Tip jar

If you like CaB and wish to support it, you can use PayPal or KoFi. Thank you, and I hope you continue to enjoy the site - Neil.

Buy Me a Coffee at ko-fi.com

Support CaB

Recent

Welcome to Cook'd and Bomb'd. Please login or sign up.

March 28, 2024, 09:07:24 PM

Login with username, password and session length

Alec Baldwin kills crew member, wounds another.

Started by Mobius, October 22, 2021, 05:18:00 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

phantom_power

Quote from: Keebleman on October 22, 2021, 10:33:31 AM
These days the director usually sits at a bank of monitors, and the DoP rarely operates the cameras.  So it's appropriate to remain in 'Just one more thing' mode for now.

It was a pretty low budget shoot so they may not have had monitors like that

phantom_power

Quote from: H-O-W-L on October 22, 2021, 10:42:35 AM
My theory right now is that the explosive charges used to emulate a muzzle flash inside the blank created an overpressure scenario which basically blunderbussed shrapnel out of the barrel, or flung the barrel bung out of the gun, alá Brandon Lee. We won't know for sure until we find out more -- more than a couple things could've gone wrong really. I really doubt it was a case of a blank gun being fitted with live ammo, but you never know.

It could also be that they filmed loading an empty or fake shell into the gun for the scene, or even a different scene, and it hadn't been taken out but that seems too negligent to be likely

H-O-W-L

Quote from: phantom_power on October 22, 2021, 10:47:37 AM
It could also be that they filmed loading an empty or fake shell into the gun for the scene, or even a different scene, and it hadn't been taken out but that seems too negligent to be likely

Well that's sort of what happened with Brandon Lee; a dummy slug got thrown into the barrel and lodged there, then when a real blank was fired it came out of the gun and hit him, iirc.

dissolute ocelot

Quote from: phantom_power on October 22, 2021, 10:46:22 AM
It was a pretty low budget shoot so they may not have had monitors like that
Some DPs (and directors) like to spend a lot of time actually with the camera rather than watching it on a monitor from faraway at the other side of the set; some DPs act as their own camera operator, particularly shooting with a lightweight camera on a low-budget shoot. So yeah, we don't know what happened but it's not surprising if they were doing a close-up with the camera near the gun and it accidentally discharged.

Replies From View

Quote from: H-O-W-L on October 22, 2021, 08:05:57 AM
This is a gross misunderstanding of how prop gun safety has evolved since the Brandon Lee incident. Even before then the age of using real guns with blank loads was pretty much dead but after that prop gun houses started welding rods into barrels and straight up plugging off feed ramps and the like so you could never load or fire a real projectile from the gun. Even back in the eighties, they shot Miami Vice with a couple guns that were unsuitable for chambering live rounds but worked fine with blanks. Somebody fucked up very severely, here; this is a chain of negligence event.

I keep picturing Brandon Routh, because he played Christopher Reeve in a Superman tribute film, and Reeve and Lee have sufficient assonance for me to confuse them.


RIP Stewart Routh, like a bird's prop gun

greenman

As said directors and DOP's being not close to the camera is probably more true for large scale productions and this sounds like it was a good deal smaller and possible on location.

I'm guessing perhaps could have been using some specialist period looking prop gun that hadnt been rigged to make it un fireable.

pigamus

Quote from: H-O-W-L on October 22, 2021, 08:05:57 AM
This is a gross misunderstanding of how prop gun safety has evolved since the Brandon Lee incident.

It does seem rather good now yes

Poor Alec, he's always tired after a long days shooting.
Imagine having to pick him out of the line up with his 50 brothers. Nightmare!

nugget

What a weird and tragic thing to happen. I guess one possibility is that he was just arsing around between takes and shot them with a gun that was supposed to have been made safe.

I did peak at Twitter earlier and, fuck me, those people are truly fucked in the head.

bgmnts

Regardless of whatever advancements or changes they've made, can't they just have a gun and put sound effects and visual effects in post production or editing?

Aye. A lump of fucking plastic brushed with metallic paint. Absolutely no need to have authentic guns anywhere near a set.

chveik


idunnosomename

Quote from: bgmnts on October 22, 2021, 12:41:12 PM
Regardless of whatever advancements or changes they've made, can't they just have a gun and put sound effects and visual effects in post production or editing?
no. totally impossible. gotta use real guns.

peanutbutter

Quote from: bgmnts on October 22, 2021, 12:41:12 PM
Regardless of whatever advancements or changes they've made, can't they just have a gun and put sound effects and visual effects in post production or editing?
I think it's partially because of the prevalence of post-production stuff that's keeping live arms going, you're able to get something way more effective on account of everyone being intuitively able to detect the CGI stuff on some level (more the real shots feeling more real than the CGI feeling false).

In the case of extreme close ups the general assumption would be that it's gonna look kinda shite on CGI anyway (the actors' responses and all that) to the point that it'd need to be done from a distance. There should be enough safety checks to ensure it is 100% safe beforehand obvs. The western setting makes the gun sound like the obvious wildcard here.




