Holy crikey.
https://www.doctorwho.tv/news/?article=russell-t-davies-to-return-as-doctor-who-showrunner (https://www.doctorwho.tv/news/?article=russell-t-davies-to-return-as-doctor-who-showrunner)
QuoteMulti award-winning Russell T Davies will take control of the TARDIS once more as the next Doctor Who showrunner, succeeding Chris Chibnall who departs next year.
Russell T Davies will make an explosive return to screens to celebrate the 60th Anniversary of Doctor Who in 2023, and series beyond. BBC Studios are partnering with Bad Wolf to produce.
Responsible for Doctor Who's revival in 2005, he is credited with propelling the show into a global phenomenon and making it one of TV's biggest hits. His tenure on the show oversaw a surge in popularity enjoying huge acclaim and success. The Doctor won the nation's hearts through his masterful relaunch, which led him to create two spin off series, Torchwood and The Sarah Jane Adventures during that time.
Davies left the show in 2009. A lifelong Doctor Who fan, he has most recently achieved huge success with Years and Years, A Very English Scandal and It's a Sin which won Best New Drama at the National TV Awards this month. Russell T Davies says "I'm beyond excited to be back on my favourite show. But we're time-travelling too fast, there's a whole series of Jodie Whittaker's brilliant Doctor for me to enjoy, with my friend and hero Chris Chibnall at the helm – I'm still a viewer for now."
Chris Chibnall says "It's monumentally exciting and fitting that Doctor Who's 60th anniversary will see one of Britain's screenwriting diamonds return home. Russell built the baton that is about to be handed back to him - Doctor Who, the BBC, the screen industry in Wales, and let's be honest everyone in the whole world, have so many reasons to be Very Excited Indeed about what lies ahead." Piers Wenger, BBC Director of Drama says "As the 13th Doctor prepares to embark on new and extraordinary adventures, the winds of change are blowing... bringing with them news to delight Doctor Who fans across the globe. We are thrilled that Russell is returning to Doctor Who to build on the huge achievements of Chris and Jodie. Thank you to the two of them and the team in Cardiff for all they continue to do for the show and hello Russell, it's wonderful to have you back."
Russell T Davies will make an explosive return to screens to celebrate the 60th Anniversary of Doctor Who in 2023, and series beyond. BBC Studios are partnering with Bad Wolf to produce.
Wait, sorry, just seen this is already addressed in the RTD/Moffat threat, delete if necessary.
CHECK OUT THIS RTDUNCE!
Ugh I'm worse than Chibnalls
The other thread is for retrospective as much as anything so having a separate thread for discussion and speculation isn't a bad thing.
Yes, I think a new 'New RTD' thread is a good idea - I'll pop a link for it in the 2005-2017 thread.
Exactly, which is why I'm choosing this thread to express my complete surprise and mild optimism that Who might go somewhere better again.
I never really clicked with RTD, Moffat much more my cup of tea, but christ, after Chibnall...
My brain has immediately gone to speculation that if RTD didn't come back they were going to put the show to rest for the forseeable, but I have nothing to back that up at all.
Quote from: Jack Shaftoe on September 24, 2021, 04:32:17 PM
My brain has immediately gone to speculation that if RTD didn't come back they were going to put the show to rest for the forseeable, but I have nothing to back that up at all.
Modern equivalent of when Sydney Newman suggested bringing back Troughton to save the show in 1986.
What a fucking shocker tbh.
It should just be RTD and Moffat on a rotating basis, keep everyone happy
In my mind, I was resigned to the idea that the BBC were just letting it run as a zombie franchise with the minimum amount of money and talent needed to produce it, just to keep the syndication cash coming in and that they didn't really give much of a fuck about it any more, ala Top Gear.
So to see them bring RTD back on board proves that they a) realise the ship needed righting and b) do still give a shit about it.
I do wonder if they've actually booted Chibnall in favour of Russ and the whole thing has been stage managed to spare his blushes.
So does this mean Olly Alexander or Billie Piper as the next Dr? Or Julie Hesmondhalgh?
Eh I thought Olly Alexander was the weak link of It's a Sin so wouldn't be that thrilled. A bigger name just to appear for a single series à la Eccleston wouldn't be a bad idea.
Ben Wishaw has got the goods, and he's done great work with RTD before. And maybe this doesn't matter so much anymore, but he's "Doctor-ish"
Any chance they could can the 2022 specials and bring him forward a year?
Any chance they could can the last two series as well and bring him forwards to 2018?
Obviously Chris Chibnall is well shit but imagine being that shit, so unbelievably shit, that they bring in the old guy to fix your mess.... the guy who's already fucked off having fixed it once already.
I'd be mortified.
Quote from: daf on September 24, 2021, 04:26:13 PM
Yes, I think a new 'New RTD' thread is a good idea - I'll pop a link for it in the 2005-2017 thread.
when I followed the link from there to here I immediately forgot what had happened and then I started wandering around with my cock out
DON'T LET IT HAPPEN AGAIN DAF OR I WILL CONVERT YOU INTO A PLASTIC ONE THAT SPUNKS CLINGFILM
Quote from: Chairman Yang on September 24, 2021, 05:07:39 PM
Obviously Chris Chibnall is well shit but imagine being that shit, so unbelievably shit, that they bring in the old guy to fix your mess.... the guy who's already fucked off having fixed it once already.
I'd be mortified.
I don't know whether such a shit person would be able to feel mortified. Chibnall probably hasn't put all these pieces together.
Quote from: Jack Shaftoe on September 24, 2021, 04:32:17 PM
My brain has immediately gone to speculation that if RTD didn't come back they were going to put the show to rest for the forseeable, but I have nothing to back that up at all.
I think that's an entirely reasonable speculation.
DW stopped being must-see television during the Chibnall era (the big viewing figures for Whittaker's first episode don't count, that was always going to be a ratings smash), it just sort of chuntered along without much fanfare. Given how much it costs to produce, the BBC won't have been happy about that. So it stands to reason, in their TV executive minds, that the best way of rectifying that situation is to bring back the writer/producer who revived the show and turned it into a national talking point.*
And I suspect that RTD, although he's too nice and professional to ever admit this, was dismayed by the show's decline in quality and popularity. Like Moffat, he absolutely loves
DW and wants it to continue forever. He wants it to be good and special, as opposed to something that's just
there like
Death in Paradise or
Midsomer Murders.
So in theory at least, it's the ideal outcome for RTD, the BBC and the viewers. Everyone's a winner.
* I don't think the uptown top-ranking BBC nabobs - yer Alan Yentobs and Marmaduke Husseys - will have noticed that Chibnall is a shit hack idiot who doesn't have a clue; all they care about is that one of their flagship shows isn't as successful as it used to be. If Chibnall's mediocrity had somehow clicked with the masses, they would've been perfectly happy.EDIT: That was a very long-winded way of articulating what most of you have already said. Should've checked before posting. Soz.
Quote from: Leo2112 on September 24, 2021, 04:52:47 PM
Eh I thought Olly Alexander was the weak link of It's a Sin so wouldn't be that thrilled. A bigger name just to appear for a single series à la Eccleston wouldn't be a bad idea.
Oh just give me a year with Michael Sheen.
I think it makes sense. RTD brought back the show the last time it was cancelled so it's logical he brings it back after this cancellation. I'm just glad the gap was only five years this time and not sixteen!
Would be cool to see some RTD Who episodes with decent production/art direction. That's one aspect of his era which didn't age particularly well.
Quote from: Deanjam on September 24, 2021, 05:21:02 PM
Oh just give me a year with Michael Sheen.
I don't think we've had a Welsh Doctor yet, have we?
Quote from: daf on September 24, 2021, 05:29:59 PM
I don't think we've had a Welsh Doctor yet, have we?
(Tom's the closest - coming from the old 'capital of North Wales', Liverpool)
Matt Smith recently said he wants Rhys Ifans to be the next Doctor. Sheen would be great too.
Proper delighted by this, once the bafflement died down, and the paranoia that it was one of those "an anonymous source told The Sun that Russell might have possibly had a hypothetical dream in which he considered returning as showrunner but ultimately didn't" stories.
I like that we don't really know what this could be, but whatever it is it'll be great. If it really is just a nostalgic throwback to the RTD era, then that'll at least fit nicely with the 60th anniversary - and his show had so much life to it, it'll be refreshing. It'll be lovely to have the speed of the dialogue back, the sparkle of his ideas, the joy of his characters.
On the other hand, which is even better, I can't imagine this will be the same as before. He obviously approached New Who as the writer he was sixteen years ago, making decisions informed by the classic series and the long gap, as well as what TV was like at the time. He's going to be bringing a lot of different things to his writing this time, and very possibly envisioning it in a completely different way to the way he did in 2005. Didn't he do an interview recently saying that if it had been revived now it would be a big-budget Netflix miniseries thing? It could feel completely different, and have a completely different attitude towards the backstory of the character.
Most importantly, it'll definitely be sticking around in Cardiff now.
What's funny as well is that Children of Earth was an attempt to fix Chibnall's version of Torchwood.
Quote from: BritishHobo on September 24, 2021, 05:34:06 PM
If it really is just a nostalgic throwback to the RTD era, then that'll at least fit nicely with the 60th anniversary - and his show had so much life to it, it'll be refreshing.
Whereas I'd previously not been that bothered about the 60th anniversary (and had actually forgotten it was coming up), I'm proper excited now!
McGann & Lucie-Miller BBC3 spin-off, please! :)
Really fucking happy about this, I've issues with some of RTD's ideas but some of his episodes I absolutely loved, and even at his worst he was a million times better than Chibnall. I'd given up being excited about Who and presumed whoever replaced Chibnall wouldn't exactly set the world on fire, but this is superb news and I can't wait to see what he'll do with the show now.
I thought there might be a tiny chance RTD would come back for the 60th but to have him come back full time was a bit of a shock. It'll be interesting to see what RTD's approach to writing new Who will be.
This does makes the previous statements about "radical change" and "the new generation of Doctor Who" look a bit odd though.
Quote from: Replies From View on September 24, 2021, 05:12:45 PM
I don't know whether such a shit person would be able to feel mortified. Chibnall probably hasn't put all these pieces together.
It almost certainly won't have occurred to him. He'll just amble on obliviously, secure in his delusion that he wrote some good Doctor Who episodes. Although I'm not sure he'll even think that. It's difficult to imagine Chris Chibnall really thinking about anything.
Anyway, I for one welcome back our old Welsh overlord.
Quote from: Midas on September 24, 2021, 05:58:54 PM
This does makes the previous statements about "radical change" and "the new generation of Doctor Who" look a bit odd though.
I suppose it's a radical change in the sense that Chris Chibnall is a terrible writer and RTD isn't. And his return will, hopefully, attract a whole new generation of fans.
Bad Wolf Company confirmed as producers of the new series
https://twitter.com/BadWolf_TV/status/1441407974761635846
QuoteWe are delighted to be joining Russell T Davies on a looped ontological paradox. Where Russell goes, we are proud to follow-and that with BBC Studios, Bad Wolf will be producing the all-new series of Doctor Who. It is a privilege to be asked to support him in Doctor Who's future.
They've made some decent series recently - His Dark Materials, A Discovery of Witches and The Night Of.
Simultaneously delighted by this news and vaguely perturbed. On the one hand, it'll be a Who with great dialogue and vim and ideas again. On the other, it smacks of a desperate move to stop it from falling once more into permanent hiatus. If people are still reticent to take over the show after the shitness of Chibnall, I can't imagine they'll be thrilled to do so after a bunch of fun and funny (with dark/perverse undercurrents) RTD Who episodes.
This is assuming he's sticking around for a while. I assume the 60th is locked on, and at least one more series, but the hunt much be on for his replacement, right?
Just hope he doesn't work himself into the ground again. And that we get another Writer's Tale out of it.
Quote from: Midas on September 24, 2021, 05:58:54 PM
This does makes the previous statements about "radical change" and "the new generation of Doctor Who" look a bit odd though.
My honest guess is that RTD will be the new "safe pair of hands" for only a few years, after Chibnall failed to fill this role.
I suspect a radical change etc is on the horizon, but swapping out Chibnall for RTD in the short term was something that urgently needed to be done.
When Harold Wilson came back for a second time, he said, right, I'm going to let the younger lads do the work now. He desperately needs to bring on some new writers.
Quote from: Replies From View on September 24, 2021, 06:54:57 PM
My honest guess is that RTD will be the new "safe pair of hands" for only a few years, after Chibnall failed to fill this role.
I suspect a radical change etc is on the horizon, but swapping out Chibnall for RTD in the short term was something that urgently needed to be done.
Yeah, a stopgap until they find a replacement. Perhaps with the BBC telling him it is either him doing it or the show is rested until they find the right person to do it.
My guess is the 60th and two series before moving on as that'll have given the BBC enough time to find the right person.
Better that the show is put on hiatus after RTD has (hopefully) re-established the quality, continuity and core principles that viewers should expect, and future reboots should aim for, as opposed to it going on hiatus after Chibnall drives it into the ground and wrecks it's future in the process.
Quote from: Leo2112 on September 24, 2021, 06:15:24 PM
Bad Wolf Company confirmed as producers of the new series
Is this the first 'independent' company to produce it, rather than it being made 'in-house' by BBC Wales (i.e. did Moffatt or Chibnall have their own production companies?)
Quote from: pigamus on September 24, 2021, 06:59:44 PM
When Harold Wilson came back for a second time, he said, right, I'm going to let the younger lads do the work now. He desperately needs to bring on some new writers.
And Winston Churchill.
When he came back the second time he was like "when Harold Wilson gets in I am going to freshen myself up and everyone will think I am so young"
Quote from: Psybro on August 01, 2021, 09:59:01 AM
Can we not get RTD back in? Unlike Moffat, I thought his regular season stories were getting better as time went on. He probably doesn't want to but we can blackmail him.
I'm not too big not to say I absolutely nailed this.
Quote from: Kelvin on September 24, 2021, 07:03:40 PM
Better that the show is put on hiatus after RTD has (hopefully) re-established the quality, continuity and core principles that viewers should expect, and future reboots should aim for, as opposed to it going on hiatus after Chibnall drives it into the ground and wrecks it's future in the process.
Another thought occurs, by the way.
Around the time that RTD agreed the handover to Moffat, I understand that RTD began to allow his successor influence over little details so that the playing pieces would be in place for the transition to be smooth. So fuck knows why, but The Doctor's Daughter ended with Jenny surviving in case Moffat wanted to use her at a later date. There were less shit examples as well, I just can't think of them right now. (Edited to add: Moffat requested for the Daleks not to be used in the 2009 specials so they would have a chance to feel fresh again.)
Anyway, I am mentioning this because maybe the Timeless Children guff sent alarm bells ringing to such an extent that it was decided RTD needed to step in, and now RTD has been allowed to influence the trajectory of the development of that storyline so that it's where he wants it to be when he takes over. I mean how can that
not be the case now?
It's just a thought. Maybe the series 13 development of the Timeless Child bullshit will be influenced more by RTD's wishes than we'll be told.
Harold Wilson's tenure was a real nadir for Doctor Who, in my opinion.
Holy shit, only just seen the news. The BBC's finger must have literally been hovering over the cancel button. Looking forward to RTD leaving again so we can get The Writer's Tale 2 and figure out what went on here.
Quote from: Psybro on September 24, 2021, 07:13:45 PM
I'm not too big not to say I absolutely nailed this.
What did you blackmail him with?
Quote from: Bernice on September 24, 2021, 07:16:50 PM
Harold Wilson's tenure was a real nadir for Doctor Who, in my opinion.
He was furious when Alec Douglas-Home got the Dalek films
Agree that RTD Who 2 will probably be very different to the first time round. Can't wait to see what he's come up with to be honest.
Quote from: Jerzy Bondov on September 24, 2021, 07:58:09 PM
Agree that RTD Who 2 will probably be very different to the first time round. Can't wait to see what he's come up with to be honest.
Yeah I've gone from relief to actual curiosity now, Years and Years had a big smell of Doctor Who to it and RTD seems to have some genuine political opinions, also the world has really gone to shit since he last wrote for the show.
The BIG question is... will Murray Gold be back???
Quote from: pigamus on September 24, 2021, 07:37:10 PM
He was furious when Alec Douglas-Home got the Dalek films
Hee hee 😛
Quote from: Chairman Yang on September 24, 2021, 08:06:32 PM
Yeah I've gone from relief to actual curiosity now, Years and Years had a big smell of Doctor Who to it and RTD seems to have some genuine political opinions, also the world has really gone to shit since he last wrote for the show.
Nothing will date it more than contemporary British politics.
Quote from: Midas on September 24, 2021, 08:10:41 PM
The BIG question is... will Murray Gold be back???
I was thinking this. I doubt it though, as he has only just left. So we are likely going to be in the interesting position of RTD Who without Murray Gold.
I had a friend who went to see a performance of Murray Gold's Doctor Who score performed by the BBC National Orchestra of Wales and apparently when they began playing, it was so soul-shatteringly bombastic the Royal Albert Hall collapsed in on itself and killed everyone in the building. They only managed a single diddly-dum.
A distinctive electronic score would be nice.
Quote from: Chairman Yang on September 24, 2021, 08:06:32 PM
Yeah I've gone from relief to actual curiosity now, Years and Years had a big smell of Doctor Who to it and RTD seems to have some genuine political opinions, also the world has really gone to shit since he last wrote for the show.
This is the thing, I never really got on with S4 and then he had bloody Miracle Day so it's fair to say I was more than ready for Moffat at the time, but everything RTD has done since has been astonishing, he's at the height of his powers.
Quote from: Midas on September 24, 2021, 08:30:06 PM
A distinctive electronic score would be nice.
Keep Segun Akinola then, the one and only decent thing about the Chibnall run.
So what will the timeline be? Jodie & Chibnall bowing out at the end of 2022 after 3 specials followed by 2023 RTD series with the new doctor which could end with the 60th anniversary special?
Quote from: The Roofdog on September 24, 2021, 08:35:06 PM
Keep Segun Akinola then, the one and only decent thing about the Chibnall run.
I dunno, I think his music has been completely unremarkable tbh.
Didn't he turn a blind eye to sexual predator John Barrowman's repeated sexual assaults of female cast and crew?
Quote from: Natnar on September 24, 2021, 08:35:40 PM
So what will the timeline be? Jodie & Chibnall bowing out at the end of 2022 after 3 specials followed by 2023 RTD series with the new doctor which could end with the 60th anniversary special?
The wording wasn't 100% specific but it seemed to me to say that RTD will take over with an anniversary special followed by a full series.
Quote from: madhair60 on September 24, 2021, 08:41:31 PM
Didn't he turn a blind eye to sexual predator John Barrowman's repeated sexual assaults of female cast and crew?
No. Not at all. It was repeated sexual assaults of both male
and female cast and crew.
Quote from: JamesTC on September 24, 2021, 08:44:16 PM
The wording wasn't 100% specific but it seemed to me to say that RTD will take over with an anniversary special followed by a full series.
But would he have the new doctor's first story be the 60th anniversary episode though? I suppose he could have Jodie turn back into a previous Doctor for the 60th and then regenerate at the end.
Quote from: Replies From View on September 24, 2021, 08:17:05 PM
So we are likely going to be in the interesting position of RTD Who without Murray Gold.
I'd be very surprised if he hasn't been approached, at least. Julie Gardner and Jane Tranter are also returning, so it does feel like a 'putting the band back together' situation.
Just don't bloody approach Tennant, because we all know he'd do it.
Quote from: The Roofdog on September 24, 2021, 08:35:06 PM
Keep Segun Akinola then, the one and only decent thing about the Chibnall run.
He's been rubbish so far. Clattering and arpeggios. He scores every scene like they are the building blocks of an exciting heist movie, ramping forever upwards towards a thrilling climax, regardless of what's going on.
Quote from: Natnar on September 24, 2021, 08:35:40 PM
So what will the timeline be? Jodie & Chibnall bowing out at the end of 2022 after 3 specials followed by 2023 RTD series with the new doctor which could end with the 60th anniversary special?
Maybe a full series from RTD before the 60th anniversary special?
Quote from: The Roofdog on September 24, 2021, 08:35:06 PM
Keep Segun Akinola then, the one and only decent thing about the Chibnall run.
I like the depiction of the time vortex, although they've only used it in about two episodes, probably because it costs too much.
Cristobal Tapia de Veer as composer, or is he too odd? I could see him complementing Davies's odder side, but I'm guessing they'll want someone a bit more bombastic and crowd-pleasing.
Quote from: Natnar on September 24, 2021, 08:55:17 PM
But would he have the new doctor's first story be the 60th anniversary episode though? I suppose he could have Jodie turn back into a previous Doctor for the 60th and then regenerate at the end.
Might not have a choice if that is what the BBC want. The 60th doesn't need to be a multi-Doctor story. Just chucking in a load of returning villains and characters would be enough. Save the multi-Doctor story for 2025 when it is the 20th anniversary of new Who and you can get Tennant, Smith and Whittaker all back (Eccleston is unlikely to do it with RTD involved).
Quote from: JamesTC on September 24, 2021, 09:06:18 PM
Eccleston is unlikely to do it with RTD involved
With the BBC involved. They put out a press release in 2005 saying that he was leaving the show due to "tiredness" - making up a quote that they attributed to him. He was furious because no producers wanted to work with him if he was likely to get tired, and he hasn't forgiven the BBC since.
So am i right in thinking that Martha is the only RTD era companion that could back without any complications? Rose is in another universe with Clonedoctor and Donna will explode if she sees the Doctor again or something.
Martha's off with Mickey and I can guarantee he isn't coming back.
Maybe the plan with Bad Wolf Productions producing it is for RTD to do a series or two then hand it over to someone else. The company keeps producing it with RTD above the showrunner.
Ooh!
Surprising news but brilliant. If anyone can unfuck the mess Chibbers made surely he can.
It's funny, when he left I was looking back on his worst stuff like "bah, farting aliens, a trampoline and an Annedroid" and how Moffat would be so much better. But now look back on his era with fondness and I can't think of anyone I'd rather see in charge. Well played, BBC. Time to bring back the charm and excitement!
Let's hope this doesn't turn into Mourinho's second stint at Chelsea.
I almost feel bad for Chibbers now, looking at twitter it's the first time anyone's been excited about Who since shortly after The Woman Who Fell To Earth aired and I haven't seen anyone say it's a bad move, his failure could not be more complete.
Quote from: mothman on September 24, 2021, 09:31:18 PM
Let's hope this doesn't turn into Mourinho's second stint at Chelsea.
little reference for any fans of billiards out there
Quote from: Replies From View on September 24, 2021, 08:59:56 PM
He's been rubbish so far. Clattering and arpeggios. He scores every scene like they are the building blocks of an exciting heist movie, ramping forever upwards towards a thrilling climax, regardless of what's going on.
I really like the synth chord motif that's in a lot of the episodes. I think generally his music's fine, often quite atmospheric, and by far the best theme of all the new ones. With better people in charge, I think he could be really good.
On the whole I want more electronic music and less orchestral. It's Doctor Who. As long as it's not fucking synthwave arpeggios.
Further thoughts since earlier... this is absolutely what the show needs in order to reclaim casual and lapsed fans. And for that I'm glad, even if I don't end up liking it very much. At the same time, it doesn't take a cynic to see this is a
really desperate move from the BBC. It's hard not to see it as a last chance for the show, really. Like JNT at the start of McCoy's era, only it's actually Barry Letts and Terrance Dicks instead. It'll be
really interesting to read about this in ten-to-fifteen years' time. I wonder how close we got to the show being put on hiatus.
Quote from: Cloud on September 24, 2021, 09:29:07 PM
It's funny, when he left I was looking back on his worst stuff like "bah, farting aliens, a trampoline and an Annedroid" and how Moffat would be so much better. But now look back on his era with fondness and I can't think of anyone I'd rather see in charge.
Yeah, he's a much better choice than Moffat, because he knew the only way to bring the show back was a big, broad, colourful, easy watching show that would appeal to average telly viewers as much as it would Who fans and sci-fi nerds. Moffat managed to balance the knowing referencing and long-term continuity with popular storytelling for a while, but I do remember wondering during the Davros two-parter, how many people watching this
really care about a Davros origin story? There's a general correlation between dropping viewing figures and increasing use of fan-service referencing. If anyone can save the show, RTD can.
Quote from: The Roofdog on September 24, 2021, 09:35:22 PM
I almost feel bad for Chibbers now, looking at twitter it's the first time anyone's been excited about Who since shortly after The Woman Who Fell To Earth aired and I haven't seen anyone say it's a bad move, his failure could not be more complete.
The information will not be processing within whatever you could call it. No need to feel bad for him.
Quote from: Replies From View on September 24, 2021, 07:15:11 PM
Another thought occurs, by the way.
Around the time that RTD agreed the handover to Moffat, I understand that RTD began to allow his successor influence over little details so that the playing pieces would be in place for the transition to be smooth. So fuck knows why, but The Doctor's Daughter ended with Jenny surviving in case Moffat wanted to use her at a later date. There were less shit examples as well, I just can't think of them right now. (Edited to add: Moffat requested for the Daleks not to be used in the 2009 specials so they would have a chance to feel fresh again.)
Anyway, I am mentioning this because maybe the Timeless Children guff sent alarm bells ringing to such an extent that it was decided RTD needed to step in, and now RTD has been allowed to influence the trajectory of the development of that storyline so that it's where he wants it to be when he takes over. I mean how can that not be the case now?
It's just a thought. Maybe the series 13 development of the Timeless Child bullshit will be influenced more by RTD's wishes than we'll be told.
I hope you're right as The Timeless Child fills with me anger whenever I hear mention of it and I'll despise Chibnall for its introduction for the rest of my life, but RTD was responsible for hiring the twat in the first place, and does genuinely seem to like him, so I think the best we can hope for is that when he takes the reins again it'll just never be mentioned ever again.
Quote from: Ballad of Ballard Berkley on September 24, 2021, 05:59:14 PM
It almost certainly won't have occurred to him. He'll just amble on obliviously, secure in his delusion that he wrote some good Doctor Who episodes. Although I'm not sure he'll even think that. It's difficult to imagine Chris Chibnall really thinking about anything.
At the moment he's probably thinking it's his brilliant rewriting of the Doctor's backstory that has inspired RTD to come back.
Quote from: dissolute ocelot on September 24, 2021, 04:44:25 PM
So does this mean Olly Alexander or Billie Piper as the next Dr? Or Julie Hesmondhalgh?
I'd imagine they must be thinking in terms of a WOC, at least as a strong possibility, at this point. At any rate, surely it has to be another woman, to prevent a large contingent of toxic male fans on the internet reframing Chibnall's failure as the fault of casting a female Doctor.
Whenever anyone says Olly Alexander I still think of Olly from The Thick of It
Quote from: Replies From View on September 24, 2021, 09:17:55 PM
With the BBC involved. They put out a press release in 2005 saying that he was leaving the show due to "tiredness" - making up a quote that they attributed to him. He was furious because no producers wanted to work with him if he was likely to get tired, and he hasn't forgiven the BBC since.
He's starred in several BBC productions since his stint on Doctor Who, most notably The A Word, Accused and The Shadow Line. His issue isn't with 'Auntie', it's with whatever happened specifically during his time working on Doctor Who.
Yeah it needs to be a woman to show idiots that it can be done right. It'll be Lydia West from It's A Sin and Years and Years, I reckon.
I am actually really delighted to hear this news. RTDs output these last few years has just been outstanding.
Quote from: Malcy on September 24, 2021, 07:31:37 PM
What did you blackmail him with?
Threatened to tell everyone he goes around calling Chibnall his 'friend and hero'.
Quote from: purlieu on September 24, 2021, 09:39:02 PMI do remember wondering during the Davros two-parter, how many people watching this really care about a Davros origin story?
Ha, yeah, I'd started a Doctor Who watching club at my place with some pals, some of whom were only slightly aware of what Who is, and only a couple of us reacted to that big season-opening dramatic moment. Even for big fans of the present show, Davros was in, what, a couple of episodes five or six years earlier? Really bungled.
Quote from: lipsink on September 24, 2021, 10:17:49 PM
Yeah it needs to be a woman to show idiots that it can be done right. It'll be Lydia West from It's A Sin and Years and Years, I reckon.
I am actually really delighted to hear this news. RTDs output these last few years has just been outstanding.
I remember listening to an interview with RTD from around the time that David Tennant said he was leaving, before Matt Smith was announced. The interviewer said something about a woman being cast as the next Doctor, and my memory of it is that RTD said we shouldn't even talk about it because even talking about it makes it more likely to happen. He was dead against it at the time. Not because he is a terrible misogynist. There were reasonable reasons for thinking it was a bad idea. But, when I found the interview it was at the height of the Steven Moffat is a terrible sexist thing and I remember thinking that if he had said the same things he would have been killed.
It might still be on a hard drive somewhere but I probably deleted it and even if I didn't no idea how I'd find it again. I think it was with the person who he did the writer's tale books with. I think it was an interview in front of an audience. But I might be totally misremembering/making this up.
Quote from: Ballad of Ballard Berkley on September 24, 2021, 10:15:42 PM
He's starred in several BBC productions since his stint on Doctor Who, most notably The A Word, Accused and The Shadow Line. His issue isn't with 'Auntie', it's with whatever happened specifically during his time working on Doctor Who.
Well Eccleston said this, so unless he is lying... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbFq37yhKl8
Quote from: Replies From View on September 24, 2021, 11:50:36 PM
Well Eccleston said this, so unless he is lying... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbFq37yhKl8
That's an hour long, so you'll have to specify what he said. Anyway, it doesn't really matter. Eccleston has no qualms about working with the BBC, he just had a bad experience during his time on Doctor Who.
Quote from: Replies From View on September 24, 2021, 11:50:36 PM
Well Eccleston said this, so unless he is lying... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbFq37yhKl8
at what time in the video did he say
this
This is must be some of the greatest, most bizarre unexpected news I've ever heard. Absolutely floored. I'm so happy Doctor Who is going to be good again!
so it was foretold
Quote from: kidsick5000 on July 29, 2021, 04:55:20 PM
Would not be surprised if they got back RTD for one (anniversary) season.
He's been oddly quiet too recently
Quote from: Ballad of Ballard Berkley on September 25, 2021, 12:16:05 AM
That's an hour long, so you'll have to specify what he said. Anyway, it doesn't really matter. Eccleston has no qualms about working with the BBC, he just had a bad experience during his time on Doctor Who.
It's 16 minutes 20 seconds in, when he's asked whether he'll come back for the 60th. He's saying he won't come back to television Who because the BBC invented a quote that made him toxic to producers, but he will do Big Finish and conventions.
Quote from: lipsink on September 24, 2021, 10:17:49 PM
Yeah it needs to be a woman to show idiots that it can be done right. It'll be Lydia West from It's A Sin and Years and Years, I reckon.
I am actually really delighted to hear this news. RTDs output these last few years has just been outstanding.
She's a good actor, but difficult to tell from what I've seen of her if she'd be a good Doctor. I doubt RTD would cast someone who wouldn't be, though. (I still think - although she'd surely be better under a better showrunner, and did improve in S12 - that Jodie Whittaker, though a fine actor, is miscast in this role.)
Eccleston has also said that he doubts he could ever work with RTD again. (https://www.radiotimes.com/tv/sci-fi/doctor-who-christopher-eccleston-russell-t-davies/)
Quote"My relationship with my three immediate superiors – the showrunner, the producer and co-producer – broke down irreparably during the first block of filming and it never recovered,"
...
Asked if Davies was aware of the issues, Eccleston says, "If you're the showrunner, you know everything. That's your job," adding that he "never will have" a working relationship with the screenwriter again.
There's a slim chance we might see what Whittaker would be like written by RTD in the 60th special, of course.
Quote from: Pranet on September 24, 2021, 11:31:17 PMI probably deleted it and even if I didn't no idea how I'd find it again. I think it was with the person who he did the writer's tale books with. I think it was an interview in front of an audience. But I might be totally misremembering/making this up.
I'm convinced I listened to a podcast with Chibnall a while back when he was doing Broadchurch where he said he wasn't that bothered about Doctor Who and only wrote for it because it would impress his kids. Kept waiting for someone to bring it up when he became showrunner. But I can't find it, and like you, I may well have imagined it/misremembered it.
Quote from: Replies From View on September 25, 2021, 06:49:02 AM
It's 16 minutes 20 seconds in, when he's asked whether he'll come back for the 60th. He's saying he won't come back to television Who because the BBC invented a quote that made him toxic to producers, but he will do Big Finish and conventions.
Ta.
Quote from: Jack Shaftoe on September 25, 2021, 10:02:11 AM
I'm convinced I listened to a podcast with Chibnall a while back when he was doing Broadchurch where he said he wasn't that bothered about Doctor Who and only wrote for it because it would impress his kids. Kept waiting for someone to bring it up when he became showrunner. But I can't find it, and like you, I may well have imagined it/misremembered it.
I'd be surprised if that were true, if only because he's a longtime fan and there was of course his infamous appearance on Open Air back in 1986 where he complained about it being cliched around the 2 minute mark. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkCe3owO7wY
Yeah, he's got a similar pedigree as RTD, Moffatt and Gatiss in terms of being a lifelong Who fanboy, although he's the only one of those who hadn't written for it before the revival.
very pleased to read the news. tiny bit worried that his first show back is the 60th anniversary that he doesn't smother the screen with Master clones, cybermen and daleks all having a barney.
anyway. celebrated by making one of those NeuralBlender pictures. Can you tell what it is?
(https://i.imgur.com/bosieXo.png)
Quote from: purlieu on September 25, 2021, 11:22:02 AM
Yeah, he's got a similar pedigree as RTD, Moffatt and Gatiss in terms of being a lifelong Who fanboy, although he's the only one of those who hadn't written for it before the revival.
And he is the only one of those men who lacks any redeeming qualities on any level as a human being.
Quote from: Spoon of Ploff on September 25, 2021, 01:03:23 PM
very pleased to read the news. tiny bit worried that his first show back is the 60th anniversary that he doesn't smother the screen with Master clones, cybermen and daleks all having a barney.
anyway. celebrated by making one of those NeuralBlender pictures. Can you tell what it is?
(https://i.imgur.com/bosieXo.png)
Frog on a chair, innit
Do one with it also wanking
Quote from: madhair60 on September 24, 2021, 08:41:31 PM
Didn't he turn a blind eye to sexual predator John Barrowman's repeated sexual assaults of female cast and crew?
lol do you think fanboys care about this stuff
Quote from: purlieu on September 25, 2021, 11:22:02 AM
Yeah, he's got a similar pedigree as RTD, Moffatt and Gatiss in terms of being a lifelong Who fanboy, although he's the only one of those who hadn't written for it before the revival.
Chibnall didn't want to waste all of his amazing ideas on novels or audios.
I'd love the next Doctor to played by a big, camp and sexy gay like Olly Alexander, tbh. Continue to shake up what the Doctor can be.
Is Mickey coming back? Missed him
Quote from: JamesTC on September 25, 2021, 01:26:11 PM
Chibnall didn't want to waste all of his amazing ideas on novels or audios.
Ironically, they're the perfect place for stuff like the Timeless Child. If it had been a Big Finish story he could have got it out of his system and everyone would have said "yeah, cool idea" and moved on.
Quote from: Kelvin on September 25, 2021, 02:22:43 PM
I'd love the next Doctor to played by a big, camp and sexy gay like Olly Alexander, tbh. Continue to shake up what the Doctor can be.
How about a fat black sumo wrestler
Quote from: purlieu on September 25, 2021, 02:40:10 PM
Ironically, they're the perfect place for stuff like the Timeless Child. If it had been a Big Finish story he could have got it out of his system and everyone would have said "yeah, cool idea" and moved on.
So it looks like the new showrunner announcement was timed for after shooting had finished (presumably on Chibnall's 'specials' for next year). I do wonder if Chibnall has been subject to more managerial oversight for this last season. RTD says he's still a viewer (and Chibnall is great) but, as he's pointed out in the past, he'll cheerfully lie through his teeth if neccessary. Probably wishful thinking, but I'd love it if he's already done some course correction on the series.
At this stage I can only imagine that RTD must have had some influence over series 13 and the course of the Timeless Child.
He wouldn't have been asked to step in, but also patiently wait until Chibnall has finished his own stupid fan fiction trajectory before then fixing it all from scratch in series 14. He will surely have had an influence over where the playing pieces will he sitting before he fully takes over. No? Or am I being too wishful?
Weird we can be having this conversation. What can we hope for? The Master was lying? That's basically it, for me. The Master was trying to manipulate the Doctor to do something mad, so lied. Or he was looking at a fake version of the Matrix, or something, and messing around with the Matrix archive could be a bit of a theme but that's it. Or he misunderstood it because he's a dunce. Anything. There's loads of options but I would like something to be spelled out so it doesn't hang over things and get picked up by another hack showrunner further down the line.
We have to consider the possibility that RTD *likes* the Timeless Child idea. He wasn't above this sort of wankery himself at times - all that "Tempered Schism" bollocks isn't a million miles from it.
Honestly, if Chibnall manages to reveal it is all a big Master plot, I'll let him off some. It would be some amazing trolling. Although if that does happen he'll now be fucked off that everyone will assume it was RTD's idea.
Quote from: Alberon on September 25, 2021, 05:18:10 PM
So it looks like the new showrunner announcement was timed for after shooting had finished (presumably on Chibnall's 'specials' for next year). I do wonder if Chibnall has been subject to more managerial oversight for this last season. RTD says he's still a viewer (and Chibnall is great) but, as he's pointed out in the past, he'll cheerfully lie through his teeth if neccessary. Probably wishful thinking, but I'd love it if he's already done some course correction on the series.
Does this mean RTD will have been on set already with his new Doctor, and filmdd the regeneration?
Quote from: BritishHobo on September 25, 2021, 06:28:00 PM
Does this mean RTD will have been on set already with his new Doctor, and filmdd the regeneration?
Assuming the regeneration happens in the TARDIS (which seems to be the standard way of doing things, as it allows for a closed set and a self-contained scene that doesn't impinge on stories in either direction), they might be able to film that later as a pick-up.
I'm not sure RTD will have had any influence over the Chibnall episodes other than maybe where The Doctor is left at the end of the special (which will almost certainly be in the TARDIS alone).
It doesn't sound like this has been official for very long. Whilst I'm sure discussions have been going on in the background for a while and that Chibnall and RTD would have been talking about it, I don't see RTD making requests of Chibnall before the papers were signed.
First leak from the new series:
(https://metro.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/PRI_197610886.jpg?quality=90&strip=all&zoom=1&resize=540%2C665)
Actual Story (https://metro.co.uk/2021/09/02/man-asked-waitress-to-call-me-in-creepy-note-on-receipt-with-725-tip-15198073/)
Seeing Jodie regenerate is going to be the polar opposite emotional ride from watching Peter regenerated into her. No offence to Jodie, maximum offence to Chibnall.
Oh. OH. I just had a thought. This won't happen by the way. But who did RTD go after first time round? But who said no, and freely admits regretting it? And now does TV and is having quite the late-career renaissance doing so? Hugh Grant.
I suppose all this is the final nail in the coffin of the idea that John Bishop is the new Doctor, which we can all be thankful for.
Chibnall has introduced an infinite fucking Doctors because he is shit so John Bishop could still be a Doctor.
He should get McGann. Why the fuck not. Just for one series even.
Tell you what, if the 60th is an multi-Doctor story and McGann isn't in it, I'm going to write a letter.
Actually fuck McGann, he should get my beloved Pearl Mackie back.
Quote from: Replies From View on September 25, 2021, 05:51:12 PM
At this stage I can only imagine that RTD must have had some influence over series 13 and the course of the Timeless Child.
0% chance of this I reckon
Quote from: pigamus on September 25, 2021, 11:00:14 PM
Actually fuck McGann, he should get my beloved Pearl Mackie back.
We seem to have entered the dreams coming true part of Doctor Who's history so why not both?
Quote from: purlieu on September 25, 2021, 10:56:21 PM
Tell you what, if the 60th is an multi-Doctor story and McGann isn't in it, I'm going to write a letter.
Same here...those two letters will really show them!
DEAR CHEEKY CHOPS
(I bet one of you gimps will get that reference)
Quote from: Alberon on September 25, 2021, 11:03:13 PM
We seem to have entered the dreams coming true part of Doctor Who's history so why not both?
While we're wishing, I actually just want the Capaldi/Mackie/Lucas crew back with Missy for absolutely any length of time whatsoever.
Quote from: mjwilson on September 25, 2021, 11:02:09 PM
0% chance of this I reckon
Why. With Chibnall handing it over, surely discussions would be had. Even on a friendly level. Maybe Chibnall only had an idea for what we saw in series 12, and admitted he needed help to expand it and make it worthwhile, so reached out to RTD.
Remember, RTD corresponded with Moffat to make sure Moffat would be happy with the playing pieces when he took it on.
It's not so far fetched.
https://twitter.com/ChrisWalkerT/status/1441409838953603072?s=20
Quote from: Rev+ on September 26, 2021, 12:40:12 AM
https://twitter.com/ChrisWalkerT/status/1441409838953603072?s=20
He does a good Eccleston and Tennant. His Capaldi is shocking though.
There's elements of him there, but it reminds me of Brydon & Coogan in The Trip arguing over how to do Michael Caine.
Quote from: Replies From View on September 26, 2021, 01:17:44 AM
He does a good Eccleston and Tennant. His Capaldi is shocking though.
