News:

It's still under construction, so please bear with me


Link discovered between poverty and depression

Started by Zetetic, November 09, 2021, 05:51:39 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Zetetic

Poverty driving more than 1.3 million cases of depression, study finds (write-up by Rebecca Thomas, The Independent).



(Yes, I know, sorry for treating CaB like some godawful other place, but I can't risk affecting my social media brand.)

chveik

WHAT THE H

getting sick and tired of this trend of libs wanting to bring 'awaraness of mental health issues' (whatever the fuck that means) while never talking about material problems

bgmnts



Mister Six

Any update on the bear/woodland defecation study?

Shoulders?-Stomach!

Look, you need to tackle your unrewarding monotonous job, cramped damp living conditions, absent prospects, future of drudgery and nothingness with no accountability and no representation by chilling for 15 minutes a day in one of our RELAXOCUBEZ™.

It isn't the material impoverishment that's the problem, it's your idiot brain that isn't making use of the expensive RELAXOCUBEZ™ we invested in.

Also take 30 minutes a day 'me time'[nb]you must make up this time at other intervals of the day[/nb]


Johnny Foreigner

A recent study by the Vatican has concluded there are strong indications that, at the present time, the Pope considers himself a Catholic.

Zetetic

I've no really issue with researchers continuing to build out the evidence and demonstrate the scale of the effect, even if we should reflect on what the actual impact of repeating this mantra has been in the last 50 years.

chveik

Quote from: Zetetic on November 09, 2021, 06:34:11 PM
I've no really issue with researchers continuing to build out the evidence and demonstrate the scale of the effect, even if we should reflect on what the actual impact of repeating this mantra has been in the last 50 years.

"The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it." (i know this mantra has also been repeated for more than a century, but still)

Pink Gregory

It's dangerous to go alone!  Take this.

It is poverty and depression.

TrenterPercenter

So is this a meme thing?

Trying to decide what is more a deviation from reality; that anyone actually thinks poverty isn't a key driver of MH or that they you can will "treat" depression with houses and jobs.

"So I went to the GP the other day and told him about my mental health"
"That's very brave of you Stan what did they say?"
"They gave me a diagnosis of moderate depression and despair"
"Oh no"
"He's prescribed me a bungalow in Norwich"

Of course you need to improve social policy that is the whole point.  We've known this and been saying it for years, literally decades, internationally.  It was the medical profession and psychiatry that got you all taking meds (and many of you saying yes please). 

It's a bit weird this sense of aiming the sights at MHPs as most of them are public health advocates, the people that are bringing this report now, the people that via mental health awareness have been building the very platform on which to challenge the societal notions of what mental health is[nb]I mean I've been saying this for my whole time of been on CaB[/nb].  Mental health awareness has it's problems but the MHA or poverty recognition is a made up dichotomy.

Zetetic

Quote from: TrenterPercenter on November 09, 2021, 06:44:34 PM
We've known this and been saying it for years, literally decades, internationally.
What does that suggest to you?

TrenterPercenter

Quote from: Zetetic on November 09, 2021, 06:46:41 PM
What does that suggest to you?

You are not going to do this bollocks with me Z; I've been part of this movement for 20 years; it's cost me jobs and immense amounts of pain career wise.

We turned activists a long time ago; not sure what your skin is in it all but I'm won't be taking any lectures on this one thanks.

Zetetic


Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse

imagine

my

shock


but yeah at best, at best this will result in more affordable and accessible mental health services. no way will the underlying causes of poverty be tackled.

TrenterPercenter

Quote from: Zetetic on November 09, 2021, 06:49:48 PM
You're not really talking about me, are you?

I'm talking to you yes; not about you no; I'm saying that flippantly saying "what does this suggest to you?" when you know fully well what the answer is to that question, isn't something I'll prioritise answering.



Zetetic

Quote from: Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse on November 09, 2021, 06:52:16 PM
at best this will result in more affordable and accessible mental health services
The punchline is that repeating this actually drains resources for services for the most unwell - since they are beyond prevention.

TrenterPercenter

Quote from: Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse on November 09, 2021, 06:52:16 PM
but yeah at best, at best this will result in more affordable and accessible mental health services. no way will the underlying causes of poverty be tackled.

It won't even do that; as you have correctly diagnosed this is nothing new.

Quote from: Zetetic on November 09, 2021, 06:55:45 PM
The punchline is that repeating this actually drains resources for services for the most unwell - since they are beyond prevention.

No idea what is to be gained by making out MHS are the bad people here; but that is also nothing new; go ahead get rid of MHS and give everyone good houses and jobs; sounds like a perfectly sensible solution to me I can't see any problem with that at all.

Zetetic

I think we should have services for people with serious mental illness, and I think we should provide jobs and meaningful occupation to people who are currently driven to a state of chronic distress by the lack of these.

To that end, we should reflect on why banging the prevention drum non-stop since 1968 has delivered neither of things. Being an activist that undermines their own aims is shameful, and I want to move beyond this.

Zetetic

And if "go ahead get rid of MHS and give everyone good houses and jobs" was seriously on the table - and I appreciate that it is not - then, yes, I would take it. Despite the costs. I think this would constitute a more meaningful and dignified treatment of every single person without exception.

TrenterPercenter

Quote from: Zetetic on November 09, 2021, 07:08:41 PM
No.

Right, so run this through then that prevention of mild and moderate mental health concerns doesn't relate to serious mental health; you want people to be in a mental health crisis or sectioned before they can get treatment?


We can put your made up dichotomy aside that it is either prevention or houses for people; that doesn't exist.

