Documental (Japanese Comedy Show)

Started by fit bird, October 11, 2021, 10:36:36 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Minami Minegishi

Quote from: amateur on November 24, 2021, 04:50:49 PMFinished season five and really loved it by the end. The props mentioned above were all time classics and I thought the ending was superb

I would say they were almost TOO good. The echo monkey is insanely good, and there is something uniquely funny about the sound of a harmonica.

QuoteSeason six! Yes!

Some adore it, and others don't take to it at all. For me it is the best, and certainly funniest and most tactical, and the third episode is probably my favourite episode ever. Enjoy it and START-O!

ProvanFan

Quote from: Minami Minegishi on November 24, 2021, 09:50:52 AMIt is going to be a while before that gets subbed so I would simply just enjoy the subbed Joshimental episode.

That's exactly what I did last night. Those final few minutes!

Minami Minegishi

Quote from: ProvanFan on November 24, 2021, 05:03:28 PMThat's exactly what I did last night. Those final few minutes!

I watched that again today funnily enough. The Phallic Swan Dress/Russ Abbot mask 'forgive me' section is incredibly good.

Jerzy Bondov

Started season 4 last night. At the start Miyasako says there's something they've agreed not to talk about, naturally I wondered what that was so I looked him up. I guess it's that he had (has?) cancer. I also saw that, since Documental S4, he got sacked by Yoshimoto (the agency for most of these comedians) for going to yakuza parties and getting money from the yakuza.

Anyway this seems like a really good line up.

Jerzy Bondov

Season 4 fucking BANGS. Everyone in there is really funny. Episode 4 is the best I've seen.
Spoiler alert
Fujimoto dancing in a gold leotard to Kurosawa singing gibberish into an echoing mic backed by a dictaphone that makes weird clicking sounds is good enough, but then Nishizawa comes back in with that stupid wig on looking for his fucking Puma wallet, and then the triumphant return of Teddy Bear? That's extremely unfair. Then you've got Miyasako's bonk on, and then Itoda pissing all over the floor. Plus Iio's sumo soup thing. Painfully funny.
[close]

Minami Minegishi

Quote from: Jerzy Bondov on November 28, 2021, 09:36:55 AMSeason 4 fucking BANGS. Everyone in there is really funny. Episode 4 is the best I've seen.
Spoiler alert
Fujimoto dancing in a gold leotard to Kurosawa singing gibberish into an echoing mic backed by a dictaphone that makes weird clicking sounds is good enough, but then Nishizawa comes back in with that stupid wig on looking for his fucking Puma wallet, and then the triumphant return of Teddy Bear? That's extremely unfair. Then you've got Miyasako's bonk on, and then Itoda pissing all over the floor. Plus Iio's sumo soup thing. Painfully funny.
[close]

I never really noticed Nishizawa much the first time around and ganged him in with some of the more passive, useless contestants. But that Puma wallet bit is pretty lethal and brilliant the second time around.

kidney

Yeah the Puma wallet stuff cracks me up. I love the Teddy Bear-chan song too, and sometimes sing it to myself when pottering around the house.

Minami Minegishi

Quote from: kidney on November 28, 2021, 12:01:47 PMYeah the Puma wallet stuff cracks me up. I love the Teddy Bear-chan song too, and sometimes sing it to myself when pottering around the house.

I watched that episode three times in two days, and then when you add in the repeated clips of the song, I must have heard it 12-times in succession and it is firmly embedded in my head. I sing it constantly!

Ja'moke

Quote from: Minami Minegishi on November 28, 2021, 10:13:35 AMI never really noticed Nishizawa much the first time around and ganged him in with some of the more passive, useless contestants. But that Puma wallet bit is pretty lethal and brilliant the second time around.

"It's that kid again."

amateur

Quote from: Ja'moke on November 28, 2021, 12:34:48 PM"It's that kid again."

Sometimes the deadpan reactions are funnier than the gags. Usually they make the gag funnier.

Minami Minegishi

Quote from: amateur on November 29, 2021, 09:34:33 PMSometimes the deadpan reactions are funnier than the gags. Usually they make the gag funnier.

I love the heavy silences after something random or objectively unfunny happens, or even better, a contestant undermines a bit by noting it's not funny "who would laugh at that?" in an attempt to stop themselves from laughing. Goto and Fujimon do this a lot.

It's definitely something that is missing from the various LOL shows - the Australian version in particular is so tightly edited that there is no breathing space for quiet, slow reaction moments.

amateur

Quote from: Minami Minegishi on November 24, 2021, 04:58:34 PMSome adore it, and others don't take to it at all. For me it is the best, and certainly funniest and most tactical, and the third episode is probably my favourite episode ever. Enjoy it and START-O!

Season six DONE and I loved it.

Spoiler alert
The tactics were superb - the blokes didn't know what to do with the women, who were incredible. So much creativity, good bits, great ripostes - they wiped the floor with them. Half of them were hiding out the back! Wonderful stuff.

Much as I love Fujimon, I can see why some people aren't huge fans - I didn't think he was creative at all in this one. Maybe he was overawed?
[close]

A great watch and so delighted to see how it's developing over the different series. Show of the year for me, Clive.