Yeah but he's doing Tennant's doctor there not Tennant himself.
Quote from: pigamus on September 25, 2021, 10:54:23 PM
He should get McGann. Why the fuck not. Just for one series even.
I wouldn't rule this out - though as a 'Sarah Jane Adventures' / 'Torchwood' type of spinoff, rather than the main show.
I'm pretty sure he said something during the Lockdown Tweetalong about how he'd have loads of other shows in a Who Universe channel if he was still in charge.
Hang on, I'll see if I can dig out the actual quote . . .
. . . OK, I was wrong - it was in a Radio Times interview :
Quote from: RTD"There should be a Doctor Who channel now. You look at all those new Star Wars and Marvel shows, you think, we should be sitting here announcing The Nyssa Adventures or The Return of Donna Noble, and you should have the Tenth and Eleventh Doctors together in a 10-part series. Genuinely.
"You laugh, but did Star Trek fans ever think they'd be getting a Captain Pike series? Ever? That's insane. The whole science fiction world is so creative and so money making right now, I think your wildest dreams can come true."
https://www.radiotimes.com/tv/sci-fi/doctor-who-marvel-shared-universe/Here's my choices:
The Paternoster Gang - Victorian adventures with Strax & co - perfect for Sunday nights!
The Eighth Doctor Adventures - don't care who he's with - just make it before he's too old!
Quote from: jamiefairlie on September 26, 2021, 04:21:48 AM
Yeah but he's doing Tennant's doctor there not Tennant himself.
I know; I thought it was obvious enough what I meant.
Quote from: Replies From View on September 26, 2021, 12:16:44 AM
Why. With Chibnall handing it over, surely discussions would be had. Even on a friendly level. Maybe Chibnall only had an idea for what we saw in series 12, and admitted he needed help to expand it and make it worthwhile, so reached out to RTD.
Remember, RTD corresponded with Moffat to make sure Moffat would be happy with the playing pieces when he took it on.
It's not so far fetched.
There's a world of difference between "please don't use the Daleks" and "I realised that I couldn't do my job so I asked someone to do it for me".
I hadn't thought of RTD setting up spinoff shows, but of course he will, won't he? All under the Bad Wolf production arm. I can see a Paternoster Gang (god that name is cheesy though) series, if Moffat fancied it for a bit of fun, could be great, Victorian-era romp going in and out of space opera stuff, marvellous.
Yeah, but... none of the spin-offs to date have really set the world on fire, have they? And they're all Companion-based (well, sort of - I don't know what the basis of Class was).
Whereas, say, all the Star Trek shows are still Starfleet-based (or have mostly ex Starfleet in - like ST: PIC). Perhaps they should have another show about another Time Lord, but how to make that interesting?
If Star Trek spin-offs were done the way Who ones were, we'd have had Samuel T. Cogley: Space Lawyer! Quark's Bar! Neelix & Son! Constable Odo Investigates! Which would probably all have been awesome, to be fair. As would the mooted Gary Seven & Isis show. Captain Proton, though, not really sure...
But now they've seen what works, and what doesn't work. I still don't know what the hell Class was all about. Their models now are The Mandelorian and Wandvaision - obviously with nowhere near the budget, but that's fine, it's the imagination and ambition that's important at this stage.
*braces self for a series about the Trump substitute played by that Sex and the City bloke*
Once upon a time, a Martha & Mickey show might have worked. Go for a whole Nick & Nora Charles/Thin Man vibe, only they're investigating aliens etc. in a fun not-looking-to-shag-them-yes-Torchwood-I'm-looking-at-you way. A grown-up-but-not-that-way SJA, sort of.
Quote from: Jack Shaftoe on September 26, 2021, 10:48:30 AM
I hadn't thought of RTD setting up spinoff shows, but of course he will, won't he? All under the Bad Wolf production arm. I can see a Paternoster Gang (god that name is cheesy though) series, if Moffat fancied it for a bit of fun, could be great, Victorian-era romp going in and out of space opera stuff, marvellous.
TBH, rather than wiping out Chibnall's Timeless Child bollocks, I wouldn't put it past him to do a spin-off based on pre-Hartnell Doctors, or whatever that Time Lord organisation was that the Jo Martin Doctor worked for. But he'd do well to keep it out of the main show.
Bit of a fun exchange between The Moff and 'The T' on instagram :
(https://i.imgur.com/AVajyAu.jpg)
Quote from: mjwilson on September 26, 2021, 08:32:58 AM
There's a world of difference between "please don't use the Daleks" and "I realised that I couldn't do my job so I asked someone to do it for me".
Hmm, that's an insulting take on what I was saying - there's a difference between admitting you need guidance and letting someone completely just do your job. RTD and Moffat were in regular contact and RTD did more than that to prepare for Moffat, as I said.
You are forgetting that during his own tenure, Moffat would frequently get in touch with RTD for his views on stories he was writing, for ideas and emotional beats. They are all friends and they are in contact, not simply detached acquaintances being professionally courteous.
It's not completely absurd that Chibnall would get in touch with his friends to rescue him from his self-made hole, especially since RTD would be taking over anyway a few months later. Moffat was in touch with RTD; why wouldn't Chibnall be?
It's also not entirely improbable that
the BBC themselves insisted on RTD having a guiding force behind series 13 to make sure RTD wasn't inheriting a completely irreconcilable mess. It's pretty clear now that they already knew Chibnall wasn't up to the job - whether due to the quality of the show or Chibnall expressing that he couldn't cope, we may never know.
But yeah. No need to be contrary just because I am saying things.
Quote from: mothman on September 26, 2021, 11:17:49 AM(well, sort of - I don't know what the basis of Class was).
And that's how
mothman lost his job as editor of Living Marxism magazine
Quote from: daf on September 26, 2021, 12:45:21 PM
Bit of a fun exchange between The Moff and 'The T' on instagram :
(https://i.imgur.com/AVajyAu.jpg)
I don't get it. Does he mean they get overweight extras to fill the costumes when they return?
Quote from: Replies From View on September 26, 2021, 12:51:43 PM
It's not completely absurd that Chibnall would get in touch with his friends to rescue him from his self-made hole, especially since RTD would be taking over anyway a few months later. Moffat was in touch with RTD; why wouldn't Chibnall be?
It's also not entirely improbable that the BBC themselves insisted on RTD having a guiding force behind series 13 to make sure RTD wasn't inheriting a completely irreconcilable mess. It's pretty clear now that they already knew Chibnall wasn't up to the job - whether due to the quality of the show or Chibnall expressing that he couldn't cope, we may never know.
The latter is quite possible. The former? That would involve Chinball realising he was fucking it up and I'm not sure he's capable of that.
Quote from: Replies From View on September 26, 2021, 12:59:44 PM
I don't get it. Does he mean they get overweight extras to fill the costumes when they return?
He's referring to the fat Duplo Daleks that no one liked.
Quote from: Replies From View on September 26, 2021, 12:59:44 PM
I don't get it. Does he mean they get overweight extras to fill the costumes when they return?
Moffatt is referring to RTD himself. I didn't get it at first, I thought they were referring to Michael Kilgarriff in Attack of the Cybermen where he played The (Fat) Cybercontroller simply because he'd played the role twenty years earlier.
Quote from: Alberon on September 26, 2021, 01:01:32 PM
The latter is quite possible. The former? That would involve Chinball realising he was fucking it up and I'm not sure he's capable of that.
That did occur to me. My ultimate point was simply the hope that RTD has had a guiding influence over series 13 so that Chibnall has been unable to run shitshod all over Doctor Who history on his own.
Whether this is specifically due to Chibnall's own self-awareness or the BBC saying 'fuck this you need RTD to get things back on track' is immaterial.
It's just a hope and also, I believe, not a stretch.
Doubt he will since he's not been gone for anywhere near as long, but I hope Moffat writes an episode.
Still thinking about how crazy this is. Looking at the timescale, it's like if, instead of cancelling Doctor Who in 1989, they'd brought back Hinchcliffe and Holmes. Mental.
Robert "The Two Doctors (1985)" Holmes, as he is known around here.
Quote from: Replies From View on September 26, 2021, 12:51:43 PM
Hmm, that's an insulting take on what I was saying...
But yeah. No need to be contrary just because I am saying things.
Apologies, I wasn't trying to be a dick (on this occasion).
I do think that if you hare hoping that next season is going to be a lot better and have RTD's fingerprints all over it, you're setting yourself up for disappointment.
Quote from: Replies From View on September 26, 2021, 01:08:45 PM
Robert "The Two Doctors (1985)" Holmes, as he is known around here.
Haha, forgot that. To take over I mean, and choose a new Doctor and everything.
Quote from: mjwilson on September 26, 2021, 01:13:39 PM
Apologies, I wasn't trying to be a dick (on this occasion).
I do think that if you hare hoping that next season is going to be a lot better and have RTD's fingerprints all over it, you're setting yourself up for disappointment.
Ah, no worries. I'm probably being a bit sensitive/defensive.
I'm not going to be disappointed, because I have no plan to watch any new Doctor Who until RTD is back in the driver's seat, unless everyone in these threads starts remarking that series 13 has magically fixed things.
That's the one great thing about Chibnall's Doctor Who: you don't have to bother watching it. You glean exactly the same dramatic impact from reading the wikipedia summaries, with the bonus that you waste substantially less time and finish your day infinitely less angry.
Quote from: Ballad of Ballard Berkley on September 26, 2021, 01:02:11 PM
He's referring to the fat Duplo Daleks that no one liked.
...and RTD replying with a passing allusive nod to the the lyric of
Ghosts by
Japan, one of the few successful chart songs ever to be based on late '70s/'80s Doctor Who soundtracks[nb]The glorious days of 'oh, what does that button do? Yeah, that's a nice sprong it will go well with those random squirks we need for the laboratory scene.[nb]The Random Squirks along with The Ascendent Quarks and Biros in Pocket being one of the leading lights of the short lived 'Boffinpop' of the Laboratory Scene in 1981[/nb][/nb].
Quote from: pigamus on September 26, 2021, 12:51:59 PM
And that's how mothman lost his job as editor of Living Marxism magazine
My secret shame, laid bare for all the world to see. Would also have accepted "You are Keir Starmer and I claim my £5."
Overweight Master confirmed then
The only thing that worries me with all this is that we're all getting our hopes up and maybe he'll somehow turn out to be shit. But can't be worse than Chibs surely?
The Matrix being a completely unreliable narrator isn't the worst way around the Timeless child but its something I'd expect from a Bulis EDA not a TV show.
I'm sure we'll still moan about stuff, but RTD is clearly many levels above Chibnall and it's not like his output has dropped in quality lately.
Which Star Wars robot was glad to see Russell T Davies return for a seond stint?
Spoiler alert
RTD2 (R2D2)
Chibnall's 3 (Series) Piss Off
Or C3PO for short.
Quote from: Alberon on September 26, 2021, 03:27:35 PM
I'm sure we'll still moan about stuff, but RTD is clearly many levels above Chibnall and it's not like his output has dropped in quality lately.
Yep. Far as I'm concerned the show already hit rock bottom, so even if RTD's return is a car crash it'll still be an improvement, short of the 60th Anniversary episode being three hours of Barrowman grinding his balls on William Hartnell's grave.
Quote from: daf on September 26, 2021, 12:45:21 PM
Bit of a fun exchange between The Moff and 'The T' on instagram :
(https://i.imgur.com/AVajyAu.jpg)
Hah, that's wonderful!
(And yes, of course it's referring to what
Ballad just wonderfully called the "fat Duplo Daleks". :-) )
Those fatleks being eleven years ago now, it doesn't feel like that can possibly be his intention. I think it's just self-deprecation from a middle-aged man saying the usual "fatter and balder now, etc" thing.
The other readings in this thread show it's not especially clear, in any case.
Quote from: Norton Canes on September 26, 2021, 04:34:06 PM
Which Star Wars robot was glad to see Russell T Davies return for a seond stint?
Spoiler alert
RTD2 (R2D2)
It's doing the rounds.
(https://i.ibb.co/bNMqFn5/IMG-3447.jpg)
There's a recording from about two years ago of some (spam) chat where this joke came up, because someone mispronounced R2D2 as RTD2. Wasn't as timely then, though. Ahead of our times.
I fully admit to having nicked that joke and lay no claim to its invention.
I'm surprised at the relative lack of "second coming" jokes to be honest.
I hope RTD brings back that guy who written 42!
Quote from: daf on September 26, 2021, 07:41:53 AM
I wouldn't rule this out - though as a 'Sarah Jane Adventures' / 'Torchwood' type of spinoff, rather than the main show.
I'm pretty sure he said something during the Lockdown Tweetalong about how he'd have loads of other shows in a Who Universe channel if he was still in charge.
Hang on, I'll see if I can dig out the actual quote . . .
. . . OK, I was wrong - it was in a Radio Times interview :
https://www.radiotimes.com/tv/sci-fi/doctor-who-marvel-shared-universe/
Here's my choices:
The Paternoster Gang - Victorian adventures with Strax & co - perfect for Sunday nights!
The Eighth Doctor Adventures - don't care who he's with - just make it before he's too old!
So basically Big Finish On Screen, then.
I mean, they wouldn't even need new scripts. Just do proper telly adaptations of the best Big Finish stories, there are plenty to be going on with.
I think they'd struggle to fund it at the BBC right now. They've struggled to get one full series per year over the last decade of the main show.
Something like The Paternoster Gang might have an appeal with a non-Who audience, which would be a key in getting a co-production deal which might get it on the air. It seems strange looking back considering how shit it was, but Torchwood had a pretty big audience of non-Who fans particularly in America.
When I saw this news on Friday, I yelped an apt 'WHAT?', and the fact returned to me throughout the weekend like an uncanny moment in a dream.
Obviously this decision speaks of great turmoil behind the scenes, and a desperate need to rescue the show, but I'm thrilled that Doctor Who will have fun episodes and actual characters again, and a showrunner with a bright passion for the show (as opposed to a dreary manager trudging his way through a brief shift, dropping occasional Post-It notes of publicity like a bored salesman in a call centre). I hope RTD doesn't respect his friend Chris too much that he ends up honouring the Timeless Child developments.
I loved Years and Years, Banana, A Very English Scandal, and It's a Sin. Davies is brilliant. His Doctor Who is hit and miss (I think I'm a Moffat fanboy at heart), with some flaws built into the very nature of RTD Era 1 and its preoccupation with romance, but his hits were high and his misses were colourful, and his universe felt huge and populated with weirdness. His abstract vision of the Time War is a good demonstration of his imagination, and I loved his ability to contrast and anchor everything with wonderful kitchen sink stuff.
yes mate
*Barrowman awaits phone call*
Quote from: chveik on September 25, 2021, 01:24:55 PM
lol do you think fanboys care about this stuff
Depressingly not.
Quote from: Butchers Blind on September 27, 2021, 01:11:51 PM
*Barrowman awaits phone call*
(https://i.imgur.com/sOfqUEm.png)
Quote from: Thomas on September 27, 2021, 11:14:43 AM
Obviously this decision speaks of great turmoil behind the scenes, and a desperate need to rescue the show
Not sure I agree with all this talk of turmoil and desperation. Okay so they probably binned Chibnall at relatively short notice when he might have hung around a year or two longer but they've drafted in one of the most in-demand writers in the business and whether the BBC approached him first or he offered his services to them is really neither here or there. They want someone who is at the very least a safe pair of hands and can potentially restore the show to its best and they've got the perfect candidate. If RTD had been struggling to find his mojo over the past few years it might smack of ill-judgement but arguably he's at the peak of his powers right now. He might only do one season after the 60th but by then the BBC will have had three years to find a replacement who has a vision for the show they're happy with. That's the beauty of a time machine - sometimes you can put the future on hold.
He better not come up with anything as awful as Boom Town though.
I still think the plan is for RTD to guide the first year or so as showrunner and then take a more handoff approach as he and Bad Wolf (and the BBC obviously) appoint someone to run it, but he'll still be there to steer the overall direction.
Great turmoil I don't know about, but it's clear this is a course correction from the BBC. I wonder if Chibnall wanted to go on and wasn't offered an extension?
His number one remit will be to get those lost viewers back that have deserted in droves since JWs first episode...that proved there was an audience there but didnt like what was served up...
RTD will need to offer the audience a big hook to grab them...cast a woman? that bolts been shot and squandered by Chinballs...I think he will cast a big name that will make the audience sit up and tune in...they will be a one season and done and then step aside for someone like Lydia West or Tnia Miller or this Olly lad...calling it now...reckon he will cast Hugh Grant...
That sounds as ludicrously unlikely as well... RTD coming back.
I'm just going to pop off to the bookies.
I think he'll keep The Doctor a woman as changing gender again doesn't have the best optics. High Grant will clearly be the new Rani.
Quote from: JamesTC on September 27, 2021, 05:32:03 PM
I think he'll keep The Doctor a woman as changing gender again doesn't have the best optics. High Grant will clearly be the new Rani.
fucking terrible optics i've not a shred of doubt that the new doctor will be a woman again
Or it'll be a bloke of colour. It's why Lenny Henry looked like the most plausible option in the recent round of bookies' odds (and not the omnipresent Kris Marshall), despite him guest-starring in a Chibnall season and being of questionable dramatic chops when compared with Capaldi et al.[nb]At least, as far as I'm aware, I'll admit I've mostly only seen him in comedy roles.[/nb]
Olivia Colman, maybe? She seems game for a laugh, and her last Who role was barely more than a cameo. I'm certain feelers must have been put out to her, at least, although I don't know what her Crown schedule is like.
Gemma Arterton expressed interest in being The Doctor, but has said she won't take over from Jodie.
But I imagine they'll be hitting up anyone who's a big star, national treasure or young and attractive woman/male POC. Ideally someone who clocks all three, although I'm not sure who that might be.
Or... Paul McGann?
Quote from: Mister Six on September 27, 2021, 05:40:56 PM
Or it'll be a bloke of colour. It's why Lenny Henry looked like the most plausible option in the recent round of bookies' odds (and not the omnipresent Kris Marshall), despite him guest-starring in a Chibnall season and being of questionable dramatic chops when compared with Capaldi et al.[nb]At least, as far as I'm aware, I'll admit I've mostly only seen him in comedy roles.[/nb]
Olivia Colman, maybe? She seems game for a laugh, and her last Who role was barely more than a cameo. I'm certain feelers must have been put out to her, at least, although I don't know what her Crown schedule is like.
I doubt they could get Colman now, she's too famous and busy to be tied down to Who.
Lenny's definitely got drama chops so I reckon he could pull it off, I did wonder if he'd be in the running as Chibnall's doctor as they'd worked together on Broadchurch. But he got the crap Bond villain part instead.
Colman being busy seems to be a bigger block than her being famous. She doesn't strike me as the sort who'd view being The Doctor as beneath her.
Maybe it will be Hugh Grant, but only for one series, then swapping over to a woman/POC afterwards. Although I suppose that would require Davies to definitely sign on for at least 2 and probably (to avoid giving the second actor short shrift or imposing on the new showrunner) 3 series.
Wonder if they'll take this opportunity to restructure the showrunner role into something more sustainable, like the old producer/head writer pairings? Since having it as just one job is clearly unattractive to most...
Hugh Grant would be great. Anyone who's seen him in fairly recent things such as Paddington 2 and RTD's A Very English Scandal will be aware that he's a fine, versatile character actor who, partly through his own fault, was typecast for years as that bumbling gosh golly crikey rom-com version of himself. Turns out there was more to him than that all along.
But I agree, the next Doctor has to be a woman. Casting a man will look like an outright rejection of Whittaker - she doesn't deserve that at all - and provide fuel for all those septic arseholes who think Doctor Who has gone downhill because one of those wimmins is starring in it.
Quote from: Mister Six on September 27, 2021, 05:40:56 PMGemma Arterton expressed interest in being The Doctor, but has said she won't take over from Jodie.
Jesus Christ, I don't think I could take Gemma Arterton larking about in a big coat being the Doctor, it would be like someone reached into my brain and made all my fantasies come true. It would be too much, like Charlie Brown finally getting to kick that football, it would seem cool at the time, but the terrible emptiness that would follow.
I think Hugh Grant, in particular, though I'm sure he'd do a great job in the role, is a bit too stereotypical-privileged-white-male to be a good choice at the moment.
Quote from: Jack Shaftoe on September 27, 2021, 07:00:14 PM
Jesus Christ, I don't think I could take Gemma Arterton larking about in a big coat being the Doctor, it would be like someone reached into my brain and made all my fantasies come true. It would be too much, like Charlie Brown finally getting to kick that football, it would seem cool at the time, but the terrible emptiness that would follow.
Like that day we all get to see our best mate's dad shaving when we're kids. We dream about it for years, then the truth unveils itself and strips our lives back to square one.
So cruel.
Quote from: olliebean on September 27, 2021, 07:06:40 PM
I think Hugh Grant, in particular, though I'm sure he'd do a great job in the role, is a bit too stereotypical-privileged-white-male to be a good choice at the moment.
Absolutely, he'd be the wrong choice at this particular moment in time (and space).
Gosh, Hugh Grant you say? Now there's an idea...
Quote from: mothman on September 25, 2021, 09:17:07 PM
Oh. OH. I just had a thought. This won't happen by the way. But who did RTD go after first time round? But who said no, and freely admits regretting it? And now does TV and is having quite the late-career renaissance doing so? Hugh Grant.
As for the optics, what is more important? Getting in the "ultra-woke" choice (as you just know it will be called by those cunts in the press), or casting someone that will make people want to watch the show again? Sooner or later there will be another white bloke as the Doctor. And when there is, they'll say the same things. If the show lasts that long...
Yeah, sooner or later there will be another white posh man Doctor who ticks all the boxes for Edwardian Gent yet again. Right now we haven't had a decent stint yet with a woman Doctor, so let's try that first.
Believe it or not you could probably have an "ultra woke choice" (as you have chosen to label this) who also makes people want to watch the show again. It's not the case that the show will only succeed if it serves up stereotypes and parodies of itself.
Yeah but regardless of what the precise words used will be, I'm not wrong though - about their intent and motives - am I?
Quote from: mothman on September 27, 2021, 07:55:51 PMGosh, Hugh Grant you say? Now there's an idea...
Isn't this where... ...we came in? :-)
Quote from: Lord Spong on March 05, 2004, 11:55:12 AMIf not [McGann], then I think Hugh Grant would be an inspired choice.
(From the top of page 2 of the first-ever new-Who thread!!)
Quote from: mothman on September 27, 2021, 10:29:15 PM
Yeah but regardless of what the precise words used will be, I'm not wrong though - about their intent and motives - am I?
Not clear what you think their intent or motives are, but swapping back immediately after Jodie would absolutely give the message that women cannot successfully be "The Doctor" and would give the impression that this is the Beeb's official stance (rather than just "Ooh, Hugh Grant is popular"). So yeah, they can't back down now without giving that message.
And as Replies says, "woman actor" and "someone who makes people want to watch the show" are not mutually exclusive.
Emma Thompson, then?
Quote from: Jack Shaftoe on September 27, 2021, 07:00:14 PM
Jesus Christ, I don't think I could take Gemma Arterton larking about in a big coat being the Doctor, it would be like someone reached into my brain and made all my fantasies come true. It would be too much, like Charlie Brown finally getting to kick that football, it would seem cool at the time, but the terrible emptiness that would follow.
If Gemma Arterton were cast as the Doctor, my partner would give me the same look she gives whenever I suggest we watch something that
happens to star Karen Gillan. A weary glance to camera.
Quote from: Thomas on September 28, 2021, 09:38:33 AM
If Gemma Arterton were cast as the Doctor, my partner would give me the same look she gives whenever I suggest we watch something that happens to star Karen Gillan. A weary glance to camera.
Are
you the camera in this sequence? I am finding it difficult to reconcile.
Quote from: Mister Six on September 27, 2021, 11:20:00 PM
Not clear what you think their intent or motives are, but swapping back immediately after Jodie would absolutely give the message that women cannot successfully be "The Doctor" and would give the impression that this is the Beeb's official stance (rather than just "Ooh, Hugh Grant is popular"). So yeah, they can't back down now without giving that message.
And as Replies says, "woman actor" and "someone who makes people want to watch the show" are not mutually exclusive.
Yes, it will seal in the idea that Jodie is the exception that proves the rule, or that the BBC has caved and we might never get another woman again, but there's still a chance they'll do it under a sort of wooly minded "well now it can be anyone, it would be strange to be a woman twice in a row" faux egalitarian thing.
If it was Hugh Grant it wouldn't even just be swapping back from a woman to a man - he's the very definition of a white posh English bloke with floppy hair - basically the TV Movie stereotype version of the Doctor. It wouldn't even be subtle.
Maybe it'll be a woman who is big on UK TV, like your Suranne Jones (already been in it), Katherine Kelly (been in Class), Lesley Sharp (already been in it), Nicola Walker (been in Big Finish), Anna Maxwell Martin (already been in it), Keeley Hawes (already been in it), MyAnna Buring (already been in it). Yeah they're all white I know.
Michaela Coel might have done a season with RTD, but she's off filming the next Black Panther film and is probably too big for Doctor Who already.
I do suspect it'll be a bigger name than Jodie Whittaker, because they will want the casting to be part of the headline-grabbing course correction. I'd love it to be a distinguished older women - somebody with dignity and wisdom rather than surface sex appeal, not that these are mutually exclusive, but I am thinking along the lines of Murder She Wrote for some reason. I think that would be a good model.
Shamima Begum?
Quote from: Alberon on September 28, 2021, 12:08:59 PM
Michaela Coel might have done a season with RTD, but she's off filming the next Black Panther film and is probably too big for Doctor Who already.
I don't think anyone is too big for Doctor Who, but certainly younger actors who are trying to make it in Hollywood would consider it a look back. It might be another reason for older famous actors to be more likely. Peter Capaldi, for example, didn't think the show was beneath him, despite all the work he has done. (Yes he has been a lifelong fan, but that needn't define this.)
Quote from: Replies From View on September 28, 2021, 12:11:16 PM
I do suspect it'll be a bigger name than Jodie Whittaker, because they will want the casting to be part of the headline-grabbing course correction. I'd love it to be a distinguished older women - somebody with dignity and wisdom rather than surface sex appeal, not that these are mutually exclusive, but I am thinking along the lines of Murder She Wrote for some reason. I think that would be a good model.
Angela Lansbury is still alive. She's 95 so there might be less running about than normal, but she's still around.
Quote from: Replies From View on September 28, 2021, 12:11:16 PM
I do suspect it'll be a bigger name than Jodie Whittaker, because they will want the casting to be part of the headline-grabbing course correction. I'd love it to be a distinguished older women - somebody with dignity and wisdom rather than surface sex appeal, not that these are mutually exclusive, but I am thinking along the lines of Murder She Wrote for some reason. I think that would be a good model.
I think this is where they'll go. Gillian Anderson or GTFO.
Graciously Traditional Flying Object
I'm guessing a certain forum member isn't a fan as they've not been in here suggesting Jodie Comer.
Miriam Margolyes has a bit of Tom Baker in her, but I think she's living in Australia most of the time these days, so probably wouldn't be available. *
- - - - -
* (if she wanted to do it, of course - she might think it's just a load of silly rubbish!)
Quote from: olliebean on September 28, 2021, 12:31:35 PM
I'm guessing a certain forum member isn't a fan as they've not been in here suggesting Jodie Comer.
I don't want somebody I fancy to be The Doctor. It would be like dreaming of a snog with William Hartnell.
Quote from: JamesTC on September 28, 2021, 01:15:12 PM
I don't want somebody I fancy to be The Doctor. It would be like dreaming of a snog with William Hartnell.
Pointless because those are ten a penny
Quote from: daf on September 28, 2021, 12:53:54 PM
Miriam Margolyes has a bit of Tom Baker in her.
I heard he did get about in the 70s.
Quote from: The Roofdog on September 28, 2021, 12:25:21 PM
Gillian Anderson or GTFO.
Could definitely get behind this.
Also I'm all for Tilda Swinton still.
T'Nia Miller does seem like a serious contender, I'd say, though.
God, Tilda Swinton would be a dream come true. Gillian Anderson likewise - she's said she wants to do more comedy, so this seems right up her street. And she's British enough to not trigger my "no foreign Doctors" moaning, but American enough to maybe have some appeal over there.
Quote from: Alberon on September 28, 2021, 12:08:59 PM
Michaela Coel might have done a season with RTD, but she's off filming the next Black Panther film and is probably too big for Doctor Who already.
Nah, I can't see her bothering to star in any TV show she's not also writing. Maybe a guest star turn if she's a fan, but devoting a year to someone else's creative vision would be a bit of a backwards step in a newly burgeoning career. Save that for when you're 40 and comfortably established, I reckon.
Quote from: Jerzy Bondov on September 28, 2021, 12:04:36 PM
Maybe it'll be a woman who is big on UK TV, like your Suranne Jones (already been in it), Katherine Kelly (been in Class), Lesley Sharp (already been in it), Nicola Walker (been in Big Finish), Anna Maxwell Martin (already been in it), Keeley Hawes (already been in it), MyAnna Buring (already been in it). Yeah they're all white I know.
Colin Baker, Lalla Ward, Capaldi and Gillan had all previously been in Who (and spin-offs, in Capaldi's case) before their turns as The Doctor or a companion, of course.
Tennant was also in Big Finish and Scream of the Shalka before playing The Doctor.
I guarantee Judi Dench's agent has fielded calls about this.
Might be a mad idea but if the BBC do want a big name to pull in viewers, they could always have the big name just for the 60th.
In fact a story about a newly regenerated Doctor being forced to sacrifice themselves so soon could have a certain impact. Then again, now regeneration is meaningless and The Doctor is a secret alien who can regenerate an infinite amount of times, it probably wouldn't have the impact it might once have had.
Plus John Hurt's incarnation was that very thing, with the bonus of being everything it was: a repressed bridge between classic and new eras. No mayfly Doctor from this point can possibly have an equal impact.
Just cast a famous person as the Doctor if you want to go that way again. The BBC have the option of spending enough money to save the show or not.
Quote from: Mister Six on September 28, 2021, 03:18:04 PM
Colin Baker, Lalla Ward, Capaldi and Gillan had all previously been in Who (and spin-offs, in Capaldi's case) before their turns as The Doctor or a companion, of course.
I only noted it because it was funny to me that I'm seemingly incapable of thinking of actors who haven't been in Doctor Who. I'd forgotten MyAnna Buring (The Impossible Planet) and Anna Maxwell Martin (The Long Game) had already been in it, thought they were good picks.
Going to suggest Ruth Wilson now. More famous than Jodie, not above doing sci-fi on the BBC, interesting and good actor.
Quote from: JamesTC on September 28, 2021, 03:29:12 PM
Then again, now regeneration is meaningless and The Doctor is a secret alien who can regenerate an infinite amount of times, it probably wouldn't have the impact it might once have had.
the fact that regeneration
is now weightless and can happen forever fits terribly with the fact that in later seasons regeneration behaves like a walking atom bomb, so there's no logical reason in-universe why the doctor shouldn't be using it frequently a la wiping out a dalek fleet in time of the doctor
This is presumably one of many things RTD is sensitive to and will hopefully fix.
He could take the approach that he did writing Tennant - that the Doctor might now have infinite lives but it still feels like he's dying and some other guy is waltzing off in his trousers.
Would perfectly explain their reluctance to do it every week.
Maybe this is why Phoebe Waller-Bridge stepped away from that "Mr and Mrs Smith" thing.
Quote from: Famous Mortimer on September 28, 2021, 05:34:37 PM
Maybe this is why Phoebe Waller-Bridge stepped away from that "Mr and Mrs Smith" thing.
i'm going to kill myself
Quote from: GoblinAhFuckScary on September 28, 2021, 04:36:14 PM
the fact that regeneration is now weightless and can happen forever fits terribly with the fact that in later seasons regeneration behaves like a walking atom bomb, so there's no logical reason in-universe why the doctor shouldn't be using it frequently a la wiping out a dalek fleet in time of the doctor
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kF_vOyo0H5Y
Quote from: Mister Six on September 28, 2021, 03:18:04 PM
Colin Baker, Lalla Ward, Capaldi and Gillan had all previously been in Who (and spin-offs, in Capaldi's case) before their turns as The Doctor or a companion, of course.
And Freema.
And Peter Purves.
Quote from: chveik on September 28, 2021, 06:48:23 PM
*looks anxiously at the camera*
(https://i.imgur.com/yb42cTN.png)
crass thing to say tho sorry
Not a Fleabag fan then?
It should be a woman (prefereably OC) just to annoy all the "Hooray, now it won't be woke any more!" Ian Levine disciples. Who of course, were all the people doing the "gay agenda" whining in 2005.
Quote from: Replies From View on September 26, 2021, 05:17:01 PM
Those fatleks being eleven years ago now, it doesn't feel like that can possibly be his intention. I think it's just self-deprecation from a middle-aged man saying the usual "fatter and balder now, etc" thing.
Isn't it part self-deprecation, part a gentle "ha ha, you did the Dalek redesign that nobody liked" dig?
if there's something Who needs less of it's posh twats. wallers-bridge is fucking landed gentry
Quote from: Gurke and Hare on September 28, 2021, 08:20:47 PM
It should be a woman (prefereably OC) just to annoy all the "Hooray, now it won't be woke any more!" Ian Levine disciples. Who of course, were all the people doing the "gay agenda" whining in 2005.
Isn't it part self-deprecation, part a gentle "ha ha, you did the Dalek redesign that nobody liked" dig?
Far more likely to have meant the Fat Controller imo
Quote from: Gurke and Hare on September 28, 2021, 08:20:47 PM
Isn't it part self-deprecation, part a gentle "ha ha, you did the Dalek redesign that nobody liked" dig?
This thread has shown nobody can agree on this, so I can't say one way or the other. It's definitely RTD saying "yes we returning villains always gain a little in the girth department" but whatever else he's referring to we may never settle on.
Quote from: Jerzy Bondov on September 28, 2021, 04:03:29 PM
I only noted it because it was funny to me that I'm seemingly incapable of thinking of actors who haven't been in Doctor Who. I'd forgotten MyAnna Buring (The Impossible Planet) and Anna Maxwell Martin (The Long Game) had already been in it, thought they were good picks.
To be fair, Doctor Who has probably had about 60 per cent of the UK's currently active actors in it at some point. Throw in the Harry Potter and Tolkien films and you'll probably have all of them except the actual children. And Idris Elba.
Hm.
Idris Elba?
Quote from: Mister Six on September 28, 2021, 03:18:04 PM
Colin Baker, Lalla Ward, Capaldi and Gillan had all previously been in Who (and spin-offs, in Capaldi's case) before their turns as The Doctor or a companion, of course.
If they're going to pick a woman who has already appeared in Who then it should be Rachael Stirling.
Quote from: Mister Six on September 28, 2021, 03:18:04 PMColin Baker, Lalla Ward, Capaldi and Gillan had all previously been in Who (and spin-offs, in Capaldi's case) before their turns as The Doctor or a companion, of course.
Quote from: mjwilson on September 28, 2021, 07:07:02 PM
And Freema.
Quote from: pigamus on September 28, 2021, 07:18:08 PM
And Peter Purves.
Ian Marter too. Could possibly also include Nicholas Courtney if semi-regulars count.
Quote from: Jerzy Bondov on September 28, 2021, 04:03:29 PM
Going to suggest Ruth Wilson now. More famous than Jodie, not above doing sci-fi on the BBC, interesting and good actor.
Going forward, I am never not going to be confusing Ruth Wilson and Ruth Jones, so I really had to think about this one for a minute.
Quote from: Ambient Sheep on September 27, 2021, 11:09:45 PM
Isn't this where... ...we came in? :-)
(From the top of page 2 of the first-ever new-Who thread!!)
(Yeah, but I suggested Grant afresh, I'm aware he's been in the frame before, silly! ;-)
Quote from: Ja'moke on September 28, 2021, 08:45:46 PM
If they're going to pick a woman who has already appeared in Who then it should be Rachael Stirling.
Or Anna Maxwell Martin.
Actually, I think RTD should go full‐on and play the Doctor himself.
Quote from: mothman on September 28, 2021, 08:52:05 PM(Yeah, but I suggested Grant afresh, I'm aware he's been in the frame before, silly! ;-)
I know! I just thought it was amusing that 17 years on he's still getting mentioned!
Quote from: Ballad of Ballard Berkley on September 28, 2021, 09:09:11 PMActually, I think RTD should go full‐on and play the Doctor himself.
"Quel dommage, Davros."
Quote from: olliebean on September 28, 2021, 10:06:13 PM
"Quel dommage, Davros."
And then he fires beams out of his eyes.
Quote from: Ballad of Ballard Berkley on September 28, 2021, 09:09:11 PM
Or Anna Maxwell Martin.
Actually, I think RTD should go full‐on and play the Doctor himself.
He's going to let Gatiss have that honour.
Quote from: GoblinAhFuckScary on September 28, 2021, 08:21:20 PM
if there's something Who needs less of it's posh twats. wallers-bridge is fucking landed gentry
she's the voice of our generation
Surely this is the project that can get Joe Don Baker out of retirement.
Go different species, really shake things up. You can train dogs to do stuff, "What's that Doctor? A Dalek has fallen down the well?"
Give it to Sean Pertwee, playing it in the style of Alfred from Gotham.
I know he doesn't want to, but tough. It's his role.
A friend says there's "A credible memo" going around suggesting it'll be Lydia West, but after a brief search the only thing I've found is that someone on Gallifrey Base claims to have seen a leaked email, so it's probably just pure speculation.
Quote from: Butchers Blind on September 29, 2021, 08:02:53 AM
Go different species, really shake things up. You can train dogs to do stuff, "What's that Doctor? A Dalek has fallen down the well?"
I reckon you're on to something here, and 2013's A Talking Cat shows we have the technology to make realistic animal mouth movement. https://youtu.be/Y-h-KpG2tHM?t=57
Why not just give it to Ian Botham in the style of a blacked-up Patrick Troughton. Seems like the most natural route of least resistance.
Quote from: Mister Six on September 28, 2021, 03:18:04 PMColin Baker, Lalla Ward, Capaldi and Gillan had all previously been in Who (and spin-offs, in Capaldi's case) before their turns as The Doctor or a companion, of course.
Don't know if it counts, but Lydia West has done a Big Finish. I think it was one of the ones without the Doctor in it, though.
I must say I am VERY against the idea of Olly Alexander being the Doctor, unfortunately this is due to my prejudice against people named Olly
Quote from: Small Man Big Horse on September 29, 2021, 11:08:03 AM
A friend says there's "A credible memo" going around suggesting it'll be Lydia West, but after a brief search the only thing I've found is that someone on Gallifrey Base claims to have seen a leaked email, so it's probably just pure speculation.
There's an otherwise quite listenable YouTuber who keeps obstinately posting rumours under the banner "leaks". He even starts these videos with a little response to people who tell him he should label them as "rumours" - "I have always called them 'leaks' and people will be confused if I change it now" or words to that effect.
Deeply annoying clickbait malarkey. Wish he'd stop.
Quote from: Jerzy Bondov on September 29, 2021, 11:44:16 AM
I must say I am VERY against the idea of Olly Alexander being the Doctor, unfortunately this is due to my prejudice against people named Olly
How about a follow up to "The Doctor's Wife" with Olly Alexander as the TARDIS. It would work especially well if the Doctor is a lady at the time.
I had a leak at the BBC once!! (went for a wee there) (in my pants) (while laughing in the audience for a recording of Alan Carr's Celebrity Ding Dong)
Quote from: Jerzy Bondov on September 29, 2021, 11:46:43 AM
I had a leak at the BBC once!! (went for a wee there) (in my pants) (while laughing in the audience for a recording of Alan Carr's Celebrity Ding Dong)
And did the title of the show fully prepare you for the microphone in the toilet?
I think they should go full-on meta and have the Doctor play the Doctor.
Quote from: Jerzy Bondov on September 29, 2021, 11:44:16 AM
I must say I am VERY against the idea of Olly Alexander being the Doctor, unfortunately this is due to my prejudice against people named Olly
Oi![nb]Oi![nb]Oi![/nb][/nb]
Quote from: purlieu on September 29, 2021, 11:49:19 AM
I think they should go full-on meta and have the Doctor play the Doctor.
I'm sure Chibnall already has that sorted for the BBC centenary thing
Quote from: olliebean on September 29, 2021, 11:49:39 AM
Oi![nb]Oi![nb]Oi![/nb][/nb]
Olly with a 'y'
Oily with an 'oi'
I hope this helps
If DWM celebrate RTD's return with the headline 'change, my dear - and it seems not a moment too soon' I might just shell out for a copy.
Quote from: Thomas on September 29, 2021, 11:53:50 AM
If DWM celebrate RTD's return with the headline 'change, my dear - and it seems not a moment too soon' I might just shell out for a copy.
One day I shall come back...
Quote from: Ja'moke on September 28, 2021, 08:45:46 PM
If they're going to pick a woman who has already appeared in Who then it should be Rachael Stirling.
Now, I know this might sound a bit mental but I think it would be interesting if they can pull it off: Billy Piper?
Quote from: MojoJojo on September 29, 2021, 01:34:24 PM
Now, I know this might sound a bit mental but I think it would be interesting if they can pull it off: Billy Piper?
Yeah, she'd be great. I'd be up for that
Oooh, Kathryn Hahn
Sally Phillips.
