple of skews, maybe. Perhaps a few 3-4 part standalone stories like Children of Earth. But once you come up against a lack of sci-fi writing talent, a lack of budget, and a lack of a Tardis (or at least what it represents), I think people will quickly realise that the appeal of Doctor Who is in Doctor Who, not the goofy world it inhabits.

Yeah, I think you're right. At the very least, RTD is going to need a proper run-up to develop some suitably adored characters to spin off. He lucked out big time with Barrowman's charisma and Sarah-Jane being the single most iconic Who companion ever, but obviously neither of those are available to spin off, and the last time here was a half-decent collection of side characters was five years ago now, which is literally half a lifetime to the core audience.

Chibnall killing off Gallifrey again probably didn't help in terms of raw materials, either. Unless it gets fixed in the no-doubt horrendously overstuffed Flux finale.

JamesTC

I can see them spinning off The Master with a Loki style thing.

olliebean

Odd couple sitcom starring Dan and Karvanista.

Midas

Seems misguided to try and engineer a Marvel-style "universe" out of one property.

JamesTC

I'd genuinely love a sitcom starring Peter Davison, Colin Baker and Sylvester McCoy as themselves that follows on from The Five-ish Doctors Reboot.

Exposition

I don't much care for having a lot of spinoffs around, but I'll check them out. Though it should indeed be something that comes after turning the whole ship around, which might take a little bit.

purlieu

Given how hit-and-miss the MCU TV series have been - and them being based on a huge history of multi-character comic book stories - the idea of a Doctor Who equivalent seems a bit daft. Big Finish will always be enough for a certain niche of hardcore fans, but in terms of attracting a wider audience, it's going to be hard. For those fans, history is full of K-9 and Company, the Harry and Turlough novels, the Benny NAs, the Faction Paradox stuff, Lethbridge-Stewart books, comics of past Doctors, MA/PDA novels, Telos novellas, Big Finish itself, the numerous video spinoffs, even spinoffs-of-spinoffs like the Erimem books, even Class, and yet it's all either failed or languished in obscurity. Only Torchwood and Sarah Jane Adventures have had any success, both at the peak of the show's popularity, and the former being mostly considered crap by a large amount of Who fans.

Hell, even DC can't manage it properly - both the badly managed DCEU films, and Arrowverse's 'you must watch every episode of this shit series to understand one subplot of this good series' approach - so how a show like Doctor Who could actually manage it on screen is genuinely beyond me. Whatever you think of them, the great things about the novels and audios is that they can entertain fans who want more whilst effectively simultaneously existing in a separate continuity that has no effect on the main public version of the show.

mothman

The analogy to me is Star Wars. Warning: sweeping statement coming up - the franchise does on the whole tend to struggle if it's anything that doesn't involve Skywalkers. Oh, sure, there are exceptions - Mando is pretty decent, Rogue One is good, but they remain pretty "main sequence" adjacent. It's possible things really are changing now and they're finally figuring out how to do a SWEU.

And like SW with its "based around one family" problem, DW is based around one person and it flounders when it isn't. All the DW spin-offs have been like those Ewoks movies and Solo and Clone Wars; nowhere near the same impact as the "main sequence." So far there's no sign of DW's Mandalorian.

OK, tortured half-arsed analogy over! ;-)

McDead

I think if you just make the spinoffs good, it'll probably work. You just take the Big Finish template - past Doctors, the more interesting big ticket monsters and villains - and you do something actually good with it. It won't be daft stuff like The Nyssa Adventures or Tea and Toast with Turlough. But there's definitely an audience out there for more Tenth Doctor, more Eleven, maybe even a Clara and Me thing.

And if he's not planning to finally bring back the Doctors daughter, I'll eat my hat.

Mister Six

Ignoring stuff like CSI and Law & Order, which are mostly just a series of otherwise unconnected spin-offs (and formulaic ones at that), aren't there basically only two successful "cinematic universes" at this point - the Marvel movies and the DC Arrowverse shows?

(The Star Trek shows are also basically all self-contained, and I think it's a bit early to say whether the glut we have at the minute is sustainable, and I'm not sure the Marvel shows will be sustainable either, in the long run.)

Marvel succeeds because, unlike the DCEU, its films are consistently good (not necessarily excellent or even great, though some are, but good). The Arrowverse shows are ropier, but with lower budgets and expectations that's less of an issue, and they scratch a "fun but low maintenance" itch that the denser Golden Age of Television shows don't.

They also have the advantage of up to 80 years of accumulated characters, stories and worlds to draw on, and huge built-in fanbases of people who have grown attached to these characters over the decades and will give the shows a whirl.

Doctor Who hasn't yet managed one 14-episode season of solid episodes (even the best Moffat season had Silurian turds or whiffy Monk farts stinking the place up) and no established beloved characters that aren't played by actors who are far too old for this sort of thing. More importantly, outside of Britain, Who just doesn't have the cultural reach that Marvel and DC enjoy. At best, it's the plucky underdog show that was notable about seven or eight years ago.

If RTD is going to attempt this, he needs to do what the MCU and CW both did, and take it slow. Get the audience engaged with and energised by Who again, and then build outwards, deliberately and with care. Trying to do what DC did with its films or what Disney did with Star Wars and just splurging loads of shite out there without building (hnngh) brand awareness and without care for consistent quality is a recipe for failure.

