8 people dead at Astroworld festival

[Kankurette]

Looks like they've got a mini-Hillsborough on their hands.

Basically, Travis Scott was encouraging people to sneak in and jump the fences, a massive crush happened during his set when people rushed the stage, he continued while a girl's body was being carried away and ignored the crowd shouting at him to stop, and some idiots were dancing on ambulances trying to get through the crowd. One of the people who died was only 14. The festival was way over capacity and they didn't have the staff numbers to deal with it.

I don't mind admitting that I always hated it when bands did shit like this at festivals, like when Lostprophets encouraged the crowd to part and then run into each other at Reading, and I was working for Oxfam at the time and we had to keep taking people to the medical tent because so many of them got injured during that set. On a personal note, I have a phobia of crowds stemming from when I was in the pit at a Rammstein gig and during American Head Charge's set, I nearly got asphyxiated - i'm not exaggerating - and I had to beg one of my mates to get me out of the crowd because I genuinely thought I was going to die. He took me to the back of the Apollo and got me a drink and made sure I was OK, but fucking hell, it was not fun.

Scott is a fucking idiot, frankly. He should not have carried on once it became clear people were ACTUALLY DYING.

[Gregory Torso]

I saw this earlier on Reddit. No idea who Travis Scott is, some knob standing on a bit of scaffolding warbling away auto tune fucking shit, but him carrying on with his fucking twat nonsense whilst bodies were being pulled out of the crowd was fucked up and stupid beyond belief.

[Fambo Number Mive]

Let's hope Scott faces the consequences his dangerous idiocy deserves. Looks like this isn't the first time he's encouraged fans to do dangerous things as well, its been reported he pled guilty to reckless endangerment in 2015 after he encouraged fans to climb security barricades. Perhaps there should be some kind of legislation in place to prevent people who encourage fans to do dangerous things during concerts being able to be the centre of massive events.

It appears that Scott runs this festival and the second night of the festival has been deffered to 2022. Is it realistic to say that Scott should not be allowed to be involved in any festival or other large even for at least a decade given his history?

[Kankurette]

Scott has form for doing this as well. He encouraged a guy to jump from a balcony at one gig, assuming the fans would catch him, and the guy ended up paralysed.

Also, the first time I saw the Deftones, someone fell down in the pit and Chino stopped the gig until he was sure the fan was OK. Not the first time he's done it, either. Dave Grohl also talked about moshpit etiquette during the Foo Fighters' set at Leeds 2002. Someone goes down, you pick them up. If metal and rock bands can make sure crowds are OK, Scott has no excuse. I get musicians can't always see what's going on in the crowd when they're onstage but if a dead body is being carried past you, surely that's a sign that you should stop the gig? Ariana Grande didn't keep singing when people got blown to bits at her gig. Not that she could have, poor thing.

On the subject of Hillsborough comparisons, cops are claiming one of them got stabbed in the neck with a drug syringe. Not sure if true though. It may be them trying to cover their arses.

[ArtParrott]

The Hillsborough comparison is apt seeing as the news and authorities seem very focused on an apparent mystery individual who was going around pricking people with doses of fentenyl, which sounds like total bollocks to me.

In truth though it seems that for 40 minutes after an emergency was declared he carried on with and finished his whole set. It seems bizarre to me (and many others) that you wouldn't at least check in with what was happening when ambulances and people are being pulled out of the crowd. I've not wanted to watch any of the videos, but surely it must be pretty easy for a professional performer to tell the difference between a raucous, buzzed crowd and one where people are actually in serious trouble.

Fake edit: wat Kankurette said.

[The Mollusk]

Jesus fucking Christ. When I went to Day For Night festival in Texas, Travis Scott was playing after Butthole Surfers, who I was watching. TS fans heavily rushed in to that crowd about 15 mins before the end of the Buttholes set and at one point the surge from behind us was so intense I was leaning forward at like a 20-30 degree angle. It was really scary. My friend was tripping off his gourd and he had a really horrible time. I'm claustrophobic as fuck but I've almost never felt scared in a gig crowd because I go to shows where people respect one another when someone's visibly in danger, but that occasion felt properly unsafe. What a stupid fucking cunt Scott is. Hope he faces criminal charges for this.

[Kankurette]

I'm reading a thread about it elsewhere and someone brought up Roskilde 2000, when 9 people were killed during a Pearl Jam set. I'd completely forgotten about that. In fairness, I don't think it was Pearl Jam's fault, it was more to do with the weather and the ground being very muddy and slippy.

Scott is a prick. It's all very well him apologising but the idiot exacerbated the situation in the first place, he knew what he was doing.