Quote from: Famous Mortimer on September 29, 2021, 02:24:47 PM
Oooh, Kathryn Hahn
I still don't think a non-UK Doctor is right. It's the closest I get to patriotism.
Gillian Anderson is about 50% British. That's as far as I'll go
I just remembered that RTD episode of DW where that fella ended up having oral sex with a paving slab.
Amazing to have him back on board again.
Quote from: Butchers Blind on September 29, 2021, 02:44:59 PM
I just remembered that RTD episode of DW where that fella ended up having oral sex with a paving slab.
Amazing to have him back on board again.
I was fucking livid about that at the time but now a sequel where he shags the slab over and over for 42 minutes would be just the tonic we need after the Chibnall era
Can't help but feel that thrusting into a concrete slab would create a certain level of unwanted friction.
Quote from: Jerzy Bondov on September 29, 2021, 03:17:38 PM
I was fucking livid about that at the time but now a sequel where he shags the slab over and over for 42 minutes would be just the tonic we need after the Chibnall era
I hated that ending, but it'll be good to have completely mad, unpredictable dark shit back as a possibility after years of bland, obvious, unremarkable plotting.
Quote from: Jerzy Bondov on September 29, 2021, 03:17:38 PM
I was fucking livid about that at the time but now a sequel where he shags the slab over and over for 42 minutes would be just the tonic we need after the Chibnall era
Can't believe they never got round to merchandising this - would make the ideal Christmas pressie for the lonely Dr Who fan!
No point after Blue Peter already showed everyone how to make their own with a paving slab and a fleshlight.
Quote from: Replies From View on September 29, 2021, 11:48:26 AM
And did the title of the show fully prepare you for the microphone in the toilet?
(https://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/1/590x/Guy-Goma-668831.jpg)
Going by Guy's reaction, probably not.
I'm not sure any of you guys follow this guy but for me he kinda epitomises everything that's wrong with the whole 'Doctor Who is too woke' thing. The guy is a literal stupid shit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgsQaVVLWXo
Urgh god, that bloke is poisonous - a complete rotter!
Quote from: JamesTC on September 29, 2021, 03:23:16 PM
Can't help but feel that thrusting into a concrete slab would create a certain level of unwanted friction.
she would craft her concrete mouth into an accommodating shape remember
Quote from: Huxleys Babkins on September 29, 2021, 04:29:41 PM
No point after Blue Peter already showed everyone how to make their own with a paving slab and a fleshlight.
Saved Christmas in our household yet again, that year.
I reckon he should do a Seth Mcfarlane and just play the Doctor himself
But the alternate species idea is good. How about some kind of furry! The Doctor's a Protogen now, beep boop
go full woke and get a marxist doctor like maxine peake
Quote from: chveik on September 30, 2021, 01:42:14 AM
go full woke and get a marxist doctor like maxine peake
marxine peake she is called
Quote from: canted_angle_again on September 29, 2021, 10:01:01 PM
I'm not sure any of you guys follow this guy but for me he kinda epitomises everything that's wrong with the whole 'Doctor Who is too woke' thing. The guy is a literal stupid shit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgsQaVVLWXo
I hope RTD casts another woman just to keep these babies miserable. A trans woman preferably, they'll love that.
Quote from: canted_angle_again on September 29, 2021, 10:01:01 PM
I'm not sure any of you guys follow this guy but for me he kinda epitomises everything that's wrong with the whole 'Doctor Who is too woke' thing. The guy is a literal stupid shit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgsQaVVLWXo
I don't follow him (ugh, the very idea!) but I did see another one of his videos where he was literally screaming about how the Doctor can't be a woman.
I'd done a YouTube search to see what people were saying about the RTD news, and at least half the videos that came up featured men ranting about "wokeness" during the Chibnall era.
Quote from: pigamus on September 30, 2021, 07:50:17 AM
I hope RTD casts another woman just to keep these babies miserable. A trans woman preferably, they'll love that.
A Crying Game in Space and Time
Quote from: chveik on September 30, 2021, 01:42:14 AM
go full woke and get a marxist doctor like maxine peake
FOR REAL YES
AUTHOR OF GORMANGHAST TRILOGY TO PLAY NEXT INCARNATION OF THE DOCTOR
why thank you, The Sun headline - your literary references are so up your own street
What if Suranne Jones were to become the first actor to play both the Doctor and the TARDIS
Quote from: olliebean on September 29, 2021, 11:43:55 AMLydia West has done a Big Finish.
They've all done a big finish by the time... etc
Quote from: pigamus on September 30, 2021, 12:07:09 PM
What if Suranne Jones were to become the first actor to play both the Doctor and the TARDIS
Will she be able to enter herself through her own console?
As if it needed confirming, John Barrowman won't be back. Been sacked by ITV from Dancing on Ice and some sort of sexual misconduct claims have surfaced.
That's pretty old news on the misconduct claims front, isn't it? Or is it new claims that have come out?
I had a Google after reading that post and no, it's just the old stuff. Here's the Mirror's take:
https://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/john-barrowman-wont-appear-judge-25129308
Which links back to a story from July that had some interesting quotes I hadn't seen before:
https://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/john-barrowman-given-second-chance-24579154
QuoteBarrowman, who lives in California with his husband Scott Gill, says his flashing antics stopped overnight after he was given a dressing down by executive producer Julie Gardner, who'd received a complaint. "My antics had come to her attention and she told me I should rein in my behaviour," he explained. "In blunt terms, she had just two words of advice: 'Grow up!'
"That struck a chord. I did as I was told and my behaviour changed overnight.
"I can see now my actions were pretty juvenile but this was a different time and it's something I would not do today."
In response to the stories in May, a video of Captain Jack was dropped from the Doctor Who theatre show Time Fraction and Barrowman was also axed from an audio project for Torchwood featuring David Tennant.
Apologising at the time, he said: "With the benefit of hindsight, I understand that upset may have been caused by my exuberant behaviour and I have apologised for this previously. Since my apology in November 2008, my understanding and behaviour have also changed."
The family entertainer, who is known for calling everything 'fabulous', thinks he is suffering because of Clarke, who was stripped of his Outstanding Contribution Bafta shortly after receiving it.
"It seems to me that I've become collateral damage to a much bigger story," he said.
Calling it "exuberant" behaviour, just like you'd get from an over-enthusiastic and ultimately blameless puppy, and blaming Clarke.
Sounds like he's really taking responsibility for this.
QuoteIt seems to me that I've become collateral damage to a much bigger story
He's totally understood the situation and realised he was being a nob-out cunt.
Weird how it was shrugged off at the time though. It even received a glib, humorous mention in that cover of Victoria Wood's "Let's Do It" as if it wasn't that big of a deal.
QuoteI can't do it!
I can't do it!
The pressure of the BBC.
I must e-mail some young male
To alleviate the stress on me.
I can't block out, please lock out,
Images of Johnny B getting his cock out.
I can't do it!
I can't do it tonight!
That's not how you respond to something that's understood to be thoroughly objectionable, is it. At the time of that song I had no idea it was true - I thought it was a stupid idea just invented for the song to rhyme, and thought it was quite amusing on that basis.
I wonder if anyone thought it was true from listening to the song, and didn't think it was "off".
I don't remember exactly when I learned about it but my understanding is that it was generally known about (amongst the kind of people who read Doctor Who threads on forums, that is).
Pretty sure I knew about it. I didn't necessarily think it was ok but maybe my thinking was more "well I wouldn't like that to happen to me at work, but it's been done in public and nobody seems to be complaining about it to HR so maybe they don't mind".
Adult needs to be told getting your cock out in the workplace is wrong
I was reading about Barrowman's "antics" on the Torchwood set[nb]Something about the eyeball prop from that episode, whatever it was called, going missing on set, only for Barrowman to stride into the centre of the set, drop his keks and squeeze it out of his arse, in what he seemed to think was a hilarious prank. In retrospect, this could have happened, or it could be a homophobic list. I probably read it on b3ta or Popbitch, so also not massively reliable.[/nb] when season one of that show was on.
Still, was thinking about this the other day, and as much as he was obviously an annoying cunt to work with, if he has changed his ways and made amends in the intervening period, I'm not sure he should be blacklisted now.
And if he should be blacklisted, then surely RTD, who was in charge and aware of all this, should get the boot too?
Not that I want that to happen, obviously.
I don't know if Barrowman has really apologised in any way that really sounds sincere yet.
I mean, Barrowman was still doing stuff like this very much out in the open long after his telling off and supposed change of behaviour.
(https://i.imgur.com/oimGwG2.jpg)
Hm, I think mooning a photo isn't quite in the same territory as slapping your cock on someone. It does suggest that he's still an unbearable dickhead to work with, though.
Obviously not, but this is at a fan convention. I find it hard to believe he stopped getting his dick out for laughs. More to the point, if you had taken a dressing down from your boss for whipping it out all the time and had genuinely learned your lesson and taken on board that what you're doing is unacceptable, would you really then move on to mooning at public events for photos with your fellow cast members (none of whom look remotely surprised to see him doing this)
John Barrowman MBE
Multiple Bum Exposings
Massive Bell End
Quote from: Stone Cold Steve Austin on October 04, 2021, 07:42:41 PM
Obviously not, but this is at a fan convention. I find it hard to believe he stopped getting his dick out for laughs. More to the point, if you had taken a dressing down from your boss for whipping it out all the time and had genuinely learned your lesson and taken on board that what you're doing is unacceptable, would you really then move on to mooning at public events for photos with your fellow cast members (none of whom look remotely surprised to see him doing this)
The ones at the front might not be aware, and the one at the back is having a big chuckle.
I dunno, it still seems a bit spurious, if there aren't any further reports of him acting the cunt (in a nude/sexual context) past 2008 or whatever.
I always think of Bob Mortimer's response to Richard Herring when he's asked if he would ever suck Keith Allen's cock. Obvious aggravation just thinking about that man and other knob-flaunters like him.
What really seems to have done Barrowman in is that video of Noel Clarke at a convention describing his willy waving antics.
Quote from: Mister Six on October 04, 2021, 08:09:19 PM
I dunno, it still seems a bit spurious, if there aren't any further reports of him acting the cunt (in a nude/sexual context) past 2008 or whatever.
By his own naughty gloating (https://www.digitalspy.com/showbiz/a242864/john-barrowman-i-gave-eva-a-good-grope/) he was doing his 'banana trick' on the set of
Desperate Housewives in 2010, but by his account Eva Longoria was into it (can't speak for any voiceless members of the crew who might have been less enthusiastic) -
QuoteThe Torchwood actor was recently cast as new character Patrick Logan alongside Longoria in the ABC drama.
Barrowman told Heat: "She's amazing. I gave her a good grope. We were doing some booty-dancing and I said, 'Show me some of that Latino ass!'. She did.
"And then I was like, 'Your boobies are doing alright, too, so I got to touch the boobs and the bum. She grabbed my goods, too. Oh, and I showed her my banana trick. I'll say no more! I can't tell you here..."
One major issue with Barrowman's behaviour is that, beyond his apparently willing and flirty castmates - some of whom have recounted his antics with glee at fan events[nb]I saw one video the other day of Eve Myles describing a day filming in the US (perhaps for
Miracle Day?). They were in a taxi together, and Barrowman hopped out, up onto the bonnet, and started wiping the rainy windscreen with his dick.[/nb] - there was an entire workplace of people who couldn't speak up if it bothered them. Lighting, cameras, extras, runners, makeup crew. All exposed to the banana trick with no voice in the matter.
Barrowman doesn't seem to have acknowledged this factor in his lame half-apologies. He still seems to be assuming that absolutely everybody present chimed with his playfully-intentioned attitude.
Sure he'd get away with that kind of sexually predatory behaviour so often if he was a straight man. He can't possibly be into it, you see, because he is gay.
Groping tits for him is just the same as if he was touching the trunk of a tree in a park
your honour
Quote from: Replies From View on October 08, 2021, 12:17:56 PM
Sure he'd get away with that kind of sexually predatory behaviour so often if he was a straight man. He can't possibly be into it, you see, because he is gay.
Groping tits for him is just the same as if he was touching the trunk of a tree in a park
your honour
Should be irrelevant. That's like arguing that it's fine for a billionaire to steal £100 out of your wallet, because £100 is nothing to a billionaire. The offence lies not in how Barrowman's behaviour affects Barrowman, but in how it affects the people he does it to.
Besides which, whether it's sexual or not, he clearly does get some kind of a thrill out of it.
The official Doctor Who accounts on Youtube, Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram have all closed simultaneously. Something happening maybe.
Quote from: Deanjam on October 08, 2021, 07:56:58 PM
The official Doctor Who accounts on Youtube, Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram have all closed simultaneously. Something happening maybe.
social media reality bomb to
kill chrisss chibnallsss
They've all achieved sentience and their first act is to destroy themselves rather than be forced to publicise a new series of Chinball's dribblings?
It's when they all start playing martial music that we'll need to start worrying.
Meanwhile: https://inews.co.uk/news/russell-t-davies-doctor-who-writer-nadine-dorries-idiot-anger-bbc-future-1237012
Quote from: olliebean on October 08, 2021, 10:20:46 PM
Meanwhile: https://inews.co.uk/news/russell-t-davies-doctor-who-writer-nadine-dorries-idiot-anger-bbc-future-1237012
Well she's a tory so she's either a billionaire or an idiot. Either way he's not wrong. #RTDFORPM
oh FUCK YOU
Haha, brilliant. Welcome back Russell.
Quote from: olliebean on October 08, 2021, 05:56:41 PM
Should be irrelevant. That's like arguing that it's fine for a billionaire to steal £100 out of your wallet, because £100 is nothing to a billionaire. The offence lies not in how Barrowman's behaviour affects Barrowman, but in how it affects the people he does it to.
Besides which, whether it's sexual or not, he clearly does get some kind of a thrill out of it.
You didn't perceive the sarcasm or tone of my post.
I'm talking about the perspectives of the people he is affecting, not him. And I am saying he obviously gets a thrill out of it but people - those he is groping, even - appear to let him off due to an assumption that his orientation means he doesn't.
Sony about to take over Bad Wolf, apparently.
Quote from: mjwilson on October 11, 2021, 04:29:30 PM
Sony about to take over Bad Wolf, apparently.
Saw something saying HBO were taking over as well.
What does it mean in practical terms? Ownership of Doctor Who by American companies?
I don't think so, the BBC will only have sold the rights to produce DW for a limited period.
Higher budgets maybe? And presumably Sony think that, if all goes well, they would be in a better position to negotiate for movie rights or whatever.
Also Spider-man is going to be the next Doctor.
wait what. is this something worth worrying over?
Quote from: mjwilson on October 11, 2021, 07:17:46 PM
Higher budgets maybe?
Doubt it. The amount that they're being paid to make it will presumably be agreed already, so they won't want to go over that suddenly.
Quote from: GoblinAhFuckScary on October 11, 2021, 08:04:40 PM
wait what. is this something worth worrying over?
I don't think so, I'd assume the BBC will have a veto over stuff like casting the Doctor.
It begs the question: might RTD showrunning a fresh era of Doctor Who have been one of the conditions for the contract with Sony?
Quote from: Gurke and Hare on October 11, 2021, 08:33:30 PM
I don't think so, I'd assume the BBC will have a veto over stuff like casting the Doctor.
(https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/madmanwithabooth/images/7/7f/AmericanInspector.jpg)
Quote from: Replies From View on October 11, 2021, 08:34:23 PM
It begs the question: might RTD showrunning a fresh era of Doctor Who have been one of the conditions for the contract with Sony?
It's certainly possible. Sony don't give a shit about quality control, it's all about the investment; they'd happily carry on with Chinballs if his iteration of Doctor Who had been successful. But they'll have looked at the numbers, seen that it was far more popular under RTD (and Moffat, who 'broke' the show in America), and stipulated that one of those guys should be in charge again.
Which is pure conjecture, I know, but it doesn't sound all that unlikely.
Quote from: Malcy on October 11, 2021, 06:21:15 PMQuote from: mjwilson on October 11, 2021, 04:29:30 PMSony about to take over Bad Wolf, apparently.
Saw something saying HBO were taking over as well.
Quote from: GoblinAhFuckScary on October 11, 2021, 08:04:40 PM
wait what. is this something worth worrying over?
Yeah, first I've heard of this. Any chance of some links?
Why would Sony have any say over which company produces Dr Who? Perhaps it was more like Sony promised investment if RTD could convince the BBC to give him the show (or rather Bad Wolf which I assume he has an interest in). Maybe the BBC knew when they decided. They'd still have to fund it unless they are prepared to give up international rights or something.
Bad Wolf does more than just the new new Doctor Who so the deal might not have anything directly to do with it. Just Sony buying a successful production company.
The whole series since 2005 has been up on HBO Max for a year or so, I guess we take it as read a deal has been on the cards for some time. Article from a month ago seems to support the idea: https://screenrant.com/doctor-who-disney-plus-new-direction-bbc-coproductions/
Also I'm sure I remember reading a quote from an interview where RTD was predicting that the future of Dr Who would be on streaming platforms, maybe he's known for longer than we thought that he'd be coming back to it.
Oh wait, here's the quote, it was only from back in January. So feasibly he could already been approached at that point
https://twitter.com/prkirkley/status/1352578909259390976
Quote from: Ambient Sheep on October 11, 2021, 10:17:59 PM
Yeah, first I've heard of this. Any chance of some links?
https://www.radiotimes.com/tv/sci-fi/doctor-who-producer-bad-wolf-sony-newsupdate/
Quote from: Uncle TechTip on October 11, 2021, 10:21:16 PM
Why would Sony have any say over which company produces Dr Who? Perhaps it was more like Sony promised investment if RTD could convince the BBC to give him the show (or rather Bad Wolf which I assume he has an interest in). Maybe the BBC knew when they decided. They'd still have to fund it unless they are prepared to give up international rights or something.
Yeah. Despite what I said earlier (I'm just typing out loud), this arrangement probably has nothing to do with Doctor Who as such. Bad Wolf already have ties with American television, they have a proven track record (e.g. the TV adaptation of His Dark Materials), so it's presumably just another case of Sony investing in a company that could make them some money. And if it doesn't work out, well they won't lose any sleep over it.
I really can't imagine RTD and Gardner agreeing to this if it meant losing creative control of their projects. RTD doesn't have a financial stake in Bad Wolf, but he's not going to risk his reputation on reviving Doctor Who (again) if a soulless corporation is calling the shots. Gardner doesn't have to put up with that hassle either, she's an excellent producer.
RTD doesn't really
need to do this, he's one of UK television's most successful and respected dramatists, so I think it's fair to assume that he's doing it because he wants to Make Doctor Who Great Again (MDWGA baseball caps will soon be on sale from BBC Worldwide; pre-order now!).
Anyway, here's some more info about Bad Wolf: https://bad-wolf.com/about/ (https://bad-wolf.com/about/)
Quote from: Alberon on October 11, 2021, 10:26:06 PM
Bad Wolf does more than just the new new Doctor Who so the deal might not have anything directly to do with it. Just Sony buying a successful production company.
Alberon, there, nailing my point in a far less prolix way.
Relax everyone - it's going to be both mint and skill!
Those Shakin' Doctor Who days will soon be behind us.
The RT story also says that HBO will retain its minority share in Bad Wolf, since people were asking upthread.
Also, Bad Wolf is (AFAIK) just being brought on to co-produce Who, presumably as a condition of RTD coming onboard (although maybe things will continue if all works well) and rights to the show will remain with the BBC. I don't see how the Sony deal would upend that, especially as the contracts will already have been signed.
Quote from: Replies From View on October 11, 2021, 10:45:34 PM
https://www.radiotimes.com/tv/sci-fi/doctor-who-producer-bad-wolf-sony-newsupdate/
Ah, thanks for that, all is clear now!
My confusion wasn't helped by the fact that my brain had forgotten about Bad Wolf being the name of the production company who were going to be doing RTD-2-Who, so seeing the words "Sony about to take over Bad Wolf, apparently." made me think it was a whimsical way of saying that Sony were taking over Who entirely.
Sorry, been a long and busy day. I get it now.
In case you didn't see it in the banana thread, RTD slammed the anti-trans LGB Alliance (https://twitter.com/AttitudeMag/status/1448310820744617988) while picking up an Attitude Inspiration Award for Its a Sin.
Wonder if he'll address this in some form in his upcoming Who series?
I bloody love that man. RTD's DW tenure wasn't perfect, of course it wasn't, but it was driven by a talented person who's passionate, witty, angry, decent and intelligent. An imaginative writer with a solid moral compass. The polar opposite of Chibnall.
Anyway, everything RTD said there is far more important than having another pop at Chibnall on an internet forum. But really, thank fuck he's in charge of Doctor Who again.
Well, imagine if he had said all those things, and then also added, with a whisper and his index finger to his lips, "Psst! Chris Chibnall is shite!!" and then skipped off on elfish tip-toes like he had stolen Santa Claus in a bag.
Win-win
Quote from: Mister Six on October 14, 2021, 12:34:08 AM
In case you didn't see it in the banana thread, RTD slammed the anti-trans LGB Alliance (https://twitter.com/AttitudeMag/status/1448310820744617988) while picking up an Attitude Inspiration Award for Its a Sin.
Wonder if he'll address this in some form in his upcoming Who series?
Almost missed this, but at the end of that video he announces who the next Doctor will be.
When did these 2 become MILFy cougars?
Hywel Wood...
(https://variety.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/jane-tranter_julie-gardner.jpg)
RTD has got better with age. Banana, A Very English Scandal, Years and Years[nb]well, some of it[/nb] and It's a Sin - what a run of hits for someone after leaving one of the biggest showrunning gigs in British TV.
I think he was appointed to save the show from neglect and because no one else is as qualified. Handing it over to some bright new thing would be exceedingly risky. There's no safe pair of hands among the current writers, and Chibbers has proven the limitations of going "safe".
He has grown in confidence since his time as showrunner too. I think, like last time, he will introduce some barmy ideas and piss off old-fashioned fans all the time. Crucially though, it will not be deathly dull and irrelevant as it is now.
He can make us look forward to a new series of Doctor Who again! Yesssssssss
I still think this run won't be as long as his first. He'll be in the showrunner slot for a couple of series, just to stop the ship from sinking and then move back to a more hands-off overview of the series as a new producer takes over.
Wouldn't be surprised if he co-showruns a series with whoever takes over to ease them in.
Quote from: Alberon on October 15, 2021, 03:15:39 PM
I still think this run won't be as long as his first. He'll be in the showrunner slot for a couple of series, just to stop the ship from sinking and then move back to a more hands-off overview of the series as a new producer takes over.
I'm expecting that RTD may take quite a permanent hands-off overseeing position from this point onwards, after getting it back on track with a couple of his own series. His position within Bad Wolf production company may cement him as the custodian of Doctor Who somehow, to ensure it can never go too far off the rails. He may be routinely called upon to rescue it hereafter.
Quote from: Blofelds Cat on October 15, 2021, 01:03:03 PM
When did these 2 become MILFy cougars?
phwooaaar thread is in the bin. get in the bin
Quote from: JamesTC on October 15, 2021, 03:28:16 PM
Wouldn't be surprised if he co-showruns a series with whoever takes over to ease them in.
Or possibly, per Replies, stays on in some kind of Sidney Newman role, overseeing larger production issues while others come in as rotating head writers with their own takes on the material. That would be a more sustainable model, I think (assuming RTD rotated out whenever he got knackered), than having a one-man-band showrunner who has to do absolutely everything.
Davies would need to be comfortable stepping back and letting someone else follow their vision and aesthetic for the show, though, and I don't know if his workaholic nature will allow for that. Maybe if he can distract himself with other projects - perhaps that "Marvel Universe, but for Doctor Who" thing he was talking about, or just his own stuff a la It's a Sin.
Was just thinking it would be good if the costume for the 14th Doctor was a stolen mechanic's outfit and a white William Shatner mask
Wholoween.
"BBC Has Lost Creative Control Of Doctor Who For Season 14 & Beyond (https://screenrant.com/bbc-doctor-who-future-creative-control-changes-details/)"
QuoteThe BBC has lost control of creative control of Doctor Who from season 14 onwards. Radical changes are in store for the BBC's flagship science-fiction TV series; current showrunner, Chris Chibnall, is departing after season 13 and next year's specials, along with Thirteenth Doctor, Jodie Whittaker. Chibnall will be replaced by returning showrunner Russell T. Davies, the man who relaunched Doctor Who so successfully back in 2005.
Chibnall has consistently argued the most important changes will happen behind-the-scenes. In his view, Doctor Who needs to reinvent itself in the age of Disney+, competing with the likes of Marvel and Lucasfilm. The only possible solution lay in a co-production deal, with a partner co-financing in return for certain benefits, such as some distribution rights or some element of creative say. A good example was The Night Manager, which reportedly cost £3 million per episode at a time when UK broadcaster budgets for primetime dramas rarely exceed £700-800,000 an hour. In the case of Doctor Who, the BBC has partnered with Bad Wolf, a production firm based in Wales run by two former producers who worked with Davies on the 2005 relaunch. There have been reports Bad Wolf is soon to be acquired by Sony, following a £60 million deal.
According to The Times, Bad Wolf is responsible for the creative direction and production, while the BBC retains international sales, merchandise and other ancillary matters. Essentially this means that, from Doctor Who season 14 onwards, the BBC will no longer have creative control of Doctor Who. The Times reports this could mean the BBC will miss out on up to £40 million in commercial revenue for every ten episodes; "It's extraordinary that BBC Studios has just rolled over," one source commented.
The Times' report seems overly critical, however. The BBC's finances are under significant strain, with the Conservative government continually placing pressure on their main source of income, the TV license fee. There is no way the BBC can produce Doctor Who to the quality level they hope for without signing some sort of co-production deal. What's more, international distribution and merchandise sales are vitally important in many science-fiction franchises, so losing these would have been a critical blow to another BBC revenue stream. And all the figures involved with Bad Wolf are experienced producers who have worked on Doctor Who before, with the original Davies era aging surprisingly well.
Even The Times' estimate of the cost is probably an overestimate, because it fails to factor in the benefits of bringing back Russell T. Davies. The BBC would only agree to something like this if execs were confident Davies and Bad Wolf could dramatically increase Doctor Who's profile, with significant increases in viewership and/or franchising. Indeed, it's significant that - back before he signed up to return as showrunner, and before Bad Wolf was brought in - Davies reminisced about being ahead of the likes of Marvel in trying to build an entire universe around the show, with spin-offs such as Torchwood and The Sarah-Jane Adventures. Davies' vision for Doctor Who seems to involve it expanding into a bigger franchise than ever before; in which case, the BBC's taking a step back and giving Davies the room to maneuver could pay off for them in a big way with Doctor Who.
If BBC creative control = Chibnall and no BBC creative control = RTD, then I can live with that.
Could be a return to 14 episodes a year, at the very least. Not sure a Marvel-type universe is desirable or justifiable. Back in the day, SJA as a proper kids' show, Who as the main family experience and (a hypothetically not shit) Torchwood as the adult series seemed like a decent balance.
What else would you want to add to that? Is there really an appetite for those three PLUS The Paternoster Gang, Clara in Time and Space, Bill the Psychic Ship Fuel, Nardole: Cyberman Killer etc etc?
Marvel's in a different position to Who because it has almost 100 years of accumulated stories and characters, all with their own fanbases. Who is in the Star Wars position of having a broadly admired core story that's heavily focused on a particular character/group of characters, and while there's a robust spin-off market for the hardcore fans in cheap-to-produce novels/comics/audios, parlaying that into expensive telly shows or even films is a bigger ask. And Who's core fandom/recognition is nowhere near what pre-movie-spinoff-fuckery Star Wars was. And look how that turned out. Where's Solo 2, eh?
I'm for one am happy with the situation. It's not like the BBC had control of Doctor Who stolen from them, but have actively taken steps to save the show which, compared to the neglect it got in the 80s, is a good thing IMO. The BBC will, obviously, retain overall control.
I think The Times likes to bash the BBC whatever it does so I wouldn't pay too much attention to the tone there.
RTD has been very clear that having ancillary shows to feed into the main one makes good sense. SJA is a prime example, and even something that was often as stupid and badly written (by Chibnall) like Torchwood had something to give.
The show needs to get away from the 18 month production cycle and back to a 12 month one so even if there aren't more episodes a series they come round often enough to keep the momentum going.
I expect the concentration will be on the main show to begin with (God knows it needs it), but maybe a new children's show would appear around 2024 or 25. Maybe we'd even get Doctor Who Confidential back. Never did understand why that got canned.
I'm not really arsed about Doctor Who without the Doctor, which is why my attention wanes so much when the character isn't really working, like at the moment. Sarah Jane was just about okay because, come on, it's Sarah Jane, but I can't really think of any other character that I'd follow to a spin-off.
I hope they bring back the Doctor Who Experience
I wonder what will happen with the naming convention of Doctor Who. Will they call the next batch of episodes "series 14"? I feel like they won't, for some reason. Even back in 2010 Moffat was saying that "series 5" communicated an aging brand, but it wasn't really the time to break ties with RTD's tenure and start again from "series 1", to say nothing of the confusion it would have poured on DVD sales etc.
But "series 14" is even more alienating a jump-on point for anyone new. They need to do something about it now, but I wonder what their options are. I suppose it's only an issue at all when it comes to selling the episodes in various formats - it's not something that really needs to be mentioned at all in publicity for the broadcasts.
Quote from: Alberon on November 03, 2021, 03:37:42 PMMaybe we'd even get Doctor Who Confidential back. Never did understand why that got canned.
Cash? Ancillary show promoting other BBC show hard to justify when outlining how the BBC is using the licence fee to service lots of different demographics?
Christ, they wouldn't give Chibnall work, would they? He's done Doctor Who now, all the "training" on Torchwood and the main show has paid off as much as it ever will. They wouldn't give him The Graham And Ryan Adventures, would they?
If BBC Three comes back, I can see them attempting a return for Confidential. Cheap "new" content.
Quote from: Mister Six on November 03, 2021, 03:51:04 PM
Cash? Ancillary show promoting other BBC show hard to justify when outlining how the BBC is using the licence fee to service lots of different demographics?
Christ, they wouldn't give Chibnall work, would they? He's done Doctor Who now, all the "training" on Torchwood and the main show has paid off as much as it ever will. They wouldn't give him The Graham And Ryan Adventures, would they?
Yeah that's a good question. It's just impossible to know what RTD's true views of Chibnall's writing abilities are. He may take the diplomatic view that Chibnall probably has his fans and is deserving of more writing credits for Doctor Who and its spin-offs if Chibnall shows a desire or pitches anything.
I have to assume that Chibnall must impress RTD and others when it comes to planning meetings for Torchwood and so on. Maybe he throws a few solid ideas around and collaborates well with other idea people, and has a strong mission to ensure everyone cracks on with the ideas they have rather than work through the night to make their ideas better. Pragmatic, that'll do let's just get it written attitude that might be valuable to have around at times, but shouldn't ever be the primary creative force on
anything.
I wonder if they'd attempt an animated Who aimed at younger kids. I've wondered why they haven't done it in the past, aside from Dreamland. It'd be cheaper and would be a way of getting more Who with the full cast.
I dunno if it'd be cheaper to do well. Dreamland looked like shit, and people have high expectations for CGI these days. Maybe something very stylised like the Clone Wars cartoon? Or a 2D animation, but again I don't know what the costs are like for that kind of thing. There was a 2D Ten/Martha thing too, but it looked like a Flash animation (and probably was).
Spin-off series pitch: Eighth Doctor exiles himself to Earth to avoid the Time War.
Quote from: Mister Six on November 03, 2021, 04:20:29 PM
I dunno if it'd be cheaper to do well. Dreamland looked like shit, and people have high expectations for CGI these days. Maybe something very stylised like the Clone Wars cartoon? Or a 2D animation, but again I don't know what the costs are like for that kind of thing. There was a 2D Ten/Martha thing too, but it looked like a Flash animation (and probably was).
I think it would be a massive kick in the balls to get a Doctor Who cartoon spin-off routinely produced when they can barely fund the animated Hartnell/Troughton reconstructions.
They'll surely want to do a Dalek spin-of - let's hope the Nation estate isn't too demanding. Something set in the Resistance world of Dalek Invasion of Earth? Subsequent seasons could expand into the universe of The Daleks' Masterplan.
How about 'THE CELESTIAL TOYMAKER'? Plenty of scope there. Or 'MOROKS VS. XERONS'?
Celestial Toymaker = instant cancellation, so best not.
I think any spin-offs are going to have to come from new characters (from this point on) or yer Paternoster types. RTD was bloody lucky in his first season to have Barrowman become such an obvious breakout star, and obviously Sarah Jane is probably the most iconic of the OG companions.
Beyond them, who is there? I can't imagine audiences are crying out for Mel's Angels or whatever you could generate from the old lot, and of the characters left, Rose is in another dimension (and predates probably most of Who's current target audience), Donna/Amy/Rory all inaccessible, and Clara and Bill are basically doing exactly what The Doctor does. Obviously "the fam" are write-offs from a character perspective.
Martha: UNIT Commander? Maybe, but again her last appearance was over a decade ago. Maybe as part of a wider UNIT show along with Kate and Osgood, but you still have the problem of it ultimately being more of the same: aliens invading earth every week, just like in the parent show. Maybe Torchwood-like trouble with alien tech. The MCU at least allows for different kinds of stories, even if they all boil down to superheroes: WandaVision, Loki and CA&TWS can be mistaken for one another.
So yeah, I expect RTD will be lining up backdoor pilots, if this actually is a plan, rather than attempting to spin off characters that have been seen on TV in 10, 20... 60 years. Or a Class-type "here's a completely separate thing, but look, The Doctor is in the first episode".
Not sure the Daleks would work so well if oversaturated. Even '80s Who understood that - one story per Doctor only. Any new spinoff will come from new elements brought into the show in RTD's next tenure. Paternoster Gang wouldn't really work as they've not been on screen in seven years already. A CBBC one would especially need to be current, hard to appeal to kids with "13 years ago, this character was in a version of the show totally different to the one that's on now, that's cool eh!"
Sarah Jane had all of one Tennant episode before she got her own spin-off. The robot dog might have helped, but you could get the Paternosters back for a couple of episodes before attempting to give them their own show.
Yes, fair. I still reckon it'll be more likely to be all new stuff, mind.
Stylised cartoon could be fun.
Any excuse to post the Dr Who anime: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kt3qZYUPi2Y
I'd like a Doctor Who - Terminator crossover anime please.
yeah fuck the bbc. pleased about this
Funny though, considering how RTD has been bigging up the BBC lately. Must be feeling quite mixed about it all.
Quote from: A Hat Like That on November 03, 2021, 05:38:58 PM
Stylised cartoon could be fun.
Any excuse to post the Dr Who anime: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kt3qZYUPi2Y
I'd love a story about pissed-up Geordies invading Tokyo.
Ruth Clayton: Tour Guide - Jo Martin goes on tours of Britain's historic towns and cities.
Lee Clayon: Cake Collector - Neil Stuke orders and collects cakes from some of the UK's finest bakeries and patisseries.
Quote from: Huxleys Babkins on November 03, 2021, 04:41:42 PM
Spin-off series pitch: Eighth Doctor exiles himself to Earth to avoid the Time War.
"Haven't I already done this?"
I think given how niche the EDAs were, you could realistically do a 8th Doctor revisited series based on books set on Earth (i.e. not just the Earth arc but some others to fill gaps)
12 episodes, so 11 episodes based on ... The Burning; Casualties of War; Eater of Wasps; The Turing Test (2 parter); Revolution Man; Father Time (2 parter); The Dying Days (3 parter, with the 1st episode a Dr lite one*) and for the 60s/70s have some fun and do a UNIT one with a classic monster.
*I think you could have some fun piecing the story together from the POV of the news crew characters in it i.e. as a pseudo found footage episode. Dr would be in the background in some scenes, perhaps even interviewed.
Ah man I've just realised that it would be so cool to have the Jocks and the Geordies battling it out in Doctor Who. They should definitely do that
The best thing would be a huge criminals/military/conglomerates dust-up set on Androzani Major, all double-dealings and political intrigue. YOUNG SHARAZ JEK
I thought up some 'funny rubbish Doctor Who spin off' ideas but Big Finish already did them all
Quote from: Replies From View on November 03, 2021, 05:47:52 PM
Ah man I've just realised that it would be so cool to have the Jocks and the Geordies battling it out in Doctor Who. They should definitely do that
Quote from: Norton Canes on November 03, 2021, 06:06:13 PM
The best thing would be a huge criminals/military/conglomerates dust-up set on Androzani Major, all double-dealings and political intrigue. YOUNG SHARAZ JEK
Combine the two: YOUNG SHARAZ JOCK.
Why not do spin-offs based on all the great characters from the Chibnall era.
STORIES FROM THE FROG'S CHAIR
not at all convinced the world is hungry for more dr who spin-offs
Pinky Fingers: Danny Pink uses his Cyber enhancements to identify the culprits in a series of crimes, from robbery to shoplifting, then dobs them in to the filth before frigging a woman to completion with his vibrating robo-digits.
k9 and cumpany
halloween ep called k9 and pumpkiny
also a ready meal
They should follow the Wallace and Gromit model of age-appropriate spinoffs - main one for kids and families, one for just kids (Shaun the sheep) and one for infants (Timmy Time).
So we've got Who and SJA, so just something for Cbeebies next. Maybe set the whole thing on some planet where nothing happens, featuring an assortment of non violent aliens from the main series, like I dunno, the little fat blob baby aliens from series 4, and they teach you to count or something. And maybe a dalek shows up but he's all nice and happy because his circuits got glitter on them. And then the doctor shows up in one episode but all he does is go 'ooh' and 'aah'.
Quote from: Jerzy Bondov on November 03, 2021, 06:06:32 PM
I thought up some 'funny rubbish Doctor Who spin off' ideas but Big Finish already did them all
No kidding! They managed to knock up a couple of box sets each out of the one-off appearances from
Lady Christina and
Jenny (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenny_(Doctor_Who)#Big_Finish) > > > spin-off madness (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Doctor_Who_spin_off_audio_plays_by_Big_Finish)
the winston churchill series seemed like a low point
I'd love a 13 part series called 'Fishing With Wilf' - each episode takes place on a little row boat and involves all the past Doctors consecutively just chilling out and chatting with Wilf as he imparts more wisdom than he has any right to.
Quote from: canted_angle_again on November 03, 2021, 08:18:05 PM
I'd love a 13 part series called 'Fishing With Wilf' - each episode takes place on a little row boat and involves all the past Doctors consecutively just chilling out and chatting with Wilf as he imparts more wisdom than he has any right to.
Ladies and gentlemen, the first ever good idea for a Doctor Who spin off.
By the way if you've never seen the Christmas episode of Cribbins' CBeebies series Old Jack's Boat written by RTD, it's a bit special.
Wilf really should have been what Clara is.
And if that takes off you could have a buddy comedy starring him and Tom Bakers 'curator' getting up to madcap antics in a museum. A bit like the Jim Broadbent stuff in Cloud Atlas. Perhaps have Larry David as 'the meddling monk' and Trevor McDonald as the museum owner trying to keep everything in line.
Quote from: A Hat Like That on November 03, 2021, 05:47:20 PM
I think given how niche the EDAs were, you could realistically do a 8th Doctor revisited series based on books set on Earth (i.e. not just the Earth arc but some others to fill gaps)
Yeah, I've often thought how there are so many Eighth Doctor stories out there that if anyone wanted to do a TV series for him then there's a wealth of material to be mined. You could do a bolder series starting with something like Alien Bodies, too.
Quote from: daf on November 03, 2021, 07:57:58 PM
No kidding! They managed to knock up a couple of box sets each out of the one-off appearances from Lady Christina and Jenny (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenny_(Doctor_Who)#Big_Finish) > > > spin-off madness (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Doctor_Who_spin_off_audio_plays_by_Big_Finish)
Jenny always felt like she was set up for a spinoff so I totally get that; Lady Christina a lot less so.
Quote from: Midas on November 03, 2021, 08:11:52 PM
the winston churchill series seemed like a low point
Yeah, and The Robots - set on the same planet as Robots of Death - isn't far behind. Plus stuff like Graceless and Vienna, which are spinoff series of characters introduced in Big Finish Who stories.
Big Finish's Worlds of Doctor Who range is the absolute benchmark for utterly ridiculous spinoffs, though.
Lady Christina is an aristocratic cat burglar, which even if you know nothing else about her, makes her a billion times more interesting and laden with story potential than "some girl with no personality and a spaceship".
An educational yet exciting spin-off in which Racist Time Fonz gradually learns the errror of his ways while travelling around in a stolen TARDIS disguised as a '50s jukebox. Instead of a wheezing, groaning sound, its entrances and exits are accompanied by the iconic guitar riff from Jailhouse Rock.
Can't wait for the spin-off about Transphobic Space Mork.