Quote from: madhair60 on October 29, 2021, 11:34:28 AMHad to join in, avatar-wise. If anyone has a better Fujimoto face, hook me up

oh no


Minami Minegishi

If anyone would like an avatar and can't find images online just let me know and I can knock one up :-)
I'm also trying to figure out how to use VLC to clip small parts as gifs but it's a steep learning curve for me.

Quote from: amateur on December 02, 2021, 09:25:52 AMSeason six DONE and I loved it.

Spoiler alert
The tactics were superb - the blokes didn't know what to do with the women, who were incredible. So much creativity, good bits, great ripostes - they wiped the floor with them. Half of them were hiding out the back! Wonderful stuff.
[close]
It's so great the way that the
Spoiler alert
women understand that combining their forces is utterly lethal. The disintegration of Jimmy after he puts his head in the fridge and literally drops to the floor defeated is amazing. They are so talented and seem to avoid the men's tendency towards Manzai comedy (using a boke like Jimmy, or a tsukkomi like Fujiomon or Goto) or monologue Rakugo, going instead for complex 'bits' influenced by kabuki, or those scenes in a brothel. It's so great!
[close]

QuoteMuch as I love Fujimon, I can see why some people aren't huge fans - I didn't think he was creative at all in this one. Maybe he was overawed?[/spoiler]

I think that because Fujimon is a boke (straight man) his bits lack a certain amount of bizarre imagination.
Spoiler alert
The noodle-hair face-mask bit is crap and the women quickly find a way to use it against him. I think Fujimon's powers come from his boke status, by undermining others with little put-downs and quips. His presence always seems to increase the feeling of tension because he is always so close to laughing, and tends to fuck himself up with his own gags.
[close]


amateur

Quote from: Minami Minegishi on December 02, 2021, 11:50:04 AMIt's so great the way that the
Spoiler alert
women understand that combining their forces is utterly lethal. The disintegration of Jimmy after he puts his head in the fridge and literally drops to the floor defeated is amazing. They are so talented and seem to avoid the men's tendency towards Manzai comedy (using a boke like Jimmy, or a tsukkomi like Fujiomon or Goto) or monologue Rakugo, going instead for complex 'bits' influenced by kabuki, or those scenes in a brothel. It's so great!
[close]

Thank you for this analysis - I know nothing about Japanese comedy so your insight and the fansubs are making this a real education. I didn't expect nearly as much wordplay and it's really interesting to see what wordplay is funny and which is :rolls eyes:

QuoteI think that because Fujimon is a boke (straight man) his bits lack a certain amount of bizarre imagination.
Spoiler alert
The noodle-hair face-mask bit is crap and the women quickly find a way to use it against him. I think Fujimon's powers come from his boke status, by undermining others with little put-downs and quips. His presence always seems to increase the feeling of tension because he is always so close to laughing, and tends to fuck himself up with his own gags.
[close]

When he

Spoiler alert
whipped out the guitar and started singing that song, killing himself by singing "blue jeans",
[close]

there was a real sense if he could have just held on for three more seconds he would have taken someone out. But he didn't. He killed himself and it was magnificent.

kidney

Not sure he's been mentioned yet but I absolutely LOVED Shoji in S6; the little quips he comes out with, constantly getting things wrong and playing dumb, and the others (well, mostly Fujimon) mocking his poor timing. One of the stars of that season, for me.

Jerzy Bondov

Season 4 was fucking magic. I really thought Kurosawa was great. I loved how she was constantly wearing a gormless expression; she obviously worked out she could stifle her laughs that way early on. Hitting Kuro-chan in the bare cock with a foam sword was a highlight. In fact she nearly broke him right near the end when she was grilling him about his sex lube.

Swoz_MK

Kuro and Yurien Retriever have been on major health kicks, Yurien especially and is almost unrecognizable.


amateur

Good for them, imo!

One thing I've wondered on the fansubs - the translations "interesting" and "scary" come up a lot. Do we reckon those are literal translations? It's a direct way of expressing your opinion, which I find very endearing, but wonder how accurate it is.

The "nani?" and "eh?" moments, shortly followed by Matsumoto laughing, live rent free in my head AS THE YOUNG PEOPLE SAY

Ja'moke

Quote from: Minami Minegishi on December 02, 2021, 11:50:04 AMIf anyone would like an avatar and can't find images online just let me know and I can knock one up :-)
I'm also trying to figure out how to use VLC to clip small parts as gifs but it's a steep learning curve for me.

I can make GIFS if there is anything in particular you are looking for. Just let me know.

Jerzy Bondov

Joshimental is great, although I definitely prefer the slower pace of normal Documental. The right person won, but I really liked Uika, she went right into the Fujimoto role of keeping things moving with little comments and quips, and had a similarly funny 'trying not to laugh' face.

