Rammstein - Zeit

[Magnum Valentino]

New one from these lads, anyone listened? I wasn't expecting much as I didn't get on with the last album, but their first two albums are two of my favourite ever. They were gloriously minimalist brutal stomp fucking riff master-bastards, once.

Zeit is quite excellent, actually. Very sturdy tunes. Good stuff, already looking forward to another listen.

Feel free to chat about other Rammstein stuff as well (like the class shot in the Ich Will video where the guitarist looks at a security guard until he pisses himself, or whichever less successful German bands you feel like they've ripped off).

[bgmnts]

Will check this out as yeah the first two albums are great. I assume people don't rate Rammstein because they're a bit simplistic and the mega teutonic masculine thing is a bit silly.

Wolt ihr das Bett in Flammen sehen is an absolute beast of a tune.

[Poobum]

Absolutely loved the last album, real return to form. Deutschland was a fantastically powerful peace of work, honestly reflecting on the contradictions in being a proud German. Zeit is wonderful, quite different, modern and melodic. This, a new Laibach album last month (Rammstein still copying them, though they're Slovenian to be fair) and new Zola Jesus and Ionnalee albums coming out soon is wunderbar.

[Poobum]

Love this.

[Pink Gregory]

Increasingly I go back to Herzeleid as my favourite.  I find all their other records are a bit front-loaded and the back half drops off.  Not so with Herzeleid.

Sehnsucht I quickly tire of (Tier, Buck Dich, Bestrafe Mich, ehhh), Reise Reise I only really care up until Keine Lust (Stein Um Stein is an exception), Rosenrot is Benzin, Mann Gegen Mann and Spring, don't bother with the rest and again, Liebe ist...I don't care for much of the back half.  Haven't actually heard the s/t album but the singles are some of their best.

[iamcoop]

Increasingly I go back to Herzeleid as my favourite.  I find all their other records are a bit front-loaded and the back half drops off.  Not so with Herzeleid.

Sehnsucht I quickly tire of (Tier, Buck Dich, Bestrafe Mich, ehhh), Reise Reise I only really care up until Keine Lust (Stein Um Stein is an exception), Rosenrot is Benzin, Mann Gegen Mann and Spring, don't bother with the rest and again, Liebe ist...I don't care for much of the back half.  Haven't actually heard the s/t album but the singles are some of their best.

The s/t album is great. It's up there with their best stuff, in my opinion.

[flotemysost]

I assume people don't rate Rammstein because they're a bit simplistic and the mega teutonic masculine thing is a bit silly.

I always thought it was obvious how tongue-in-cheek and super-ironic a lot of their shtick is - I mean, I don't doubt that they like the odd knees-up IRL, and I know that sort of "shock value" stuff generally ages pretty fast - but it always struck me as an unmistakable send-up of that kind of cartoonish hyper-masculine hard man stuff. Certainly they don't shy away from the homoerotic element of it - snogging each other on stage in Russia surely shows dedication to that elaborate level of trolling.

And Till's solo project had a song (in English) all about abortion - I mean I'm assuming those lyrics are clearly a pisstake too as they're so OTT and silly, but still, it's hardly the output of an ultra-traditional hard-right-er.

Also I don't speak German, but a few fans I know (who are German/can understand it) have said that their lyrics often use lots of wordplay and double meanings, even if a direct translation might not sound very complex.

I've seen them live a couple of times and had an absolute blast (literally. Even if you're not that into their music I'd recommend seeing them, it's completely ridiculous but a lot of fun), but I've not actually properly listened to the majority of their albums. A friend gave me a copy of Made In Germany a few years back, and I really liked the last album, but I don't know the older stuff that well and have yet to give Zeit a proper listen.

[bgmnts]

I always thought it was obvious how tongue-in-cheek and super-ironic a lot of their shtick is - I mean, I don't doubt that they like the odd knees-up IRL, and I know that sort of "shock value" stuff generally ages pretty fast - but it always struck me as an unmistakable send-up of that kind of cartoonish hyper-masculine hard man stuff. Certainly they don't shy away from the homoerotic element of it - snogging each other on stage in Russia surely shows dedication to that elaborate level of trolling.

And Till's solo project had a song (in English) all about abortion - I mean I'm assuming those lyrics are clearly a pisstake too as they're so OTT and silly, but still, it's hardly the output of an ultra-traditional hard-right-er.