The first thing I think of when RTD's "Lotsa Doctor Who" theory comes up is Abslom Daak; a grim, pulpy Conan the Barbarian type showcase of savagery amid the chainsawed shells of dead Daleks sounds like a lot of fun, and it would provide a very different angle to the Who universe than the main show provides. I think a lot of settings from Who would be be a good basis for spin-offs. The People would be great fodder for a show if only they wouldn't attract a lawsuit from Iain M Banks' estate. But there's the Earth Empire, including the 51st century or wherever it is Captain Jack comes from, there's the time of the Adjudicators like Chris and Roz. There's Benny, she could really shine in her own TV series. If Lawrence Miles can be coaxed into cooperation, there's Faction Paradox. There's probably heaps of alien species you could elaborate upon, similar to how IG88's droid series was made from a shoddy background prop into something great in The Mandalorian. They'd never do it, but I'd love to see a marauding army of beehived Drahvins taking on, I dunno, Cybermen? Speaking of Cybermen, there's Kroton. Someone said the Celestial Toymaker would be cancel material, but I think it'd be fine as long as he wasn't yellowed-up. And so on. I think a DWU is doable, it's just too hard to get the cash together. Plus Who is populated by creatives like Chibnall behind the scenes, so even the best ideas are at risk.
Omari Douglas, from It's a Sin, is now the reported favourite new Doctor, so much so that betting has been suspended by some bookies.
Could well be bollocks, of course.
I remember when the 11th Doctor was absolutely nailed on to be Patterson Joseph, so I'll take that with a pinch of salt.
I think the one guarantee is that it won't be a white man.
You say that, but just wait - you'll be embarrassed when the 14th Doctor is revealed to be
Spoiler alert
Kris Marshall
.
James Corden is 50/1
Craig spin off where he drives around in a car with various Doctors and aliens and stuff and he goes AH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA with his mouth wide open
Quote from: JamesTC on November 04, 2021, 04:31:37 PM
James Corden is 50/1
I agree that he's very fat but not 50 times more than average.
Quote from: Jerzy Bondov on November 04, 2021, 04:33:25 PM
Craig spin off where he drives around in a car with various Doctors and aliens and stuff and he goes AH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA with his mouth wide open
Flies going in, and things
I just want an edit of the climax of The War Games with pictures of James Corden and Kris Marshall added when The Doctor says "Well he's too fat isn't he? No! He's too thin!"
Quote from: JamesTC on November 05, 2021, 01:44:58 PM
I just want an edit of the climax of The War Games with pictures of James Corden and Kris Marshall added when The Doctor says "Well he's too fat isn't he? No! He's too thin!"
But also
(https://denvaldron.com/dvmain/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/david-burton-new-doctor-cover.jpg)
"Oh now that won't do at all!"
The Doctor New Who?
That's such a strange story isn't it. "One thing they were going to do was replace the blue police box with a red telephone box."
Plus the absurd certainty of anybody being able to say that all photos and film footage was definitely destroyed and that's why there is no evidence of it ever happening.
Got a free Proton out of it, respect the hustle
Quote from: thr0b on November 05, 2021, 03:08:57 PM
But also
(https://denvaldron.com/dvmain/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/david-burton-new-doctor-cover.jpg)
Kiryu Kazuma's let himself Jimmy Saville.
Looked at that photo and thought it was Robert Lindsey!
Quote from: thr0b on November 05, 2021, 03:08:57 PM
But also
(https://denvaldron.com/dvmain/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/david-burton-new-doctor-cover.jpg)
He used to live about a five minute walk from me, and managed to blag a car from a local dealership which claimed he was the new Doctor Who on the side, along with some for advertising blurb. Even back then no one seemed to really believe him, and it wasn't a surprise when he failed to appear on our screens.
Edit: Just found a picture now:
(https://i.imgur.com/mWExgK9.jpg)
What's the story here? Totally clueless sorry.
Quote from: mothman on November 06, 2021, 01:22:11 PM
What's the story here? Totally clueless sorry.
Here you go: http://www.endofthelane.co.uk/burton.html
Thanks SMBH!
Thanks for the link SMBH, and you all for bringing the story up. Very odd, fascinating stuff, I'd never heard it before.
Very strong 'first episode of I'm Alan Partridge' vibes from that. He's essentially made up a hypothetical promising bit of work to get a free car, assuming the claim would fade away quickly, leaving only the car behind for years of enjoyment. Quite poetic that the opposite has happened, and that if you google his name, all of the results relate to Doctor Who.
QuoteThat said, Burton's published list of acting credits includes some rather mysterious entries. In his online CV published several years ago by his former agent, Burton stated that he had appeared as a character called "Dave" in an episode of Only Fools and Horses that had been directed by Richard Kell. Except that a Richard Kell didn't direct any of the 64 televised episode of the series. In fact, I couldn't find any directing credits for anyone of that name.
This made me smile a bit. The idea that he'd fly under the radar pretending he'd been cast as a character called "Dave" in Only Fools and Horses.
It's daft. He could have claimed to have spent several years working in the States on TV shows that might never be expected to make it over here and which we might at best see brief clips of on Entertainment USA and nobody would have been any the wiser. But nooooo, instead he makes out he was on OFAH and DW.
He was sticking to his story as late as 2012, but it seems he was in the habit of fluffing all areas of his CV. A few decades back he could invent an obscure C4 show he apparently starred in, but it's too easy to check these days.
I can see why he picked Doctor Who. It was a show everyone had heard of, but by the end of the eighties relatively few were watching. He didn't count on the fans though.
The height of his real TV career seems to be appearing in the line up of Never Mind the Buzzcocks.
Quote from: Alberon on November 07, 2021, 09:17:08 AM
The height of his real TV career seems to be appearing in the line up of Never Mind the Buzzcocks.
deso
Noticed the shooting script for Love and Monsters (http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/writersroom/scripts/doctor-who-s2-ep10-love-and-monsters.pdf) was added to the script library on the BBC Writers Room page recently.
Know there are a lot of fans of that story on here! ;)
Quote from: Midas on November 07, 2021, 01:22:58 PM
Noticed the shooting script for Love and Monsters (http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/writersroom/scripts/doctor-who-s2-ep10-love-and-monsters.pdf) was added to the script library on the BBC Writers Room page recently.
Know there are a lot of fans of that story on here! ;)
AHH WEEE DON'T LIKE IT
FUCKIN THE PAVEMENT
FUCK THE PAVEMENT
Engulf my cock in concrete
slab-suck please
In other RTD news, he's written a drama about
Crossroads grande dame Noele Gordon. It will almost certainly be tremendous.
https://www.radiotimes.com/tv/drama/helena-bonham-carter-nolly-russell-t-davies-newsupdate/ (https://www.radiotimes.com/tv/drama/helena-bonham-carter-nolly-russell-t-davies-newsupdate/)
I'm looking forward to the recreation of her emotionally-charged post-sacking appearance on the Russell Harty show.
This has happened: https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/13719629
(https://i.imgur.com/GPKn6qc.png)
You missed out where it says that is the managing director is Julie Gardner and Jane Tranter is chief executive. Natasha Hale, COO for Bad Wolf, has the same job here.
The office is less than a hundred yards from Bad Wolf Studios.
I know it's very early and it would be insane to make a judgement based on nothing but a filing with companies house but this is going to be absolute unmitigated fucking shit
They've also registered one 'Whomobile' with the DVLA.
I'm totally up for The Nyssa Adventures
The Mr. Copper Adventures
"Mr. Copper, we need your help!"
"Fuck off."
Quote from: Jerzy Bondov on November 25, 2021, 11:19:01 AMI know it's very early and it would be insane to make a judgement based on nothing but a filing with companies house but this is going to be absolute unmitigated fucking shit
I don't get it. What are we being told is happening?
I don't understand either. What is this?
NEW SUBSIDIARY COULD HINT AT A MARVEL-STYLE WHONIVERSE FROM RUSSELL T DAVIES (https://www.doctorwhotv.co.uk/new-subsidiary-could-hint-at-a-marvel-style-whoniverse-from-russell-t-davies-96085.htm)
(apologies for cut n' paste caps)
Was 'Whoniverse' without a number already taken?
Anyway I don't mind. I'll skip what I'm not interested in. I still haven't seen most of Torchwood, TSJA or Class. Some stuff will ultimately tie into the show and that'll probably be the stuff I'll watch.
The other end of the same spectrum is an allusion to an epic overarching world, but only expressed within 6 episodes of Doctor Who, with nothing but exposition driving everything along. Having all that stuff dealt with in the 'Whoniverse' will allow Doctor Who to better breathe as itself.
I wouldn't read much into it. It's not uncommon for companies to set up subsidiaries so the new company absorbs all the risk and they can dissolve them without really impacting the parent company if things go shit.
Reminder of what Russell said a bit ago:
QuoteThere should be a Doctor Who channel now. You look at those Disney announcements, all of those new Star Wars and Marvel shows, you think, we should all be sitting here announcing The Nyssa Adventures, or The Return of Donna Noble, and you should have the tenth and eleventh Doctors together in a 10-part series. Genuinely. And I think that will happen one day.
It would need to be bought by Disney or somebody like that to happen. Maybe I could see it if there was some sort of co-production deal and Paramount, Disney or Netflix got the worldwide exclusive rights outside the UK. The BBC would be able to justify it by having much more content at a lower price to spread across BBC One, Two and (the newly returning) Three.
But stuff like The Nyssa adventures would be a non-starter. A nice idea for us fans that stuff like that would work now, but it is barely justifiable from Big Finish. It would need to be a new series character who spins off, or at least a character or enemy who the audience are very familiar with.
I think it's a terrible idea, the show just can't sustain a vast array or worlds, given that the budget is never going to be top tier, even under a different production company. So you'll end up with loads of shows that feel like a pale facimile of the mainline show, only without the freedom and potential of limitless time and space.
A couple of skews, maybe. Perhaps a few 3-4 part standalone stories like Children of Earth. But once you come up against a lack of sci-fi writing talent, a lack of budget, and a lack of a Tardis (or at least what it represents), I think people will quickly realise that the appeal of Doctor Who is in Doctor Who, not the goofy world it inhabits.
Quote from: mjwilson on November 25, 2021, 10:03:38 PMReminder of what Russell said a bit ago:
Oh sorry, someone had linked to that above.
Quote from: Kelvin on November 25, 2021, 10:19:18 PMI think it's a terrible idea, the show just can't sustain a vast array or worlds, given that the budget is never going to be top tier, even under a different production company. So you'll end up with loads of shows that feel like a pale facimile of the mainline show, only without the freedom and potential of limitless time and space.
A couple of skews, maybe. Perhaps a few 3-4 part standalone stories like Children of Earth. But once you come up against a lack of sci-fi writing talent, a lack of budget, and a lack of a Tardis (or at least what it represents), I think people will quickly realise that the appeal of Doctor Who is in Doctor Who, not the goofy world it inhabits.
Yeah, I think you're right. At the very least, RTD is going to need a proper run-up to develop some suitably adored characters to spin off. He lucked out big time with Barrowman's charisma and Sarah-Jane being the single most iconic Who companion ever, but obviously neither of those are available to spin off, and the last time here was a half-decent collection of side characters was five years ago now, which is
literally half a lifetime to the core audience.
Chibnall killing off Gallifrey again probably didn't help in terms of raw materials, either. Unless it gets fixed in the no-doubt horrendously overstuffed Flux finale.
I can see them spinning off The Master with a Loki style thing.
Odd couple sitcom starring Dan and Karvanista.
Seems misguided to try and engineer a Marvel-style "universe" out of one property.
I'd genuinely love a sitcom starring Peter Davison, Colin Baker and Sylvester McCoy as themselves that follows on from The Five-ish Doctors Reboot.
I don't much care for having a lot of spinoffs around, but I'll check them out. Though it should indeed be something that comes after turning the whole ship around, which might take a little bit.
Given how hit-and-miss the MCU TV series have been - and them being based on a huge history of multi-character comic book stories - the idea of a Doctor Who equivalent seems a bit daft. Big Finish will always be enough for a certain niche of hardcore fans, but in terms of attracting a wider audience, it's going to be hard. For those fans, history is full of K-9 and Company, the Harry and Turlough novels, the Benny NAs, the Faction Paradox stuff, Lethbridge-Stewart books, comics of past Doctors, MA/PDA novels, Telos novellas, Big Finish itself, the numerous video spinoffs, even spinoffs-of-spinoffs like the Erimem books, even Class, and yet it's all either failed or languished in obscurity. Only Torchwood and Sarah Jane Adventures have had any success, both at the peak of the show's popularity, and the former being mostly considered crap by a large amount of Who fans.
Hell, even DC can't manage it properly - both the badly managed DCEU films, and Arrowverse's 'you must watch every episode of this shit series to understand one subplot of this good series' approach - so how a show like Doctor Who could actually manage it on screen is genuinely beyond me. Whatever you think of them, the great things about the novels and audios is that they can entertain fans who want more whilst effectively simultaneously existing in a separate continuity that has no effect on the main public version of the show.
The analogy to me is Star Wars. Warning: sweeping statement coming up - the franchise does on the whole tend to struggle if it's anything that doesn't involve Skywalkers. Oh, sure, there are exceptions - Mando is pretty decent, Rogue One is good, but they remain pretty "main sequence" adjacent. It's possible things really are changing now and they're finally figuring out how to do a SWEU.
And like SW with its "based around one family" problem, DW is based around one person and it flounders when it isn't. All the DW spin-offs have been like those Ewoks movies and Solo and Clone Wars; nowhere near the same impact as the "main sequence." So far there's no sign of DW's Mandalorian.
OK, tortured half-arsed analogy over! ;-)
I think if you just make the spinoffs good, it'll probably work. You just take the Big Finish template - past Doctors, the more interesting big ticket monsters and villains - and you do something actually good with it. It won't be daft stuff like The Nyssa Adventures or Tea and Toast with Turlough. But there's definitely an audience out there for more Tenth Doctor, more Eleven, maybe even a Clara and Me thing.
And if he's not planning to finally bring back the Doctors daughter, I'll eat my hat.
Ignoring stuff like CSI and Law & Order, which are mostly just a series of otherwise unconnected spin-offs (and formulaic ones at that), aren't there basically only two successful "cinematic universes" at this point - the Marvel movies and the DC Arrowverse shows?
(The Star Trek shows are also basically all self-contained, and I think it's a bit early to say whether the glut we have at the minute is sustainable, and I'm not sure the Marvel shows will be sustainable either, in the long run.)
Marvel succeeds because, unlike the DCEU, its films are consistently good (not necessarily excellent or even great, though some are, but good). The Arrowverse shows are ropier, but with lower budgets and expectations that's less of an issue, and they scratch a "fun but low maintenance" itch that the denser Golden Age of Television shows don't.
They also have the advantage of up to 80 years of accumulated characters, stories and worlds to draw on, and huge built-in fanbases of people who have grown attached to these characters over the decades and will give the shows a whirl.
Doctor Who hasn't yet managed one 14-episode season of solid episodes (even the best Moffat season had Silurian turds or whiffy Monk farts stinking the place up) and no established beloved characters that aren't played by actors who are far too old for this sort of thing. More importantly, outside of Britain, Who just doesn't have the cultural reach that Marvel and DC enjoy. At best, it's the plucky underdog show that was notable about seven or eight years ago.
If RTD is going to attempt this, he needs to do what the MCU and CW both did, and take it slow. Get the audience engaged with and energised by Who again, and then build outwards, deliberately and with care. Trying to do what DC did with its films or what Disney did with Star Wars and just splurging loads of shite out there without building (hnngh) brand awareness and without care for consistent quality is a recipe for failure.
Strax's porn double series (with tragic consequences)
I see this as something to be excited about. I've not watched Doctor Who since the second episode of Chibnalls run. I could tell it wasn't for me. Fair play to all that have suffered through it.
Some might be shit, some might be great. There will be some ambition at least.
As a C-list UK scriptwriter, the possibility of a tonne of Who-based series being developed at once is quite exciting, even if only one or two of them get made, because there are so few opportunities for the likes of me to pitch for SFF shows otherwise.
I got asked to pitch an episode for S8, which was incredibly exciting, but was aware early on I was one of sixteen writers going for four standalone(ish) episodes, then eight writers for two, etc as it got whittled down. It came down to me and a bigger-name writer over the final episode in the end and he got it (not because he was a bigger name I don't think, his idea was just stronger than mine). I still haven't watched more than the first two minutes of it.
So from a (mostly) selfish position, I'm really interested to see where this goes.
Quote from: GoblinAhFuckScary on November 26, 2021, 03:25:06 AMStrax's porn double series (with tragic consequences)
Which reminds me I accidentally sent an email to the DW production team about a theoretical episode featuring Strax put on trial by the Sontaran High Command with a very slight error so that the heading was 'strap on trial'
I didn't realised until it came back to me and I thought 'lol someone's going to be embarrassed about this' and then I realised it was a reply to my original email and the embarrassed person was definitely going to be me.
I wouldn't worry, it was probably automatically forwarded to the Torchwood production team.
Actually might re-send it, you never know...
Blimey we could have had a Doctor Who episode written by one of our own.
BALLS TO YOU FOR FAILING, YOU IDIOT!! YOU LET US ALL DOWN!!!
Seriously though if you get to write for a future episode please get the Doctor to say "Replies From View" as nothing but a pure favour that I have never earned.
Surely any CaB-related episode would feature a cunt who has gone bananas, unlimited carbonara and a Sontaran sleeping in a racecar bed?
Technically there is already a Doctor Who channel, if you live in mainland Europe.
https://rxtvinfo.com/2021/bbc-rolls-out-european-fast-channels
OK if Jack gets to write an episode then I'm fine with the spin-offs.
Given what RTD said in January about spin-offs and his era happening ten years too soon, I don't see him coming back and not trying to build the Doctor Who empire back up to where it was before. It could only be exciting to me. I've never not liked an RTD show and just recently It's a Sin was some of the best stuff he's done. It's honestly mad how much he and Gardner got done in just six years. It was really magic.
Quote from: Jack Shaftoe on November 26, 2021, 11:28:50 AMActually might re-send it, you never know...
Hold onto your ideas. In a few years time Big Finish will be desperate for 12th Doctor Lost Stories.
Quote from: thr0b on November 26, 2021, 12:09:54 PMSurely any CaB-related episode would feature a cunt who has gone bananas, unlimited carbonara and a Sontaran sleeping in a racecar bed?
Companion wrestling with phimosis in the TARDIS bogs
I would definitely try and sneak an I BAMLEM DAVROS in there.
Could you have Eddie nailing Syd's scrotum to a Judoon, Hans as K-10, Del Boy falling through a four dimensional bar and the Doctor turning to the camera and saying "I bet you're loving this on the Cook'd and Bomb'd forum, aren't you?"
Quote from: VelourSpirit on November 26, 2021, 12:38:11 PMGiven what RTD said in January about spin-offs and his era happening ten years too soon, I don't see him coming back and not trying to build the Doctor Who empire back up to where it was before. It could only be exciting to me. I've never not liked an RTD show and just recently It's a Sin was some of the best stuff he's done. It's honestly mad how much he and Gardner got done in just six years. It was really magic
Yeah I'm massively looking forward to all this, why not? It'll depend on the calibre of writers he recruits, of course, and let's hope he doesn't spread himself too thin by trying to write too much himself. Also the other creatives - directors, FX teams etc. - will need to bring their game. At least with Sony reportedly set to acquire Bad Wolf they should have the budget to hire the best.
And much as I'd like to see some classic era favourites return, I kind of hope he recasts most of them as I can't see the appeal of endless series featuring geriatric ex-companions.
Quote from: Alberon on November 26, 2021, 01:50:03 PMCould you have Eddie nailing Syd's scrotum to a Judoon, Hans as K-10, Del Boy falling through a four dimensional bar and the Doctor turning to the camera and saying "I bet you're loving this on the Cook'd and Bomb'd forum, aren't you?"
Is the original bar not already four dimensional? The dimension of time acting upon the bar means that Del thought it was closed but now it is open.
Obviously there is an outside force that influences the bar, however that force is also under the influence of time moving forwards.
You're right, but I was thinking of a fourth spatial dimension rather than a temporal one. Jack will have to make this bit clear when he sneaks it into his episode. A minute or two of exposition and several diagrams and it will all become obvious.
Quote from: Replies From View on November 25, 2021, 05:32:43 PMI'll skip what I'm not interested in. I still haven't seen most of Torchwood, TSJA or Class.
Ditto with Torchwood & Class, but you really should try to catch up with TSJA, as it's largely rather good and does have a little bit of tie-in.
Anyone from here successfully pitching and writing a Who-related episode must surely make mention of the planet Eggdillis 9.
higher priority to make the doctor say "replies from view" obviously, but yeah if you have time for eggdillis 9 as well, why not
We already have a ready-made TARDIS Wiki page for CaB Who. Here is it. (https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Foreskin)
This one, too. (https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Alopecia)
So when will the Next Doctor be announced? I wouldn't be too surprised if somehow the Doctor regenerates back in David Tennant for a short while.
I did suggest in the Christmas telly thread that they should be announced at the end of the Bake Off It's A Sin Special, since the overwhelming consensus appears to be that one of the main cast will be the successful candidate.
Oh hang on, Omari Douglas isn't in it.
Quote from: Natnar on December 01, 2021, 10:08:10 AMSo when will the Next Doctor be announced? I wouldn't be too surprised if somehow the Doctor regenerates back in David Tennant for a short while.
I would. That would be incredibly regressive in more than one sense.
Quote from: olliebean on December 01, 2021, 11:00:51 AMI would. That would be incredibly regressive in more than one sense.
Yeah maybe, i bet Tennant will certainly be back for the 60th anniversary though.
So i guess the final Jodie Whittaker episode will lead on to an early 2023 RTD season which will lead up to the 60th anniversary episode.
Quote from: Natnar on December 01, 2021, 11:18:48 AMYeah maybe, i bet Tennant will certainly be back for the 60th anniversary though.
So i guess the final Jodie Whittaker episode will lead on to an early 2023 RTD season which will lead up to the 60th anniversary episode.
Story starts with Tennant/Smith/Capaldi doing separate stories, which come together by the twentieth minute, then they run into the newly regenerated fourteenth Doctor, and help out with their regeneration, which has got a bit difficult for some science reasons.
Or maybe it's just a brilliant story in its own right which doesn't have to rely on dragging old Doctors into the narrative
Quote from: Norton Canes on December 01, 2021, 11:25:11 AMOr maybe it's just a brilliant story in its own right which doesn't have to rely on dragging old Doctors into the narrative
That would be preferred, natch. But an anniversary story does have the expectation of Getting The Gang Back Together.
Undoubtedly Tennant and Smith will be open to returning. Capaldi will not, I believe.
How about yeah they all have their own episodes that conclude with a shopping bag drifting across and whatever else ended every episode of The League of Gentlemen series 3.
And they find the 14th Doctor inside a robust cartoon elephant and she's like hi guys I lack agency just like when Whittaker stayed in prison, she offers a thumbs up but it is REJECTED and hey presto there is a revamped middle eight in the theme tune
So is there any real indication that RTD's version will be up and running before the 60th anniversary?
They're moving production to the Bad Wolf studios and the 60th is just about a week under two years away. So even if post-production on Chibnall's shitfest is still continuing for another year they can get started.
When RTD first took over running Doctor Who it was announced 18 months before launch.
Though in this article they seemed to expect production to take longer.
QuoteThe revival will be produced by BBC Wales, whose head of drama Julie Gardner said: "It will be a thrill to work with him on such a landmark TV series.
"This is very early days and it is unlikely anything will be on screen for at least two years but it is very exciting and I can't wait to get started."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/3140786.stm
IIRC they were slightly rushed into announcing Doctor Who's return by a press leak, but I suppose the real question is when pre-production in both cases actually started.
The clever thing to do, imo, would be to do a surreal story along the lines of The Mind Robber, and that way you can have all the actors in it the fans want without necessarily having to have them play the Doctor.
Pretty sure it was announced that RTD's first story would be the 60th, wasn't it? I doubt we'll get anything before that.
I just hope it gets back into a twelve month cycle after that. The show has been in trouble ever since it went to an eighteen month schedule when Moffat took over.
Quote from: purlieu on December 01, 2021, 12:33:00 PMPretty sure it was announced that RTD's first story would be the 60th, wasn't it? I doubt we'll get anything before that.
Ah yeah, looking back at the article quoted in the first post in this thread it does seem that the last Whittaker episode will go straight into the 60th anniversary special, which i think makes it even more likely that Whittaker's regeneration might fuck up and she'll degenerate into a past Doctor. I think it'd be a bit unfair for a new Doctor's first episode to be the 60th, unless they just appear at the end after a regeneration.
Quote from: Alberon on December 01, 2021, 12:39:13 PMI just hope it gets back into a twelve month cycle after that. The show has been in trouble ever since it went to an eighteen month schedule when Moffat took over.
The show isn't/hasn't been in trouble since the 18 month cycle came in. That's nonsense. It's rarely (if ever) out of the top 10 BBC One shows, and remains one of their biggest international successes.
The "show is in trouble" thing is a Gallifrey-Base meme based on the ongoing panic that it's going to be cancelled, for which there has never been any evidence. And farming it out to a third-party production company makes life arguably easier for the BBC - reap the profits, take few of the risks.
I'd like it to be an annual series, but - small production teams, creative burnout - arguably it's just fine on its current cycle. It's not like something like Death In Paradise, where they can basically use the same script and four sets every week.
There's clearly been a fall off in public enthusiasm and international profile for the show since the Smith era, and I don't think having ab ever decreasing number of episodes every couple of years is helping at all.
Obviously it being shite doesn't help either.
Maybe 'in trouble' since series 5 is putting it a bit strong, but it has struggled to keep momentum with an 18 month cycle. Moffat did his best with the split seasons, but that just brought its own problems.
The BBC could have let it drift to cancellation in four or five years, but it seems to have put together (or at least accepted) a rescue plan that could boost it back up there again.
If they can manage ten episodes a year that should be enough. Plus a good spin-off or two.
Quote from: Norton Canes on December 01, 2021, 10:41:57 AMI did suggest in the Christmas telly thread that they should be announced at the end of the Bake Off It's A Sin Special, since the overwhelming consensus appears to be that one of the main cast will be the successful candidate.
Oh hang on, Omari Douglas isn't in it.
And besides the BBC are hardly going to use a Channel 4 TV show (and a special featuring the cast of another Channel 4 TV show, to boot) to announce the (likely to be worldwide news) casting of the new lead actor in one of their flagship TV shows.
Quote from: Mister Six on December 01, 2021, 01:49:35 PMThere's clearly been a fall off in public enthusiasm and international profile for the show since the Smith era, and I don't think having ab ever decreasing number of episodes every couple of years is helping at all.
Obviously it being shite doesn't help either.
I do think if you asked an average member of the general public in the UK to name someone who played a modern Doctor they'd more than likely say David Tennant.
Matt Smith was the Doctor who broke America, though, thanks to a big promotional push. Lots of talk show appearances. Internationally, he's probably the most recognisable. (Well, if you discount the "Tennant sad in the rain" gif.)
Yeah, the Smith era was down marginally on the peak in the UK but it was a huge increase internationally.
I feel like Series 4 was the aberration there though. Series 2, 3, 5, 6 and 7 aren't all too different in terms of UK success. Series 4 just became a bit of a cultural zeitgeist sparked by the Kylie appearance that topped with the phoney regeneration and resolution.
Quote from: mothman on December 01, 2021, 02:02:19 PMAnd besides the BBC are hardly going to use a Channel 4 TV show (and a special featuring the cast of another Channel 4 TV show, to boot) to announce the (likely to be worldwide news) casting of the new lead actor in one of their flagship TV shows
Oh yeah there is that soz
It was a nice thought though.
With three Chibnall episodes left, is this the closest (episode-wise) we've ever been to a new Doctor without knowing who they are? I know it's technically still two years, but still...
https://www.radiotimes.com/tv/sci-fi/doctor-who-russell-t-davies-steven-moffat-newsupdate/
RTD has shared his plans with Moffat, who likes them.
Moffat has no immediate plans to write for it:
https://www.doctorwhotv.co.uk/moffat-has-no-immediate-plans-to-write-for-rtds-second-era-96432.htm
Really hope RTD leaves Moffat, Gatiss and chums out of it for a couple of years, at least. Get some new blood in, but overseen by a showrunner who's not utterly incompetent. And definitely keep her what done Villa Diodati/Village of Angels about, but let her have a whole episode to herself, without having to give up the last 5-10 minutes of the episode to maintain a season arc.
And give Grant Morrison a call, for fuck's sake. They're bloody brilliant, have Who experience (albeit in the comics), have written for film and telly and have publicly expressed enormous enthusiasm about working on the show.
And, I've said before, bring some of the best of the current 2000 AD script droids in - Rob Williams, Gordon Rennie (who's a massive fan of the show) and especially Dan Abnett, whose strips read like screenplays anyway
Quote from: Replies From View on December 13, 2021, 05:49:31 PMhttps://www.radiotimes.com/tv/sci-fi/doctor-who-russell-t-davies-steven-moffat-newsupdate/
RTD has shared his plans with Moffat, who likes them.
Weird things to make a note of here:
Quote from: https://www.radiotimes.com/tv/sci-fi/doctor-who-russell-t-davies-steven-moffat-newsupdate/"Then I phoned him up and said, 'Have you read [behind-the-scenes Doctor Who book] The Writer's Tale? Have you read it? Because I think you should'," continued Moffat.
Not "[Russell's own book] The Writer's Tale" or something more informative like that?
Get Jamie Mathieson back. Absolute madness they didn't keep him on. Though maybe he decided himself not to continue under Chibnall.
Quote from: mjwilson on December 13, 2021, 07:43:26 PMNot "[Russell's own book] The Writer's Tale" or something more informative like that?
Yes, definitely not communicating the information very well to people who aren't already very familiar with the details.
Quote from: mjwilson on December 13, 2021, 07:43:26 PMWeird things to make a note of here:
Not "[Russell's own book] The Writer's Tale" or something more informative like that?
Moffat was pointing out to RTD just how much bitching RTD did in his own book about how much running Who took out of him. And expressing surprise that RTD would be up for it again.
Quote from: Endicott on December 13, 2021, 08:11:41 PMMoffat was pointing out to RTD just how much bitching RTD did in his own book about how much running Who took out of him. And expressing surprise that RTD would be up for it again.
Yes I know.
My point is that the article doesn't tell you that it's Russell's own book, which is pretty crucial to understanding what Moffat is saying.
QuoteMoffat said: "He's the single best writer in television drama and he wants to do Doctor Who again – great news for Doctor Who."
Ooff! Take that, Wignall!
Quote from: daf on December 13, 2021, 08:53:21 PMOoff! Take that, Wignall!
Heh heh, "Wignall." Like that. I shall celebrate this new name for the besyruped one... with the joining of microwaved syrup sponge and ice cream.
Quote from: Norton Canes on December 13, 2021, 06:50:07 PMAnd, I've said before, bring some of the best of the current 2000 AD script droids in - Rob Williams, Gordon Rennie (who's a massive fan of the show) and especially Dan Abnett, whose strips read like screenplays anyway
Yes, agreed. I'm definitely of the opinion that the BBC's policy of only hiring writers with TV experience is too restrictive for a series like Who, which really needs a constant churn of creativity much like 2000AD thrives on week-by-week.
I'd also add Ian Edgington, Si Spurrier and Nigel "Kek-W" Long to my fantasy list of writers.
But not Pat Mills. His stuff has been unreadable for decades.
I think they should get Ben Aaronovitch and Kate Orman in, to be honest.
Put all Terrance Dicks and Robert Holmes scripts into an AI programme and let them write it.
Doctor Who and the Pleasant Open Space
Put all Terrance Dicks novelisations into an AI programme and let it write it.
Series 14:
The Caverns of Doom
Planet of Certain Death
Plains of No Return
Escape into Danger Zone
Creatures from the Void
Temple of Evil
Discovery of Nightmares
Monsters from Space
Planet of Terror
Fear of the Daleks
The Destruction of Time
Attack of the Beasts
The Nighttime Invasion
I mapped out a three-year plan for the series, and I've got TV experience (audience member, 10 O'Clock Live).
Quote from: purlieu on December 14, 2021, 01:01:31 AMPut all Terrance Dicks novelisations into an AI programme and let it write it.
The Big Finish thread is that way
They definitely need to get more writers in, if only to avoid another He'll Do as showrunner by default in a few years time.
And no, film/tv experience shouldn't be essential; there's no reason you couldn't get a great story written, and the script polished by a TV pro.
I've mapped out a 10 year plan, but there's so much full frontal nudity, the woke cowards at the BBC won't touch it.
Quote from: Huxleys Babkins on December 14, 2021, 11:43:53 AMI've mapped out a 10 year plan, but there's so much full frontal nudity, the woke cowards at the BBC won't touch it.
Nothing the TARDIS console can't artfully conceal. Send it in.
Is it too late to save Chibnall's console room from the skip? There's so much junk cluttering the view you could even have all cocks going in and out and nobody would be any the wiser.
I expect, whether RTD wanted to or not, that the BBC have demanded this be a completely fresh relaunch. Everything needs to be new.
deffo up for more austin powers style genital obscurity
Quote from: JamesTC on December 14, 2021, 02:59:53 PMI expect, whether RTD wanted to or not, that the BBC have demanded this be a completely fresh relaunch. Everything needs to be new.
"New genitals, everything."
14th Doctor's first words.
Quote from: thr0b on December 14, 2021, 10:07:39 AMThey definitely need to get more writers in, if only to avoid another He'll Do as showrunner by default in a few years time.
And no, film/tv experience shouldn't be essential; there's no reason you couldn't get a great story written, and the script polished by a TV pro.
I dunno, the schedule for producing 14 episodes (and I'm hoping that RTD's return along with the Bad Wolf production house means we'll be going back to 13 and a special each year) is pretty relentless, and having someone who can give you an on-budget, appropriately structured and not overlong script is going to make that a lot easier.
I'd hold up Neil Gaiman's second episode - the one that didn't have two years of back-and-forth rewrites - and the really boring Ashildr episode written by a novelist (The Woman Who Lived, I think) as examples of how difficult it can be for people who thrive in other mediums to get the hang of telly. And Gaiman's got TV experience, too! He's just not very well suited to it.
Quote from: Mister Six on December 14, 2021, 03:46:54 PMI dunno, the schedule for producing 14 episodes (and I'm hoping that RTD's return along with the Bad Wolf production house means we'll be going back to 13 and a special each year) is pretty relentless, and having someone who can give you an on-budget, appropriately structured and not overlong script is going to make that a lot easier.
I doubt this will happen to be honest. It would be nice to get back to an annual schedule but I don't think we're going to get above 10 episodes in a season.
Any reason for that? Bad Wolf is sharing the financial load, and 13 episodes is an easier sell for US TV than 10, although I suppose it's well into syndication figures at this point.
RTD just not wanting that kind of workload again?
By US TV, do you mean some new home (i.e. not BBC America) for the show over there? Because I'd guess it's more likely to end up on another streaming service, where they don't always insist on having 13 or 26 episodes per season...
Quote from: Mister Six on December 14, 2021, 07:34:46 PMAny reason for that? Bad Wolf is sharing the financial load, and 13 episodes is an easier sell for US TV than 10, although I suppose it's well into syndication figures at this point.
RTD just not wanting that kind of workload again?
Yeah that's what I was thinking. Assuming he's going to be as hands-on as before, I don't know why he would put himself through it again.
Even the broadcast networks in the US have shows with seasons as short of ten episodes.
It'd be nice to return to the episode count of RTD's first run, but it is unlikely. I'd be happy with ten episodes every twelve months though.
AND a Christmas special.
Quote from: mjwilson on December 14, 2021, 08:05:57 PMYeah that's what I was thinking. Assuming he's going to be as hands-on as before, I don't know why he would put himself through it again.
Because he wants Who to soar and that means getting it back to the formula that worked previously?
I imagine he's going to transition to a less hands-on producer/architectural consultant role after a couple of years, to assist a rotating cast of showrunners and divvy up the ridiculous workload while not running himself into an early grave.
Quote from: Mister Six on December 14, 2021, 08:25:22 PMBecause he wants Who to soar and that means getting it back to the formula that worked previously?
If Russell is going to just try the formula that worked in 2005 then I am going to be disappointed. I think he needs to do radical and original again.
I mean in terms of output rather than anything else. And after the dwindling trickle of episodes we've had for the past 10 or so years, 13 episodes plus a Christmas special, year in, year out would be radical. In every sense.
True enough.
I wouldn't feel short-changed with 10 eps + a special though, if it could be kept on a regular schedule.
Even eight or nine episodes a year (plus a Christmas special of course) would be okay, especially if COVID is making it harder to film. I think for the next few years it's vital to make it a regular event again, Autumn (even if it's late Autumn) through to December.
JUST WANT PROPER WHO BACK
Isn't it obvious at this point that the split seasons and diminished episode counts are a product of BBC budget restrictions rather than and production difficulty in putting out that many episodes every year? And Bad Wolf is stumping up cash now.
Covid might complicate things, but it's not like big crowd scenes are essential to Who.
Hm, just occurred to me - did Covid not happen in the Whoniverse, given the dates in Flux?
Quote from: Mister Six on December 14, 2021, 10:20:40 PMIsn't it obvious at this point that the split seasons and diminished episode counts are a product of BBC budget restrictions rather than and production difficulty in putting out that many episodes every year? And Bad Wolf is stumping up cash now.
I don't know about obvious, I know it's a popular view of things but I've never been totally convinced.
Quote from: mjwilson on December 14, 2021, 10:27:57 PMI don't know about obvious, I know it's a popular view of things but I've never been totally convinced.
I thought Moffat had said something to that effect?
But in any case, the production team were able to put out 14 episodes a year apparently without issue until the switch to HD - which would have meant a hike in the cost of CGI, and IIRC came around some concern over licence fees again. Don't really see why a properly staffed production team couldn't keep up the output - and if the production team isn't properly staffed, that'll swing back around to cost, won't it?
I thought Moffat's schedule (e.g. Sherlock at the same time) had something to do with the split series? Or does the timeline not bear that out?
Quote from: mothman on December 14, 2021, 11:21:20 PMI thought Moffat's schedule (e.g. Sherlock at the same time) had something to do with the split series? Or does the timeline not bear that out?
I think that was just people's speculation at the time. He was openly taking blame for things that were out of his control.
Ah, so never confirmed as such? Gotcha, ta.
Quote from: Mister Six on December 14, 2021, 10:20:40 PMHm, just occurred to me - did Covid not happen in the Whoniverse, given the dates in Flux?
I don't think we're entirely certain on whether Miracle Day even happened in
Doctor Who, given the dates in Series 6.
I don't watch any soaps, but has Covid happened in the worlds of
Corrie,
EastEnders, and
Emmerdale? Or have they gone the escapist route, depicting their routine local murder, domestic abuse, and financial strife
sans pandemic? If so, that must be the biggest deviation from the real world in their histories.
I don't read a lot of contemporary fiction, but one book I did read (the latest by spy author Charles Cumming) made a few references to COVID as something that'd been overcome and was now in the past. I imagine there'll be a lot of that whatever the medium - post-COVID fiction. Has to be better than a lot of the pandemic fiction there's been, wasn't there a universally-panned lockdown heist movie?
And, yeah, if the soaps have been ignoring it altogether, then that means they're now alternate history tales - with audiences Harry Turtledove can only dream of!
I haven't watched Eastenders in years, so apologies if this is way off, but isn't every episode set over the space of a day? I'm sure I recall each episode starting in the morning and ending at night. Which means that unless you get seven a week, then they're always going to be off, with Christmas coming around every 200 days or something.
You're thinking of Twin Peaks.
No, that is true about Eastenders, but it always kept time. When it first started events in Walford only ever happened on a Tuesday or Thursday. You'd occasionally have characters arranging to meet up, but they could never say tomorrow, they'd have to suggest Thursday. They were so locked into this that when they introduced a Friday episode it was like Fridays couldn't exist in that universe, so they were all set on Thursday nights to begin with. What was Phil up to on Wednesday? Nothing. Phil did not exist on Wednesday.
Quote from: Rev+ on December 15, 2021, 02:37:46 AMPhil did not exist on Wednesday.
To be fair, a main character not existing at certain points in time does sound
very Lynchian.
Quote from: Mister Six on December 14, 2021, 10:20:40 PMIsn't it obvious at this point that the split seasons and diminished episode counts are a product of BBC budget restrictions rather than and production difficulty in putting out that many episodes every year? And Bad Wolf is stumping up cash now.
I think that was possibly the case, at least to some extent, during the Moffat years (although his dual commitment with Sherlock may have also played into it), but I think the further reduction in episode count when Chibnall took over was down to Chibnall. I know he said at the time that even 10 episodes per series was bordering on too much work, but I find that difficult to square with how lazily written and first-drafty most of his scripts come across. He certainly seems to have a very different idea from RTD of how much work is too much.
Quote from: Mister Six on December 14, 2021, 10:20:40 PMHm, just occurred to me - did Covid not happen in the Whoniverse, given the dates in Flux?
On the DW wiki, there's mentions of it in the Lockdown videos produced with Jodie Whittaker and others, but aside from that there's only distantly related spinoffs that mention it at all.
I suppose The Doctor might have turned up at some point and nipped it in the bud some time in 2020.
Quote from: olliebean on December 15, 2021, 09:21:15 AMHe certainly seems to have a very different idea from RTD of how much work is too much.
True, although RTD sounds dangerously workaholic
Quote from: Nowhere Man on December 15, 2021, 04:16:14 AMTo be fair, a main character not existing at certain points in time does sound very Lynchian.
EastEnd Empire.
I had an idea that it could be passed off as enough of a "fixed point" that the Doctor didn't interfere, as humans would be able to deal with it themselves, but did in various incarnations help out. The Sixth Doctor delivering groceries, the Seventh helping out in a care home, the Second running a creche for the kids of essential workers, that sort of thing.