[chveik]

fucking hell what a cunt

[DJ Bob Hoskins]

I've been avoiding reading the details of this tragedy until now because it's so nightmarish. Jesus Fuck it's harrowing stuff.
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/11/07/us/astroworld-festival-what-happened/index.html

Lostprophets encouraged the crowd to part and then run into each other at Reading, and I was working for Oxfam at the time and we had to keep taking people to the medical tent because so many of them got injured during that set.

It sounds like their frontman is a real jerk.

[Rev+]

As much of a dickhead as this guy is, there's a bigger failing if it's an event of this scale.  Why was he not bundled off the stage?  I've been in crushes at indoor events before and it's both terrifying and disorienting - the realisation that there's nowhere to go - but the only time I've seen something like this was when the Manics were headlining Glastonbury in 99(?).  Someone ran out on stage and told them what was going on, they immediately dropped their instruments and fucked right off for about a quarter of an hour as the crowd were told to move back or it'd be abandoned.

[idunnosomename]

what's this about people being injected with drugs at this festival? I guess it's unfolding, but seems way more sus than the Pearl Jam Roskilde incident in 2000, which was a terrible accident, but nothing criminal. unlike this

I don't mind admitting that I always hated it when bands did shit like this at festivals, like when Lostprophets encouraged the crowd to part and then run into each other at Reading, and I was working for Oxfam at the time and we had to keep taking people to the medical tent because so many of them got injured during that set.

this is called a "wall of death" and is pretty standard in metal via hardcore. I was in one on Friday during Orange Goblin and actually, the actual impact with the other side is nothing, it's just the people behind you that make you inevitably fall arse over tit. Some guy really hurt his knee and had to be helped out by security. I mean I don't mind a few cuts and bruises at a show, but maybe these are a bit stupid. still, I am an idiot so will inevitably participate.

edit: should say bands generally only do one wall of death a set. if they were doing multiple ones, then well, real jerk behaviour

[thelittlemango]

As much of a dickhead as this guy is, there's a bigger failing if it's an event of this scale.  Why was he not bundled off the stage?  I've been in crushes at indoor events before and it's both terrifying and disorienting - the realisation that there's nowhere to go - but the only time I've seen something like this was when the Manics were headlining Glastonbury in 99(?).  Someone ran out on stage and told them what was going on, they immediately dropped their instruments and fucked right off for about a quarter of an hour as the crowd were told to move back or it'd be abandoned.

Yeah, reading the article Bob Hoskin shared above it says Scott stopped the show 3-4 times to calm things down ashe noticed the crowd wasn't right. They also quote a music journalist who was there and saw an emergency vehicle go into the crowd but didn't think much of it as you often get people passing out at festivals, which could explain why others carried on and didn't take it as seriously as they should have.

Scott has history but in this case it sounds like it wasn't based on him encouraging people and the crush was happening before he even appeared on stage.

[Kankurette]

As much of a dickhead as this guy is, there's a bigger failing if it's an event of this scale.  Why was he not bundled off the stage?  I've been in crushes at indoor events before and it's both terrifying and disorienting - the realisation that there's nowhere to go - but the only time I've seen something like this was when the Manics were headlining Glastonbury in 99(?).  Someone ran out on stage and told them what was going on, they immediately dropped their instruments and fucked right off for about a quarter of an hour as the crowd were told to move back or it'd be abandoned.

It does sound like a crowd control problem. People were coming in without tickets and they didn't have the staff to deal with it.

Bob, this was way before everyone found out Watkins was a paed, though i thought he was a cunt way before that with his dumb faux-American accent. You're from Pontypridd, twerp.

[Uncle TechTip]

There were people dancing on top of the ambulance, not great even if it was just one person in trouble.

One video was quite harrowing, Scott at the top of a pole like that old woman on The Day Today, singing on the autotune and gazing down at a bunch of medics doing CPR on a lifeless fan.

People were chanting stop the show but on it went.

[JaDanketies]

Rammstein and American Head Charge at the Apollo? Was it the Manchester Apollo? I was there, man! Still got the hoodie!

Listening to Travi$ Scott now and he's pretty wank tbf, and I have tolerance of trap / mumble rap shit. He's getting a lot of flack and it might be well-deserved. It seems like he's treated crowd safety with contempt for a long time, which kinda makes something like this inevitable. But it looks like there were plenty of failings from a lot of people.

I've seen enough horrible videos to be hyper-aware of the risk of crushes and stampedes at large events, or at least I think I am, but sometimes you find yourself in situations that could turn hairy, especially when exiting venues. No mumble-rap is worth the life of >8 kids.

Also you'd expect this music to be harder.

I don't have any issues with Wall-of-Deaths. I've never felt crushed by them or pressured to join them, or seen anyone trampled underfoot in one. Dan Deacon did a Wall of Love at his gig, where everyone high-fived everyone else.

