Marvel phases 4, 5, and 6, 2022-2025

[Lord Mandrake]

Ok, well I'm bored of it now anyway.

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Limmy's a fan:

[bgmnts]

Hearing Limmy say lit made my scrotum crawl up inside my arsehole.

[Glebe]

Kind of like Asterix and Obelix in a way

Asterix needs constant top-ups from Getafix to be superhuman though. And Obelix can't have any cause he fell into the cauldron as a baby. And he's not fat, his "chest has just slipped a bit".

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Asterix needs constant top-ups from Getafix to be superhuman though. And Obelix can't have any cause he fell into the cauldron as a baby. And he's not fat, his "chest has just slipped a bit".

That's what I mean.  Basically if you don't want top-ups forever you should fall in it as a baby, unless you are likely to be annoyed that you aren't ever allowed to taste any.

[Crenners]

Quality that your man even managed to turn Marvel fans against Marvel films. Great work.

🍻🍻🍻

[Mister Six]

Actually I think it is. Not just directors though, the execs, the old system, the casting couch. Your precious 90's films, many of them crime scenes.

[madhair60]

https://gizmodo.com/disney-marvel-movies-vfx-industry-nightmare-1849385834

[phantom_power]

but here it's repeatedly spelt out that Marvel are by far the worst, that they make demands that no other company does (and blacklist you if you try to explain why something can't be done) and how the amount of hours they work for Marvel is enormous compared to other studios.

If Marvel genuinely are the worst in this sense then I won't defend them but is this true? Or is it that they have been asked more about Marvel films (due to the aforementioned clicks) and so talk about them more?

From the article above:
"We're hearing about Marvel's treatment of VFX studios more than any other production company because there's just so much of it, regardless of specific relationships to vendors. "Marvel has a different production team every single time," explained Conrad, a production coordinator who has worked on multiple Marvel projects. "So sometimes you might have a really, really good working relationship with them, and other times you might not.""

So it sounds like Marvel aren't any worse than other companies. They just have more on the go at any one time and so there is more chance of bad relationships and treatment

Why would the effects team give a shit about the clicks that their interviewers get? 

It is more about the people, and sites, doing the interviews. They are more likely to ask questions about Marvel as that will draw in the clicks, in the same way that football sites try to link everything to Man Utd and Liverpool. A bigger fanbase leads to a bigger readership

[QDRPHNC]

If Marvel genuinely are the worst in this sense then I won't defend them but is this true? Or is it that they have been asked more about Marvel films (due to the aforementioned clicks) and so talk about them more?

I really think it is the Wal-Mart effect. If Wal-Mart doesn't carry your product, you can't afford to be in business because they're by far your biggest buyer - because they undercut everyone else in the area and put them out of business. And if Wal-Mart says you're going to sell them each product for 10 cents less because that's what they want, you're going to do whatever you have to do to make that happen.

But in general, I think this type of burn-out and crunch has always been a part of digital creative industries (which is all of them now, of course). Even in the design industry, I've known agencies who have gotten a contract with say a giant automotive firm, and to get the job they have to hire more people, sometimes even doubling in size to handle one client. Budgets begin to die by a thousand cuts, and two years later when your retainer contract is up, the client doesn't renegotiate, they just go to another agency because either that agency has undercut you, or your burned out employees aren't doing their best work, or there's a new CCO who wants to "start fresh" with a new team he selects. At that point, either you let half your workforce go or you shut up shop.

[Mister Six]

So it sounds like Marvel aren't any worse than other companies. They just have more on the go at any one time and so there is more chance of bad relationships and treatment

One of the other articles makes the point that Marvel tends to hire people without a lot of VFX experience, and (because those people are not used to planning ahead with VFX shots, or imagining what a simple prototype render looks like once it's all dolled up) lets them rework CGI late in the day and/or demand high-detail renders early in the visualisation process, putting unnecessary strain on VFX teams. It's implied that this is not the norm, as is Marvel not ensuring that the cinematographers work with the VFX houses, leading to inconsistent output that then damages the reputation of the houses in question.

So yeah, there are widespread problems, but Marvel appear to be worse than most, and their sheer size leads to firms having to tolerate it.

I don't think most people on here defended crunch burnout at game studios or approve of Amazon workers having to stand at conveyor belts with nappies on so they can piss standing up without taking a toilet break, so I'm not sure why people are getting defensive about Marvel when its practices cause similar issues for FX workers.

[phantom_power]

It sounds like the big problem here is a non-unionised VFX industry rather than any particular studio, though Marvel do seem to have some bad practice that exacerbates the problems. Individual FX companies need to be held accountable for protecting their workers and not screwing them over to undercut the competition. This obviously won't happen to individual companies as they will fuck themselves over so there needs to be an industry-wide push to make things fairer

[QDRPHNC]

Yeah, it has to be an industry thing, because someone will always be willing to quote lower and work their team harder.

[curiousoranges]

You know how people pop into these threads just to say they don't like superhero films? Well here's me doing that.

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If Marvel genuinely are the worst in this sense then I won't defend them but is this true? Or is it that they have been asked more about Marvel films (due to the aforementioned clicks) and so talk about them more?