"Look at the size of that pandemic"
"Yes, Jamie, it's a big one"
This was on the Old Who thread, but it seems appropriate here too - RTD's novelisation of his kids' TV series Dark Season is getting a Big Finish-produced audiobook, read by the star of the show herself,
Kate Winslet Victoria Lambert.
I remember RTD being delighted years back that he could make the villains openly lesbian in the novelisation, rather than just lesbian-coded. Probably won't be bigging that one up today, mind.
He also talks about possibly doing more Dark Season stuff, although I don't know when he'll find the time. I can imagine he's been holding onto a few ideas for years, mind.
Announcement video here:
Now, where's my gritty reboot of Breakfast Serials?
Quote from: Bad Ambassador on December 15, 2021, 04:19:28 PMI had an idea that it could be passed off as enough of a "fixed point" that the Doctor didn't interfere, as humans would be able to deal with it themselves, but did in various incarnations help out. The Sixth Doctor delivering groceries, the Seventh helping out in a care home, the Second running a creche for the kids of essential workers, that sort of thing.
Lovely idea but I can't picture the sixth Doctor carrying groceries. He'd be striding ahead, pointing the way, while Peri laboured under all the weight by herself.
I imagined him driving the van for a major chain, but yes, Peri would clearly be lugging the boxes to the door.
https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2021/dec/22/russell-t-davies-i-genuinely-thought-who-wants-to-watch-a-show-about-aids
Quote"I've already written some of the episodes. The first will go out in November 2023 – that's the 60th anniversary of the show." Give us a scoop then, I beg. He says he can't. Is Olly Alexander the new Doctor? "Behave! Stop it! We have genuinely not cast anyone yet. We're just starting auditions."
I know better than to believe that!
Yeah it beggars belief that he wouldn't go back to it without at least a shortlist if not just the one he wants.
Quote from: Huxleys Babkins on December 14, 2021, 02:46:21 PMIs it too late to save Chibnall's console room from the skip? There's so much junk cluttering the view you could even have all cocks going in and out and nobody would be any the wiser.
It's not so noticeable with all the other bits of the set, but if you have a look at a picture of the current Tardis console alone, it does look kind of phallic.
Quote from: mothman on December 22, 2021, 02:39:15 PMYeah it beggars belief that he wouldn't go back to it without at least a shortlist if not just the one he wants.
Maybe just auditioning the shortlist? Everyone from Smith on (inclusive) has had to do an audition of some sort. maybe Tennant did too, actually, I forget - did he audition at the same time as Eccles, but get earmarked for the first post-Eccles doc?
Quote from: Dayraven on December 22, 2021, 02:53:43 PMIt's not so noticeable with all the other bits of the set, but if you have a look at a picture of the current Tardis console alone, it does look kind of phallic.
Jodie's is the only console that I can't clearly picture. Even Eccleston's/Tennant's mildly chaotic array had a memorable sort of order to it, with plenty of purposeful actions. You can barely see Jodie's between the gammy plastic columns.
I had a review video on in the background earlier, and it reminded me that - with Bel, Vinder, and the many space refugees generated by the Flux - the human race of the Whoniverse is now firmly established throughout the stars as early as 2021. Presumably much earlier considering the advanced state of their colonies and civilisations. The sort of glaring world-building slipup that RTD will surely have noticed whilst watching.
'member that line of the Doctor's about
refugees of the Flux looking to
invade? kin ell. And remember when the prospect of wiping out an enemy species would consume the thematic buildup of an entire series, with tensions and conflicts and questions, leading to moments like
'coward, any day' and the fiftieth anniversary?
There's nowt going in under the surface is there? Just stuff moving around. Nothing under Chibs' nib.
Ballad of Ballard Berkley sums it up all perfectly in his spoiler-free review of the last episode of Flux.
Quote from: Ballad of Ballard Berkley on December 02, 2021, 05:09:08 PMIt's just a barrage of stuff being thrown at you by a fool.
Quote from: Thomas on December 22, 2021, 09:20:26 PMit reminded me that - with Bel, Vinder, and the many space refugees generated by the Flux - the human race of the Whoniverse is now firmly established throughout the stars as early as 2021.
I just assumed they were human-looking aliens, same as the Time Lords, until I watched Chibs' BBC summary video in which he refers to them as humans and my jaw dropped. Did it just not occur to him that you need to explain why there are spacefaring human beings living on distant planets (I assume, although it's unclear as to exactly how Bel got to the Karvinista's Earth-shield and nabbed a ship) on October 31, 2021?
I thought there was some time compression shit happening with the Flux, and people from different eras got mushed together. But I can't remember if that was explained, or if I dreamed it up as a way to unfuck the story.
Yeah, it was mentioned that time was fucking up. Maybe after the first two statue things were destroyed or something? I dunno.
I got the impression that time was only fucking up on Bel's planet, and not in the wider cosmos. And even then basically just in one scene, hell one shot, and then never referred to again.
Time was still constrained throughout the story, after all. And people mostly just time-travelled via those time-doors (which weren't explained), the TARDIS, or those time-pedestals in the Temple of Atropos.
FAKE EDIT: Wait, something caused Dan to appear in the modern day while The Doctor and Yaz ended up at the Crimea, but I can't remember what it was. But that was it, I think.
It was just stuff happening, wasn't it? No rules, no consistency, no real explanations (despite everyone constantly narrating their every move and circumstance at all times). Just... stuff.
I think the time doors were another symptom of time being disrupted.
Quote from: Mister Six on December 23, 2021, 12:11:12 AMFAKE EDIT: Wait, something caused Dan to appear in the modern day while The Doctor and Yaz ended up at the Crimea, but I can't remember what it was. But that was it, I think.
IIRC, they all ended up in the Crimea, and then very shortly afterwards Dan was transported off to the modern day by means and for reasons that were never really explained ("a collision between Flux and Vortex energy," apparently), and then immediately after that Yaz was transported by, presumably, the same means, to the temple of Atropos - where she met Vinder, who was also somehow there by means that were never explained.
Quote from: Thomas on December 22, 2021, 09:20:26 PMJodie's is the only console that I can't clearly picture. Even Eccleston's/Tennant's mildly chaotic array had a memorable sort of order to it, with plenty of purposeful actions. You can barely see Jodie's between the gammy plastic columns.
Compared to all the others, it's extraordinarily bland.
(https://pyxis.nymag.com/v1/imgs/4f7/881/762ac600669b674099b3607ae39dade200-30-doctor-who-tardis-05.2x.h473.w710.jpg)
Quote from: purlieu on December 23, 2021, 09:08:15 AMI think the time doors were another symptom of time being disrupted.
But thingy found them "before" the Flux, didn't he? Although I'm not sure whether that matters. Again, unclear writing.
Quote from: olliebean on December 23, 2021, 12:11:49 PMIIRC, they all ended up in the Crimea, and then very shortly afterwards Dan was transported off to the modern day by means and for reasons that were never really explained ("a collision between Flux and Vortex energy," apparently), and then immediately after that Yaz was transported by, presumably, the same means, to the temple of Atropos - where she met Vinder, who was also somehow there by means that were never explained.
So that's a situation unique to the TARDIS crew rather than being purely Flux-related. Except for Vinder, I guess, but again, that's unclear writing from Chibbers.
Quote from: olliebean on December 23, 2021, 12:20:39 PMCompared to all the others, it's extraordinarily bland.
(https://pyxis.nymag.com/v1/imgs/4f7/881/762ac600669b674099b3607ae39dade200-30-doctor-who-tardis-05.2x.h473.w710.jpg)
But it dispenses biscuits, don't forget.
Spoiler alert
Bland ones!
If they'd gone all-out Aztec Zone on it, it would have been half-decent.
The key to a decent console is having loads of stuff to fuck about with, like a massive Fisher Price activity centre for grown ups. You need to want to touch it, even if it's not safe or doesn't make any sense. Like when Matt Smith grabs onto the dials in the Hartnell biopic.
Chibnall's console is way too clean and minimalist. So much empty, wasted space.
The entire TARDIS space needs to appeal to autistic sensibilities - it needs to feel calm and safe from outside threat, and the console should be something you'd like to clasp and fiddle with.
The next TARDIS console should be a massive one of these:
(https://www.thetoyshop.com/medias/553457-Primary-1200Wx1200H?context=bWFzdGVyfGltYWdlc3wyMzY5NzB8aW1hZ2UvanBlZ3xpbWFnZXMvaDhjL2hiOS85NTc2MTc3Nzk1MTAyLmpwZ3xiOTYxNTdlMGMwNjZkZGUzMjU1YWIxNmQ4MDI3ZDFmODkzNWRhMDZmYjg5NTgzMDkzNDMzYzZlZWExOGI0NmRk)
Then the Doctor would have a logical sensory reason to become male again.
Have to lock John Barrowman out of there for good, as well, so win-win.
The Smith 2/Capaldi console had that weird rainbow bit you're meant to put your hands inside. Psychic something or other, some bollocks. Anyway I want to put my hands in it
Some people here disliked that but I thought it was good. Nice fleshy portion and yes, it was for psychic interaction. Not sure why the TARDIS needed it for psychic reading considering everything else it could do psychically anyway, but who cares. Nice hunk of fleshy goodness.
Yeah it looked proper satisfying and tactile. I'm next in the queue for a squidge of it.
It's probably in the break room of some commercial waste tip in Cardiff and the workers all take turns on it.
Quote from: Replies From View on December 23, 2021, 02:32:59 PMThe entire TARDIS space needs to appeal to autistic sensibilities - it needs to feel calm and safe from outside threat, and the console should be something you'd like to clasp and fiddle with.
Levers and buttons out the arse, that's what we want
Like a movie about NASA made in 1982
Quote from: Huxleys Babkins on December 23, 2021, 03:29:25 PMIt's probably in the break room of some commercial waste tip in Cardiff and the workers all take turns on it.
ick
As a Davison fanboy I always loved the Five Doctors console. All those banks of keyboards, and that pull-out door control. Mmm.
Quote from: Jerzy Bondov on December 23, 2021, 02:56:44 PMThe Smith 2/Capaldi console had that weird rainbow bit you're meant to put your hands inside. Psychic something or other, some bollocks. Anyway I want to put my hands in it
MEMO
From: RTD
To: Production Design
Chaps - any chance of a TARDIS console you can FIST?
Cheers,
Rusty
Ah, I did really like the console from the Five Doctors onwards, even though it ran on a BBC Micro.
I had an Atari 65XE and it was like that on a grand scale, a beautiful thing
You can tell that's a copy because the real one didn't even have proper buttons
Still doesn't excuse Sylvester McCoy's 'waggle my fingers in the air nowhere near them' routine though, although it was 35 years ago so perhaps I ought to let it go
Quote from: pigamus on December 23, 2021, 04:28:16 PMStill doesn't excuse Sylvester McCoy's 'waggle my fingers in the air nowhere near them' routine though, although it was 35 years ago so perhaps I ought to let it go
Psychic controls.
Saw a sponsored FB link today which said RTD will be showrunner for two years - until the 20th anniversary of the relaunch in 2025. Which I guess ties in with what we anticipated - he'll get the show back on an even keel and set a couple of Whoniverse spin-offs up and running before possibly continuing as an executive producer of the whole shebang.
Any source given for that?
In Doctor Who terms, two years could easily mean only one series.
"Showrunner" is just another term for main executive producer anyway, isn't it? I'd be perfectly happy if he was hanging around as executive producer and somebody else was head writer / script editor. It's a structural change that should arguably have taken place before someone like Chibnall could show that not just any old clunk could be Doctor Who showrunner.
Production Weekly is saying that RTD's Who will begin filming in spring 2022, which means we're probably only a month or two out from an announcement on the 14th Doctor.
(https://i.imgur.com/mFUewX4.jpg)
Just reading The Writer's Tale and thinking, "Russell, you fool! Why are you doing this to yourself again?"
Actually, I think he's probably asking the same question. But the answer is obvious - he's got a restless, brilliant creative mind, an obsessive nature and a love for Doctor Who. It's coming up on 10 years since RTD had a televised Who episode go out, and you just know he's had ideas - images, characters, moments - bubbling around in his head that whole time. At least a couple of seasons' worth, I'll bet.
And I know he knows he's writing for an audience in The Writer's Tale, even if the audience is just Benjamin Cook, but his prose is just vibrating with joy, charm and enthusiasm. It's impossible to imagine Chibnall doing something like this. His emails must read like beige wallpaper.
Anyone think we'll get a reveal after the New Year's Day episode?
A big reveal of Chibnall baring his arse and cackling at the viewers: "Two more episodes to go, suckers!"
One of which will pull in a broader audience than usual Doctor Who, and put them off for life. 👍
Quote from: Mister Six on December 30, 2021, 06:29:16 PMJust reading The Writer's Tale and thinking, "Russell, you fool! Why are you doing this to yourself again?"
Yeah, reading that you do think 'christ, why would you go back?' Or maybe he knows what he's getting into better so can going to spread the load a bit more. I guess if he's setting up a number of Who-connected series from the off, that's a different creative challenge too, something to get your teeth into.
I expect, with over a decade and a half more experience under his belt, he's probably got better at managing his workload.
Interesting use of 'her' in the description on that image. FEMALE DOCTOR CONFIRMED.
Quote from: purlieu on December 30, 2021, 06:38:29 PMAnyone think we'll get a reveal after the New Year's Day episode?
Makes sense, if they want to excite people after the shitfest that was Flux. Alternatively, maybe it's better to hold off for a month so Who gets a bit of a boost during a quiet time in the schedules, and to reinvigorate people after whatever dross Chibnall shits out for the New Year.
Expect the Beeb to go nuts promoting RTD's series as it films, too. Meet the new Doctor! Check out the new TARDIS! See the filming of the new villains!
Also we have two more Chris Chibnall episodes, sorry everyone.Really want Chibnall to get drunk and chin RTD or something so Davies and Cook don't feel the need to avoid raising Flux etc in the inevitable return of The Writer's Tale. Davies is too genial though, and of course he'll gush over Chibnall "(ah, wonderful old Chris, such bold ideas - I knew he'd go places as soon as I read his Torchwood episodes)".
Dame Judy Dench "not fucked" about playing the Doctor, she says on breakfast programme when asked by a child viewer.
I paraphrase.
It seems to have gone quiet. Now wondering if they are going to actually (try to) keep it secret until the regeneration. After all, the quick post-regen sting or teaser or whatever it's called ("Barcelona!" / "Geronimo!" / "How do you fly this thing?" / "Oh - brilliant!") could be filmed using the new Doctor under very strictly secret conditions, since their new series won't start filming till next year...
It could literally be filmed a couple of weeks before the actual broadcast, which I would be totally behind. If only because it would make me tune in to live telly for the first time in years.
It's a shame that RTD won't be responsible for the BBC's 100th thing. He has strong views about the BBC and its political management / ultimate planned demise, while I suspect Chibnall hasn't a fucking clue and will just do a wacky, thick-headed romp within a CGI recreation of Television House, with appalling meta jokes thrown in about Doctor Who being developed there.
Phil Collinson's back for S14.
Quote from: Bad Ambassador on January 20, 2022, 01:42:47 PMPhil Collinson's back for S14.
Read that as Phil Collins there!
No Jackie Required
Face Value of Boe
Another Day In Paradise Towers
Susanssudio
Genesis of the Daleks
Missyunderstanding
Keep It Dalek
Two Hearts
Against All Ood
Unit, Unit, Unit
psst, reader
what are they going on about
No Sontaran Of Mine
Invisible Vardan
If Leaving Me In Aberdeen Is Easy
A Groovy Kinda Love
Quote from: pigamus on January 21, 2022, 12:00:16 AMA Groovy Kinda Love
Let's just stop here, nobody's topping this.
Quote from: Mister Six on January 21, 2022, 12:06:40 AMLet's just stop here, nobody's topping this.
The Aberdeen one is better
You Can't Harry Love
Apocalypse in 9/8 (episodes)
Quote from: mothman on January 20, 2022, 07:20:50 PMUnit, Unit, Unit
I love this, despite it not working on any level
Quote from: pigamus on January 21, 2022, 10:52:55 AMI love this, despite it not working on any level
Me in a nutshell. But - sing it! It works.
David Tennant back as The Doctor?
https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/celebs-tv/doctor-who-david-tennant-cast-6531823?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar
Of all the modern Doctors, Tennant is the one i'm least enthused about seeing more of
It doesn't seem especially credible to me.
"it makes more sense than you might think"
No it doesn't.
QuoteThe tip off was spotted on a Facebook fan page, in which a user suggested a credible BBC source had leaked the information.
The chinny reckon is strong with this one.
I wouldn't be surprised. We live in the age of rehash after all.
I've never understood the wishful thinking for Tennant to return. With the War Doctor taken into account, he was incarnations 11 and 12 of the new era. It's a bizarre sense of entitlement (and limited imagination for the scope of the show) that he should do more, outside of multi-Doctor celebrations.
A certain demographic of fan have been fantasising about Tennant coming back even before the Younger Hotter One became the Totally Old Gross One. Would laugh if Moffat had predicted it and had the Curator say:
Quote from: The Great CuratorAnd in years to come, you might might find yourself... revisiting a few. But not that skinny twat who just left, OK?
If they want to dip backwards, bring back Paul McGann and give him the few series he deserves. Never happen though.
Quote from: oy vey on January 22, 2022, 05:08:45 PMIf they want to dip backwards, bring back Paul McGann and give him the few series he deserves. Never happen though.
Always wanted more of the retirement vibe McCoy we saw at the start of the movie, too.
It's bollocks, of course. RTD is smart enough to know that they need to look forward. Tennant back for the 60th (along with Smith), which will also be the new Doc's first episode? I think that's almost certainly a lock - and if these rumours are based on anything at all, that's the origin.
Next Doc will be a woman or a person of colour. Leaning towards person (woman?) of colour. I doubt Tennant would even want to come back full-time anyway.
Quote from: Mister Six on January 22, 2022, 06:05:51 PMIt's bollocks, of course. RTD is smart enough to know that they need to look forward.
How much you prepared to bet?
Surely RTD will be tempted to go for a non-binary Doctor - it'll bin off all the man or woman arguments and simultaneously wind everyone up?
Casting Tennant again would be a hugely retrograde step. As would having him and Smith return for the 60th, even.
When has the Plymouth Herald ever been wrong?
McGann helping the new Doctor through a regeneration for the 60th.
Quote from: Norton Canes on January 22, 2022, 06:50:58 PMCasting Tennant again would be a hugely retrograde step. As would having him and Smith return for the 60th, even.
After Day of the Doctor and Twice Upon A Time, the very concept of previous Doctors needed a proper rest until the next big anniversary. If the next showrunner had done the right thing, we'd have had fresh adventures, new monsters, new mysteries and no mention whatsoever of past eras or Gallifrey/Doctor mythology.
Of course then Chibnall came blundering in with his ruination knackers and bashed us all in the head with Time Lord lore and Doctor history, making everyone thoroughly allergic to any form of inward-looking, past-Doctor stories for about three decades.
So that's good.
I can see him, as I think I've said before, going for a big name short-term Doctor, perhaps only for the 60th, perhaps for 3 specials as suggested in that article, but if he does this it should be someone completely unexpected - not bloody Tennant again. The vibe needs to be new and exciting and a bit unpredictable, not old and well-trodden like a worn out pair of slippers.
Quote from: pigamus on January 22, 2022, 06:41:09 PMHow much you prepared to bet?
How much
you prepared to bet?
Tennant coming back for a special, or even for an impish wrong-footing gag I could see (although I doubt Tennant would go for it), but permanently, as the 14th Doctor? Absolutely no chance.
Quote from: Norton Canes on January 22, 2022, 06:50:58 PMCasting Tennant again would be a hugely retrograde step. As would having him and Smith return for the 60th, even.
Nah, it's an anniversary, and the only chance they'll have before the 75th. The only reason not to do it is to avoid overshadowing the new Doctor.
They could do a 1st for Dr Who and pick up what was hinted at with The Curator...that is have an actor return to the role but play it as a totally new characterisation...so 10th and 14th played by Tennant but 14th wildly different persona and look...
Quote from: Blofelds Cat on January 22, 2022, 07:40:16 PMThey could do a 1st for Dr Who and pick up what was hinted at with The Curator...that is have an actor return to the role but play it as a totally new characterisation...so 10th and 14th played by Tennant but 14th wildly different persona and look...
That would be so shit though. It would be shit and RTD knows that's not how to move the show forward.
Chibnall has made the show eat itself and to save it, RTD needs to work especially hard to stop it looking backwards and actually be fresh and exciting again.
Suddenly backtracking on that to please a few people who never let go of the Tennant era would be beyond stupid, and also deeply, deeply shit. In fact, considering where the show is now and the urgency by which it needs repair, doing that would kill the show dead for a decade at least.
And we all know it, so why are some people here even entertaining it.
Quote from: pigamus on January 22, 2022, 08:04:08 PMA tenner
You're on! Has to be Tennant playing the 14th Doctor in a full-time (minimum 1 season) position, though. Not Tennant coming back as 10th Doctor/metacrisis Doctor, or Tennant playing a temporary Doctor between Whittaker and the next one as a little audience-baiting trick or something.
Quote from: Replies From View on January 22, 2022, 08:09:35 PMChibnall has made the show eat itself and to save it, RTD needs to work especially hard to stop it looking backwards and actually be fresh and exciting again.
Absolutely, and anyone who thinks RTD isn't thinking this is in denial or just completely mad.
I imagine the return will be recognisable as Davies Who in tone and form (although I'd love to be wrong-footed there, especially after Years And Years, It's A Sin etc) but - at least at the start - it's going to have to go in completely new. New Doctor, new companion, minimal backstory, re-establish a simple status quo with whatever wreckage Chibnall leaves behind, new baddies, maybe the odd Dalek or Cyberman because they're universal at this point. But definitely not David Tennant popping up, especially playing a different character to the one he played before, which will confuse and alienate absolutely everyone except a tiny number of hardcore Who fans.
Quote from: Replies From View on January 22, 2022, 08:09:35 PMThat would be so shit though. It would be shit and RTD knows that's not how to move the show forward.
Chibnall has made the show eat itself and to save it, RTD needs to work especially hard to stop it looking backwards and actually be fresh and exciting again.
Suddenly backtracking on that to please a few people who never let go of the Tennant era would be beyond stupid, and also deeply, deeply shit. In fact, considering where the show is now and the urgency by which it needs repair, doing that would kill the show dead for a decade at least.
And we all know it, so why are some people here even entertaining it.
Ha Ha!
Rattled a few cages here!
Not for one minute saying I support this...
for me they need to draw a line under Nu Who and have a distinctive new tone and feel...as big a change as 1970 and 2005 and blow the audience out of their seats...on non genre forums i lurk on the show is loathed and is perceived to be cheap and tired...audiences now are more savvy and expect feature film techniques and production values...
I reckon we will not see the changeover from JW to 14...you may get a hint..say her hand start to glow...or she may just wave farewell as she leaves in the TARDIS...but it will have to be a break from the skip fire that Chinballs has left...
My moneys on a massive star to generate interest...all this talk of Olly Nomark can fcuk right off...
Will it be a soft reboot or a year zero restart...dunno...the reason I mentioned Tennant returning was the news that Collinson coming back which is a bit disheartening tbh and smells of playing it safe...
Quote from: olliebean on January 22, 2022, 07:08:53 PMI can see him, as I think I've said before, going for a big name short-term Doctor, perhaps only for the 60th, perhaps for 3 specials as suggested in that article, but if he does this it should be someone completely unexpected - not bloody Tennant again. The vibe needs to be new and exciting and a bit unpredictable, not old and well-trodden like a worn out pair of slippers.
Hugh Grant. Keep saying it but ver wokerati 😉 won't hear of it, nope, it's gotta be a disabled black lesbian or the gammons will have won.
Quote from: Blofelds Cat on January 22, 2022, 07:40:16 PMThey could do a 1st for Dr Who and pick up what was hinted at with The Curator...that is have an actor return to the role but play it as a totally new characterisation...so 10th and 14th played by Tennant but 14th wildly different persona and look...
I guess I'm the only one who really likes this idea. He could have different hair and EVERYTHING.
Quote from: canted_angle_again on January 22, 2022, 09:59:57 PMI guess I'm the only one who really likes this idea. He could have different hair and EVERYTHING.
Black up with pony tail and wearing an eye patch and Benoit Blanc accent...
That's really not far from this wreck...
https://www.google.com/search?q=david+tennant+fright+night&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwiyn-vFtcb1AhUKvxQKHUMMCJsQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=david+tennant+fright+night&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQAzIFCAAQgAQyBggAEAUQHjIGCAAQCBAeOgcIIxDvAxAnOgQIABAYOgsIABCABBCxAxCDAToICAAQgAQQsQM6BAgAEB5Q0gJYkB9ggSBoAHAAeACAAeIBiAGfFZIBBzE0LjEwLjGYAQCgAQGqAQtnd3Mtd2l6LWltZ8ABAQ&sclient=img&ei=l4bsYfL3NIr-UsOYoNgJ&bih=754&biw=1536
Netto own brand Russell Brand
The future is about Ben Whitehead now. He's the new Wallace so it stands to reason he will also be the new Doctor.
Next Bond too?
Also, new iteration of the Watcher looks mental:
https://twitter.com/rosebudbenoni/status/1484919883267809283
You can't HARRY love
Quote from: oy vey on January 22, 2022, 05:08:45 PMIf they want to dip backwards, bring back Paul McGann and give him the few series he deserves. Never happen though.
Or Colin Baker.
But definitely not Tennant.
As people have already said, this is either pure bullshit or connected to the 60th Anniversary, for which he'll almost certainly be asked to play the Doctor again along with all of the other non-current Doctors whose actors are still alive.
I mean, I love Capaldi's Doctor, but having him come back to play the role long-term again would be an enormous cop-out, and an insult to everyone else involved.
For me Capaldi is about the only returner I'd countenance. Just because his character took so long to bed in. Smith seems to be obviously done with it all plus he's in the "next Game Of Thrones" (literally, and, they hope, figuratively); but maybe Capaldi is done with it too.
Tennant is doing OK. Granted being the Doctor may not have catapulted him into massive cross-Atlantic superstardom like he might have hoped, but he's a well known actor even if mostly just TV. I'm not sure what he might hope to get from coming back unless he just really enjoyed playing the role. And the fanwankers who want Ten back, want Ten back (ideally, with Rose too). They're not going to want a Doctor who looks like Ten but plays the role differently.
I like to think that in some ways the attributes and experiences of one incarnation can influence and inform the "choice" of next regeneration. It's a weird personal belief I have, which doesn't stand up to a great degree of scrutiny! What I'm saying is though, it doesn't feel like this Doctor is at the point where she might subconsciously or consciously choose "one of the old favourites."
Isn't this more likely for a separate Who series alongside the main one though as part of the 'Whoniverse' concept? I'd be perfectly happy any of the more recent Doctors coming back for a series or two doing their own thing. Could recast some of the early Doctors too.
I'd love a series with the Doctor interacting with loads of different Timelords, could work well there, perhaps better than in the main Who series, maybe McGann in a pre-Time War series where it has a Cold War vibe with spies and twists or summat like that.
Quote from: mothman on January 23, 2022, 02:03:50 PMmaybe Capaldi is done with it too.
Capaldi has stated that he has no desire to return to the role in any capacity. It's not an Eccleston situation but he has effectively ruled himself out.
I don't know if it makes a difference to anyone, but even if he
did fancy dipping his toes back in for an anniversary cameo, he wouldn't be growing his luscious series 10 hair back. So it'd be his series 8 hair or a wig.
Quote from: mothman on January 23, 2022, 02:03:50 PMSmith seems to be obviously done with it all plus he's in the "next Game Of Thrones" (literally, and, they hope, figuratively)
Matt Smith is 40 this year. Mad, innit, considering that he famously used to not be nearly 40.
The 60th anniversary would be an odd way to introduce a new Doctor. Bringing Tennant back for a one-off seems plausible.
Quote from: Weeping Prophet on January 23, 2022, 04:09:59 PMThe 60th anniversary would be an odd way to introduce a new Doctor. Bringing Tennant back for a one-off seems plausible.
How so? Seems far odder to not have the new Doctor make their debut at the first available opportunity, and instead flip back 13 years and three Doctors. Would just confuse the audience, especially as Who will have been off screens for over a year (not even an Xmas/NYE special!) at that point.
You can do a 60th without guest appearances by previous Doctors, just hold them off for the 75th (which might be for the best, since Capaldi and Eccles won't be back, and Whittaker can't appear right after her regeneration). Or you focus on the new Doc and use the old Docs to contrast his new personality.
The more I think about it, the more I think it's too soon to have Tenant, Smith or Capaldi back. It wouldn't feel special at all. I'd much rather have a classic era Doctor back for the 60th, as we've not had that happen before in the new series. Or at least one of the classic actors back in a different role.
Quote from: Jack Shaftoe on January 23, 2022, 02:11:25 PMI'd love a series with the Doctor interacting with loads of different Timelords, could work well there, perhaps better than in the main Who series, maybe McGann in a pre-Time War series where it has a Cold War vibe with spies and twists or summat like that.
There's no way a great idea like this would be allowed to happen.
I want it to be called Doctor Doctor Doctor Spy.
Tennant fans who are that bloody obsessed with having more Tennant have Big Finish to go to if they're that bothered.
Honestly, the only Doctor I want to see back at this point is McGann, because he hasn't had a fair screen opportunity and he'll be 78 by the time of the 75th. A Time War-weary Eight helping the Doctor through an awkward regeneration. It'll be great. Come on Russell. I'll forgive the farting aliens, Love and Monsters, Kylie and the routinely bad conclusions to two parters if you do it.
Quote from: Kelvin on January 23, 2022, 05:48:11 PMThe more I think about it, the more I think it's too soon to have Tenant, Smith or Capaldi back. It wouldn't feel special at all. I'd much rather have a classic era Doctor back for the 60th, as we've not had that happen before in the new series. Or at least one of the classic actors back in a different role.
A good point. To follow Whitaker with one of the recents would be such a repudiation of progressive casting, they might as well make Laurence Fox the 14th Doctor.
Quote from: Weeping Prophet on January 23, 2022, 04:09:59 PMThe 60th anniversary would be an odd way to introduce a new Doctor. Bringing Tennant back for a one-off seems plausible.
We've learned from the TV Movie that this is exactly the wrong way to approach a new era of Doctor Who.
If RTD doesn't resist the temptation to have some of his old favourites back for the 60th, he's going to need to work doubly hard afterwards to set his new era apart from his earlier one. I think that Chibnall bringing back Captain Jack lets RTD off that particular hook of expectation, and likewise Chibnall has worn out any desire for audiences to see past Doctors explored onscreen, for better or worse.
There's a tradition for past Doctors on an anniversary like this, but that doesn't mean it's a rule. It's hard to imagine how RTD will resist the temptation, but maybe he'll be able to think about this celebration without all that baggage and approach it more like 'Rose' than 'The Five Doctors'.
I imagine Chibnall will also cover some of this ground with his BBC 100th anniversary special. He could quite feasibly stuff the cast of 'The Five(ish) Doctors (Reboot)' into that, as well as Tennant and Smith, leaving RTD free to do his own thing.
Quote from: Kelvin on January 23, 2022, 05:48:11 PMOr at least one of the classic actors back in a different role.
I was sort of thinking you could have the old Doctors' actors playing different characters, as some kind of post-regen hallucination for the new Doctor, but then I realised that (A) RTD hates dream sequences, (B) the actors probably wouldn't want to do that anyway, (C) it'd be confusing and needlessly fanwanky at a time when the show needs to be bold and new, and (D) it's shit.
TBH I reckon ignoring the 60th anniversary except thematically (and maybe with some supporting specials like Night of The Doctor/The Five(ish) Doctors Reboot) might be the best idea. Then - if the show/cast/Earth lasts long enough - get everyone back for the 75th.
^ this post was written before Mister Six's post above
-----
Or, actually, screw Chibnall's rubbish BBC 100th thing - the 60th anniversary romp stuff would be amply covered by Peter Davison creating a sequel to Five(ish) Doctors (something he talked about wanting to do anyway for a few years after 2013, but couldn't think of a good enough story or justification).
Honestly, who wouldn't be happy with just that, and RTD kicking off his new tenure with a story that doesn't feature any old faces at all?
Yeah, that'd be ideal. I think RTD is smart enough to know it needs to be the freshest start possible. Tennant and Smith back to get bums on seats maybe, but nobody else is likely to be involved, surely?
I wonder whether a cinema screening would be on the cards.
If so, RTD might have an opportunity to create a Doctor Who movie with no restrictions whatsoever.
What do people have in their minds for a hypothetical "fresh-start" 60th anniversary story? I'm finding it hard to think outside the paradigm of existing RTD and Moffat stories, where 'Rose' and 'The Eleventh Hour' are about the closest anyone has got to creating 'hop-on' episodes with absolutely no baggage whatsoever. I'm discounting Chibnall's episode because I never liked it as much as anyone else and it didn't do anything new.
I still think The Woman Who Fell to Earth is pretty good, and it felt very different to early versions. It's been tainted somewhat by the direction of Chibnall's subsequent series, but at the time it felt like it could have been the start of a different version of the show. Maybe the quality is more in the potential than the episode itself, but there's something about it feeling more cinematic and yet strangely small-scale at the same time that could really have worked in the long term.
RTD can either go for a modern update of the broad, family friendly version, or maybe try for a very more gritty style of things like Years & Years. Tonally, I kind of prefer his first show, Dark Season, to his earlier Who series, because it had a real paranoia about something very nasty going on behind the scenes, which only appeared occasionally in Who. Despite it being very much a CBBC show, something about it actually feels a lot darker than his version of Who. I really wouldn't mind something like that.
Quote from: Replies From View on January 23, 2022, 07:10:13 PMI wonder whether a cinema screening would be on the cards.
If so, RTD might have an opportunity to create a Doctor Who movie with no restrictions whatsoever.
No restrictions? It'd still have to be screenable on BBC TV, and conform to whatever the new budgets are.
EDIT: I've just remembered that he mentions disliking seeing one of the specials, maybe Voyage of the Damned, on a cinema screen at a press event because the direction is all wrong for that format. I wonder if the anamorphic cameras and post-S4 HD might change that. I'm interested to see what Davies' Who looks like now the series has shifted to a more conventionally cinematic use of cameras, lighting, etc.
Quote from: Replies From View on January 23, 2022, 07:15:21 PMWhat do people have in their minds for a hypothetical "fresh-start" 60th anniversary story? I'm finding it hard to think outside the paradigm of existing RTD and Moffat stories, where 'Rose' and 'The Eleventh Hour' are about the closest anyone has got to creating 'hop-on' episodes with absolutely no baggage whatsoever.
Me too. I'm also torn because on the one hand, RTD is going to want to return nu-Who to its peak, and that was (in the UK at least) S3-4, so I could see him revisiting that tone... on the other hand, he's a smart guy who was already worried about being old hat when he was tapping out The Writer's Tale, and he's had over a decade to grow further. So even going by what came before, I'm unsure.
Personally, I'd like a fresh start, a new introduction - no baggage, no continuity, maybe some subtle echoes of the past or an acknowledgement of what came before, but no Tennant or Smith turning up... multi-Doctor stories are fine when they're all on an even footing, but you can't do that when the new person is just stepping up. And you don't want to sideline them because it might make their fans feel alienated.
Ah, I'm sure it'll be fine whatever happens. He's a clever bloke.
Quote from: Mister Six on January 23, 2022, 07:49:25 PMNo restrictions? It'd still have to be screenable on BBC TV, and conform to whatever the new budgets are.
EDIT: I've just remembered that he mentions disliking seeing one of the specials, maybe Voyage of the Damned, on a cinema screen at a press event because the direction is all wrong for that format. I wonder if the anamorphic cameras and post-S4 HD might change that. I'm interested to see what Davies' Who looks like now the series has shifted to a more conventionally cinematic use of cameras, lighting, etc.
I didn't mean 'no restrictions' exactly. I meant simply in the sense that he could approach it as a standalone movie version of Doctor Who, unburdened by what has come before (apart from the basic unchanging premise, obviously), in exactly the same way that the TV Movie didn't. If that's what he chooses to do.
I suspect the cinema screenings of 'Day of the Doctor' - and the sheer phenomenon that those were - would have changed his view on the cinematic potential of Doctor Who.
Ah, I see what you mean. Yeah, that would be neat. If that were to happen, I'd he would get Rachel Talalay back on board. She's the best recurring Who director by a country mile.
Quote from: Replies From View on January 23, 2022, 08:18:38 PMI didn't mean 'no restrictions' exactly. I meant simply in the sense that he could approach it as a standalone movie version of Doctor Who, unburdened by what has come before (apart from the basic unchanging premise, obviously), in exactly the same way that the TV Movie didn't. If that's what he chooses to do.
I suspect the cinema screenings of 'Day of the Doctor' - and the sheer phenomenon that those were - would have changed his view on the cinematic potential of Doctor Who.
This is just me being dense, but what did you mean by "in the same way the TV movie didn't"?
Quote from: mothman on January 23, 2022, 10:49:14 PMThis is just me being dense, but what did you mean by "in the same way the TV movie didn't"?
The TV Movie began with continuity to the McCoy era, which was lovely enough for longstanding fans but useless for introducing the show to an entirely new audience.
RTD's 2005 relaunch learned from this mistake, and threw us into Eccleston without any baggage. RTD knew that he or somebody else would be able to pick up that continuity later down the line, but it would be stupid to begin his tenure with it.
Also, my wording was a Douglas Adams reference, slightly paraphrased because it's been a while.
Ah I see. It's finding the right balance, I guess.
But for my next question, I realised I've lost the plot a bit - are we talking RTD's first episode with the new Doc, or the 60th special? Or are they the same thing?
So, would it be:
1. Chib's last aka BBC100 special - 13 regenerates (but do we see into whom in this scenario?)
2. RTD's first - we don't see the aftermath of 14's "birth" but instead it's some time after when they have settled in, just like we did with 9 in "Rose"
The 60th is the first New New Who, but it's possible it might just be episode 1 of Series 14. Then again, it could be a special with a Christmas episode following a month later and then Series 14 in the new year.
So whatever the plan the 60th isn't alone in the way the TV Movie was.
Quote from: mothman on January 23, 2022, 11:05:32 PMare we talking RTD's first episode with the new Doc, or the 60th special? Or are they the same thing?
These two are the same thing, yes.
November 23rd 2023 will be the 60th anniversary episode, and RTD's first after returning as showrunner with his new Doctor.
Quote from: Alberon on January 23, 2022, 11:13:52 PMThe 60th is the first New New Who, but it's possible it might just be episode 1 of Series 14. Then again, it could be a special with a Christmas episode following a month later and then Series 14 in the new year.
So whatever the plan the 60th isn't alone in the way the TV Movie was.
Of course, but the show is nevertheless on the rocks at the moment, and RTD needs to make the right decisions even though his 60th anniversary story is guaranteed to have some episodes after it.
I mean, I wasn't saying this situation is exactly the same as the TV Movie, with 20th Century Fox, Paul McGann, Eric Roberts and whatever else. I'm drawing a few parallels, that's all.
The previous first episodes after each recent regeneration don't recap the event itself. I don't think there's any need to have a gap and the usual trick of viewing the episode from the POV of the new companion should work as well as it always does.
I agree with that, but I do wonder if RTD will introduce some kind of hook akin to the Time War to introduce some mystery back in, even without such a long gap that benefitted Eccleston's introduction. Probably not though, after we've just had the Timeless Child guff filling in gaps.
Quote from: mothman on January 23, 2022, 11:05:32 PMAh I see. It's finding the right balance, I guess.
But for my next question, I realised I've lost the plot a bit - are we talking RTD's first episode with the new Doc, or the 60th special? Or are they the same thing?
So, would it be:
1. Chib's last aka BBC100 special - 13 regenerates (but do we see into whom in this scenario?)
2. RTD's first - we don't see the aftermath of 14's "birth" but instead it's some time after when they have settled in, just like we did with 9 in "Rose"
Option 2 for me Clive. They're needs to be a divorce from Chinballs toxic vandalism...he's poisoned the brand and the audience needs to know this is a different show...once the new regime is bedded in they could slowly reintroduce elements from the past if they wish...14 might not even be 14...might be a new 1st Dr...leaves RTD free to reinvent what he wants...so revamped Daleks ready to be met for the first time again...Cybermen etc...
This route was considered in 2005 but RTD decided to maintain continuity with the Classic series...who is to say he may feel he has done it already and wants the fresh challenge of a reinvention
There's zero chance that this will be an entirely new continuity, unless it turns out he's seeding a multiverse situation, but that would be more of a tedious cliche than just continuing with the 14th Doctor.
What was nice in Rose was the character of Clive, which hinted at more adventures, lines like "passed down from father to son" implied that he had photos of Pertwee and Baker lying around the place and that, yeah, this really was part of the same story.
5 minutes worth of well-done script there.
Just want to say that I don't give a fuck about any of these anniversaries. I especially don't think RTD's first episode should be hampered by any sense of obligation to convention or fan-service. If he wants to do a multi-doctor episode he could do it on the 62¾th anniversary or something. Make it a mid-season surprise if you want.
Another (recentish) convention I would like to be ignored henceforth is for the Christmas specials to be set at Christmas. Just do it somewhere cold if you really have to.