Also I don't speak German, but a few fans I know (who are German/can understand it) have said that their lyrics often use lots of wordplay and double meanings, even if a direct translation might not sound very complex.

I've seen them live a couple of times and had an absolute blast (literally. Even if you're not that into their music I'd recommend seeing them, it's completely ridiculous but a lot of fun), but I've not actually properly listened to the majority of their albums. A friend gave me a copy of Made In Germany a few years back, and I really liked the last album, but I don't know the older stuff that well and have yet to give Zeit a proper listen.

Well to me it's tongue in cheek obviously but I don't make any assumptions anymore about how other people would think no matter how obvious it would seem!

My Swiss friend went to a gig at a festival I think and she told me that she was genuinely shocked by what was going on but didn't elaborate so I dunno if it's wall to wall fucking and fighting on the pills and booze or what. Sounds like it would be a giggle though if you're into that.

[Magnum Valentino]

Funny how much discussion about Rammstein revolves around their image and behaviour (from live performances to videos), and this is totally understandable because they work very hard on it, but for me what absolutely captivated me instantly and obsessively for the first maybe two years of what became an enduring fandom was their music.

I think it was probably the riff for Du Reisch So Gut specifically. It's just horrible, it's really ignorant and insistent, and it was such a change from all the (class) Mutter singles I'd heard on Kerrang which never compelled me to buy an album.

Got a lend of Live Aus Berlin which is a great account of those first two records with a brilliant stage show before it became TOO elaborate, and I couldn't get enough of it. There's a dryness to the first two albums, and a weird duality where the music and tone shifts between cold and furious to honest and impassionate, and as someone who has never engaged too much with lyrics (death metal fan for too long!) it was never a barrier that I couldn't understand them.

When they embraced their status as a band on the rise and became more straightforward and dropped the dance influence from their sound, they lost something that was distinctly their own but opened a door to some of the heaviest songwriting in metal history. There's something about that fucking Sonne riff that gets more impressive and devastating when you actually study the chord choices there. It was designed to destroy you like.

Their keyboardist is my favourite member just for the subtlety of his playing. He can drop in and change the tone of a song with two notes/chords (and does, for example, on Alter Mann and Weidman's Heil) and is a great example of their mastery of arrangement.

If anyone on Prime hasn't seen their documentary In Amerika it's absolutely brilliant, lots of historical context for why it would be important for a German metal band to a)exist b)thrive and c)break the US.

[flotemysost]

Funny how much discussion about Rammstein revolves around their image and behaviour (from live performances to videos), and this is totally understandable because they work very hard on it, but for me what absolutely captivated me instantly and obsessively for the first maybe two years of what became an enduring fandom was their music.

Ha, yep sorry, I didn't mean to predictably drag this into a discussion about cock cannons etc. as ultimately the music's more interesting. I think it's precisely the "they work very hard on it" bit that makes it compelling, though - that kind of thing could easily be incredibly cringey and tiresome if you just did a half-arsed job, it's their dogged dedication to the whole theatrical element that I find sort of fascinating. Want to have advanced pyrotechnics in our show? Sure, we'll all train for the required safety qualifications! Want to have a glowing orb in the lead singer's mouth? Sure, let me just pierce my cheek!

I think paired with their utter lack of "HELLOOO [CITY]! HOW WE ALL DOING TONIGHT???" type stuff in their live shows (I mean, partly because they don't all speak loads of English, I know) it's just an interesting counterpoint to the popular concept of what a BIG STADIUM PERFORMANCE should be, though I'm obviously not suggesting they're the only act to do this.

Anyway. I know what you mean about the dryness of the first two albums (from what I've heard) and I'm drawn to the dancey/clubby feel of the earlier stuff. Disc 2 of the Made in Germany compliation has some mint remixes that bring out that element in some of the heavier stuff, too - the Junkie XL remix of Feuer Frei! was on my "getting pumped up for work in the morning" playlist for ages, though I love the original too.

My Swiss friend went to a gig at a festival I think and she told me that she was genuinely shocked by what was going on but didn't elaborate so I dunno if it's wall to wall fucking and fighting on the pills and booze or what. Sounds like it would be a giggle though if you're into that.

Nah, I doubt it, going by the times I've seen them (though I wasn't at that show your friend was at). It's almost like going to the panto, just a panto with

Spoiler alert

fake cocks spurting foam into the audience, babies being immolated in their prams, band members pretending to fuck/cook and eat one other, etc.