From the article above:
"We're hearing about Marvel's treatment of VFX studios more than any other production company because there's just so much of it, regardless of specific relationships to vendors. "Marvel has a different production team every single time," explained Conrad, a production coordinator who has worked on multiple Marvel projects. "So sometimes you might have a really, really good working relationship with them, and other times you might not.""

So it sounds like Marvel aren't any worse than other companies. They just have more on the go at any one time and so there is more chance of bad relationships and treatment

In the same article:

"[Marvel] is the worst example of a lot of the problems in the industry," said Sam. "It would be one thing if sometimes it was really bad, sometimes it wasn't... But with Marvel, it seems like every single time it's the same thing. So, one, they tend to be as bad as you're going to get and they're consistently that bad."


It does feel like people are saying "I won't defend them..." before letting their love of Marvel films get in the way of an objective judgement.

[Lord Mandrake]

And that works both ways aswell, people quick to jump on Marvel because "Our very strength invites conflict".

Not quite sure "pixel stress" or whatever that anonymous digital artist quoted quite equates to amazon level abuse either. Your sitting, often at home, clicking a mouse mate and if Marvel weren't giving you work you'd still be in mommas basement making fan art for nothing.

[QDRPHNC]

Not quite sure "pixel stress" or whatever that anonymous digital artist quoted quite equates to amazon level abuse either. Your sitting, often at home, clicking a mouse mate and if Marvel weren't giving you work you'd still be in mommas basement making fan art for nothing.

Yeah, chronic stress and burn-out is such a delight when you're sitting.

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And that works both ways aswell, people quick to jump on Marvel because "Our very strength invites conflict".

Not quite sure "pixel stress" or whatever that anonymous digital artist quoted quite equates to amazon level abuse either. Your sitting, often at home, clicking a mouse mate and if Marvel weren't giving you work you'd still be in mommas basement making fan art for nothing.

Lol defending the ethics and methods of huge corporations and saying this is a two-way thing

[BlodwynPig]

When's the Bananaman universe coming out?

Super Ted versus Super Gran?

[Lord Mandrake]

Are these VFX houses concerned about the working conditions in India when they farm out work to the lowest bidders over there? None of it is ideal but blaming one company when this is clearly an industry/societical problem is a bit glib. If Marvel packed it all up now they'll be fighting over rendering transformers. 

[QDRPHNC]

It's perfectly fair to blame one company, especially when it's an 800lb gorilla - Marvel is in a position to set fair professional standards in the industry, or grind the people they hire into the dirt because it's cheaper that way.

I think you've touched a nerve with me because I work in the design industry and have fully burned out twice in my career (both while sitting and once while working from home, believe it or not). Seriously, you're defending Disney's worker abuse because they make the superhero movies you like. Fucking hell.

[Lord Mandrake]

Yeah Marvel why aren't you taking down capitalism!

I find this whole take quite disingenious actually. can't critique the films beyond, 'the humour is shit' 'they're all the same. Blame them for being a hugely successful comapany working within a capitalist paradigm.

[Lord Mandrake]

It's perfectly fair to blame one company, especially when it's an 800lb gorilla - Marvel is in a position to set fair professional standards in the industry, or grind the people they hire into the dirt because it's cheaper that way.

I think you've touched a nerve with me because I work in the design industry and have fully burned out twice in my career (both while sitting and once while working from home, believe it or not). Seriously, you're defending Disney's worker abuse because they make the superhero movies you like. Fucking hell.

I'm sorry about your experience and my comment about disingenuity was not at you.

[madhair60]

Not quite sure "pixel stress" or whatever that anonymous digital artist quoted quite equates to amazon level abuse either. Your sitting, often at home, clicking a mouse mate and if Marvel weren't giving you work you'd still be in mommas basement making fan art for nothing.

wow

[Crenners]

I don't think most people on here defended crunch burnout at game studios or approve of Amazon workers having to stand at conveyor belts with nappies on so they can piss standing up without taking a toilet break, so I'm not sure why people are getting defensive about Marvel when its practices cause similar issues for FX workers.

Amen, sincerely.

[Mister Six]

I know people who work at Rockstar that have gone through horrific burnout that's left them mentally crushed and even destroyed some of their relationships. "Like it or lump it, be grateful you have a job, it's just clicking a mouse" is some Tory bullshit, and anyone who says that unironically is acting like an absolute arse.

[Crenners]

I started doing a hilarious piss take but re-read the guy's posts and he's beyond pastiche. I can't take the piss any harder than he owned himself.

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

I like the marvel films, but this shit is a much better reason to stop watching them than any of the other arguments put forth in these kind of threads.

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When's the Bananaman universe coming out?

Super Ted versus Super Gran?

Now this I would ignore terrible corporate ethics for.  As long as they don't start trying to shoehorn Jimbo and the Jet Set in.

[Replies From View]

Yeah Marvel why aren't you taking down capitalism!

I find this whole take quite disingenious actually. can't critique the films beyond, 'the humour is shit' 'they're all the same. Blame them for being a hugely successful comapany working within a capitalist paradigm.

The films all being the same is a case in point.  It's not like a McDonald's burger that once you've eaten it you have to buy another if you want one exactly the same.  If you are craving more of the same Marvel film you can literally watch it again with no harm done.