31 dead as boat sinks in Channel

[Johnny Yesno]

It certainly is the theoram.

[JaDanketies]

festering human rights industry

terrifying to think that Human Rights aren't some intrinsic property of being a human, and were not given to us by God. Instead they're something that the rulers of the world have 'allowed' us to have, on a whim. In my benevolent dictatorship there would be no question as to whether or not any individual deserved human rights.

[Porky]

By that logic, no one from the UK should be allowed to emigrate to a more densly populated country because "there is simply not enough room".

In October 2019, there were found to be over 648,114 empty homes in England alone. This represents a 2.2% increase on the previous year's total. Of the 648,114, 225,845 were classed as long-term empty properties (empty for longer than six months). We've also got a lot of commerical properties lying vacant that could be demolished and turned into housing. Whenever I go down one of the main streets in Oxford I see several large commercial properties that have remained vacant for years. Imagine if those properties were demolished and some affordable housing built in its place.

The population of the Uk and the landmass of the UK doesn't get in the way of Buelligan's argument. We could easily provide home for hundreds of thousands of refugees, if we managed to find billions for Test and Trace, we can find a couple of million for welcoming, housing and supporting refugees each year. And if refugees were allowed to work in the UK (or is it just England that does not allow this?) they would be contributing to the economy. Perhaps we might even be able to find some more lorry drivers or fill other vacancies where there is a skills gap.

All very well but our utilities, water/drains/electrics is running close to it limits along with the issue of who pays for these extra properties that would be in the wrong place anyway. There is an acute housing shortage in Cornwall, Devon and parts of Wales. The realities is that in some places we should actually be reducing the housing stock and discouraging the arrival of more people. It would actually be far cheaper to proving these migrants with housing back where they came from. As to more lorry drivers,  lot of the stuff moved by road would be better moved by rail.

[Johnny Yesno]

We've got a live one here.

[Fambo Number Mive]

All very well but our utilities, water/drains/electrics is running close to it limits along with the issue of who pays for these extra properties that would be in the wrong place anyway. There is an acute housing shortage in Cornwall, Devon and parts of Wales. The realities is that in some places we should actually be reducing the housing stock and discouraging the arrival of more people. It would actually be far cheaper to proving these migrants with housing back where they came from. As to more lorry drivers,  lot of the stuff moved by road would be better moved by rail.

Why are our utilties running close to their limits? Perhaps if utility companies had an incentive to invest in improving their networks more rather than pay generous dividends to shareholders - or nationalise water, sewerage, electricity etc so it isn't about making a profit on vital services.

There aren't enough houses in places like Cornwall and Devon because there are so many second homes - taxing second homes that aren't used for more than three months of the year would free up some housing stock and encourage second home owners who didn't want to sell up to spend more time in their second homes to avoid the tax, thereby generating more local income. I'm not sure why we should be reducing the housing stock in some areas - how would that help?

"It would actually be far cheaper to proving these migrants with housing back where they came from" - most of these refugees are fleeing war, poverty or famine. Providing them with a house in the area they are trying to flee won't help.

It would be great if more freight could be moved via rail but we don't have the infrastructure and it doesn't change the fact that we have a massive shortage of lorry drivers.

[Twit 2]

He's got to be trolling. Surely he can't be that thick?

[bgmnts]

All very well but our utilities, water/drains/electrics is running close to it limits along with the issue of who pays for these extra properties that would be in the wrong place anyway. There is an acute housing shortage in Cornwall, Devon and parts of Wales. The realities is that in some places we should actually be reducing the housing stock and discouraging the arrival of more people. It would actually be far cheaper to proving these migrants with housing back where they came from. As to more lorry drivers,  lot of the stuff moved by road would be better moved by rail.

How can there be a housing shortage when there are a few dozen people in the country with houses and land bigger than my village?

[Twit 2]

1% of the population own 50% of the land. If you come on this site saying Britain's full, you're thick as pigshit, a Tory cunt or a troll.

[buttgammon]

1% of the population own 50% of the land. If you come on this site saying Britain's full, you're thick as pigshit, a Tory cunt or a troll.

Or all three!

[Johnny Yesno]

Mohammad says that during their crossing the right sponson was losing air and waves were coming into the boat. People were bailing out the sea water and using a hand pump to reinflate the right sponson as best they could, but after the pump stopped working they called to the French coastguard for rescue. They shared their GPS position via a smartphone with the French authorities, to which the French responded that the boat was in British waters and that they had to call the British. The travellers then called the UK Coastguard who told them to call back to the French. According to his testimony "Two people were calling – one was calling France and the other was calling Britain". Mohammad recounted that: "The British police didn't help us and the French police said, "You're in British waters, we can't come." Despite both HM Coastguard Dover and French Maritime Rescue Coordination Centre at Gris-Nez knowing the location and condition of the boat, neither launched a search and rescue operation.

https://calaismigrantsolidarity.wordpress.com/2021/11/30/deaths-and-push-backs-through-calculated-non-assistance-in-the-channel/

[Buelligan]

[Porky]

1% of the population own 50% of the land. If you come on this site saying Britain's full, you're thick as pigshit, a Tory cunt or a troll.