Not knowing anything about guns the whole scenario does sound like a combo of an extreme close up shot, both the DP and director being right beside Baldwin, and some kind of weird shrapnel explosion from some not totally safe replica of a quirky old western gun

Butchers Blind

Hopefully this will lead to all depictions of guns in films being banned. Instead they'll just have to hold up a sign saying GUN followed by another reading BANG.

Replies From View

Quote from: idunnosomename on October 22, 2021, 12:55:16 PM
no. totally impossible. gotta use real guns.

why not do spud guns like we all had as kids.  after a few years cinema audiences will just forget what real guns look like and lo and behold disbelief suspended

idunnosomename

Kinda disgusting how theyre making this about Alec fucking Baldwin and how sad he must feel

QuoteHalyna Hutchins is a Los Angeles based union cinematographer who graduated from the AFI conservatory in 2015 and has since established a track record of successful narrative features . Halyna was selected as one of American Cinematographer's Rising Stars of 2019 as well as a cinematographer for the 21st Century Fox DP Lab in 2018.

Her work on Adam Egypt Mortimer's art house superhero action film Archenemy, starring Joe Manganiello, premiered at Beyond Fest 2020 and was in official competition at the Sitges International Film Festival, receiving a nomination for Best Motion Picture.

Originally from Ukraine, Halyna grew up on a Soviet military base in the Arctic Circle surrounded by reindeer and nuclear submarines. She holds a graduate degree in International Journalism from Kyiv National University in Ukraine and previously worked as an investigative journalist with British documentary productions in Europe.

Halyna's recent work also includes Blindfire, racially charged cop drama written and directed by Mike Nell starring Brian Geraghty (The Hurt Locker, TNT's The Alienist) and Sharon Leal (Supergirl, Instinct),winner of Best Crime Drama at the Houston International Film Festival, 2020.


Darlin', a horror feature lensed by Hutchins and directed by Pollyanna McIntosh (The Walking Dead), has premiered at the SXSW film festival 2019 with limited theatrical release in the US while playing internationally at the Edinburgh Film Festival, Fantasia, London FrightFest, BiFan, Sitges, Galway Film Fleadh (Best International Film nomination), Fangoria Chainsaw Awards (Best First Feature nomination).

mothman


Replies From View

Quote from: Butchers Blind on October 22, 2021, 01:09:04 PM
Hopefully this will lead to all depictions of guns in films being banned. Instead they'll just have to hold up a sign saying GUN followed by another reading BANG.

Paging Ben Garrison

Blumf

Quote from: Butchers Blind on October 22, 2021, 01:09:04 PM
Hopefully this will lead to all depictions of guns in films being banned. Instead they'll just have to hold up a sign saying GUN followed by another reading BANG.

I would say walkie-talkies, but this was a western period piece, so... a telegraph key?

QDRPHNC

Absolutely horrible for all involved. A poster on Reddit seems pretty certain that it was a shot with the gun being pointed directly at the camera and the Director and DP we both right there.

studpuppet

Quote from: ImmaculateClump on October 22, 2021, 12:43:01 PM
Aye. A lump of fucking plastic brushed with metallic paint. Absolutely no need to have authentic guns anywhere near a set.



Keebleman

Quote from: bgmnts on October 22, 2021, 02:21:15 PM
Anyway the film sounds fun.

We're all going to want to see it now.  Packed cinemas full of people whispering, "Ah, I think that was the bit."

BritishHobo

Quote from: up_the_hampipe on October 22, 2021, 09:48:14 AM
This is horrifying. It's giving me anxiety just imagining being in Alec Baldwin's position right now.

Same. It's a weirdly specific fear I have, the fear of accidentally causing some horrible tragedy like this while just going about a normal job, or driving, or whatever. Just a lifetime of guilt because of five seconds.

Feel for the family, what a horrible and senseless thing to happen.

jamiefairlie

"Guns don't kill people, Alec Baldwin does!"

Charlton Heston, 1986

dissolute ocelot

The Guardian's coverage seems to be assuming Baldwin was actually shooting at multiple people on the set, rather than any possibility a gun exploded or misfired. Saying "Alec Baldwin kills woman" may be one way of looking at it, but if the cinematographer was killed by a negligently-installed light falling on her, I doubt the same language would be used no matter how negligent safety standards were. Also Catherine Shoard doesn't know the difference between someone being electrified and being electrocuted.

Mister Six

Quote from: Keebleman on October 22, 2021, 10:33:31 AM
These days the director usually sits at a bank of monitors, and the DoP rarely operates the cameras.  So it's appropriate to remain in 'Just one more thing' mode for now.

It was a low-budget shoot, I think, so maybe not?

EDIT: Shit, phantom_power already said it.

lb99

Monitors aren't expensive and are often thrown in by the camera hire place as part of the kit hire. I've directed sketches on a minuscule budget for the internet and we had a proper monitor villages.