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March 28, 2024, 12:21:46 PM

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HS2 Leeds to Birmingham line scrapped

Started by Fambo Number Mive, November 15, 2021, 04:49:41 PM

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Gurke and Hare


Fr.Bigley


Sebastian Cobb

One of the problems was the pr of the project was needlessly London-focused. It was mostly advertised as time to London rather than pointing out people wouldn't get stuck behind local stopping trains.

It certainly explains some of the indifference and in some cases outright opposition to a national infrastructure plan.

Das Reboot

Quote from: buzby on November 15, 2021, 09:25:09 PMa section of route via Stoke-on-Trent had to be closed entirely for over two months in 2003.[/b]"
Could have sworn it was a lot longer than that. Certainly felt like it. Perpetual replacement bus service.

Fambo Number Mive

I think some Tory party members are getting very concerned - 20 of the 56 comments on this BBC comments section about the HS2 eastern leg being cancelled are from the same person, "Roger"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-59318730

Fambo Number Mive

Quote from: Ambient Sheep on November 15, 2021, 06:02:16 PMLooks like this thread might be informative, although I've only skimmed it myself:

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/hs2-rail-extension-to-leeds-set-to-be-scrapped.224851/


EDIT: Particularly this post:


Looks like the railforums poster you quoted was correct.

Bradford - the worst connected city in the UK - will be the main place to lose out from this.

The Culture Bunker

Quote from: Fambo Number Mive on November 18, 2021, 01:32:08 PMBradford - the worst connected city in the UK - will be the main place to lose out from this.
I go through Bradford when I visit my brother (Manchester Vic to Bradford Interchange, then walk over to Foster Square) and it does seem strange how such a sizeable city is served by two fairly minor terminus stations. Presumably if you want to go to London or up to Scotland, you have to do so via Leeds?

Reading threads like this make me want to download and play Transport Tycoon again.

Mr_Simnock


QuoteA1 baby, and that's the only way to drive!


Its 195 miles, 2 Hours? My arse, your'e kidding no-one.

buzby

#38
The 'Northern Powerhouse' proposal between Liverpool-Manchester-Leeds sounds ridiculous.

Out of Lime St to a reinstated Warringon Bank Quay Low Level via Ditton, onto a new HS line to join onto HS2 to Manchester Airport, into a new terminus platform at Piccadilly where it will reverse out onto a new HS line as far as Marsden (requiring new tunnels at Standedge), and then back onto the Trans-Pennine line.

It also means that all London and Birmingham services from Liverpool will use this route onto HS2, so Runcorn's direct link to London will diappear, along with it's use as a 'park and ride' station for south Liverpool, Wirral and Chester.

The route between Liverpool and Manchester is basically a recreation of the old Cheshire Lines route that went from Liverpool Central High Level to Manchester Central via a long loop to the south of Manchester, which got closed because it was the longest and slowest of the 3 routes between the cities. The extra line speed will be offset by it going massively out of the way to the south and east. It also means the Ordsall Chord that they have just finished to link Victoria to Piccadilly for the TPE trains (at great expense) is now redundant, apart for possibly local services.

The document is selective in it's timings between the two cities - it cites 50 minutes currently, but that is between Liverpool and Piccadilly. It's only 35 minutes between Liverpool and Victoria (because it doesn't have to dawdle along the Castlefield viaduct and Oxford Rd). The new line will take 30 minutes to get to Piccadilly.

The Culture Bunker

Quote from: buzby on November 18, 2021, 03:47:23 PMThe route between Liverpool and Manchester is basically a recreation of the old Cheshire Lines route that went from Liverpool Central High Level to Manchester Central via a long loop to the south of Manchester, which got closed because it was the longest and slowest of the 3 routes between the cities.
The loop you mention I'm not sure would have carried trains to Manc Central, more towards Stockport Tivot Dale via Timperley and Cheadle. I'm doubtless wrong - but from reading the entry on the Disused Stations, the express Liverpool Central to Manchester Central only took 45 minutes.

I used to be in a band with some lads from Irlam whose dads told tales of the epic battles on the railway viaduct over the ship canal between them and factions from Flixton... you often hear vague talk of reopening the line, and the viaduct is still standing. Presumably it might have some use directing freight traffic away from the city centre, but not sure it would be financially viable.

Quote from: buzby on November 18, 2021, 03:47:23 PMIt also means the Ordsall Chord that they have just finished to link Victoria to Piccadilly for the TPE trains (at great expense) is now redundant, apart for possibly local services.
I think it was a pretty pointless bit of work after they scrapped plans to build a couple of extra through platforms at Piccadilly. All it offered was the chance for more traffic on an already very busy bit of track.

One potenshal plus point in this is that the Tory's may lose some support in the north, hopefully. 

king_tubby

The Tories are worried about NIMBY marginals on the routes, they don't give a shit about Labour voting Leeds, Bradford, Liverpool, Manchester....

Sebastian Cobb

Quote from: king_tubby on November 18, 2021, 06:56:01 PMThe Tories are worried about NIMBY marginals on the routes, they don't give a shit about Labour voting Leeds, Bradford, Liverpool, Manchester....

The cunts will lack the permanence to remember this favour when the tories inevitably turn over nearby land to developer to throw in a gigantic housing development that jeopardises everything they hold dear (quiet local roads and house prices). But they'll still vote for them again and again and again.

Jittlebags

Yes,

Anthrax Homes is at the forefront of high quality new residential development in prime locations, beautiful homes that people aspire to live and work in. Each one uniquely adorned with a builder's present*, in time honoured style.


* a turd in the cupboard under the sink.

buzby

Quote from: The Culture Bunker on November 18, 2021, 04:24:28 PMThe loop you mention I'm not sure would have carried trains to Manc Central, more towards Stockport Tivot Dale via Timperley and Cheadle. I'm doubtless wrong - but from reading the entry on the Disused Stations, the express Liverpool Central to Manchester Central only took 45 minutes.
It was the LNWR line that went to Bank Quay LL, not the CLC one, sorry. It still exists as far as Sankey Bridges as it was used for the Fiddlers Ferry MGR trains from Livepool Docks (Fiddlers Ferry is now closed and awaiting demolition to be turned into 4000 houses). It carried on through Warrington Arpley, over the ship canal on a high-level skew bridge at Latchford and eventually met the Glazebook-Tiviot Dale CLC line at Timperley, where it had a junction onto the Manchester South Junction & Altrincham Railway into Manchester Central (via Cornbrook Junction), and later on into Piccadilly.

The Liverpool Central-Manchester Central service on that route ended due to the Beeching cuts in 1963, and all passenger use of the line ceased in 1065 and the line went to freight-only. The line closed completely in 1985 after BR decided not to pay for urgent repair work on the bridge at Latchford, with only the section to Sankey Bridges being retained to supply Fiddler's Ferry. The southern section of the MSJAR it used between Timperley and Cornbrook eventually became the Metrolink line. The abandoned section of trackbed between Latchford and Timperley became part of the Trans Pennine Trail.

The Lime St-Victoria expresses along the Chat Moss line used to take about 30 minutes.

Pinball

Cancel HS2 entirely, and Heathrow's 3rd runway. It's Zoom time.

Uncle TechTip

There's a depressing story on the Guardian about someone forced to sell their new build house in Doncaster to HS2, as it was on the line. Now it's cancelled but HS2 have no plans to make it right and are still renting the houses out. Absolutely disgusting how those former owners have been treated. There's an easy fix, let them buy back at the same rock bottom price, but that won't happen will it. It just makes you sad and angry.

Zetetic

I guess this makes it easier to wonder whether "England" as a political unit really serves the needs of its residents.