I once saw someone lose their glasses during a Prostitute Disfigurement gig and everyone stop pitting and flashing their phone lights on the floor to find them.  But I don't like all the back-slapping that metalheads and other associated moshers are doing at the moment. Your moshpits are not necessarily 100% lovely places where everyone has the best etiquette.  Maybe the silver lining is that we'll see more policing. I've seen some behaviour at metal moshpits that deserves getting the shit kicked out of you; people who aren't even in the pit shoving others into the pit without their consent (quite often big guys shoving in small women) is particularly egregious.

[The Mollusk]

Still find it weird that people are like "this guy's music sucks!" when the artist is outed as having done something bad. If his music was great would that change your view of this or the outcome in any way, or is it just that people are desperate to crowbar themselves into any narrative as if their opinion bears any sort of significance to the tragic deaths of 8 people?

[JaDanketies]

People are just talking about the different aspects of the news story. I don't get what bit you're supposed to mosh at. Maybe the whole moshpit angle is a red-herring. Seems like crowd-surges were happening - I read initially that everyone was expecting Travis to appear on one stage and he appeared on another stage so everyone ran to the other stage, but I have also heard that he's famous for very heavy moshpits.

[Beagle 2]

It does seem like, as it was his gig, nobody had the confidence or felt they had the legitimacy to pull the plug. It's probably not provable one way or another whether he knew that something was seriously wrong (it's hard to believe that he didn't, based on some of the videos), but the complete failure in communication and protocol is indisputable.

I was in a massive crush at Hogmanay a few years ago, worse than any gig or festival I've been at. It was awful being packed that tightly and just carried along by the crowd, totally helpless and struggling to breathe. When we finally did get carried to the nearest fence where everyone was trying to get to, the dozy security around the perimeter were trying to stop people getting out. It didn't last too long as the force of the crowd smashed down the fence and spilled out, and at that stage they did seem to understand what was happening, but it was very frightening and a demonstration of how clueless people in charge of crowd safety can be about what's happening 30 cm away when they're in drunk crowd control mode rather than having clear instructions of what to do in the event of a crush.

I was really fucked off about that, I sent some angry emails afterwards and found out that they ticketed Hogmanay inside a fenced off area, but had no limit on the amount of tickets that were sold. Incredible.

[Kankurette]

I stay the fuck away from moshpits for this very reason. I'm a short woman and I have fibromyalgia AND crowd phobia to boot. I can't enjoy a gig if I'm being beaten up. When I went to watch the Wu-Tang Clan with my brother and his mates a while back, I had to stand behind them because I knew I wouldn't be able to hack the pit. And plenty of women get groped in pits as well, or crowdsurfing. It's not happened to me, thank fuck. People are more likely to just shove me out the way.

Still find it weird that people are like "this guy's music sucks!" when the artist is outed as having done something bad. If his music was great would that change your view of this or the outcome in any way, or is it just that people are desperate to crowbar themselves into any narrative as if their opinion bears any sort of significance to the tragic deaths of 8 people?

I couldn't even name any of his songs and have no idea whether he's good or bad, but if, say, Space did this, I would be equally disgusted. Whether I like the band or not is irrelevant.

(JaDanketies, it was indeed that gig and I was the only one in my group who enjoyed Raging Speedhorn. Rammstein were fun but alas, we missed a bit of the gig because we had to get the train back to Chester.)

ETA: you'd think in the UK, people would be a lot better trained on handling crushes after Hillsborough. Wasn't there a festival in Liverpool city centre a couple of years ago that could have easily turned nasty because of bottlenecks and poor crush control? I can't remember the name of it, it wasn't Matthew Street, but I do remember that Space were due to play and pulled out, and the whole thing sounded like a trainwreck.

[Ja'moke]

People are just talking about the different aspects of the news story. I don't get what bit you're supposed to mosh at. Maybe the whole moshpit angle is a red-herring. Seems like crowd-surges were happening - I read initially that everyone was expecting Travis to appear on one stage and he appeared on another stage so everyone ran to the other stage, but I have also heard that he's famous for very heavy moshpits.

He is. I saw Travis Scott live years ago, before he was as big as he is now, and that had some pretty hefty mosh pits. (at hip hop concerts, people tend to mosh at the beat drops, when the heavy bass kicks in).

Apparently with this recent concert, security did a terrible job, and loads of people that shouldn't have been there climbed the barricades.

[Petey Pate]

The Hillsborough comparison is apt seeing as the news and authorities seem very focused on an apparent mystery individual who was going around pricking people with doses of fentenyl, which sounds like total bollocks to me.