Minami Minegishi

Quote from: amateur on December 02, 2021, 12:55:18 PMThank you for this analysis - I know nothing about Japanese comedy so your insight and the fansubs are making this a real education. I didn't expect nearly as much wordplay and it's really interesting to see what wordplay is funny and which is :rolls eyes:

Although I have been watching Downtown and the No-laughing Batsus/Silent Library for a few years now, much of the specificity of Japanese comedy is not as discussed. Documental is always self-analysing and referencing so you end up learning tons of stuff. Also, if the bizarre history of Yoshimoto is interesting to you, large parts of the semi-fictionalised series of Jimmy's life on Netflix is a real eye-opener. Yes, that series exists, and yes Jimmy introduces it in an especially chaotic way.

QuoteWhen he

Spoiler alert
whipped out the guitar and started singing that song, killing himself by singing "blue jeans",
[close]

there was a real sense if he could have just held on for three more seconds he would have taken someone out. But he didn't. He killed himself and it was magnificent.

'Hoisted by your own petard' is something I pretentiously utter quite often watching this. Especially Fujimon, and that bit with the guitar is a classic example.

Quote from: kidney on December 02, 2021, 03:03:40 PMNot sure he's been mentioned yet but I absolutely LOVED Shoji in S6; the little quips he comes out with, constantly getting things wrong and playing dumb, and the others (well, mostly Fujimon) mocking his poor timing. One of the stars of that season, for me.

I agree, he brought so many laughs, but especially the way Fujimon totally bokes on him. His age and seniority gives that series a really interesting edge, especially when someone like Yurian is in there not covering herself adequately.

Quote from: Jerzy Bondov on December 02, 2021, 03:56:25 PMSeason 4 was fucking magic. I really thought Kurosawa was great. I loved how she was constantly wearing a gormless expression; she obviously worked out she could stifle her laughs that way early on. Hitting Kuro-chan in the bare cock with a foam sword was a highlight. In fact she nearly broke him right near the end when she was grilling him about his sex lube.

Yeah that gormless/shocked look on her puss for most of it was totally a way to try and not laugh. She is responsible for one of the best moments on the show, and so she is right up there for me.

Quote from: amateur on December 02, 2021, 06:25:21 PMOne thing I've wondered on the fansubs - the translations "interesting" and "scary" come up a lot. Do we reckon those are literal translations? It's a direct way of expressing your opinion, which I find very endearing, but wonder how accurate it is.

A lot of terms do seem to get re-used. The word 'kowai' comes up a lot and does seem to get translated by Amazon, plus the other subbers like Thanos, as 'scary'. Looking online it does mean this, but can also mean 'surprising' and 'unsettling'. So we might say 'that's disturbing' calmly and unemotionally in a bid to undermine the other contestant, and I suspect they are doing the same.

Quote from: Ja'moke on December 02, 2021, 06:57:58 PMI can make GIFS if there is anything in particular you are looking for. Just let me know.

Ah thanks - I really want to learn it myself as there are so many little moments I would like to grab on a rewatch. Do you use VLC or a proper video editing soft5ware suite?

Quote from: Jerzy Bondov on December 02, 2021, 10:03:17 PMJoshimental is great, although I definitely prefer the slower pace of normal Documental. The right person won, but I really liked Uika, she went right into the Fujimoto role of keeping things moving with little comments and quips, and had a similarly funny 'trying not to laugh' face.

I agree, she is a really interesting presence and manages to wear them away slowly. It is more frenetic, and is edited that way, but like Ikemantal is does bring about an even more insane ending as they just aren't quite a knackered. I think the latter stages of Documental is affected by fatigue where you feel they simply won't laugh at anything after close to 6-hours.

Ja'moke

Quote from: Minami Minegishi on December 04, 2021, 12:07:10 PMAh thanks - I really want to learn it myself as there are so many little moments I would like to grab on a rewatch. Do you use VLC or a proper video editing soft5ware suite?

I use a free software called HandBrake to cut out the exact part I want (it lets you put in timestamps) and then just use giphy.com to turn it into a GIF.

Minami Minegishi

Quote from: Ja'moke on December 04, 2021, 02:31:12 PMI use a free software called HandBrake to cut out the exact part I want (it lets you put in timestamps) and then just use giphy.com to turn it into a GIF.

Hey thanks - I'm on it with Handbrake so cheers.

Minami Minegishi

S08E03 episode is up this morning. Thanos is holding off posting the link to Reddit for a week as a thank you to patrons so let me know in PM if you would like the link.

Swoz_MK

Nice! Have resisted watching eps 1&2 until I have them all. How many eps in S8?

Minami Minegishi

Quote from: Swoz_MK on Yesterday at 09:26:21 AMNice! Have resisted watching eps 1&2 until I have them all. How many eps in S8?

Five altogether - Thanos has said that the 4th episode is coming around the 18/19 December, so I would expect the final episode a couple of weeks later at the start of the new year. Although it might be later for obvious reasons.

After that, many of us are imploring Thanos to do the Documentary of Documental 2 before he does season 9, so that we can see the banned season 8 scenes with subs. I really want everyone to see the footage because it is soooooo good.

Season 9 should then be done by the middle/end of February so Thanos can move on to Joshimental 2, Ikemental 1 and then the imminent season 10 champion of champions!

Swoz_MK

What an excellent few months we have coming up!