Strax's porn double series (with tragic consequences)

timbis

I see this as something to be excited about. I've not watched Doctor Who since the second episode of Chibnalls run. I could tell it wasn't for me. Fair play to all that have suffered through it.

Some might be shit, some might be great. There will be some ambition at least.

Jack Shaftoe

As a C-list UK scriptwriter, the possibility of a tonne of Who-based series being developed at once is quite exciting, even if only one or two of them get made, because there are so few opportunities for the likes of me to pitch for SFF shows otherwise.

I got asked to pitch an episode for S8, which was incredibly exciting, but was aware early on I was one of sixteen writers going for four standalone(ish) episodes, then eight writers for two, etc as it got whittled down. It came down to me and a bigger-name writer over the final episode in the end and he got it (not because he was a bigger name I don't think, his idea was just stronger than mine). I still haven't watched more than the first two minutes of it.

So from a (mostly) selfish position, I'm really interested to see where this goes.

Jack Shaftoe

Quote from: GoblinAhFuckScary on November 26, 2021, 03:25:06 AMStrax's porn double series (with tragic consequences)

Which reminds me I accidentally sent an email to the DW production team about a theoretical episode featuring Strax put on trial by the Sontaran High Command with a very slight error so that the heading was 'strap on trial'

I didn't realised until it came back to me and I thought 'lol someone's going to be embarrassed about this' and then I realised it was a reply to my original email and the embarrassed person was definitely going to be me.

Thomas

I wouldn't worry, it was probably automatically forwarded to the Torchwood production team.

Jack Shaftoe

Actually might re-send it, you never know...

Replies From View

Blimey we could have had a Doctor Who episode written by one of our own.


BALLS TO YOU FOR FAILING, YOU IDIOT!!  YOU LET US ALL DOWN!!!



Seriously though if you get to write for a future episode please get the Doctor to say "Replies From View" as nothing but a pure favour that I have never earned.

thr0b

Surely any CaB-related episode would feature a cunt who has gone bananas, unlimited carbonara and a Sontaran sleeping in a racecar bed?

beanheadmcginty

Technically there is already a Doctor Who channel, if you live in mainland Europe.

https://rxtvinfo.com/2021/bbc-rolls-out-european-fast-channels


Jerzy Bondov

OK if Jack gets to write an episode then I'm fine with the spin-offs.

VelourSpirit

Given what RTD said in January about spin-offs and his era happening ten years too soon, I don't see him coming back and not trying to build the Doctor Who empire back up to where it was before. It could only be exciting to me. I've never not liked an RTD show and just recently It's a Sin was some of the best stuff he's done. It's honestly mad how much he and Gardner got done in just six years. It was really magic.

JamesTC

Quote from: Jack Shaftoe on November 26, 2021, 11:28:50 AMActually might re-send it, you never know...

Hold onto your ideas. In a few years time Big Finish will be desperate for 12th Doctor Lost Stories.

Replies From View

Quote from: thr0b on November 26, 2021, 12:09:54 PMSurely any CaB-related episode would feature a cunt who has gone bananas, unlimited carbonara and a Sontaran sleeping in a racecar bed?

Companion wrestling with phimosis in the TARDIS bogs

Jack Shaftoe

I would definitely try and sneak an I BAMLEM DAVROS in there.

Alberon

Could you have Eddie nailing Syd's scrotum to a Judoon, Hans as K-10, Del Boy falling through a four dimensional bar and the Doctor turning to the camera and saying "I bet you're loving this on the Cook'd and Bomb'd forum, aren't you?"

Norton Canes

Quote from: VelourSpirit on November 26, 2021, 12:38:11 PMGiven what RTD said in January about spin-offs and his era happening ten years too soon, I don't see him coming back and not trying to build the Doctor Who empire back up to where it was before. It could only be exciting to me. I've never not liked an RTD show and just recently It's a Sin was some of the best stuff he's done. It's honestly mad how much he and Gardner got done in just six years. It was really magic

Yeah I'm massively looking forward to all this, why not? It'll depend on the calibre of writers he recruits, of course, and let's hope he doesn't spread himself too thin by trying to write too much himself. Also the other creatives - directors, FX teams etc. - will need to bring their game. At least with Sony reportedly set to acquire Bad Wolf they should have the budget to hire the best.

And much as I'd like to see some classic era favourites return, I kind of hope he recasts most of them as I can't see the appeal of endless series featuring geriatric ex-companions.

JamesTC

Quote from: Alberon on November 26, 2021, 01:50:03 PMCould you have Eddie nailing Syd's scrotum to a Judoon, Hans as K-10, Del Boy falling through a four dimensional bar and the Doctor turning to the camera and saying "I bet you're loving this on the Cook'd and Bomb'd forum, aren't you?"

Is the original bar not already four dimensional? The dimension of time acting upon the bar means that Del thought it was closed but now it is open.

Obviously there is an outside force that influences the bar, however that force is also under the influence of time moving forwards.

Alberon

You're right, but I was thinking of a fourth spatial dimension rather than a temporal one. Jack will have to make this bit clear when he sneaks it into his episode. A minute or two of exposition and several diagrams and it will all become obvious.

Ambient Sheep

Quote from: Replies From View on November 25, 2021, 05:32:43 PMI'll skip what I'm not interested in.  I still haven't seen most of Torchwood, TSJA or Class.

Ditto with Torchwood & Class, but you really should try to catch up with TSJA, as it's largely rather good and does have a little bit of tie-in.