[close]

It's a hoot! (genuinely)

[Pink Gregory]

Till Lindemann in particular has a real wit to his body language.

In the Deutschland video, the way he delivers the 'Deutschland, Deutschland, Uber Allen' right down the camera, during the bit that alludes very heavily to extermination camps, sums up the ironies and double meanings of that song in an instant.

[Magnum Valentino]

Yeah he and the drummer in particular have extraordinary physical communicative ability.

[Famous Mortimer]

I assume stuff like "Mann Gegen Mann" is a deliberate attempt to upset the worst elements of their fanbase:

[Pink Gregory]

okay fellows we're going to so the Deutschland video, now who wants to dress up as Ulrike Meinhof?

Till Lindemann : mich!  mich!

[All Surrogate]

I always thought it was obvious how tongue-in-cheek and super-ironic a lot of their shtick is

Heh, the band does have Flake in it, afterall.

The fucking bee's knees.

[Icehaven]

I love Rammstein to bits, will be giving this a listen very shortly. The Deutschland video is one of the best things I've seen in years too, and it just makes me happy to see so much effort and excellence being put into a medium that's generally fallen by the wayside a bit recently.

[bgmnts]

Honestly wasn't a fan of the new album, all a bit slow for me.

But fucking hell I listened to Herzeleid again. What an album!

[Pink Gregory]

Honestly wasn't a fan of the new album, all a bit slow for me.

But fucking hell I listened to Herzeleid again. What an album!

Yeah, their slower, ballad-y stuff I haven't got loads of time for, don't even like Ohne Dich.

Reise, Reise (the song) however is magnificent.  As is Seemann, those are the exceptions.

[Kankurette]

Flake is my favourite member as well, just because he lets Till cook him in a pot during Mein Teil. I think he's the one who gets bummed in Bück Dich as well. And yes, I have seen the cock cannon.

The video for Zick Zack is...certainly something. Till looks like Pete Burns. The fluffy cat at the end licking up the blood was a nice touch. And I WILL be one of those grandmas in 20 years' time, provided I'm not in grave. Mutter is probably my favourite album as it's the one that really got me into them, although I like Reise Reise and what I've heard of Liebe Ist Für Alle Da. I managed to do a passable English translation of Mein Teil.

[iamcoop]

I first saw the dildo thing on a VHS of the Family Values Tour '98 which was a Nu-Metal package tour that travelled around the US. It also featured Korn, Limp Bizkit, Ice Cube and shock-rock also-rans ORGY.

I have fond memories of showing all my mates the Rammstein footage and it absolutely blowing our 13-year old minds.

[Povidone]

Me and a pal at school used to sing 'Du Hast' with the lyric we assumed to be: 'Dreies eier fur alle tage' as in three eggs for every day, lamenting that neither of us could live up to such lofty ambitions. Naturally neither of us got good grades in German.

This is the extent of my Rammstein knowledge.

[Kankurette]

I always used to feel smug about being able to understand the songs because I did GCSE/A-Level German.

[bgmnts]

I know what the song Asche zu Asche means because I'm a genius.

[Pink Gregory]

ICH WILL FICKEN!

DAS ALTE LEID!

[Kankurette]

I have an urge to go and listen to Pussy now.

[Famous Mortimer]

I first saw the dildo thing on a VHS of the Family Values Tour '98 which was a Nu-Metal package tour that travelled around the US. It also featured Korn, Limp Bizkit, Ice Cube and shock-rock also-rans ORGY.

I have fond memories of showing all my mates the Rammstein footage and it absolutely blowing our 13-year old minds.

I saw them waving something akin to that around when they played Manchester Apollo in...god knows. Around the turn of the millennium, maybe? Lots of fire, too.

EDIT: May 17, 2002. That were a good night.

[Poobum]

Being young and naïve I used to assumed European band = sophisticated depth, then I read the translated lyrics to Fellfrosch.

Going to see them in Cardiff on the 30th June. Always been on the bucket list but shit mental health always got in the way.

[Kankurette]

I hope you can make it, they're a lot of fun.

[Pink Gregory]

How is that that this band can record a song that is literally called 'Big Tits' that is, as far as I'm aware, also about Big Tits and yet not be embarrassing?

Love these boys.