I am not a tory nor a troll,in this context it matters not who actually owns the land, as to what you are it is clearly that you are a troll and reckless. You are are inciting people to make a journey that is highly dangerous and not necessary .. they have crossed hundreds of kilometres of safe refuge. My bet is that you are an highly privileged do as I say not what I do fuckwit.

[jobotic]

ooh "it matters not".

[Porky]

During the 1940s, 1950s, 1960 we invited people from various commonwealth nations to come to the UK to fill gaps in the labour markets .. these people came by invitation and we made promises to them .. we have a duty to these people and their descendants and that has to be the priority, we also assimilated a modest number of people who we had moved to other parts of the former empire, again we have a duty to those people.We laso have a duty towards the Afghans who worked for us and are no longer safe to remain in Afgahnistan. The people crossing the channel are neither legal nor invited and they are people aided and encouraged by criminal gangs. We have no duty towards them.

[JaDanketies]

I just like to think "we all have obligations to each other because of humanity." It's not failed me yet.

[Buelligan]

Agree totally.

During the 1940s, 1950s, 1960 we invited people from various commonwealth nations to come to the UK to fill gaps in the labour markets .. these people came by invitation and we made promises to them .. we have a duty to these people and their descendants and that has to be the priority, we also assimilated a modest number of people who we had moved to other parts of the former empire, again we have a duty to those people.We laso have a duty towards the Afghans who worked for us and are no longer safe to remain in Afgahnistan. The people crossing the channel are neither legal nor invited and they are people aided and encouraged by criminal gangs. We have no duty towards them.

You seem quite specific about these Afghans.  What about people whose historic homeland was in a British protectorate or British federated state? 

What about people whose homes were in places like British mandated Palestine?

How do you feel about those made homeless by the dropping of British made, British sold, ordnance?  You know, one day they were just sitting there in their homes, maybe eating tea with the kids, next day it was a smouldering heap of body parts and rubble.  How about them, do we owe them anything?

No duty towards a child lying drowned on some beach. None.

[Johnny Yesno]

The people crossing the channel are neither legal nor invited

Wrong. They are legal.

and they are people aided and encouraged by criminal gangs. We have no duty towards them.

Wrong again. We have a duty to them under international law. The fact that they need to use the services of people traffickers because we offer no safe routes means we are failing in that duty.

[Johnny Yesno]

I am not a tory nor a troll

Your username suggests I should not believe you.

[Porky]

Your username suggests I should not believe you.

Your user name suggests that you are insincere.

[Twit 2]

If you come on this site saying Britain's full, you're thick as pigshit, a Tory cunt or a troll.

I am not a tory nor a troll

Thick as pigshit it is, then!

[shoulders]

Being old brown children they would have died soon anyway

[shoulders]

During the 1940s, 1950s, 1960 we invited people from various commonwealth nations to come to the UK to fill gaps in the labour markets .. these people came by invitation and we made promises to them .. we have a duty to these people and their descendants and that has to be the priority, we also assimilated a modest number of people who we had moved to other parts of the former empire, again we have a duty to those people.We laso have a duty towards the Afghans who worked for us and are no longer safe to remain in Afgahnistan. The people crossing the channel are neither legal nor invited and they are people aided and encouraged by criminal gangs. We have no duty towards them.

You're the willing spokesperson for the real criminal gangs. Why bother with a PR department when you can train people to guff out this total shit for free?

[bgmnts]

This is either a piss weak wind up or a really really grim opinion.

[phantom_power]

We have a population of 60 million but a population of 60 million and a few thousand will destroy the country? That adds up

[Buelligan]

And you know, if you can really accept the idea that it's OK to just deny responsibility for the living or dying of others, if you can really live with yourself, really walk away like that, what does that mean for those that run things?  If we don't give a fuck about families, utterly desperate people, dying, why the fuck should a cunt like Patel?

And if we give her, all of them, that get out of jail card, if we, the people, say fine, it's fine not to give a fuck about whether others live or die, why the fuck to we imagine they'd care about us.  Our kids.  Our lives?

[Johnny Yesno]

Oh, fuck. The Third-Country Asylum Partnership (TCAP): https://twitter.com/RespectIsVital/status/1466427019277869074

[buttgammon]

Oh, fuck. The Third-Country Asylum Partnership (TCAP): https://twitter.com/RespectIsVital/status/1466427019277869074

Great, all this 'we need to be unreasonably tough on vulnerable people like Australia' shit is really being taken to heart.

[Fambo Number Mive]

The BBC reports on some of those who died crossing the Channel: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-59650239

If a safe route for claiming asylum in the UK had been provided they wouldn't have had to risk their lives like this. It's disgusting.