Quote from: notjosh on January 24, 2022, 09:20:38 AMAnother (recentish) convention I would like to be ignored henceforth is for the Christmas specials to be set at Christmas. Just do it somewhere cold if you really have to.
Or set it on a different planet and have a comment that the date is 25th December. Loads of ways to tie it in without being specifically a Christmas theme.
I guess if we don't see who JW regenerates into, RTD would have the option of not making the next Doctor the 14th, but a future Doctor from one or more regenerations down the line.
I'd quite like that approach. Then the Doctor's history wouldn't have to be all stuff we've seen scraped through with a shit-toothed comb.
But I suppose there would need to be a number given to the incarnation for all the publicising and toys etc
Or he could make the 60th a Curse of Fatal Death type multiple regeneration story.
The next Doctor will be the Fourteenth.
The stories will be simplified.
It will be a soft reboot, but closer to The Eleventh Hour than Rose (i.e. it will look and sound different, while being obviously the same show), and will not need to refer to the Chibnall era except in the broadest of strokes.
RTD will make some ballsy decisions which will not go down well with superfans.
The ratings in the UK will remain steady, but with confident international marketing it will continue to do well.
I am sure of these things.
Quote from: thr0b on January 24, 2022, 11:40:34 AMThe next Doctor will be the Fourteenth.
The stories will be simplified.
It will be a soft reboot, but closer to The Eleventh Hour than Rose, and will not need to refer to the Chibnall era except in the broadest of strokes.
RTD will make some ballsy decisions which will not go down well with superfans.
The ratings in the UK will remain steady, but with confident international marketing it will continue to do well.
I am sure of these things.
show cock
https://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/doctor-whos-jodie-whittaker-snubbed-26028127.amp
Quote from: Blofelds Cat on January 24, 2022, 12:20:37 PMhttps://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/doctor-whos-jodie-whittaker-snubbed-26028127.amp
(https://i2-prod.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article25957823.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/0_0E7B1192000003E8.jpg)
Only the best quality jpegs over at the Mirror.
QuoteHowever, the possible reboot could mean Jodie will not get the chance to participate in the usual regeneration scene - much like when Sylvester McCoy missed out when the show's original run came to an end before the latest run of series began in 2005.
TV Movie deniers
Quote from: Blofelds Cat on January 24, 2022, 12:20:37 PMhttps://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/doctor-whos-jodie-whittaker-snubbed-26028127.amp
They say it might not happen, then they quote an interview with the actor where she says she's already shot it? Unless the Beeb is planning to can the last two episodes (about as likely as Michael Grade being cast as the next Doctor) then I don't see how these two things are both possible.
Quote from: thr0b on January 24, 2022, 11:40:34 AMRTD will make some ballsy decisions which will not go down well with superfans
Pretty sure he'll make some really big political points. I think we're going to see some quite bitter polemic.
QuoteDoctor Who star Jodie Whittaker has reportedly been "snubbed" of her iconic regeneration scene
"snubbed
of"?
Not sure that sounds grammatically correct,
The Mirror. One might be "
robbed of" something, or "snubbed
by" a person/ people or their actions. Never seen or heard "snubbed
of" before, but I'm happy to be corrected.
Quote from: Mr Trumpet on January 24, 2022, 01:00:01 PMThey say it might not happen, then they quote an interview with the actor where she says she's already shot it? Unless the Beeb is planning to can the last two episodes (about as likely as Michael Grade being cast as the next Doctor) then I don't see how these two things are both possible.
Her filmed regeneration could lead to a cliffhanger (as per the headless Troughton swirling into nothing), with no connection between Chibnall and RTD2 confirmed.
A good way to set eras apart within a short time frame, in my view.
So no little cameo by the next actor at the end of the episode? If she says it's already been filmed then it hardly seems to be contingent on the latest ratings anyway.
Quote from: Mr Trumpet on January 24, 2022, 01:00:01 PMThey say it might not happen, then they quote an interview with the actor where she says she's already shot it? Unless the Beeb is planning to can the last two episodes (about as likely as Michael Grade being cast as the next Doctor) then I don't see how these two things are both possible.
I suppose if they planned ahead with Chibnall's team or if circumstances were improbably fortuitous they could cut it before the moment of regeneration then pick up with the new Doc after a gap - but they'd need there to be some decent footage to make the ending work.
Or they could just ask Chibnall to cut to credits at the moment of her regeneration, with all the energy swirling around, and then open the 60th some time later, although it might look a bit odd, like they're trying to his the new Doc's identity when it will surely have been announced by that point.
IIRC, in The Writer's Tale (sorry to keep bringing it up, but I've just finished the extended edition, and since it was written during the RTD/Moffat handover it's applicable to a lot of what's happening now) RTD left it up to Moffat to decide whether there would be an RTD/Moffat regeneration scene.
Quote from: notjosh on January 24, 2022, 09:20:38 AMAnother (recentish) convention I would like to be ignored henceforth is for the Christmas specials to be set at Christmas. Just do it somewhere cold if you really have to.
Moffat's already established that as a possibility. A Christmas Carol, The Husbands of River Song and much of Twice Upon a Time weren't set during Christmas. Hopefully there will
be Christmas specials after Chibnall, of course! But I assume the Beeb will be happy to have RTD back and will make the effort.
God, that Mirror article is atrocious. Given that we've seen McCoy regenerate into McGann, McGann regenerate into Hurt and Hurt regenerate into Eccleston, it's a bit much to say McCoy was denied the opportunity to regenerate into Eccleston. And saying she won't get a regeneration scene in an article that quotes her talking about her regeneration scene is equally bonkers.
Given that it's not long since RTD said they'd only just started auditioning for the role, and the fact that Jodie's already done her regeneration scene, I wouldn't be surprised if her final episode ends like The Stolen Earth.
Quote from: Mr Trumpet on January 24, 2022, 01:33:50 PMSo no little cameo by the next actor at the end of the episode? If she says it's already been filmed then it hardly seems to be contingent on the latest ratings anyway.
The regeneration has been shot in two parts before. When Eccleston left and Tennant joined the two halves of the regeneration scene were filmed some time apart. As long as they can recreate the part of the set Whittaker shot her half on they could shoot the second bit over a year later (and probably will).
Quote from: purlieu on January 24, 2022, 05:11:39 PMGod, that Mirror article is atrocious. Given that we've seen McCoy regenerate into McGann, McGann regenerate into Hurt and Hurt regenerate into Eccleston, it's a bit much to say McCoy was denied the opportunity to regenerate into Eccleston. And saying she won't get a regeneration scene in an article that quotes her talking about her regeneration scene is equally bonkers.
It's terrible, though it is pleasingly reminiscent of the early days of my who fandom, when tabloid newspapers habitually GOT WHO WRONG (spelling Tardis in lower case, calling the show "Dr Who", making up Who movies that would star Donald Sutherland as a gun-toting Doctor and so on). Most entertainment journos are pretty genned up on geek stuff these days, so this awful article takes me back a bit.
Quote from: McDead on January 25, 2022, 12:42:48 AMIt's terrible, though it is pleasingly reminiscent of the early days of my who fandom, when tabloid newspapers habitually GOT WHO WRONG (spelling Tardis in lower case, calling the show "Dr Who", making up Who movies that would star Donald Sutherland as a gun-toting Doctor and so on). Most entertainment journos are pretty genned up on geek stuff these days, so this awful article takes me back a bit.
*TARDIS
David Whitaker preferred Tardis.
Quote from: thr0b on January 24, 2022, 11:40:34 AMRTD will make some ballsy decisions which will not go down well with superfans.
Such as making the 14th David Tennant for a few specials before moving on to the 15th?
Really not sure how I feel about that idea (bringing back RTD is one thing but we don't have to go completely backwards) but given what the Curator said it seems plausible. I couldn't see him coming back for a full series as the reason he even left was he knew he shouldn't stay on forever.
RTD isn't going to bring back Tennant. This entire notion is based on a bullshit tabloid article that contradicts itself without a care in the world.
Ballsy decisions, you say? How about Tennant returning as the Master?
Bringing back David Tennant or any other former Doctor to headline the franchise again would be an utterly regressive and creatively bankrupt decision, pretty much the worst move you could make with a show like this which has achieved longevity by being able to keep looking forward and reinventing itself on a regular basis. Resetting the clock to the mid-2000s to pander to millenial fans who have nostalgia for that era of the show would be a fatal reversal of that philosophy and a terrible precedent to set. I would expect and hope that Russell T Davies is savvy enough to understand this.
With all the money involved I doubt it's solely RTD's decision to make
Imagining some suited American head honcho from Sony at the first creative planning meeting going "Sorry, we want the Cockney guy"
Quote from: pigamus on January 25, 2022, 11:36:54 AMWith all the money involved I doubt it's solely RTD's decision to make
If his view was irrelevant then why would they have him back, heading it with his own production company.
He'll probably make a few stupid decisions yet, but Tennant will not be returning for more then a 60th anniversary story, if that.
I never said his view was irrelevant, I said there's big money involved, which I'm sure there is
Quote from: pigamus on January 25, 2022, 12:26:40 PMI never said his view was irrelevant, I said there's big money involved, which I'm sure there is
Even less likely then that they'll make a stupid decision that will kill the show.
Yeah, RTD and David Tennant, nobody's gonna tune in for that
I've said before, the next permanent Doctor won't be both white and male. Having a guest Doctor for the 60th only really works if they can land a really big name to play it.
As to being a multi-Doctor story, I'm not sure if RTD would want to start a new run with one. It's absolutely not how he played the show's return in 2005 and I think everyone accepts this needs to be a fresh start after the stink of the last few years.
Quote from: Alberon on January 25, 2022, 12:53:20 PMHaving a guest Doctor for the 60th only really works if they can land a really big name to play it.
The suggestion is Tennant for just the three specials.
I dunno, it sounds like the type of thing a panicking BBC would tell RTD he must do. He can cast whoever he likes for the series, but the three specials must be Tennant because he is the popular one.
How about David Tennant and Jo Martin
How about Rontos and Hans?
Bring back Graeme Harper as The Doctor, I say.
Quote from: JamesTC on January 25, 2022, 12:56:50 PMThe suggestion is Tennant for just the three specials.
I dunno, it sounds like the type of thing a panicking BBC would tell RTD he must do. He can cast whoever he likes for the series, but the three specials must be Tennant because he is the popular one
It might just work with Tennant if he gets cameo scenes in flashback (or flashforward, eh!). Or just a single, Time-Crash type scene. Basically, kept away from the main plot while the new Doctor does most of the heavy lifting.
(I say
might just... I mean
won't)
Reminder that Tennant being involved in any way is based on a tabloid article that repeatedly contradicts itself, citing as a source a facebook comment, which cited "someone in the know".
IT IS BULLSHIT
I'll be bowled over if the next Doctor is white and/or male. In fact, I suspect RTD might quite like to write a female Doctor now the door's been opened. I like to imagine he was sat at home thrilled by the introduction of Missy.
Having just watched The Third Day, my wildcard big-name Doctor would be Jude Law. Huge name, trudging middle-agedly out of the ranks of the sex symbol, doing interesting telly. Doesn't seem to mind leaping around, screwing up his face, and making an eccentric fool of himself. I'd give it a few more incarnations before having another white male Doc, but pop Jude Law's number in the book.
It'll probably be someone he's worked with before as well, same as with Eccleston and Tennant. Maybe T'Nia Miller from Years and Years? She already played a different Time Lord in the Moffat era but we know that sort of thing is no impediment.
Omari Douglas from It's A Sin was being touted a couple of weeks ago. I'd be happy with that.
If it was only the bawdy American John Barrowman getting his willy out, is the mild-mannered Scottish one allowed to return?
Get your loom out Barrowman!
Quote from: McDead on January 25, 2022, 12:42:48 AMIt's terrible, though it is pleasingly reminiscent of the early days of my who fandom, when tabloid newspapers habitually GOT WHO WRONG (spelling Tardis in lower case, calling the show "Dr Who", making up Who movies that would star Donald Sutherland as a gun-toting Doctor and so on).
Most publications deliberately spell it Tardis because it's pronounced as a word rather than its constituent letters - "tar-diss" rather than "tee-ay-ar-dee-eye-ess". For the same reason they'll write "Aids" but "HIV".
Quote from: pigamus on January 25, 2022, 11:36:54 AMWith all the money involved I doubt it's solely RTD's decision to make
Yeah, and the money is Bad Wolf's. And who runs Bad Wolf? Jane Tranter and Julie Gardner, aka the people who produced RTD's Doctor Who. And they've just brought back Phil Collinson to produce, too.
Sure, Sony bought up Bad Wolf after the Who deal was signed and announced, but there's no reason whatsoever to assume that it's going to try to exert creative control over BW's output, especially this early on. And if some exec were demanding they try to get Tennant, it'd be easy enough for RTD to give him a call and say, "David, we're going to make you an offer that would be the death of Doctor Who, can you turn it down?"
I can't imagine Tennant would be eager to return to Who full time anyway. It'd look terrible on his resume.
Quote from: JamesTC on January 25, 2022, 12:56:50 PMThe suggestion is Tennant for just the three specials.
Which three specials? AFAIK, the only RTD thing that's been confirmed is the 60th, and the assumption is that it'll be followed at most by a Christmas special then a full series. Have I missed something?!
Quote from: Thomas on January 25, 2022, 01:49:58 PMIf it was only the bawdy American John Barrowman getting his willy out, is the mild-mannered Scottish one allowed to return?
I was thinking last night how bloody lucky Davies is that the Noel Clarke/John Barrowman business kicked off before the Bad Wolf deal was announced. RTD's statement that he hadn't
seen anything dodgy happen was either bollocks or carefully worded, because he sure as hell knew - there are jokey references in The Writer's Tale and in the farewell song at the end of season four. And if he was "returning Doctor Who showrunner" when it kicked off, the papers might have been more inclined to poke about and test that claim, rather than slap the statement in the story and click "Update".
Quote from: Thomas on January 25, 2022, 01:35:45 PMI'll be bowled over if the next Doctor is white and/or male. In fact, I suspect RTD might quite like to write a female Doctor now the door's been opened. I like to imagine he was sat at home thrilled by the introduction of Missy.
Having just watched The Third Day, my wildcard big-name Doctor would be Jude Law. Huge name, trudging middle-agedly out of the ranks of the sex symbol, doing interesting telly. Doesn't seem to mind leaping around, screwing up his face, and making an eccentric fool of himself. I'd give it a few more incarnations before having another white male Doc, but pop Jude Law's number in the book.
Jude Law's a great one. He's been doing telly for a while, but I think the perception is still that he's a Big Name, unlike Hugh Grant, who long ago transitioned to ensemble films and headlining telly.
Someone who's still mostly headlining films, as Grant was in 2005, would be best, but Law is a good shout.
Quote from: Mister Six on January 25, 2022, 02:09:10 PMWhich three specials? AFAIK, the only RTD thing that's been confirmed is the 60th, and the assumption is that it'll be followed at most by a Christmas special then a full series. Have I missed something?!
Oh, I think I just assumed there had been some announcement. I'm not following any news closely outside of what is posted on here, so I don't know what is confirmed and what is something likely made up by fans in a Facebook group.
Aw, for a second there I thought we'd be getting even more Who.
There's one more special from Chibnall before RTD's 60th, so I guess those two plus a hypothetical Christmas 2023 special might me what you're thinking of?
Quote from: Mister Six on January 25, 2022, 02:49:17 PMAw, for a second there I thought we'd be getting even more Who.
There's one more special from Chibnall before RTD's 60th, so I guess those two plus a hypothetical Christmas 2023 special might me what you're thinking of?
Probably getting the three Chibnall "specials" mixed up with the 1 or 2 RTD specials.
Quote from: pigamus on January 25, 2022, 12:41:11 PMYeah, RTD and David Tennant, nobody's gonna tune in for that
It's the long term of the show we're talking about, not the next two years. Bringing back Tennant because some people fancy him isn't the kind of approach that the show needs right now. Maybe 20 years from now, Tennant could return as a much older version and it would be interesting, like Tom Baker's curator. But right now it's the stupidest idea. RTD would be quicker to cast an American actor than Tennant - that's how out of touch the idea is.
There are a billion other white men who could tick the 2005-2010 dashing David Tennant box if that's the exact vibe that RTD wants - the idea of bringing back Tennant himself is just wishful thinking from those who can't entertain Doctor Who ever working without him.
And that's the point, isn't it. RTD knows that he needs to refresh the show and push it forwards, to break the idea that only one model of Doctor Who can be popular. Bringing back Tennant would represent agreeing with those who can't see out of the box.
If they're planning some sort of Extended Universe type shenanigans then it might make sense to bring Tennant back and then stick him in one of those
If it's effectively his own show he might be tempted
Why don't you just marry David Tennant if you love him so much?
But yeah, maybe some extended Whoniverse miniseries about the Metacrisis Doctor, or whatever. I think RTD knows that the core show needs to appeal to kids, though, and anyone who was 10 when Tennant left the role is now 22, so anything involving him in a bigger role than just an anniversary special will be extended universe only deal.
Even then, though, you risk diluting the main show if you've got multiple series about The Doctor zipping about in a TARDIS. So I imagine most - if not all - spin-offs will focus on totally different conceits, a la Torchwood (team of black ops folks take on aliens) and SJA (kid-friendly action romp in which youngsters and Sarah Jane save the world).
I just hope Who doesn't get bogged down with backdoor pilots.
The best thing RTD could do now is full reboot, harder than last time.
Maybe five minutes of salting the earth first where it's revealed that in the older serieseseses that the TARDIS ran on the ritualised lethal abuse of the vulnerable, and then move onto something without all the guff that's been dredged up since he left.
Ha ha, they're really milking it now
https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/celebs-tv/doctor-who-catherine-tate-return-6547075
QuoteDespite making a handful of cameo appearances in series two and series three, Catherine Tate's Donna was a focal character in series four.
They can't even be fucked to get the true bits right.
QuoteThe Tenth Doctor somehow managed to regenerate back into himself, the Twelfth Doctor subconsciously regenerated into a person from his past and even the Master chose to regenerate into a younger man.
The Twelfth Doctor became the Thirteenth Doctor, played by somebody who had never been in Doctor Who before, and what's that guff about the Master? What choice is that referring to?
My brain hurts.
I wouldn't have a problem with Tennant playing the 14th Doctor if it's for a short period to get casual eyes back on the show and it's handled with a deftness of touch.
Whether bringing him back is regressive and coasting on past glories entirely depends on how well RTD handles it. It's an idea that's not really been explored before beyond the vagueness of the Curator. I quite like the idea of the Doctor being so strung out and disillusioned that she regenerates into a familiar body because it feels comfortable and safe, yet because it's the Doctor it'll be anything but. A lesson that you can't escape the march of progress by trying to return to a happier, Rose-tinted past, perhaps.
Quote from: Huxleys Babkins on January 25, 2022, 04:36:52 PMWhether bringing him back is regressive and coasting on past glories entirely depends on how well RTD handles it. It's an idea that's not really been explored before beyond the vagueness of the Curator. I quite like the idea of the Doctor being so strung out and disillusioned that she regenerates into a familiar body because it feels comfortable and safe, yet because it's the Doctor it'll be anything but. A lesson that you can't escape the march of progress by trying to return to a happier, Rose-tinted past, perhaps.
Regenerates into Billie Piper!
Quote from: Huxleys Babkinsthat she regenerates into a familiar body because it feels comfortable and safe, yet because it's the Doctor it'll be anything but. A lesson that you can't escape the march of progress by trying to return to a happier, Rose-tinted past, perhaps.
You've almost sold me on this, but it'd be better as a Big Finish alternate universe audio or something. It's too tangled up in continuity and shit that won't mean anything to anyone who wasn't watching the show 12 years ago (which is 100% of the children in attendance) to work as the refresh that the show needs.
The 60th complicates things, but what RTD needs - and I'm certain he knows this - is to just have a bold new start with a brand new Doctor. No continuity, no worries. Same as Rose, basically. Maybe even skipping all the post-regen shite and just having The Doctor turn up, newly regenerated but up and running, in the middle of the new companion's story.
I'm pretty sure that's what the first episode of his series proper will be. The 60th might be a bit more continuity heavy, but nothing more complex than Tennant and Smith turning up as their Doctors. Even then, that might not happen - the joy of a crossover is in seeing the familiar elements clashing with one another. Putting a brand new Doc among the returning elements threatens to drown them.
Surprise five or ten minute special Christmas 2022 covering the regeneration leaving the new Doctor ready for the 60th special.
I can dream, can't I?
Quote from: Zetetic on January 25, 2022, 04:18:59 PMThe best thing RTD could do now is full reboot, harder than last time.
(https://i.imgur.com/tnr2Izw.jpg)
Absolute UNIT.
Quote from: Replies From View on January 25, 2022, 04:35:59 PMThey can't even be fucked to get the true bits right.
The Twelfth Doctor became the Thirteenth Doctor, played by somebody who had never been in Doctor Who before, and what's that guff about the Master? What choice is that referring to?
My brain hurts.
They mean, I guess, Matt Smith regenerates into Capaldi who was in Fires of Pompeii, and the Jacobi Master chooses to regenerate into Simm.
Well it's still bollocks that Donna had cameos in series 2 and 3.
In a way, the full-of-mistakes tabloid rumour mill articles feel like a bit of a throwback to the RTD days and all. I was on IMDb and DigitalSpy for the first four series, and it seemed to be a much more prevalent thing, some fucker who'd never watched the show tossing out an article about how Billie Piper was going to be the first female Doctor.
Quote from: Replies From View on January 25, 2022, 05:28:52 PMWell it's still bollocks that Donna had cameos in series 2 and 3.
Not far off though. She has a cameo in season 2, at the end of Doomsday.
So you just have to stretch to calling The Runaway Bride a cameo appearance (which I don't think is really correct) then you're basically there.
This week I have, far too late, begun working through RTD's other work. I watched Years and Years and A Very British Scandal when they were on, but that's it. I've I've now finished Queer Eye, and am midway through Cucumber/Banana, then moving on to It's A Sin. Might try and watch some of his older soap/high-concept stuff after that.
It's all making me very excited to see what he does with New New Who. It's always clear that he's a man who thinks very very carefully about all aspects of storytelling, and it's going to be so interesting to see how the post-RTD years of Who, especially Chibnall's Who, inform what he does with it. The Rose approach worked so well because it had been off the air for so long that it had absolutely no presence in the minds of newer viewers. I can remember kids my age being absolutely blown away by this 'new' character, gasping at the lines about him possibly being a father, all feeling like his relationship with Rose was groundbreaking, because they'd never seen this alien connect with a human before. I can't see that approach would work in the same way now the new show feels like it's been on forever. But I have faith that RTD will know exactly how to do it.
Quote from: mjwilson on January 25, 2022, 05:42:58 PMNot far off though. She has a cameo in season 2, at the end of Doomsday.
So you just have to stretch to calling The Runaway Bride a cameo appearance (which I don't think is really correct) then you're basically there.
It's also bollocks to call the introduction of an as-yet unknown character a "cameo".
I wouldn't even call Coleman's appearances in the first half of series 7 "cameos". Cameos are for recognised characters who come back.
Quote from: BritishHobo on January 25, 2022, 05:53:19 PMThis week I have, far too late, begun working through RTD's other work. I watched Years and Years and A Very British Scandal when they were on, but that's it. I've I've now finished Queer Eye
RTD considers a re-titling.
Quote from: Replies From View on January 25, 2022, 06:02:53 PMIt's also bollocks to call the introduction of an as-yet unknown character a "cameo".
I wouldn't even call Coleman's appearances in the first half of series 7 "cameos". Cameos are for recognised characters who come back.
I dunno, Tate was already famous when she appeared (although not as Donna obviously), I think that's fair enough.
It says Donna - the character - had cameo appearances when she didn't, because she hadn't been established yet. Why somersault through fire to defend something so shit.
An article that ends like this doesn't need defending:
QuoteIf true, this would be huge for the show and personally I'd be very interested to see how the writers go about re-introducing these actors to the show.
Imagine being paid to write it.
Quote from: Replies From View on January 25, 2022, 06:14:17 PMIt says Donna - the character - had cameo appearances when she didn't, because she hadn't been established yet. Why somersault through fire to defend something so shit.
I just don't think you have to be an existing character to have a cameo. Did Samuel L Jackson not have a cameo in the post-credits of Iron Man? Are all those Stan Lee cameos, where he's playing a new character every time, not cameos?
Quote from: Replies From View on January 25, 2022, 06:14:17 PMAn article that ends like this doesn't need defending:
Well that's certainly true.
Does it count as a cameo when it's just a teaser for the next episode?
Quote from: Replies From View on January 25, 2022, 06:14:17 PMIt says Donna - the character - had cameo appearances when she didn't, because she hadn't been established yet. Why somersault through fire to defend something so shit.
An article that ends like this doesn't need defending:
Imagine being paid to write it.
The Plymouth Herald would never lie to me, do you understand,
never
Quote from: Replies From View on January 25, 2022, 06:02:53 PMCameos are for recognised characters who come back.
Dunno about that. Patrick Moore's appearance in The Eleventh Hour is clearly a cameo.
But yeah, it does seem odd to classify a tease for an upcoming episode as a cameo appearance.
Quote from: mjwilson on January 25, 2022, 06:23:07 PMI just don't think you have to be an existing character to have a cameo. Did Samuel L Jackson not have a cameo in the post-credits of Iron Man? Are all those Stan Lee cameos, where he's playing a new character every time, not cameos?
I don't know about Marvel stuff, so can't comment on Iron Man. If Samuel L. Jackson was appearing as himself - an established actor being
himself rather than an as-yet unknown character - then I'd agree it was a cameo. But that's not the case with Donna Noble.
I've seen Stan Lee's cameos in the Spider-Man films and the focus is on Stan Lee playing a cameo, not the cameo appearance of one of his characters. Donna Noble does not have a cameo at any point in series 2 or 3.
If her role in
The End of Time had been shorter, only a very brief appearance, then I'd argue
that would have counted as a Donna Noble cameo, because she was already established and making a reappearance. But her part was too extended for that.
Quote from: Mister Six on January 25, 2022, 06:38:15 PMDunno about that. Patrick Moore's appearance in The Eleventh Hour is clearly a cameo.
He's being an established figure -
himself. Like the Stan Lee cameos mentioned above, we know who the fuck it is. It's not Patrick Moore's fictional character who's having a cameo appearance, it's famous space-peeper Patrick Moore himself.
If the article had said Catherine Tate herself had had a cameo appearance at the end of series 2 I'd be disagreeing with it less. But it's saying
Donna did.
It's a very bad article, and you are all very bad people for playing devil's advocate on this.
maybe whittaker will regenerate back into tennant for some reason, and in the special he'll have to regenerate back through the incarnations (matt smith > jon culshaw > jodie whittaker) in order "to fix time" because "this is impossible" so that jodie can regenerate properly at the end.
Quote from: Replies From View on January 25, 2022, 06:14:17 PMAn article that ends like this doesn't need defending:
Imagine being paid to write it.
It is remarkable that local papers now employ people who have literally no knowledge of journalistic style writing their articles. I noticed something very similar in the Tennant is returning article, a couple of sentences near the end that seemed to opt for 'casual reply on a friend's Facebook comment' as a tone.
Valeyard lined for appearance in the 60th, apparently.
Edit: Nah, never mind.
I was wondering the other day, what in the Doctor's history (that he/she remembers) could be used to discount the TCBX (I'm getting tired of having to type out "Timeless Child bollocks" all the time)?
The immutable facts that could be used for the character to say, "Hang on, all this can't be right, because I remember <x>." Bit more than just "Why was RuthDoc's TARDIS a police box?"
And I reckon it has to be the Doctor's time stream in "The Name of the Doctor." Just the known Docs in there. Unless they're meant to face us believe that not only did the Division remove their memories, but sequestered the relevant portions of the time stream (whatever that actually is).
And also the bit where Clara tells First which TARDIS to take.
Of course putting all this onscreen might require Jenna Coleman back. It's a hell of a price to pay, but still preferable to putting up with the TCBX.
Nah, the best way to deal with it is just to ignore it and never talk about it ever again.
Second best way is to handwave it with some dialogue.
Billie Piper would make an amazing Doctor Who now. Can't imagine she'd be arsed with it but I honestly think she'd be perfect.
If you widen it to companion actors who could have ever been a good Doctor Who, who do you come up with? Both the Romanas I suppose but that's cheating really. Karen Gillan and Pearl Mackie, but not just yet. Can't think of more.
William Russell might have made a good fist of it
Frazer Hines and Ian Marter
Is Bernard Cribbins just too cuddly? Has he ever played a role that required a bit of steel or swagger? I could see him dressed as a flick-knife- wielding teddy boy but I don't know if he could have pulled it off
Wendy Padbury
I mean let's not forget Tennant IS an actor, he could act differently, he even said he wished he'd kept the Scottish accent. I'm kinda onboard with him coming back.
I mean even if we exclude actors who are no longer alive, and focus on only the living ones, we still have many many people to pick from who aren't David Tennant.
I know it's hard to imagine.
Louise Jameson
jon culshaw doing an impression of david tennant
Quote from: Replies From View on January 25, 2022, 11:04:17 PMI mean even if we exclude actors who are no longer alive, and focus on only the living ones, we still have many many people to pick from who aren't David Tennant.
I know it's hard to imagine.
I know but this could be a cool analysis as the Doctor as a 'self', it could be used to highlight the difference between incarnations, I think it would work for just three specials. I mean McGann is the obvious choice if anyone was to come back but this could really work if done right.
Quote from: canted_angle_again on January 25, 2022, 11:31:13 PMI know but this could be a cool analysis as the Doctor as a 'self', it could be used to highlight the difference between incarnations, I think it would work for just three specials. I mean McGann is the obvious choice if anyone was to come back but this could really work if done right.
Fine, but not before the relaunched version of the show has had time to bed in and stabilise. Haven't you noticed that Chibnall has completely fucked the desire for anyone to see lingering introspection within Doctor Who for at least a decade?
That's why I said it could be interesting 20 years from now for Tennant to return to the role, with enough time and distance to make it poignant.
Anyway we know it's bollocks. It might be cool if everyone got addicted to yo-yos for an entire series and the male companion was forced to wear special clamp-on buttocks on his chest that gripped too tightly and made him bleed.
Quote from: Replies From View on January 25, 2022, 11:57:00 PMIt might be cool if everyone got addicted to yo-yos for an entire series and the male companion was forced to wear special clamp-on buttocks on his chest that gripped too tightly and made him bleed.
"might"???
https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/celebs-tv/doctor-who-matthew-waterhouse-shock-return-1744644
Quote from: pigamus on January 26, 2022, 12:15:09 AMhttps://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/celebs-tv/doctor-who-matthew-waterhouse-shock-return-1744644
Now that is a shock. Didn't know RTD was such a fan but there you go.
This thread has had more replies per day than an ep has generated recently. RTD knows what he's doing. He'll refresh but stay true to the show. I have absolute faith in the man. He better do a 2nd Writers Tale though. I'd look forward to that more than the main show.
remember, he's going to be copying spider-men and all that. a series with the 10th and 11th doctors travelling together, that's what the man said.
maybe the new doctor will seem to be a fresh-faced unknown, but just as they're about to be given "what for", they'll abruptly reveal themselves to have been david tennant the whole time, and there'll be a petition started for the academy award
Quote from: Malcy on January 26, 2022, 12:23:41 AMHe better do a 2nd Writers Tale though. I'd look forward to that more than the main show.
I'm sure Benjamin Cook is hassling him on the daily, but I can't imagine him doing that without it being heavily redacted or written with bitten tongue. He did The Writer's Tale thinking he was done with Who forever, and even then he only obliquely referred to trouble with Torchwood. Doing another book, knowing that he's going to be around for at least a couple of years - and maybe more, if (as I suspect) he's going to move into a sort-of Kevin Feige role, overseeing Who and its spin-offs while others do most of the showrunning on them - I think he'd be reticent to really open up.
As much as I'd love to hear him rant at length about how shit Chibnall is. Which he won't, of course, also because they're mates.
Quote from: canted_angle_again on January 25, 2022, 10:47:37 PMI mean let's not forget Tennant IS an actor, he could act differently, he even said he wished he'd kept the Scottish accent. I'm kinda onboard with him coming back.
That'll make no one happy. The Doc 10 fans will miss their Cockney charmer and everyone else will wonder why they didn't just cast someone else.
Quote from: Mister Six on January 26, 2022, 01:08:58 AMAs much as I'd love to hear him rant at length about how shit Chibnall is. Which he won't, of course, also because they're mates.
Exactly. We'd all love to read an honest account of what went down, but RTD is too much of a gent to give us that. Which is entirely fair enough.
I'm happy sticking with this straightforward narrative: Chibnall is shit, he almost sank one of the BBC's most popular shows, so RTD (possibly by request, possibly of his own volition) swooped in to rescue it.
Anyone want to take my fiver on it being Ewan McGregor (doing an English accent, obvs)?
Quote from: Rev+ on January 26, 2022, 01:49:44 AMAnyone want to take my fiver on it being Ewan McGregor (doing an English accent, obvs)?
Nah, he'll be locked into the Obi Wan series for a few years. Hard to imagine it won't do well based on recognition alone.
Quote from: canted_angle_again on January 25, 2022, 11:31:13 PMI know but this could be a cool analysis as the Doctor as a 'self'
Number 1 on the list of things Doctor Who does not need to be at the minute.
Stop talking about this absolute fucking balderdash.
Cheers.
We could argue about the definition of "cameo" again.
Word up.
New Doc can feature a bright red codpiece as part of his costume. With a question mark on.
Quote from: mothman on January 26, 2022, 05:49:55 PMNew Doc can feature a bright red codpiece as part of his costume. With a question mark on.
And in multi-Doctor stories when everyone's parading their sonic screwdrivers around there could be a really brilliant scene with the codpiece subtly evoking the length of that Doctor's cock.
A sonic codpiece? Replies, I like the way your mind works!
According to the fan page on Facebook the source of the Tennant story is Reddit's TomeDeaf95 who has been quite reliable with leaks, and the FB page then linked to this Twitter thread https://twitter.com/lukeflux1/status/1486264616724402184?s=21
I still won't believe it when I see it.
I've been sort of toying with the idea of going off social media (including CaB) when the new Doctor announcement is imminent to see if I can make it to the regeneration in November without knowing. I wonder if it's possible? I don't think anyone at my work is into it, but they might mention it if it's a big enough name. I'd also have to close my eyes whenever I walk past the magazines at the off-licence.
No chance. Not physically possible. Don't give yourself the pain of trying.
Have to agree. And even if you told everyone you knew that you were trying to avoid the info, there'd be that one cunt who'd go for it...
And the one thing you watch/listen to thinking they can't possibly mention Doctor Who on that, they absolutely will, God will order them to in order to spite you.
Sorry, already stopped reading CaB, so no idea what you lot are talking about now.
David Tennant is coming back and he's going to be
Spoiler alert
nude
So does this mean Biggy is going to return? I miss that churlish perpetually angry monkey.
https://twitter.com/LukeFlux1/status/1486308427362181125
QuoteJust to correct, thanks to @Doinkadect
for pointing it out, TomeDeaf has made it clear that David is playing 10, not 14. So when he says incumbent Doctor, he means as 10
10 isn't the incumbent Doctor, though. After 13, 14 will be the incumbent. If Tennant is appearing as 10, that would mean either a multi-Doctor story in which 14 is the incumbent, or a story from the Doctor's past when 10 was the incumbent. (Or possibly a metacrisis Doctor story, if the metacrisis Doctor also counts as 10.) Either way, it doesn't mean JW regenerating into Tennant. 13 cannot regenerate into 10.
Quote from: canted_angle_again on January 26, 2022, 11:29:58 PMSo does this mean Biggy is going to return? I miss that churlish perpetually angry monkey.
Not unless he's willing to pay up on that £500 bet he made with someone here that Brexit would never happen "because THEY would stop it".
Now I'm just remembering that Sun snippet from a few days ago, posted in the Tories thread - THEY ARE GOING ON ABOUT CAKE TO STOP ARE BREXITS - and feeling glad that we're no longer getting any Murdoch representation here.
Quote from: canted_angle_again on January 26, 2022, 11:29:58 PMSo does this mean Biggy is going to return? I miss that churlish perpetually angry monkey.
Christ, I hope not. My enjoyment of CaB - especially the Who threads - has increased dramatically since he left.
Yeah, plenty of other right-wingers pretending to be left-wingers available here, just go look in the Labour thread. ;-)
Rumour mill churning about Tate, too.
Theory: For some reason the Doctor has found she's "actually on her final life" (again, somehow, despite all the Timeless Child guff) and is agonising over a way she's thought up (such as sacrificing herself permanently, because why not if she's dying anyway) to bring Donna's memory back because this was that really sad event that [some of the fans] have never really let go of etc and so she has unfinished business. And manages to muster up the ability to regenerate once more as Tennant because the ability to choose his face 'sank in' when he used his hand or whatever that time. Basically like a tortured soul kind of story. And he does that, and "dies" 3 episodes later and comes back as Lydia West or whoever.
I'll also call it now that Fourteen has a Scottish accent because "I guess recent memories got jumbled up" etc. And probably a beard to add to the Not The Same As Ten vibes.
It's almost certainly just going to be S4 Ten/Donna in the 60th, isn't it? With some handwavey line about the time differential making them seem older (that'll be fun dialogue to give Catherine Tate). Probably in talks with Smith and Coleman too, I shouldn't wonder.
RTD knows it'd be shit to undo Donna's ending, and unlike Moffat he can leave well enough alone. And, again, starting off a much-needed new era with 10-year-old continuity wank is an awful idea when you're trying to entrance a new audience of kids.
Quote from: Cloud on January 27, 2022, 09:42:48 PMI'll also call it now that Fourteen has a Scottish accent because "I guess recent memories got jumbled up" etc. And probably a beard to add to the Not The Same As Ten vibes.
I've just come up with the concept of Tennant looking a decade older than he did in 2013. If he does then they will owe me money because I said it first.
What if he has ginger hair? He could just keep it from the Good Omens shoot. #thatsasdaprice.
All the pieces are falling into place.
The series really needs new ideas, rather than just treading over old ground, so with that in mind I reiterate: Tennant as the Master, and add: Tate as the Rani. (Or vice versa. Mix it up a bit.)
Save Tennant for a multi-Doctor story - he's practically the only one RTD can count on to turn up!
To really mix things up a bit maybe we could have Tate as Rassilon and Tennant as Davros
Quote from: Replies From View on January 28, 2022, 11:59:38 AMTo really mix things up a bit maybe we could have Tate as Rassilon and Tennant as Davros
But who would Norman Lovett play then?
Rose.
Mo Molam as the Moment, and Bo Bolam as the Face of Boe
Is this Tennant/Tate thing appearing credible then? I suppose I could understand it for the 60th, with the next series then being more of a fresh start.
I'm midway through It's A Sin and I would be quite happy with Lydia West as 14. Given that RTD had worked with Eccleston and Tennant as leads in shows not long before casting them, it definitely seems a good bet.
Quote from: daf on January 28, 2022, 10:08:10 AMSave Tennant for a multi-Doctor story - he's practically the only one RTD can count on to turn up!
Smith said as soon as he left that he'd be up for doing anniversaries, so I reckon he wouldn't take too much persuading if his schedule is free (which, with Game of Thrones, it might not be).
Does anyone know why Capaldi's ruled out any more turns as The Doctor? Being such a fan, you'd think he wouldn't mind the idea of a one-off anniversary special. Was there some friction behind the scenes? I'm sure he was aware of the flaws in his seasons, being that he's a creative sort and a Whovian himself, but I don't know whether it bothered him.
I sort of hate the idea that Capaldi might feel displeased by his time on the show for whatever reason, because he was so good in the role and it was obviously a dream come true for him.
Yeah, same here. I really hope it's just that he enjoyed it so much that he doesn't want to spoil his memories. Or he's keeping his position to allow for better bargaining if approached.
Quote from: Mister Six on January 28, 2022, 02:52:05 PMDoes anyone know why Capaldi's ruled out any more turns as The Doctor? Being such a fan, you'd think he wouldn't mind the idea of a one-off anniversary special.
He was 25 when The Five Doctors came out, so being an actor was probably too busy having sex with ladies to feel the sting of Tom Baker's rejection.
Hasn't he just made a comment of not being a fan of the idea of returning for an anniversary story?
Would you like it if he didn't have his wondrous long hair? Because he's never going to have the opportunity to grow it back unless he's retired from acting and just lets it grow and grow. And the version of the Doctor we all want more of is the series 10 one.
Didn't he simply say the part was too physically demanding and he wouldn't be able to keep doing what the part required? Fairly sure that's all he's ever said on the subject.
Quote from: Peter Capaldi"There are so many Doctors now," explained Capaldi. "I'm quite happy with what I did, you know. I loved my time on Doctor Who, but I think the more of the multi-Doctor stories you have the less effective they are, really."
https://www.thathashtagshow.com/2021/08/03/doctor-who-why-peter-capaldi-doesnt-want-to-return-to-the-show/
Quote from: mjwilson on January 28, 2022, 05:55:45 PMhttps://www.thathashtagshow.com/2021/08/03/doctor-who-why-peter-capaldi-doesnt-want-to-return-to-the-show/
I wonder if he ever felt disappointed that Tom Baker didn't appear in The Five Doctors. As a deep fan he must surely appreciate that even the tokenist of token appearances would mean the world to a lot of people.