[jobotic]

Never been in a crush like that myself and only moshed to small bands in small venues. This article about the Ibrox Disaster stuck with me since I read it.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2020/dec/03/rangers-football-forgotten-tragedy-ibrox-stadium-disaster-glasgow

It was almost an hour after Stein scored before he or his teammates knew that anyone had died. The Celtic end didn't know. Most of the Rangers end didn't know. Even the press didn't know. I lurched down the stairs and into The Stadium bar across the street looking for an impossible taxi. It was a hive of celebration. I told one man what had happened and watched him shake his head in disbelief: "Get yourself another drink, son."

[H-O-W-L]

It sounds to me like a logistical and security failure most of all.

[The Mollusk]

I couldn't even name any of his songs and have no idea whether he's good or bad, but if, say, Space did this, I would be equally disgusted. Whether I like the band or not is irrelevant.

It wasn't aimed at you! :)

People are just talking about the different aspects of the news story.

lol, sure

Listening to Travi$ Scott now and he's pretty wank tbf, and I have tolerance of trap / mumble rap shit. He's getting a lot of flack and it might be well-deserved.

[JaDanketies]

The well-deserved flack was referring to the next sentence, about him treating crowd safety with contempt.

He's getting a lot of flack and it might be well-deserved. It seems like he's treated crowd safety with contempt for a long time, which kinda makes something like this inevitable.

I don't think you deserve flack for doing mumble-rap! Travi$ Scott was apparently buddies with the late Mac Miller, who was immensely talented and who I'm a big fan of.

[buzby]

ETA: you'd think in the UK, people would be a lot better trained on handling crushes after Hillsborough. Wasn't there a festival in Liverpool city centre a couple of years ago that could have easily turned nasty because of bottlenecks and poor crush control? I can't remember the name of it, it wasn't Matthew Street, but I do remember that Space were due to play and pulled out, and the whole thing sounded like a trainwreck.

Me and my then gf had a similar experience at Nation during a Chibuku club night in 2006 where 2 Many DJs were playing. The promoter had sold enough tickets to fill the whole venue, so when the Dewaele's set started two rooms' worth of punters tried to get into the room they were playing in. Between the two main rooms at Nation was a narrow corridor with a crush barrier down the middle, and they had set up a security gate at the entrace/exit door to stop the room getting overcrowded.

Unfortuately they hadn't thought that people might not just queue patiently waiting for someone to come out before they could get in, so as soon as the music started up everybody who wasn't already in the room tried to pile into the corridor, which turned into a massive crush. We were about half way down the corridor when the crush started from behind, and we got lifted off our feet. After about 10 minutes of this (nobody wqas coming out of the room after the gig had started)  I eventually managed to lift my gf over the crush barrier before climbing over it myself. It was horrible.

[peanutbutter]

Travis Scott's first album is pretty great imo, one I thought was okay at the time and just seem to like more and more as time goes on. Second album isn't as good but had enough going for it that I was still interested in his next one.


Knowing very little about his live rep it does sound like regardless of his behaviour on the night he cultivated the kind of circumstances that led to a situation like this.

Looking at some live clips now I can absolutely see the appeal and the issues, he's just non stop hyping the crowd up. I wonder how much of it is just an inability to gauge the kind of added risks you take when you're going into overdrive hyping up a far larger crowd than the kinds of crowds you started with. If you're not willing to accept larger venues are gonna have shitter vibes because of the risk of stuff like this, then you shouldn't be playing at them.

[Fambo Number Mive]

Scott and "surprise performer" Drake are facing legal action.

The BBC claim

One injured concertgoer has accused Scott and surprise performer Drake of inciting the crowd, and is seeking $1m (£741,000) in damages.

[Nowhere Man]

Cunt and Cuntier

[up_the_hampipe]

I'll admit I'm a big fan of Travis Scott's music. It's using autotune a lot more artfully than just disguising bad singing, a lot of his music has a distinct sound and mood. Even when he features on a track, it's like he takes control of it. I've enjoyed all of his albums, his most recent one (which spawned this festival) being the best.

I watched his Netflix documentary not too long ago, that's when I first saw his reckless approach to live performance. Even though he's a trap artist, he wants his live shows to have a punk energy, encouraging his fans to fuck shit up and disrespect police or security. He doesn't even care if people get hurt, even himself, because that's all part of the experience. The problem is he's too famous and the venues he plays are far too big for that behaviour, so it's just setting up catastrophe. This was bound to happen at some point. I'm not sure how much he was aware of what was really going on. Given the vibe of his live shows, I'm sure he's used to seeing people pass out and get dragged away, so stopping the show wouldn't have occurred to him. If he knew the extent of what had happened, I hope he would have been sensible. Even if he wants carnage, I doubt he wants deaths. Still, he's irresponsible and deserves the legal ramifications that come his way. It's disappointing and tragic.