Zetetic


bgmnts

Quote from: Shoulders?-Stomach! on November 09, 2021, 06:19:56 PM
Look, you need to tackle your unrewarding monotonous job, cramped damp living conditions, absent prospects, future of drudgery and nothingness with no accountability and no representation by chilling for 15 minutes a day in one of our RELAXOCUBEZ™.

It isn't the material impoverishment that's the problem, it's your idiot brain that isn't making use of the expensive RELAXOCUBEZ™ we invested in.

Also take 30 minutes a day 'me time'[nb]you must make up this time at other intervals of the day[/nb]

Nah, take your brand pills or just get into meditation man. You make your own happiness. Be the change you want.

Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse

Is it not a case that more than one thing can be true here? I was under the impression that mental illnesses can have several causes (genetic, environmental, traumatic experiences, injury). Living in poverty might cause depression, exacerbate depression, prevent people with depression from accessing proper treatment. In addition many people are forced to live in a way that isn't exactly conducive to mental and emotional wellness (low-paid jobs, dwindling social supports, long commutes, little or no job security all cause stress). That's why I said at best the outcome of "there's a link between poverty and depression" would be "more affordable and accessible mental health care". The current capitalist system makes too many people too much fucking money for e.g. a government to look back on the last year of working from home and say "does every job need an employee to travel two and a half hours to an office every morning and make the same journey back home in the evening, eating into time they could spend with their families and costing them money in either fuel or public transport fares?"

Ferris

Quote from: Shoulders?-Stomach! on November 09, 2021, 06:19:56 PM
Look, you need to tackle your unrewarding monotonous job, cramped damp living conditions, absent prospects, future of drudgery and nothingness with no accountability and no representation by chilling for 15 minutes a day in one of our RELAXOCUBEZ™.

It isn't the material impoverishment that's the problem, it's your idiot brain that isn't making use of the expensive RELAXOCUBEZ™ we invested in.

Also take 30 minutes a day 'me time'[nb]you must make up this time at other intervals of the day[/nb]

Found out last night a friend of mine from school killed himself 4 years ago and I had absolutely no idea. Went off his pills, hated his job, that was that but it was still quite a shock and I was up quite late on my own processing it. It's been on my mind all day actually. We used to swap guitars and Bill and Ted films, and we were both huge Spinal Tap fans which no one else we knew seemed to "get".

We hadn't spoken in probably 10 years (I don't have social media and haven't been back to the midlands) but it did occur to me that the crushing banality of shitty jobs hadn't helped. In fact the 3 people I know who have killed themselves did it before they were 35 and my last conversations with all of them (that I can remember anyway) revolved around how much they hated work.

It is one of the reasons why I hate the system we have and the ghoulish capitalists who drive it, because the hidden (?) cost of it is all around us but never seems to touch the people at the top. Anyway, not really after a response, just sort of working out my own feelings about it all. Sorry.

Zetetic

Quote from: TrenterPercenter on November 09, 2021, 07:08:11 PM
You can put your made up dichotomy aside that it is either prevention or houses for people; that doesn't exist.
Prevention, taken seriously, would be homes and meaningful occupation.
Early intervention is a nice idea but I'd happily give it up for a serious go at prevention, to be honest.

In practice, without prevention, early intervention is mostly unable to deal with demand and instead drains resources for helping the seriously unwell. This is 1968-2021.

Quote from: TrenterPercenter on November 09, 2021, 07:08:11 PM
you want people to be in a mental health crisis or sectioned before they can get treatment?
Well.

Quote from: Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse on November 09, 2021, 07:26:39 PMI was under the impression that mental illnesses can have several causes (genetic, environmental, traumatic experiences, injury).
Or "complex causal routes" if you prefer. Poverty will tend to affect the mental health of some more than others, for the sorts of reasons you touch on (and possibly just because head meat is ultimately put together in a slightly chaotic way). Some people will become seriously unwell and it will be impossible to unpick their first steps down that route - and put it down to this or that - in a satisfying way.


TrenterPercenter

Quote from: Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse on November 09, 2021, 07:26:39 PM
Is it not a case that more than one thing can be true here? I was under the impression that mental illnesses can have several causes (genetic, environmental, traumatic experiences, injury). Living in poverty might cause depression, exacerbate depression, prevent people with depression from accessing proper treatment.

Yes and this is much better way of approaching this; no-one in MHA thinks differently to this in fact if we take the biggest MHA programme "Time to Change" it is through there work that people are so comfortable to talk about depression which was still quite stigmatised when they started 10+ years ago; they threaded through a notion that being "ill" didn't mean your we less of person or be ignored and therefore set the ground for societal pressure to recognise and take seriously mental health.  Yet they are being spoken about as if it was a ruse to distract people from getting prescribed houses by their GP.

Zetetic

Love to take seriously mental health as I issue §21s eviction notices.

TrenterPercenter

This is utterly batshit; you think people carrying out mental health advocacy are handing out eviction notices. Yeah ok.

You are the misrepresenting what that report says; you are misrepresenting what "prevention" is and how it actually works, you are misrepresenting (displaying an ignorance in knowledge) how mental illnesses develop (what are you some medical model zealot?), you are misrepresenting what early intervention does and has been doing for the last 20 years, misrepresenting the masses of evidence and science that supports it (50% of mental illness start prior to age 14; these occur in young people that don't yet have shitty jobs and have homes) and you are misrepresenting and fabricating some dichotomy between mental health awareness, housing and social policy.

That is a lot of misrepresentation.  For what? some fantasy world in which governments will prescribe houses against some belief that mental health budgets are occupying the funds to do so and some shoddy interpretation of "serious mental illness" or some "despair" diagnosis you've just made up.  It's virtually rightwing shock-jock bullshittery but you are very welcome to it if that is what works for you.