But he was prescient in his feeling that by the time of the 60th anniversary people would be multi-Doctored out. It wouldn't be because of Day of the Doctor and Twice Upon A Time, though.
My head-canon is that he just didn't want to risk being asked to do a Chibnall multi-Doctor story, and that he also vetoed any Chibnall-penned episodes during his time as the Doctor.
Fairly sure he's also rejected Big Finish. Maybe he feels his Doctor needs to be written by Moffat.
I understand him rejecting Big Finish, it's probably well out of his image of what Doctor Who is. It had an important place before the show was renewed in 2005, but otherwise it's a very niche fan thing that has no bearing on the TV version.
Fresh(ish) from Plymouth Live (https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/celebs-tv/doctor-who-david-tennant-returning-6594635), which is apparently just a Doctor Who fansite now:
QuoteThe rumour mill of Doctor Who continues, and today is no different as fans continue to speculate over the return of Tenth Doctor David Tennant.
Last month, it was reported that David Tennant would make a sensational return to the BBC sci-fi show as a new incarnation of the Time Lord, making him the first actor to play two Doctors (or more, depending on who you ask).
The original tip off was spotted on social media, in which a user suggested a credible BBC source had leaked the information.
The user claimed this source is the same person who leaked the casting of Sacha Dhawan as the Doctor's nemesis, The Master, in series 12.
And now, a new fan claims the rumours are true after a "very reliable" podcast confirmed the Scottish actor would be returning for a "series of specials" before ending his time on the show with the 60th anniversary.
The "source" also claims that David Tennant will be playing the Fourteenth Doctor with Catherine Tate also returning - but not as Donna Noble.
The idea behind this is to mark a new era of the show by building hype and attracting fans who may have stopped watching the show.
My bold. This would mean more specials between Chibnall's finale and the 60th, which would be a surprise, but would at least make the "Tennant returns" rumours slightly more credible to me. I can't see him coming back to play another Doctor for the 60th, or signing on for a whole season, but I could see him coming back for 3-4 specials as a weird Doc 14 (with echoes of previous Doctors/Who history), then regenerating at the end of the 60th into the new Doc 15. That would (a) avoid the new Doc 15 being overshadowed by the anniversary, (b) give Tennant a bit more to do than flap about for 60 minutes before regenerating, (c) allow for an anniversary-appropriate element of looking back, (d) allow RTD to have his cake and eat it by getting the old audience hooked back in with Tennant while still allowing Doc 15 to start with a clean slate that's friendly to new audiences.
Still sounds horribly convoluted, but having to do a regeneration on the 60th would present all kinds of awkward issues, especially at a time when Who is struggling in the ratings/public awareness.
I'm pretty sure if there were more specials between Chibnall's last turd and the 60th we'd know about them by now.
Still very dubious at this rumour.
The more I hear about it, the more likely (and sensible) it seems.
I feel like I need a diagram to understand all this.
Surely the rumours about a fresh start, no regeneration, etc, are completely at odds with Tenant and Tate returning. Either RTD wants to dip back into the popular, recentish continuity with a contrived, confusing gimmick, or he thinks the show needs a stripped back reboot.
Still sounds like complete nonsense.
Could it be one of the Sarah Jane Adventures-type "Doctor Who Universe" spinoffs that RTD was touting a while ago?
Quote"There should be a Doctor Who channel now. You look at those Disney announcements, of all those new Star Wars and Marvel shows, you think, we should be sitting here announcing The Nyssa Adventures or The Return of Donna Noble, and you should have the Tenth and Eleventh Doctors together in a 10-part series. Genuinely."
Now that
BBC Three is back on proper telly, I could see a "sideways" series of adventures with Tennant and Tate on there. Either in some non-Dr Who roles, or a
Big Finish-style crack-filling "
Further Adventures" where it all happens between episodes of the original run.*
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
* (or if they've visibly aged too much, it could be an alternative 'Turn Left'-style timeline that split off at some point, and these are the "what-if" non-canon "just-for-fun" bubble-adventures. At the end they can loop back to the point they decide the alternative timeline split off from the original - and just morph back with some fancy face-youthening CGI : bish-bosh - job done!)
Quote from: Alberon on February 05, 2022, 11:40:09 PMI'm pretty sure if there were more specials between Chibnall's last turd and the 60th we'd know about them by now.
Still very dubious at this rumour.
Supposedly there are going to be three specials for the 60th, telling a single serialised story. A "series of specials"
ending with the 60th sounds like it could be a misreading of that.
All that's happening here is:
- fans make wild speculation of GallifreyBase
- local newspaper has an employee with an account, who reports on the speculation
- gullible people go "oh look it's in the paper, it must be legit"
Don't be the gullible people.
Quote from: olliebean on February 06, 2022, 08:48:59 AMSupposedly there are going to be three specials for the 60th, telling a single serialised story.
First I've heard of it.
Quote from: mjwilson on February 06, 2022, 09:05:58 AMAll that's happening here is:
- fans make wild speculation of GallifreyBase
- local newspaper has an employee with an account, who reports on the speculation
- gullible people go "oh look it's in the paper, it must be legit"
Don't be the gullible people.
Indeed. It's like when Miles Jupp's wikipedia entry got nonsense added to it, he appeared on a panel show and was questioned about it, and instead of saying no he played along. So then the panel show became the citation for the nonsense.
Quote from: Replies From View on February 06, 2022, 01:30:29 PMIndeed. It's like when Miles Jupp's wikipedia entry got nonsense added to it, he appeared on a panel show and was questioned about it, and instead of saying no he played along. So then the panel show became the citation for the nonsense.
Ha, when was that?
It's mentioned on his RHLSTP from years ago.
Cheers!
Enjoyed this, from Rusty D's Instagram:
(https://i.ibb.co/rkJfkKH/insta1.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/6PVpyJP/insta12.jpg)
I just like "bewitchingly stylist beret".
The less academic question is why the fuck RTD entrusted Chibnall with Torchwood and helped build his ego to a state where he believed he could showrun Doctor Who.
Quote from: Replies From View on February 09, 2022, 10:28:28 AMI just like "bewitchingly stylist beret".
The less academic question is why the fuck RTD entrusted Chibnall with Torchwood and helped build his ego to a state where he believed he could showrun Doctor Who.
RTD was close to burnout and took on the first person near capable of it?
Quote from: thr0b on February 09, 2022, 12:29:18 PMRTD was close to burnout and took on the first person near capable of it?
It suggests that they were in a desperate situation indeed if they absolutely
had to pick the very shittest writer ever born. It's unfathomable that they could have had no choice considering Doctor Who's popularity at the time.
They must have seen some good in him, this is the perplexing thing. A positive quality that we have never glimpsed in anything he has ever done. And we've seen interviews with him - it's not like he's enthusiastic or enigmatic or inspires confidence on any other level - if anything he has the air of a man endlessly cursing the day he gambled on outdoing Pip and Jane Baker.
Today I am mostly reading The Long Game by Paul Hayes, the inside story on how they brought back Doctor Who - highly recommended, it's very good
Quote from: Replies From View on February 09, 2022, 12:42:42 PMIt suggests that they were in a desperate situation indeed if they absolutely had to pick the very shittest writer ever born. It's unfathomable that they could have had no choice considering Doctor Who's popularity at the time.
They must have seen some good in him, this is the perplexing thing. A positive quality that we have never glimpsed in anything he has ever done. And we've seen interviews with him - it's not like he's enthusiastic or enigmatic or inspires confidence on any other level - if anything he has the air of a man endlessly cursing the day he gambled on outdoing Pip and Jane Baker.
Don't overlook the appeal of the "safe pair of hands". He may not be exciting, imaginative, interesting or appealing, but he understands the brief and brings the work in on time and on budget.
Quote from: thr0b on February 09, 2022, 12:29:18 PMRTD was close to burnout and took on the first person near capable of it?
I think we've said before that Doctor Who is a poisoned chalice. Only really big fans dare take it on and only then because the alternative is it going off air. This is the critical issue Bad Wolf will have to sort out over the next couple of series. You cannot have the series creatively resting on just one person. It is just not viable as it currently is.
Chibnall was clearly being trained up for Doctor Who by being given Torchwood. Its critical failings (commercially it did well) might not be totally on his shoulders, though the mess Doctor Who has been in the last three years suggest it is.
Quote from: McDead on February 09, 2022, 01:48:36 PMDon't overlook the appeal of the "safe pair of hands". He may not be exciting, imaginative, interesting or appealing, but he understands the brief and brings the work in on time and on budget.
This is the key to his career I think. You ask for it next Wednesday, he does it, no bother, no reflection, no angst, nothing. He doesn't excite you but you don't have to worry about him.
Quote from: McDead on February 09, 2022, 01:48:36 PMDon't overlook the appeal of the "safe pair of hands". He may not be exciting, imaginative, interesting or appealing, but he understands the brief and brings the work in on time and on budget.
But what does "safe pair of hands" mean when he's overseen a shift from Moffat's version of the show to one that needs rescuing from certain cancellation by a showrunner who had promised he'd put Doctor Who behind him?
I'm still not really certain what RTD or Moffat actually think about Chibnall's writing. Obviously I think it's shite, but given that they seemed to repeatedly give him high-profile work "because they're mates", it wouldn't surprise me if they've developed a blindspot to some of his flaws. Moffat referred to Chibnall as "master of the longform narrative" in his recent Oxford Union Q&A, which I think may be one of the most ludicrous platitidues I've ever heard.
RTD on Chibnall would be just like VC Mitchell on Jimmy Carr. They're a class.
Quote from: pigamus on February 09, 2022, 01:56:49 PMThis is the key to his career I think. You ask for it next Wednesday, he does it, no bother, no reflection, no angst, nothing. He doesn't excite you but you don't have to worry about him.
It sounds like the BBC drama department maybe doesn't understand that the Venn diagram connecting creative industries and blu tack manufacturing isn't supposed to be just one circle.
It must be amazing to be like that. He's like the scriptwriting version of Chauncy Gardener from Being There. I almost admire him.
Quote from: Midas on February 09, 2022, 02:13:26 PMMoffat referred to Chibnall as "master of the longform narrative" in his recent Oxford Union Q&A, which I think may be one of the most ludicrous platitidues I've ever heard.
I'm guessing that was before he saw Flux.
Quote from: Midas on February 09, 2022, 02:13:26 PMI'm still not really certain what RTD or Moffat actually think about Chibnall's writing. Obviously I think it's shite, but given that they seemed to repeatedly give him high-profile work "because they're mates", it wouldn't surprise me if they've developed a blindspot to some of his flaws. Moffat referred to Chibnall as "master of the longform narrative" in his recent Oxford Union Q&A, which I think may be one of the most ludicrous platitidues I've ever heard.
Given how shite Moffat is at longform narrative himself, he might mean it.
RTD in particular, though, strikes me as someone who is not only a naturally gifted writer with a knack for drama as well as comedy (something Moffat struggles with), but someone who pays a lot of attention to the mechanics of writing (even if he lets himself off applying them from time to time). I find it hard to believe that he's not aware of how fundamentally lacking so much of Chibnall's output, especially on Torchwood and his Who run, has been.
Quote from: olliebean on February 09, 2022, 02:31:35 PMI'm guessing that was before he saw Flux.
He will always big-up Doctor Who, never slag it off, and it was in the lead-up to the "long form" Flux that he made that statement.
Quote from: Mister Six on February 09, 2022, 02:38:56 PMGiven how shite Moffat is at longform narrative himself, he might mean it.
RTD in particular, though, strikes me as someone who is not only a naturally gifted writer with a knack for drama as well as comedy (something Moffat struggles with), but someone who pays a lot of attention to the mechanics of writing (even if he lets himself off applying them from time to time). I find it hard to believe that he's not aware of how fundamentally lacking so much of Chibnall's output, especially on Torchwood and his Who run, has been.
Not having it that Moffat struggles with comedy.
Also it was more within RTD's time than Moffat's time that we tended to get 40 minutes of set up followed by 5 minutes of rushed magic solution.
Quote from: Replies From View on February 09, 2022, 02:09:56 PMBut what does "safe pair of hands" mean when he's overseen a shift from Moffat's version of the show to one that needs rescuing from certain cancellation by a showrunner who had promised he'd put Doctor Who behind him?
The problem is that "a safe pair of hands" is not what Doctor Who needs. The abiding feeling I get from current Who is lassitude, a show devoid of energy, of impetus, of a reason to be. This is what you get with a "safe pair of hands". You get Merlin, or Robin Hood, or fucking Primeval. This is what annoys me more than his spurious tinkering with continuity - the show has become boring and disposable.
Chibnall really does appear to be a man with nothing to say, which is why he badly traced over the Davies and Moffat eras instead.
Can't wait til his reign limps over the finish line and we get Rusty back.
He had a playground argument to win over the Morbius Doctors, and I honestly believe that was his entire impetus. Getting one over on Johnny P from his third year of juniors.
Quote from: Replies From View on February 09, 2022, 02:46:29 PMNot having it that Moffat struggles with comedy.
Also it was more within RTD's time than Moffat's time that we tended to get 40 minutes of set up followed by 5 minutes of rushed magic solution.
Oh, no, I meant Moffat isn't great with comedy-drama, especially in long form. Obviously he's amazing at straight-up comedy. But he seems to struggle to permanently hurt any of his major characters or put his actors out (hence the endless resurrections, and the dithering over Clara leaving), and his attempts in Sherlock, Jekyll and Dracula all fell apart in the end.
Davies's focus is always on the emotional story rather than the mechanical one, and so long as the emotion works he's willing to let the external threat be resolved by a big button or lever. But it's clear in The Writer's Tale that this is a conscious decision rather than something that just happens, and he does fret about the mechanical side of things being too throwaway, but if that stuff gets in the way of the emotional hook, he'll toss it. And while his finales became increasingly overblown and self-referential, he was still willing to kill off or otherwise tragically eject most of his Who companions and half the Torchwood team.
More importantly, Davies has shown time and time again that he can do dramatic miniseries really well.
But with Chibnall there's no emotional content whatsoever, and no clever plotting, and I can't believe that RTD can watch his seasons and not be slack-jawed at how poor they are, especially because (unlike with Torchwood) he doesn't see the sausage being made, just the sad, carbonised little chipolata on the cracked plate in front of him.
I think it's quite sad that we will likely never get RTD and Moffat's true opinions revealed about Chibnall's writing / version of the show.
The only way I can see it happening is if, after RTD has pulled it back from the brink, Chibnall is able to stand up and admit his own shortcomings and it opens the door to everyone feeling they can say "you're right..." and extending their own views to a Chibnall who doesn't feel slighted.
This will never happen while Chibnall's show is "current", if ever.
Even then, I think they would want to temper their comments (if they comment publicly at all) because of the absolute battering he'd get online from his detractors if he did admit fault.
It's a safeguarding issue. Enough people would like to do him harm; bringing it all out into the open might tip them over the edge.
Most creative types are hyper focused on their own work and don't much notice what others are doing.
Quote from: jamiefairlie on February 19, 2022, 11:19:09 PMMost creative types are hyper focused on their own work and don't much notice what others are doing.
RTD and Moffat are obsessed with Doctor Who and will both be hyper focused on it until they die. There's no way they'll have missed Chibnall's efforts.
From RTD's Instagram account.
(https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/doctor-who-russell-t-davies-filming-1646341271.jpg?crop=1.00xw:0.801xh;0,0.199xh&resize=768:*)
I'm really looking forward to some new Doctor Who after several years without any.
Quote from: Alberon on March 03, 2022, 11:16:10 PMFrom RTD's Instagram account.
(https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/doctor-who-russell-t-davies-filming-1646341271.jpg?crop=1.00xw:0.801xh;0,0.199xh&resize=768:*)
"... And this is my assistant Beaker!"
Most of RTD's Instagram selfies are in the Beaker style. It's presumably a tribute to arguably the greatest Muppet.
That's Dr Bunsen Honeydew he's aping. Although he's good too.
This is all very exciting. I've started to dream about Who again for the first time in ages. Last night I dreamt I was brought on to help storyboard the show. I was privy to a top level meeting between RTD and one of the other producers about casting, and the consensus between them was to go weird and eye-catching with it, no safe choices. In the end they chose Rhona Cameron, which makes a sort of sense, but didn't enthuse me much.
Ribena Dorson? Strange name, never heard of her.
Quote from: samadriel on March 04, 2022, 01:31:38 AMThat's Dr Bunsen Honeydew he's aping. Although he's good too.
Oh yeah. Of course. I've made quite the muppet of myself here.
I don't follow RTD on Insta, so the first time I saw this picture - on twitter - it looked like this:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FM762kZXMAICykW?format=jpg&name=small)
And it wasn't until I'd logged on here I realised it was a joke.
Eccleston's latest version:
https://www.doctorwhotv.co.uk/eccleston-calls-multi-doctor-stories-a-cash-in-if-you-want-me-back-get-me-on-my-own-96910.htm
Quote from: Ecclescake"But the creation of the War Doctor introduced a whole new facet to the canon. I know it made some people anxious, the fundamentalists, but, no. I mean the father of us all is William Hartnell, but the greatest Doctor is Jodie Whitaker."
alright
Maybe he said "latest" and they typed it wrong.
Perhaps it's just an actorly way of saying "maybe concentrate on the person doing the job right now".
Guess Eccles has already done a Second Coming
Quote from: GoblinAhFuckScary on March 07, 2022, 08:13:03 PMGuess Eccles
Some episodes credit him as
Guess Who, and others as
The Guess.
Guess Eccles, Test Eccles, Wallet and Watch
Just realised it should be quite feasible to have a version of Guess Who soon enough using all the Doctors.
Brilliant idea of mine that, that I quite suspect is entirely unique and that therefore I am a genius.
I prefer Guess Bluebottle.
When RTD's first new series broadcasts, won't we have a whole new logo etc?
It makes me remember again that the blu ray releases of classic era complete seasons really needed to keep using the established Pertwee/McGann version of the logo.
There's no way they'll still be using the Chibnall logo in 2024 so it was incredibly short sighted of them to adopt it.
Quote from: Replies From View on March 07, 2022, 11:14:15 PMJust realised it should be quite feasible to have a version of Guess Who soon enough using all the Doctors
Factor in Morbius Doctors, Big Finish, Fatal Death etc. and we're well there.
Or just factor in the Timeless Child and include pictures of every human person that ever lived ever
Quote from: Replies From View on March 13, 2022, 03:46:18 PMWhen RTD's first new series broadcasts, won't we have a whole new logo etc?
It makes me remember again that the blu ray releases of classic era complete seasons really needed to keep using the established Pertwee/McGann version of the logo.
There's no way they'll still be using the Chibnall logo in 2024 so it was incredibly short sighted of them to adopt it.
Ah, it's a fine logo, they can just keep using it.
Quote from: mjwilson on March 13, 2022, 03:54:26 PMAh, it's a fine logo, they can just keep using it.
Would they, though? As a matter of principle, of all round refreshing the brand, I don't believe they will keep it.
Quote from: Replies From View on March 13, 2022, 03:55:29 PMWould they, though? As a matter of principle, of all round refreshing the brand, I don't believe they will keep it.
Oh I see what you mean.
Maybe Rusty will save the branding consistency like he saved Big Finish last time.
Quote from: mjwilson on March 13, 2022, 03:59:58 PMOh I see what you mean.
Maybe Rusty will save the branding consistency like he saved Big Finish last time.
The only branding consistency is refreshing the logo etc on a routine basis. The Pertwee/McGann logo was sensibly being used for classic era stuff, and in 2013 it was also used for rereleases of new era series 1-6. It seemed a good future-proofing method when they did it that way. Newest logo for relevant new releases, and Pertwee/McGann logo for everything else. Either that or release every season using its own logo.
It was bonkers for the classic era to adopt Chibnall's logo, as it was obvious the blu ray releases would extend beyond his tenure and now fans are going to complain about logo changes on their classic era box sets.
The Chibnall logo has no connection to the classic era nor the newest RTD era, so I can't see it being retained when everything else has moved on.
Keep it for the blu rays, it looks good.
Yeah the new logo is one of the few Chibnall changes I actually like (anamorphic cameras, new intro graphics and new time vortex being the others).
The Chibnall logo is better than the RTD and Moffat logos, IMO. The Moffat one was blocky as hell and the RTD one was lensflare city.
Target books, DWM, video releases and so on have only ever used the 'current' version of the logo while the show has been on television. After 1989 DWM started using Tom Baker's logo for a bit, then the TV Movie brought the McGann logo permanently to classic era media, even as post-2005 Who arrived.
In 2013, with the 50th anniversary, there seemed to be some attempt to rewrap RTD and Moffat's previous series in McGann logo covers, as if to say that everything apart from the newest series was now just 'classic'... until that point the BBC were still viewing the classic and newer eras of the show as separate entities and it seemed like the 50th anniversary was an opportunity to rejig.
They should have kept the McGann logo for the DVDs / blu rays, or used season-specific logos for each release. Keeping the Chibnall logo when it's no longer relevant would be an unprecedented step - it neither ties Classic Who into its own legacy nor connects it to the present era of the show. It's a complete mess - an absolute failure of forward thinking.
The team behind the Blu-rays have said they will be keeping the logo for the whole range when the question was asked around the time Season 12/19 came out. Plans can change, but I imagine that if the BBC did force them to change it, they'd overlay the logo with an easily removable card with the new logo on it.
The Chibnall era logo on everything thing was an order from on high. I seem to remember it being mentioned that some of the higher ups at BBC Studios just couldn't get their head around anybody in the audience wanting anything with a previous Doctor/era. They had to really convince the higher ups to make the Blu-ray and animation ranges (amongst other things).
I really think the Chibnall era was a big clusterfuck in more ways than just the obvious. In so many areas, the brand has been handed to people who just don't have a single fucking clue about their audience. Even Big Finish has gone to absolute pot in the last few years. The Blu-ray and animation range are the only great things the show has left right now. And the animation range is soon to be dead too.
the mcGabb logo is easily the strongest. they should keep it and give it a rest.
Yeah, I was saying this when they first announced everything would have the Chibnall logo on going forward. Obviously the BluRays are going to keep with it - there reversible sleeves for the early 10s DVD releases just so the spines have the same style BBC logo shows how much they're aware that fans may have a very anal approach to spine consistency - but will everything else change to the new logo, or just go back to the McGann one, or what? Obviously the Targets all used the then-current logo so I suppose everything adopting the new style does have some precedent.
Personally I think everything should just have the logo from that era. It doesn't make sense to me that this incredibly varied show should have one logo for every era. Then you'd see the McCoy logo and immediately know it's all shit and not worth bothering with.
Casting rumour after an actor posted a Snapchat from Bad Wolf studios https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/celebs-tv/doctor-who-rumoured-next-doctor-6880669 (https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/celebs-tv/doctor-who-rumoured-next-doctor-6880669)
Oh, the good old Plymouth Herald. There's one rabid Whovian there. They're still saying there's a series of specials in 2023, but I'd be very surprised if there is more than two.
Did you insinuate Ram from Class was the next Doctor in the TV section of the Plymouth Herald?
The first episode of RTD's Doctor Who will just be that one guy playing The Doctor, and nobody else in it, apparently.
https://twitter.com/Robritchie409/status/1509838735634059264?s=20&t=mM_Ho-mFA85vmNmRvZLLVg
Lovely!
Spoiler alert
Unhand me you metal pricks!
https://twitter.com/CBeebiesHQ/status/1509772814961811459
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FPPKX5oXoAEw8Z5?format=jpg&name=large)
I'd watch that.
Quote from: Bad Ambassador on April 01, 2022, 01:05:33 PMhttps://twitter.com/Robritchie409/status/1509838735634059264?s=20&t=mM_Ho-mFA85vmNmRvZLLVg
Davros will forever now be known as malnourished ballsack. Would genuinely watch a more comedic version of the show with Matt Berry doing his thing.
Quote from: Mister Six on April 01, 2022, 12:50:49 PMThe first episode of RTD's Doctor Who will just be that one guy playing The Doctor, and nobody else in it, apparently.
Nah, Moffat already did that.
Quote from: Deanjam on April 01, 2022, 06:13:15 PMDavros will forever now be known as malnourished ballsack. Would genuinely watch a more comedic version of the show with Matt Berry doing his thing.
Give Big Finish a few months and they'll have an episode out.
Quote from: Bad Ambassador on April 01, 2022, 01:05:33 PMhttps://twitter.com/Robritchie409/status/1509838735634059264?s=20&t=mM_Ho-mFA85vmNmRvZLLVg
Best episode since The Five(ish) Doctors Reboot!
Spoiler alert
Shit's gonna hit the whhhhiiiind!
Quote from: Huxleys Babkins on April 01, 2022, 02:26:45 PMhttps://twitter.com/CBeebiesHQ/status/1509772814961811459
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FPPKX5oXoAEw8Z5?format=jpg&name=large)
I'd watch that.
Not with the Chibnall logo. Time to rid!
I'm fine with keeping the Chibnall logo if the alternative is another lens-flare monstrosity like RTD had the first time round.
They can keep Chibnall's logo, intro and time tunnel effect. All of those were quite good. Fuck off the rest, mind.
Quote from: olliebean on April 01, 2022, 06:39:07 PMNah, Moffat already did that.
Haha, I thought that as I wrote it.
Quote from: olliebean on April 01, 2022, 08:40:39 PMI'm fine with keeping the Chibnall logo if the alternative is another lens-flare monstrosity like RTD had the first time round.
I'm just hoping we get that cracking theme tune that they used in the early trailers. Couldn't give a flying shite what the logo is but as much as I liked the theme tune I still massively preferred the one in the trailers.
The logo, theme tune, time tunnel and TARDIS interior will all be entirely new in 2023. This much is basic.
The Chibnall logo only brings Chibnall's terrible era of Doctor Who to my mind, so I am dead keen for it to fuck off with him.
Quote from: Replies From View on April 01, 2022, 09:53:09 PMThe logo, theme tune, time tunnel and TARDIS interior will all be entirely new in 2023. This much is basic.
Yeah true, would still have been nice though. Was quite an ominous version.
RTD's BF audio is out. Dunno when I'll get round to it. Have just started the Eccleston series.
Quote from: Malcy on April 01, 2022, 09:44:12 PMI'm just hoping we get that cracking theme tune that they used in the early trailers. Couldn't give a flying shite what the logo is but as much as I liked the theme tune I still massively preferred the one in the trailers.
I don't remember it and may have not even heard it. Do you have a link?
If it didn't have that stupid rattling cutlery drawer it's better.
Quote from: Replies From View on April 01, 2022, 09:55:25 PMI don't remember it and may have not even heard it. Do you have a link?
If it didn't have that stupid rattling cutlery drawer it's better.
Possibly this one, but i'm doubting myself. I have the 'clean' version of it i suppose somewhere. I'll need to look it out. Its just a key or so lower and not sire that this is it but apart from anything else. I am absolutely bingeing S1 this weekend.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYIu7Qlqh4M
Oh, sorry - the RTD trailer from 2005. Due to talking about the Chibnall logo I thought you were talking about the Chibnall theme tune as well.
To me, that just sounds like the standard RTD version. But I do recall trailers from that time featuring something more like the original Delia Derbyshire arrangement, without as much (or possibly any) orchestra augmentation.
Quote from: Replies From View on April 01, 2022, 10:15:47 PMOh, sorry - the RTD trailer from 2005. Due to talking about the Chibnall logo I thought you were talking about the Chibnall theme tune as well.
To me, that just sounds like the standard RTD version. But I do recall trailers from that time featuring something more like the original Delia Derbyshire arrangement, without as much (or possibly any) orchestra augmentation.
Ah right sorry. Yeah it was just that little bit lower as was the 'oohweeeohh'. Does that bit have a name like the 'middle 8' does?
Quote from: Malcy on April 01, 2022, 10:19:07 PMAh right sorry. Yeah it was just that little bit lower as was the 'oohweeeohh'. Does that bit have a name like the 'middle 8' does?
Dunno. "The melody", probably.
Quote from: Replies From View on April 01, 2022, 09:53:09 PMThe logo, theme tune, time tunnel and TARDIS interior will all be entirely new in 2023. This much is basic.
Yeah, OK, they can do what they like with the logo and theme tune as long as we get a TARDIS interior that is less shite.
Watchimg videos of the Fisherman's Friends and this comed up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bisv9LLJCtk
Quote from: olliebean on April 01, 2022, 10:50:42 PMYeah, OK, they can do what they like with the logo and theme tune as long as we get a TARDIS interior that is less shite.
Shall we offer some predictions about the new TARDIS interior?
I'm suspecting it'll be more in line with the Capaldi console room than we might assume, just because it got so much right. I'm going to wager a similar use of levels, but less chrome. They've not extensively used wood for a while, so I'll go with that. Different natural wood shades, I reckon. Augmented by flashes of something like ivory.
I reckon they'll build something iconic and aim to keep it for more than one Doctor, as well, to reduce the sense that every aspect of the show is immanently disposable / non-committal.
WHAT DOES EVERYBODY ELSE THINK.
Quote from: Malcy on April 02, 2022, 07:36:17 PMWatchimg videos of the Fisherman's Friends and this comed up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bisv9LLJCtk
Cheers - being discussed in the Chibnall thread (https://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=92856.msg4881142#msg4881142).
Quote from: Mister Six on April 04, 2022, 02:50:29 PMCheers - being discussed in the Chibnall thread (https://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=92856.msg4881142#msg4881142).
Was a lot drunker than I thought earlier than I thought on Saturday! I wonder what other Who episode trailers could be suggested based on music?
This was supposed to start production this month. Has there been any confirmation of that? I've seen that RTD seems to be working on Nollie starting last week.
Quote from: Malcy on April 04, 2022, 02:57:06 PMWas a lot drunker than I thought earlier than I thought on Saturday! I wonder what other Who episode trailers could be suggested based on music?
This was supposed to start production this month. Has there been any confirmation of that? I've seen that RTD seems to be working on Nollie starting last week.
What's Nollie? All Google gives me is skateboarding tricks.
ITV biopic of Noele Gordon about her time in the greatest soap ever, Crossroads.
Ah, "Nolly", apparently. Not sure what RTD will have to do with it now, though. Script was finished at least when Helena Bonham Carter signed on in November last year, and he's not directing it. Maybe he'll sit in on the edit and write some scenes for pickups if needed, but I can't see it taking up too much of his time at this point.
Bloody auto-correct!
He posted something about him in a production meeting or something so i'd assume he would be doing things like that and still be somewhat hands-on and wanting to make sure everything is going ok, but we all know he is a workaholic so he's probably loving it!
DAMMIT, Davies, don't get burned out before you even finish your first season!
I hope he's given up the cigs for good. One of the abiding images I had after reading The Writer's Tale is a chain smoking man pacing around Cardiff Bay at 4am, desperately trying to piece things together.
Interesting schedule clash. Looks a bit like maybe he was due to be involved with Nolly in a bigger way at this stage, but Doctor Who suddenly became the thing he needed to do.
I have no basis for this reading, beyond believing that Chibnall was sacked and RTD had to step in urgently.
Quote from: Replies From View on April 04, 2022, 01:47:05 PMShall we offer some predictions about the new TARDIS interior?
I'm suspecting it'll be more in line with the Capaldi console room than we might assume, just because it got so much right. I'm going to wager a similar use of levels, but less chrome. They've not extensively used wood for a while, so I'll go with that. Different natural wood shades, I reckon. Augmented by flashes of something like ivory.
I reckon they'll build something iconic and aim to keep it for more than one Doctor, as well, to reduce the sense that every aspect of the show is immanently disposable / non-committal.
WHAT DOES EVERYBODY ELSE THINK.
I SAID WHAT DOES EVERYBODY ELSE THINK ANSWER ME
That all sounds plausible. I think you might be right.
LOG FLUME AROUND OUTSIDE OF CONSOLE ROOM
The console will be a tree
RTD will confound expectations and make the TARDIS smaller on the inside.
Quote from: Replies From View on April 05, 2022, 05:07:04 PMI SAID WHAT DOES EVERYBODY ELSE THINK ANSWER ME
I think it will be red
It will be full of water.
It will just be a tiny set darkly lit in the corner of the studio for one episode just like Season 26.
I doubt there'll be a TARDIS. Every other aspect of Doctor Who has changed since it started in 2005, I reckon it's about time they got rid of it and had Doctor Who stay in one place and time. Probably become a policeman for the next few years.
Quote from: mjwilson on April 05, 2022, 06:46:23 PMI think it will be red
Who remembers that bloke who had THE NEW DOCTOR WHO on a car and pretended they had filmed an episode, all evidence of which he was assured had been conveniently wiped forever, and during his interview of shit made-up on the spot he started saying OH YES AND THE TARDIS WAS A RED TELEPHONE BOX TO BREAK WITH TRADITION, AND WE THOUGHT THAT COULD ANNOY A FEW FANS, YEAH
and anyway all photos of it were destroyed as well, so... but it did happen. next question
^ well that was really good when that happened.
Removed by request
Quote from: Rev+ on April 06, 2022, 12:34:46 AMText S***T to 8***8
Yeah, don't be an idiot like me and do this without bothering to Google it first.
Rather than getting some sort of exciting exclusive Doctor Who content (one reason I didn't Google it was to avoid getting spoilered as to what happens), you end up wasting the time of some poor volunteer on a mental health chatline.
Why?
Quote from: Alberon on April 05, 2022, 06:08:05 PMRTD will confound expectations and make the TARDIS smaller on the inside.
That's the gag with Iris Wildthyme - (it's stuck as a red double decker bus).
(https://i.imgur.com/aP6n7pc.jpg)
She also goes round with a talking stuffed panda as a companion - voiced by that bloke who did Kenneth Williams a few years ago.
Quote from: Replies From View on April 05, 2022, 09:29:56 PMWho remembers that bloke who had THE NEW DOCTOR WHO on a car and pretended they had filmed an episode, all evidence of which he was assured had been conveniently wiped forever, and during his interview of shit made-up on the spot he started saying OH YES AND THE TARDIS WAS A RED TELEPHONE BOX TO BREAK WITH TRADITION, AND WE THOUGHT THAT COULD ANNOY A FEW FANS, YEAH
and anyway all photos of it were destroyed as well, so... but it did happen. next question
Adrian Rigelsford?
David Burton - a local paper reporter who blagged a free car from a garage by claiming he was going to be 'The new Doctor Who", and then got caught out when fans started probing his story.
(http://www.endofthelane.co.uk/images/DBurton.jpg)
QuoteIt may well have been that David Burton was simply engaging in a little bit of over-enthusiastic and profile-raising "self-promotion" when he decided to make his claims, possibly in an effort to secure himself the sponsorship deal with Shield. He may never have considered the possibility that Shield would then publicly advertise his claims in such a way or perhaps he was simply thinking that no one would ever really question whether or not he had actually filmed anything. If that was the case, then he chose the wrong programme to home in on. If he had fictitiously claimed that he'd done a test to be the new presenter of a revived but ultimately unmade series of Crackerjack!, then it's doubtful that anyone would have ever batted an eyelid. But Doctor Who was always going to be a different matter and over twenty years later, the subject of Burton's supposed involvement is still being talked about amongst the fans.
http://www.endofthelane.co.uk/burton.html
It's just so weird that years later, for the DVD interview, he doubled down on the lie rather than recognise enough time had passed to come clean.
"You know what - I made a stupid decision in the early 90s to try to blag a free car" would have been an equally interesting story if he'd still relayed all the same details and excuses he perpetuated at the time. Continuing to lie about it just made him seem deluded. Maybe he is.
Anyway.
Quote from: daf on April 06, 2022, 12:29:20 PMDavid Burton - a local paper reporter who blagged a free car from a garage by claiming he was going to be 'The new Doctor Who", and then got caught out when fans started probing his story.
Strange - he doesn't
look like a wrong-un.
(http://www.endofthelane.co.uk/images/Buzzcocks%201.png)
Quote from: daf on April 06, 2022, 12:13:07 PMthat bloke who did Kenneth Williams
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EB6dsJtWwAAfY5_.jpg:large)
Ooh, steady on!
That pic is EXACTLY how Panda sounds - he's a complete scream!
Quote from: gilbertharding on April 06, 2022, 12:54:33 PMStrange - he doesn't look like a wrong-un.
(http://www.endofthelane.co.uk/images/Buzzcocks%201.png)
The speed that image loaded at took me right back to my 56k modem days.
Quote from: olliebean on April 06, 2022, 10:14:25 PMThe speed that image loaded at took me right back to my 56k modem days.
You mean the speed it took you to take the entire image into your brain.
Quote from: Ambient Sheep on April 06, 2022, 01:48:45 AMYeah, don't be an idiot like me and do this without bothering to Google it first.
Rather than getting some sort of exciting exclusive Doctor Who content (one reason I didn't Google it was to avoid getting spoilered as to what happens), you end up wasting the time of some poor volunteer on a mental health chatline.
Why?
Really sorry, I've reported my own post and it'll hopefully be deleted. I genuinely thought that anyone would clock that text thing as what it was, as it's very widely advertised (although it's possible that I see it more than some due to this and that, so it's completely emblazoned on my brain). Didn't think anyone would actually do it as it was intended to be a glib 'you lot are going a bit weird in the absence of any actual information on the next series' gag. Which isn't actually funny, admittedly, but it's only got to seem funny in the one second it takes to hit post.
Sorry for shitting up the thread. Doubly sorry that it was this one and not the Chibnall one.
In fairness, I do find the idea of accidentally texting a mental health text service and then having to sheepishly apologise and tell them you thought you were going to get a Doctor Who easter egg is quite funny.
Quote from: purlieu on April 05, 2022, 08:59:29 PMI doubt there'll be a TARDIS. Every other aspect of Doctor Who has changed since it started in 2005, I reckon it's about time they got rid of it and had Doctor Who stay in one place and time. Probably become a policeman for the next few years.
And fall in love with all the companions and sulk around like a bloody teenager when they leave and exhibit hitherto unseen magic powers like flying and being god, even though those powers would have come in handy in all the previous stories.
Do you reckon they might gradually shift the regeneration effect into greater variety again? I miss them being different each time the way they were in the classic era.
Quote from: jamiefairlie on April 07, 2022, 05:42:29 PMAnd fall in love with all the companions and sulk around like a bloody teenager when they leave and exhibit hitherto unseen magic powers like flying and being god, even though those powers would have come in handy in all the previous stories.
It's really hard to backpedal once you go so far into that territory. Once the Doctor is a superhero you have to start writing more excuses for why he/she isn't every week just farting themselves up into a giant floating purple cloud and resurrecting everyone.
All three showrunners have done it to one degree or another, so I don't expect a returning RTD to do any different, but what I would give for the Doctor to just become a wanderer who fixes problems again. I don't want the character to be Important all the time.
Quote from: purlieu on April 07, 2022, 07:20:52 PMAll three showrunners have done it to one degree or another, so I don't expect a returning RTD to do any different, but what I would give for the Doctor to just become a wanderer who fixes problems again. I don't want the character to be Important all the time.
What you want is Jodie Whittaker's first season.
The lack of the Doctor being the focus of every galaxy-spanning catastrophe was one of many decisions I liked about Chibnall's first season (along with the return of educational historicals and the lack of an arc leading to a bombastic finale), just a shame it wasn't someone else doing the actual writing. The introduction of the timeless child thing in the second episode also made me fear the worst (although it turned out to be far worse than I imagined).
Quote from: gilbertharding on April 06, 2022, 12:54:33 PMStrange - he doesn't look like a wrong-un.
(http://www.endofthelane.co.uk/images/Buzzcocks%201.png)
"Hmmm, pretending to be Dr Who didn't work, I know I'll do Jimmy Saville next, he's popular!"
QuoteShowrunner Chris Chibnall has said he expects his controversial canon changes to Doctor Who, the Timeless Child retcon being the biggest, will be ignored by his successors, including Russell T Davies.
Chibnall told the Radio Times: "You're not carrying a vase across a room – you've got to get in there and say what you want about the show, the character and the world."
He continues: "It's one of the few drama series without a written bible, and every era contains a contradiction or left-turn from what has come before. Any future showrunner will ignore it or run with it."
Chibnall concludes: "Oh, I fully expect Russell to ignore it!"
As for returning to the show to write another episode, Chibnall makes it very clear: "Absolutely never again! Clear red line, final script."
He added"I never expected to come back after working with Steven [Moffat], really, and I'd turned it down a couple of times after that. I never thought I'd be offered the job and built into that is why I wanted to keep it to a very specific three-series thing.
"Supervising teenagers' revision is taking up my time now and there's lots of other things to write! I will happily sit back and watch. For all that it's been gorgeous all along, now it's like, 'Oh I remember this. This is what real life is like!'"
QuoteChibnall told the Radio Times: "You're not carrying a vase across a room – you've got to get in there and say what you want about the show, the character and the world."
To be fair, he's not wrong about that. It's just that what he wanted to say about the show and the way he did it was unremittingly shit.
Quote from: Alberon on April 12, 2022, 09:02:02 AMTo be fair, he's not wrong about that. It's just that what he wanted to say about the show and the way he did it was unremittingly shit.
He hasn't realised the crucial difference between himself and all previous showrunners.
You can say all you want "about the show, the character and the world" within your own historical bubble.
You can say "here is the present day of our characters, this is what they think of the Doctor, these are the issues of now and here are our characters dealing with those" without at any point subtracting from the bigger picture by creating an origin story for a character who hasn't needed one for almost 60 years.
You can make a single incarnation of the Doctor half-human, or even - much as I loathe it - more romantic than other incarnations with an ambiguous relationship status with the companion. I hate that stuff but it still becomes historical - it is still of its time and doesn't insist on being seen from now on as forever sitting within the foundations of the show itself.
If the showrunner's role was what Chibnall assumed, the history of Doctor Who would be like Texas Chainsaw Massacre sequels, prequels and remakes in its attempts to establish, correct, amend and reboot where the Doctor actually came from. In actual fact it has been an organic process up until now: the Doctor has a planet of origin, it is called Gallifrey, his/her people are known as Time Lords, they regenerate, and it was a gradual process as the show needed it. Little by little the various producers of the show built on what came before. There was never any cunt going "I only have three series - I must quickly assert my choices on what has hitherto been a collaborative process. This will prove that I was right about The Brain of Morbius all those playtimes ago."
Chibnall couldn't help himself. Or he's too thick to see the difference. Either way I hope his teenage children ignore his revision advice because it'll be shite.
Quote from: Replies From View on April 12, 2022, 08:09:50 AMAs for returning to the show to write another episode, Chibnall makes it very clear: "Absolutely never again! Clear red line, final script."
Thank Christ for that!
Quote from: daf on April 12, 2022, 10:28:19 AMThank Christ for that!
RTD said the same thing, though. As has Moffat, who I am suspecting will nevertheless write an episode or two once a few more years have passed.
That'll be because they want to rather than because they feel obliged to.
Quote from: purlieu on April 12, 2022, 10:46:05 AMThat'll be because they want to rather than because they feel obliged to.
Same thing could occur with Chibnall.
The strange thing here is that Chibnall has always had the vibe of a man hurriedly getting some tedious chores completed rather than enthusiastically grappling with his teenage self's dream job. I can't wrap my head around how empty of all passion he has always looked and sounded. His writing, wherever it is, on screen or in the pages of DWM, feels like he's word-counting from 50 words onwards.
I can imagine him being asked to choke out another script one day, and him doing it as a chore just as it has always seemed.
I would like to think he'll be treated as a bit of a poisoned chalice after this and will hopefully never be invited back. That, or the show would have to be in a ludicrously poor state for someone to say "hey, that guy who was in charge of the least popular era of the show, let's get him back!"
Quote from: purlieu on April 12, 2022, 10:53:47 AMI would like to think he'll be treated as a bit of a poisoned chalice after this and will hopefully never be invited back. That, or the show would have to be in a ludicrously poor state for someone to say "hey, that guy who was in charge of the least popular era of the show, let's get him back!"
I don't feel for certain that everyone else sees it our way, though. We are an echo chamber.
Has it been the least popular era of the show? Do we just feel that because we have hated it? And for other people, is Chibnall actively bad, or simply not up to the standard of RTD and Moffat?
He was asked back multiple times during RTD and Moffat's time, he was showrunning Torchwood; I definitely feel like I'm in something of a dual reality situation where others are seeing something I'm not, and vice versa.
I'd say he probably knows where the bodies are hidden, but a deluded guy who's managed to manipulate people and blackmail his way to the top would have a modicum of passion at least.
It's very baffling.
It seems the least popular of the modern era. The ratings have slid dramatically since the first Whittaker season.
We hate his work for clear reasons, but it is more a case of him being crashingly average. His best is an average episode of Stargate SG-1. One of the areas he's below average is dialogue which he has no ear for. RTD and Moffatt are hard acts to follow, add the all-consuming nature of the job I mention in the other thread and you can see why most qualified people do not want to do it.
Torchwood was probably partly to prepare him for taking over and after Moffatt he was probably the only one considered qualified who would do it.
Quote from: Replies From View on April 12, 2022, 10:58:30 AMHe was asked back multiple times during RTD and Moffat's time, he was showrunning Torchwood; I definitely feel like I'm in something of a dual reality situation where others are seeing something I'm not, and vice versa.
I'd say he probably knows where the bodies are hidden, but a deluded guy who's managed to manipulate people and blackmail his way to the top would have a modicum of passion at least.
It's very baffling.
It's "just" nepotism. They gave him work because they're mates. See also: Big Finish and the BBC Books range.
Quote from: Replies From View on April 12, 2022, 10:58:30 AMI don't feel for certain that everyone else sees it our way, though. We are an echo chamber.
Has it been the least popular era of the show? Do we just feel that because we have hated it? And for other people, is Chibnall actively bad, or simply not up to the standard of RTD and Moffat?
He was asked back multiple times during RTD and Moffat's time, he was showrunning Torchwood; I definitely feel like I'm in something of a dual reality situation where others are seeing something I'm not, and vice versa.
I'd say he probably knows where the bodies are hidden, but a deluded guy who's managed to manipulate people and blackmail his way to the top would have a modicum of passion at least.
It's very baffling.
I think Jodie's Doctor is the most unpopular of the modern Doctors and it's nothing to do with her being a woman. I wonder if Chibnall has just been a placeholder showrunner until RTD wanted to come back.
It always felt like Chibnall came in because nobody else wanted to do it, but I don't think the plan has always been for RTD to return.
I'd guess the BBC wanted to keep going with the previous production method (as per RTD and Moffat) for as long as it would last, and under Chibnall they've come to realise it's a mode of production that has no future. If other people had been leaping over themselves to take over from Moffat, things would have worked out differently. Likewise if Chibnall had kept ratings high, the BBC would have been happy to keep chugging along indefinitely.
The current situation smacks of RTD stepping in to rescue the show after Chibnall drove it into the ground, but I suspect it's more that the previous production model was no longer tenable, and to keep the show going RTD needed to step in with Bad Wolf Productions bringing in more money and presumably a more dedicated, focused team behind the scenes. It was always going to be necessary once the well of 1970s/80s fans willing to run the show ran dry. So I'm contradicting myself now - maybe it has been the plan for a long time after all.
For laziness' sake:
Quote from: BritishHobo on April 17, 2022, 09:50:13 PMThis (https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-61111999) BBC News article states that the next Doctor 'is expected to be revealed in the coming weeks.'
How far into the future do you have to go before the weeks stop coming?
I suppose production is starting soon so they can't hold it back.
Quote from: Replies From View on April 12, 2022, 10:58:30 AMI don't feel for certain that everyone else sees it our way, though. We are an echo chamber.
Has it been the least popular era of the show? Do we just feel that because we have hated it? And for other people, is Chibnall actively bad, or simply not up to the standard of RTD and Moffat?
He's someone who can turn out a telly script that vaguely hits the right notes and is the right length. He'd probably turn out solid episodes of Matlock or something, but he's out of his depth running a series. He was out of his depth with Broadchurch beyond the first series.
I do kind of feel for him a bit, because he must know he's done a shit job. Not only has he followed two of our best TV writers, but he was almost certainly instructed to make the thing more age-appropriate again. It had become ridiculously grim by the end of Moffat's run, which was seen as sort of acceptable as the audience of the reboot had grown up with it. It really needed to snap back at some point, and Chibnall has carried the can for that.
Someone more talented would have pulled it off a lot better, of course.
Quote from: Rev+ on April 19, 2022, 11:42:40 PMI do kind of feel for him a bit, because he must know he's done a shit job. Not only has he followed two of our best TV writers, but he was almost certainly instructed to make the thing more age-appropriate again. It had become ridiculously grim by the end of Moffat's run, which was seen as sort of acceptable as the audience of the reboot had grown up with it. It really needed to snap back at some point, and Chibnall has carried the can for that.
If I have one positive thing to say about the Chibnall era it's all concerning his first series, it did feel different and sort of refreshing to have a series of one-off stories with no returning villains that had so little connection to what had come before. I honestly wish he'd stuck with it and tried to perfect it rather than the disastrous road he went down. I'm not even necessarily talking about the Timeless Child bollocks, all of his Dalek stories are like watching paint dry.
Quote from: Rev+ on April 19, 2022, 11:42:40 PMHe's someone who can turn out a telly script that vaguely hits the right notes and is the right length. He'd probably turn out solid episodes of Matlock or something, but he's out of his depth running a series. He was out of his depth with Broadchurch beyond the first series.
I do kind of feel for him a bit, because he must know he's done a shit job. Not only has he followed two of our best TV writers, but he was almost certainly instructed to make the thing more age-appropriate again. It had become ridiculously grim by the end of Moffat's run, which was seen as sort of acceptable as the audience of the reboot had grown up with it. It really needed to snap back at some point, and Chibnall has carried the can for that.
Someone more talented would have pulled it off a lot better, of course.
If he was instructed to make the show age-appropriate, then he took that as an invitation to make a version that was impenetrable in its basic storytelling, and loaded with gibberish about an ancient backstory.
Because Jodie Whittaker had nothing else to go on, she has been playing her version of the Doctor as a breathless supply teacher out of her depth. Maybe on some surface level that's made it feel more like a kids show than it did under RTD, but it's not.
Quote from: The Roofdog on April 20, 2022, 01:06:27 AMIf I have one positive thing to say about the Chibnall era it's all concerning his first series, it did feel different and sort of refreshing to have a series of one-off stories with no returning villains that had so little connection to what had come before. I honestly wish he'd stuck with it and tried to perfect it rather than the disastrous road he went down. I'm not even necessarily talking about the Timeless Child bollocks, all of his Dalek stories are like watching paint dry.
It's his use of the Master I've found most aggrieving. Simultaneously baffling to anyone new and angering to anyone familiar with the show, who felt the character needed more of a break than eleven episodes after Moffat's series 10 finale.
Also, for all the chat about how great it was that he wanted to return the show to its historical education roots (I too thought this was a sound idea), how inspiring that our lesson on Madame Ching consisted entirely of:
"You're Madame Ching! Wow!"
Quote from: notjosh on April 20, 2022, 07:27:14 AMAlso, for all the chat about how great it was that he wanted to return the show to its historical education roots (I too thought this was a sound idea), how inspiring that our lesson on Madame Ching consisted entirely of:
"You're Madame Ching! Wow!"
The problem with having such a shite showrunner / head writer is that when things like that don't work out, it ends up reflecting badly on the experiment rather than the idiot who can't do it properly.
There will most definitely be people around arguing that having a woman Doctor has now been proven unsuccessful, for example.
Quote from: Replies From View on April 20, 2022, 11:06:12 AMThe problem with having such a shite showrunner / head writer is that when things like that don't work out, it ends up reflecting badly on the experiment rather than the idiot who can't do it properly.
There will most definitely be people around arguing that having a woman Doctor has now been proven unsuccessful, for example.
There absolutely are, and people saying the problem is that it's "too woke" in general, even though Doctor Who under Chibnall is - at least in front of the camera - more conservative than it's been since 2005. It's just that before, all the anti-racist, anti-misogynist, anti-LGBT+phobic, anti-authoritarian stuff was surrounded by clever, fun writing that sugared the pill. Now right-wing thickos aren't enjoying it any more, they assume it's because of the politics within the show, rather than the show just being shite.
Quote from: Replies From View on April 20, 2022, 11:06:12 AMThere will most definitely be people around arguing that having a woman Doctor has now been proven unsuccessful, for example.
It didn't help that any criticism of the show is denounced as sexism or some such by a vocal number. Thankfully none on here. For a few years, I avoided even speaking of the show after I had to explain to somebody why I don't watch it anymore because they wrongly assumed it was due to a female lead.
It does seem over the years that this sort of backlash to a backlash has died down. The days of an all female Ghostbusters movie being the most important movie of a generation because Sony wants us to think that are long gone. Campaigns like the one behind that film are seemingly far more transparent to people now.
I do feel that more and more over the last year, the ire has been directed at Chibnall's feet. Criticism still seems so apologetic: "Doctor Who is so absolutely terrible these days... but Jodie Whittaker is great" and the like. The latest special feels like a watershed moment. The amount of prominent Who fans with knives out for Doctor Who, people who previously would never have a bad word to say about any Doctor Who except lovingly. The viewing figures seems to have really worried some that they can't grin and bear it.
It's probably due to how dull and low-stakes the run from the end of Flux to now has been. Everything into Flux felt like it was building toward something, but there was no real pay off at the end, other than the revelation that the Doctor is going to die.
The 2009 specials covered Ten trying to outrun his fate, then confronting it face on. In comparison, Thirteen's farewell tour feels like she's just drifting, listlessly to a death she can barely be arsed to acknowledge. No stakes for herself, no stakes for Dan or Yaz. There's absolutely nothing to care about.
We've now got ~60 minutes of television left for these characters and even the most generous of critics can't escape the realisation that if nothing interesting has happened to them yet it probably never will.
I'm hoping RTD gives as UNIT, a spin-off with Kate, Ace, Tegan and other cameos.
Janet Fielding has apparently hinted that they aren't the only 2 appearing which I guessed might be the case.
Quote from: Malcy on April 20, 2022, 05:49:16 PMJanet Fielding has apparently hinted that they aren't the only 2 appearing which I guessed might be the case.
I saw a thing on Gallifrey Base which might be bollocks saying that...
Spoiler alert
...Bradley Walsh, Colin Baker and Sylvester McCoy were all in a quickly deleted Instagram picture together in Cardiff.
This will actually backfire if it feels so much like a sickly sugary Doctor Who Anniversary Special that the 60th Anniversary can't find its own identity or the idea of yet more of this stuff makes people feel nauseous.
Maybe it'll allow RTD to do something more understated for the 60th though. Like The Day of the Doctor didn't need to feature past Doctors because The Name of the Doctor kind of covered them, and The Five(ish) Doctors Reboot celebrated them, maybe Chibnall getting balls-deep in classic companion/Doctor overload will free RTD up somewhat.
Quote from: JamesTC on April 20, 2022, 06:28:18 PMI saw a thing on Gallifrey Base which might be bollocks saying that...
Spoiler alert
...Bradley Walsh, Colin Baker and Sylvester McCoy were all in a quickly deleted Instagram picture together in Cardiff.
Maybe they were just getting together for
Spoiler alert
a joint prostate check.
Quote from: JamesTC on April 20, 2022, 06:28:18 PMI saw a thing on Gallifrey Base which might be bollocks saying that...
Spoiler alert
...Bradley Walsh, Colin Baker and Sylvester McCoy were all in a quickly deleted Instagram picture together in Cardiff.
Spoiler alert
Bradley definitely in it. Can understand McCoy with the Ace connection but not Baker.
How I would love a new Doctor to be all confused post-regeneration and have Ace & Tegan by his/her side though. That would be a nice lead in.
Quote from: Malcy on April 20, 2022, 07:26:00 PMSpoiler alert
Bradley definitely in it. Can understand McCoy with the Ace connection but not Baker.
Spoiler alert
There are some things even a 2:1 aspect ratio aren't wide enough for.
Quote from: Malcy on April 20, 2022, 07:26:53 PMHow I would love a new Doctor to be all confused post-regeneration and have Ace & Tegan by his/her side though. That would be a nice lead in.
And fall in love with them both and be all tormented and that
Quote from: JamesTC on April 20, 2022, 06:28:18 PMI saw a thing on Gallifrey Base which might be bollocks saying that...
Spoiler alert
...Bradley Walsh, Colin Baker and Sylvester McCoy were all in a quickly deleted Instagram picture together in Cardiff.
I saw a rumour on Reddit, from someone who'd been getting other things right, that there'd be
Spoiler alert
80s Doctors in it.
But surely they'd be
Spoiler alert
all fat and old and that
Do we have a rough idea of when the centenary episode will air? Some time in the autumn? I'm just itching to fuck Chibnall into a skip for eternity. Absolutely cannot wait.
Quote from: Mister Six on April 20, 2022, 11:15:28 PMDo we have a rough idea of when the centenary episode will air? Some time in the autumn? I'm just itching to fuck Chibnall into a skip for eternity. Absolutely cannot wait.
October is when all the centenary stuff is supposed to be airing.
Just six months, then, thank god.
Wonder if RTD could whip up a cheap Flash-animated short for Christmas? Seems a shame to not have anything during that period.
He could get the guy who did The Nan Movie animations and have it ready by Saturday
I'm pretty sure there will be something at Christmas, I mean it wouldn't surprise me if RTD is putting everything into getting a feature length done for Christmas and having a new series start in Autumn/Winter 2023 around the anniversary. Maybe that's just wishful thinking.
There might be a ten minute something, like the Paul McGann thing around the 50th.
Don't think RTD will let it pass without anything.
Oh yeah, that hadn't occurred to me, the first Christmas without a Doctor Who episode since 2004. Thanks Chibs. Thibs.
Quote from: The Roofdog on April 21, 2022, 11:58:16 PMOh yeah, that hadn't occurred to me, the first Christmas without a Doctor Who episode since 2004. Thanks Chibs. Thibs.
Well, technically the fourth, because he switched to NYE specials. Thanks Chibs. Thibs.
Quote from: canted_angle_again on April 21, 2022, 09:04:06 PMI'm pretty sure there will be something at Christmas, I mean it wouldn't surprise me if RTD is putting everything into getting a feature length done for Christmas and having a new series start in Autumn/Winter 2023 around the anniversary. Maybe that's just wishful thinking.
It almost certainly is.
Quote from: Mister Six on April 22, 2022, 02:23:26 AMWell, technically the fourth, because he switched to NYE specials. Thanks Chibs. Thibs.
Thunt
I call him Chinballs so
Thalls
Wasn't sure where to put this, but it's to do with the RTD-1 era, so... What the hell is this? https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B09FGV4XW6
It appears to be a straightforward, beat-for-beat and line-for-line rip-off of series 1 of RTD's Doctor Who, but with the Doctor replaced by the Eschaton throughout. Being sold for £7.29 on Amazon. There's also a book 2, which looks to be the same, but for series 2.
Should I report this to the BBC?
That's just bizarre.
Especially weird since it uses "Doctor Who" on the cover of the book, so clearly isn't seeking to be unrelated.
- knock knock
- who's there
- eschaton
- ESCHATON WHO
- *points at a bloke down the road who is covered head to toe in raw sewage*
The TARDIS is on the cover too. What's going on?!
The BBC wouldn't take kindly to that at all -- I published an academic book on Doctor Who, and we (not a royal we; I had a co-editor) couldn't even get permission from the BBC for short quotes from episodes.
You can read the first few pages and it's a total rip of the dialogue and the rest is just low grade fan fiction.
But yeah report it. Putting this up for free on a fan site is one thing, trying to make money off of it is another.
Eschaton sounds like something Hartnell would refer to Ian as.
I thought at first that it was going to be an alternative retelling. WHAT IF... the Ninth Doctor was a woman? And so on. But it seems like the answer to the WHAT IF is 'everything happens exactly as it does in the show'.
Meanwhile David Tennant deliberately refuses to confirm or deny anything.
QuoteDuring a recent appearance at German Comic-Con, Tennant was asked about the speculation, to which he replied: "I've been asked a version of this question for the last 20 years and I've learnt through bitter experience that there's not any point even answering it, because whatever I say is spun by whoever wants to hear it.
"There's no point in me denying it, there's no point in me confirming it, there's no point in me fudging it," he continued (via RadioTimes). "Whatever I say will become whatever the internet wants it to be."
The Good Omens star went on to say that "it would be quite a weird idea" for a former Doctor to make a comeback – something that hasn't been done before in Doctor Who's 59-year history.
"It's not something that you'd necessarily expect from Doctor Who," Tennant concluded. "That's all I can... I'm not going to try giving any more than that because what's the point?"
Hmm.
That last sentence in particular has the formation of a person concealing something. About something entirely false would you start (and then stop yourself) saying, "That's all I can say"? So I'd say if he's not involved in some manner, he's deliberately trolling because it gets people talking about the show, and why not.
We'll see.
Either way, I was amused by the disgruntled tone of those quotes. He presumably delivered them in a jocular way, but written down they're reminiscent of that SNL sketch in which Shatner finally snaps and tells Star Trek fans to get a life.
It does smack a little of that moment on the Kermode and Mayo radio show when they were needling Cillian Murphy about whether or not he was in the third Nolan Batman film, and he was eventually forced to say he couldn't confirm or deny it because he'd 'signed a thing'. Meaning that he definitely was, because he'd not have been compelled to do so otherwise.
Definite appearance, but definitely not as a new incarnation, is the feeling I get from that.
Rumblings of announcement this weekend. Pinch of salt and all that.
Calling it now: Biggins.
Quote from: Rev+ on April 26, 2022, 09:04:55 PMDefinite appearance, but definitely not as a new incarnation, is the feeling I get from that.
It's surely nailed-on that both Tennant and Smith will say yes to an appearance in the 60th anniversary if asked, right? So whether they appear will only be down to whether that's the kind of story RTD wants to tell in November 2023.
It's funny how Tennant and Smith have become the Troughton and Pertwee of 21st century anniversary stories (at least in terms of potential, since they undoubtedly
will return if asked), with Eccleston and Capaldi slipping into the Hartnell and Tom Baker roles respectively. If
The Day of the Doctor can be compared with
The Three Doctors, we only had Tennant and Smith returning, with a write-around to fill the Eccleston spot. And if RTD were to go the
Five Doctors route for the 60th (unlikely, but no matter), the participating former Doctors would be Tennant, Smith and Whittaker, this era's Davison. Just like
The Five Doctors, we would really only have the two active ones from
The Three Doctors, plus the newest incarnation.
Just funny, that's all. And it means we can expect to look out for the 14th Doctor having their own runaround with Tennant in 2025, to mirror
The Two Doctors.
Quote from: Ballad of Ballard Berkley on April 26, 2022, 09:22:27 PMCalling it now: Biggins.
Already played the Doctor for Big Finish in The One Doctor that was loosely adapted for telly as The Next Doctor.
Just made me think of a story my cousin told me about when she worked for Sky or something and he called up asking for someone to change the batteries in his remote...
This is a weird thought: David Tennant is now only four years younger than Capaldi was when he filmed series 8 in 2014.
Weird because, when Capaldi was announced as the Doctor in 2013, he was amused by the interviewer saying that he was the oldest Doctor to play the part since Hartnell. Which of course he was.
But now Tennant is catching up!
AARGH GOD WE ARE ALL AGING
Quote from: Alberon on April 26, 2022, 06:54:10 PMYou can read the first few pages and it's a total rip of the dialogue and the rest is just low grade fan fiction.
But yeah report it. Putting this up for free on a fan site is one thing, trying to make money off of it is another.
Can't find any info on the BBC website on how to contact them about stuff like this, and I can't really be arsed to go out of my way to let them know. They seem to go to so much effort finding YouTube reviews with fair use clips and trying to get them demonetised, if they don't bother searching for rip-offs like this on Amazon I reckon it's their lookout.
Quote from: olliebean on April 26, 2022, 10:41:32 PMCan't find any info on the BBC website on how to contact them about stuff like this, and I can't really be arsed to go out of my way to let them know. They seem to go to so much effort finding YouTube reviews with fair use clips and trying to get them demonetised, if they don't bother searching for rip-offs like this on Amazon I reckon it's their lookout.
Have you no spite, man?
You can contact them with comments/links to the books, if you want to.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/contact/comments
It looks like someone took some fan fiction (https://www.wattpad.com/story/20605536-apocalypse-rising-book-one) and fed it through a thesaurus.
QuoteShe never took her A levels. She had to drop out of school to support her boyfriend.
She was just an ordinary shop girl in 2005. She was nothing special.
One trip in the basement of Henrik's changed that forever.
Rose Tyler was nearly killed by mannequins when a mysterious woman known only as the Apocalypse saves her life, then runs off like nothing happened.
But Rose met her again, and after saving the world, she is offered a chance to travel through time and space. She accepts.
But if Rose thought her past wasn't one to be proud of, she never expected the Apocalypse's story as the mystery of Bad Wolf follows them.
After all, the Apocalypse didn't choose her title for nothing.
First in the Apocalypse Rising series.
QuoteShe never got straight As. She had to drop out of school to support her beau. There was nothing special about her. She was just a regular shop girl in 2005. But everything has changed forever since her one trip to the basement of Henrik's. Rose Tyler was closely killed by mannequins when an enigmatic woman, known only as the Eschaton, saves her life, then escapes like nothing happened.
But Rose met her again, and after saving the world, she is offered a chance to travel through time and space, a rare opportunity which she takes. But if Rose thought her past wasn't one to be proud of, she never expected the Eschaton's story as the mystery of Bad Wolf follows them. After all, the Eschaton didn't choose her title for nothing.
First installment in the Eschaton Ascending series.
Quote from: waste of chops on April 27, 2022, 11:47:50 AMIt looks like someone took some fan fiction (https://www.wattpad.com/story/20605536-apocalypse-rising-book-one) and fed it through a thesaurus.
The text of that fan fiction seems to be word-for-word identical to the novel (apart from "Apocalypse" being replaced by "Eschaton"). So it's not even been fed through a thesaurus. I presume it's the same author, unless someone is ripping off fan fiction that is already a rip off of the show.
Six books so far in that fanfic series, ffs, with a seventh to come (and presumably more beyond).
Quote from: olliebean on April 27, 2022, 06:05:07 PMThe text of that fan fiction seems to be word-for-word identical to the novel (apart from "Apocalypse" being replaced by "Eschaton"). So it's not even been fed through a thesaurus.
There are a few differences, including Rose going from "nearly being killed" to "closely being killed".
I wasn't that arsed before, but I reckon profiting off someone's
fanfiction is really low. Might see if I can figure out how to report it later.
I've a feeling that sorting out the refunds wouldn't take very long
Quote from: Malcy on April 26, 2022, 09:47:27 PMAlready played the Doctor for Big Finish in The One Doctor that was loosely adapted for telly as The Next Doctor.
Ah right, I did not know that.
Think it's on spotify - it's a very funny one!
I only started listening to that one the other day. I did applaud the sound effect of Biggins' TARDIS.
STARDIS! ;)
Quote from: Mister Six on April 27, 2022, 06:32:09 PMThere are a few differences, including Rose going from "nearly being killed" to "closely being killed".
That's just the synopsis, though. The text of the actual novel seems word-for-word identical (apart from Apocalypse/Eschalon and the odd spelling/grammar correction), at least from as much of it as I could be arsed to skim-read (first couple of chapters).
Ah, right. Good on you for bothering to read the thing.
Quote from: olliebean on April 26, 2022, 05:22:36 PMWasn't sure where to put this, but it's to do with the RTD-1 era, so... What the hell is this? https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B09FGV4XW6
It appears to be a straightforward, beat-for-beat and line-for-line rip-off of series 1 of RTD's Doctor Who, but with the Doctor replaced by the Eschaton throughout. Being sold for £7.29 on Amazon. There's also a book 2, which looks to be the same, but for series 2.
Should I report this to the BBC?
I just dobbed 'em in to the Beeb. If they were trying to flog their own shite fanfic I wouldn't be arsed, but selling someone else's rewriting of RTD's who is going too far.
Plus it's quite comforting to take one of life's cunts and make them feel miserable for a bit. Power to the people, and all that.
Christopher Eschaton.
Please don't be angry at me, I am doing my best
Martha only stayed for one series because Eschaton her.
Excuse me, but my take on the "Doctor Who?" knock knock joke was astonishingly brilliant, yet nobody liked it so you need to be punished by reading it again.
Quote from: Replies From View on April 26, 2022, 05:52:30 PM- knock knock
- who's there
- eschaton
- ESCHATON WHO
- *points at a bloke down the road who is covered head to toe in raw sewage*
Is that joke predicated on the fact you can't pronounce eschaton
- knock knock
- who's there
- eschaton
- ESCHATON WHO
- bless you
Hard CH innit, mate.
But really, that is very cheeky stuff indeed, as well as sort of maddeningly entitled and lazy; rather than making up their own thing from whole cloth (and risking the possibility of no one being interested), they've just nicked "Rose" and changed some of the words/inserted their own poorly conceived character. And left the words Doctor Who on the cover! Rotten, hope they get sued blue.
Doctor Who and the Eschatons, an audio play by Victor Eschaton.
Quote from: pigamus on April 28, 2022, 10:54:54 PMIs that joke predicated on the fact you can't pronounce eschaton
I will make you read it again if you don't shut your absolute mouth
I've written a letter to the Radio Times saying "The reason I'm writin'/Is how to say eschaton", just to annoy Barry Letts
It's just plain weird that no one has mentioned The Shamen yet. What is wrong with you people?
FFS, look at the video. It's set in space, just like Doctor Who is. This Eschaton character is clearly taking the piss. #Legend
Quote from: Ballad of Ballard Berkley on April 29, 2022, 12:24:42 AMIt's just plain weird that no one has mentioned The Shamen yet. What is wrong with you people?
SHAME ON THEM, AM I RIGHT READERS
Quote from: JamesTC on April 28, 2022, 11:00:18 PM- knock knock
- who's there
- eschaton
- ESCHATON WHO
- bless you
Genuinely laughed at this.
(https://i.ibb.co/GxWwsCZ/Screenshot-2022-04-29-at-13-48-07.png) (https://imgbb.com/)
I suddenly felt very cold, inside.
A cruel, cruel joke, that.
You just know Whittaker would regenerate into Corden and the first thing he'd do is feel his chest and say "well I've still got tits so I'm still a girl" and then do a grin to camera.
Has anyone done a Christopher Eschaton joke yet?
If not:
Christopher Eschaton.
Quote from: JamesTC on April 29, 2022, 02:19:36 PMYou just know Whittaker would regenerate into Corden and the first thing he'd do is feel his chest and say "well I've still got tits so I'm still a girl" and then do a grin to camera.
As much as I loathe James Corden as a TV "character", he is a very good actor and I liked him as Craig in those two Matt Smith episodes.
I still don't want him to be The Doctor, but if it happened it wouldn't be the end of the world.
I imagine RTD will either go with someone younger and more conventionally attractive, or someone more famous/surprising, though. I also can't imagine Corden ditching a US talk show gig to play Doctor Who on British telly for three years. I imagine he's got a cushy game show or something lined up instead.
Quote from: Mister Six on April 29, 2022, 02:25:31 PMHas anyone done a Christopher Eschaton joke yet?
If not:
Christopher Eschaton.
Quote from: McDead on April 28, 2022, 08:16:50 PMChristopher Eschaton.
So glad this is a new page, wonderful
DAMMIT.
Onward ever ever on
Destination Eccleston
Nowhere to hide nowhere to run
From Alpha Centauri into Omega
Quote from: Ballad of Ballard Berkley on April 29, 2022, 12:24:42 AMIt's just plain weird that no one has mentioned The Shamen yet. What is wrong with you people?
Well I was going to, but having been away from the thread for a couple of days, I saw that you'd beaten me to it.
This show needs more LSI (love, sex, intelligence)
Friend of a friend bumped into RTD, who assured them that we could expect an announcement on the new Doctor in the next few weeks.
I dunno if this is news to anyone, but I'm going to be grasping that straw hard to get me through the last gasps of the Chibnall reign.
BOSS Drum
Thanks
Quote from: Mister Six on May 02, 2022, 10:33:17 PMFriend of a friend bumped into RTD, who assured them that we could expect an announcement on the new Doctor in the next few weeks.
I dunno if this is news to anyone, but I'm going to be grasping that straw hard to get me through the last gasps of the Chibnall reign.
The new Doctor will actually be two people! Ha, imagine the hilarity of that scene!!!! They'll also be dead sassy with each other, flirting and that.
The Doctor could theoretically regenerate into half of a Siamese twin.
(But not all of one, unless it was a multi-Doctor story.)
Has anyone ever written a multi-storey Doctor?
Quote from: Norton Canes on May 03, 2022, 09:02:00 AMHas anyone ever written a multi-storey Doctor?
Colin Baker had a good attempt at it.
Quote from: thr0b on May 03, 2022, 09:45:22 AMColin Baker had a good attempt at it.
He failed quite miserably if he wasn't aiming for suburban sprawl.
Chibnall's last story will reveal that the reason the Doctor spends so much time on Earth, and in the UK specifically, is that London is actually a pre-Hartnell incarnation of the Doctor, meaning that every time the Doctor has visited London has actually been a multi-Doctor story.
Quote from: Replies From View on May 05, 2022, 06:07:45 PM
Is this your YouTube account, Replies? I'm enjoying the videos.
No, it's not my account. They just keep popping up in my feed and the headlines alone are the news I'd share here.
For future reference, I am 42 years old and not however old he is.
I won't believe anything unless I see it on PLymouth Live.
I wonder how the next doctor will be revealed.
We've had the live special and a teaser for Capaldi & Whittaker. Smith had a photo shoot. Tennant & Eccleston were just press releases as far as i can remember. 18 years since Eccleston was announced is hard for me to accept!
If there's not a baffled-looking Sue Barker I'm not interested, it would spoil the magic
Quote from: pigamus on May 06, 2022, 08:41:31 PMIf there's not a baffled-looking Sue Barker I'm not interested, it would spoil the magic.
If I remember rightly her exact words were, "That's just been announced." Yes Sue, you just announced it!
What, oh I've fucked it now
Quote from: Malcy on May 06, 2022, 08:33:56 PMI wonder how the next doctor will be revealed.
We've had the live special and a teaser for Capaldi & Whittaker. Smith had a photo shoot. Tennant & Eccleston were just press releases as far as i can remember. 18 years since Eccleston was announced is hard for me to accept!
Smith had an episode of Doctor Who Confidential where he was revealed at the end.
It's hard to find online, unfortunately. I've no idea why.
I seem to remember they cut to him discussing the role with no buildup. He's suddenly just there on the screen. Worked very well I thought.
Quote from: Replies From View on May 06, 2022, 10:21:23 PMSmith had an episode of Doctor Who Confidential where he was revealed at the end.
It's hard to find online, unfortunately. I've no idea why.
Forgot about that, i'm sure i have that on an external somewhere.
If anyone has a copy of it please hook me up.
Quote from: Alberon on May 06, 2022, 10:24:03 PMI seem to remember they cut to him discussing the role with no buildup. He's suddenly just there on the screen. Worked very well I thought.
Yeah that was exactly it, was a case of Who is this guy then the realisation.
Quote from: Alberon on May 06, 2022, 10:24:03 PMI seem to remember they cut to him discussing the role with no buildup. He's suddenly just there on the screen. Worked very well I thought.
It was great, I agree. Here's your new Doctor. This guy. Trust us, he'll be brilliant.
Moffat and co obviously knew what they were doing. You can't ostentatiously introduce a new Doctor if he or she are unknown to the general public. The famous actor Peter Capaldi getting a whole build–up show? That makes sense. It was a big deal.
Just a hunch, but I reckon RTD will actually copy one of Chibnall's few good ideas: announcing the new Doctor with a teaser trailer during coverage of a major sporting event watched by millions. 14th May, then? As previously mentioned? I wouldn't be surprised.
Quote from: Replies From View on May 06, 2022, 10:25:53 PMIf anyone has a copy of it please hook me up.
It really is quite odd, that episode not being available on YouTube.
I've put a few pieces of old TV up on youtube I've found on the ends of video tapes or recorded on DVD years ago. I put up a Mark Lawson interview with Iain Banks, I wanted to put up another with Tery Pratchett but it was immediately deleted by youtube the second I uploaded it. Possibly that's what is happening if anyone tries to upload that Doctor Who Confidential.
The Eleventh Doctor Confidential is here on Daily Motion. (https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7zgipu)
Thanks, JamesTC!
Quote from: Ballad of Ballard Berkley on May 06, 2022, 10:45:15 PMJust a hunch, but I reckon RTD will actually copy one of Chibnall's few good ideas: announcing the new Doctor with a teaser trailer during coverage of a major sporting event watched by millions. 14th May, then? As previously mentioned? I wouldn't be surprised.
What's happening on May 14? I didn't get into Doctor Who so I'd have to care about sporting events. Very much the opposite, in fact.
Quote from: Alberon on May 06, 2022, 11:03:12 PMI've put a few pieces of old TV up on youtube I've found on the ends of video tapes or recorded on DVD years ago. I put up a Mark Lawson interview with Iain Banks, I wanted to put up another with Tery Pratchett but it was immediately deleted by youtube the second I uploaded it. Possibly that's what is happening if anyone tries to upload that Doctor Who Confidential.
Coo, can you throw me a link to the Banks interview?
Quote from: Mister Six on May 07, 2022, 01:16:31 AMWhat's happening on May 14? I didn't get into Doctor Who so I'd have to care about sporting events. Very much the opposite, in fact.
Same here but even I know it's the FA Cup Final, which will get the BBC an absurd number of viewers. They've announced a new Doctor during half time before, and with the date being the 14th? Too many stars aligning. You'd feel daft for not doing it. Open goal, you might say.
Ha, yeah, that'd be perfect. Only a week away, too! Fingers crossed...
This video on how every new Doctor was announced contains the DWC clip of Matt appearing:
https://youtu.be/gKP_iPt1pRk (22:15)
I loved the way they did it, it was so exciting.
If they announce it during a sporting event, I guess I'll see it on YouTube.
I do love this concept that sports enthusiasts and Doctor Who fans have this vast overlap that needs to be exploited.
Quote from: Mister Six on May 07, 2022, 01:16:31 AMCoo, can you throw me a link to the Banks interview?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsx6oHjnZVo
Quote from: Alberon on May 07, 2022, 05:31:31 PMhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsx6oHjnZVo
Thank you! :)
Quote from: Ballad of Ballard Berkley on May 06, 2022, 10:45:15 PMJust a hunch, but I reckon RTD will actually copy one of Chibnall's few good ideas: announcing the new Doctor with a teaser trailer during coverage of a major sporting event watched by millions. 14th May, then? As previously mentioned? I wouldn't be surprised.
Technically, didn't Moffat do that first, with the specially filmed scene to introduce Bill?
Must admit, I don't remember that.
Quote from: Ron Maels Moustache on May 07, 2022, 06:28:48 PMTechnically, didn't Moffat do that first, with the specially filmed scene to introduce Bill?
Yeah. During half-time of the semi-final of the FA Cup in 2016. Weirdly it took nearly a year to air, which meant they ended up showing a series trailer during the quarter-finals of the following year's FA Cup.
Imagine your bog standard football fan.
Now picture them being totally into Doctor Who as well as football.
Haha!
Next Doctor's been announced...
Spoiler alert
https://www.doctorwho.tv/news-and-features/ncuti-gatwa-is-the-doctor
Nice casual announcement when nobody's expecting it.
https://twitter.com/bbcdoctorwho/status/1523263950661775360?s=21&t=tT-Pzmsp5OHGR4jdxMAE7Q
New doctor is some fella by the name of Ncuti Gatwa.
Looks like the FEMsperiment is GIRLver
I'm very intrigued. Never seen Sex Education although I know people rave about it. I like it being someone I've no preconceived ideas about so I don't think I'll watch it now until I've seen him as the Doctor.
I'm excited!
He's brilliant in Sex Education. I think this is great casting. Unexpected but makes perfect sense.
Definitely works for me!
Crikey, a quiet announcement on a Sunday morning. RTD's definitely going for a different approach isn't he?
I'm sure his race will annoy as many people as him being male will placate.
Quote from: Replies From View on May 07, 2022, 08:05:46 PMImagine your bog standard football fan.
Now picture them being totally into Doctor Who as well as football.
Haha!
I suppose I'm not 'a bog standard fan' but yesterday I was watching The Stones of Blood episode 4 before I streamed Brentford making the Saints defence look like Ogri.
Only seen him in 2 of his 8 IMDB credits. Bob Servant and Stonemouth. I have both so may flick through and see what he's like as I don't remember.
I'm behind you all; I learned from this source:
A black homosexual called Shooty, it's a great day for the Daily Mail
brilliant choice. he's the star of the show in sex education, got bags of charisma. with RTD's scripts, he's going to be the funniest doctor we've had. can't wait!
Fabulous casting, he's amazing in Sex Education. Very exciting!
Ooh that is an interesting one. I had no desire at all to watch the last series of Sex Education but the one thing you could be sure of with that show was that he was always great in it. He has that good mix of being able to do both comedy and drama in equal measure.
very exciting!
THE NOVELISATION OF ROSE LIED TO US
Anyone got any representative examples of this guy's acting chops to peruse, for those of us with our fingers off the pulse of current television or the Google button?
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FSPOUTTXMAE4T5t?format=jpg&name=small)
Benjamin Cook just tweeted this lovely pic from today's TV BAFTA shindig.
Quote from: Replies From View on May 08, 2022, 02:20:11 PMAnyone got any representative examples of this guy's acting chops to peruse, for those of us with our fingers off the pulse of current television or the Google button?
I think he's amazing, he was my favourite actor in Sex Education. Here's a range of clips, some spoilers within of course.
Funny:
Emotional:
Angry:
Ncuti Gatwa is really good in Sex Education. Can definitely do comedy and more serious stuff (the episode where he gets abandoned at the bus stop perhaps his finest work). Looking forward to this.
I trust RTD's instincts, but I have to say that Gatwa was very annoying and unfunny in Sex Education. He certainly didn't exude any authority, but I suppose the part never called for it. I assume there's another side to him we've yet to see.
Quote from: gotmilk on May 08, 2022, 03:30:51 PMI trust RTD's instincts, but I have to say that Gatwa was very annoying and unfunny in Sex Education. He certainly didn't exude any authority, but I suppose the part never called for it. I assume there's another side to him we've yet to see.
Try that 3rd clip I posted above, if you haven't already seen it - shows a very different side to the flamboyance that the character usually displayed.
I see he's nominated for the 'Male performance in a comedy programme' BAFTA, and that RTD is also due to attend (because 'It's a Sin' is likely to win
everything), so it might be worth tuning in at 6pm.
Quote from: purlieu on May 08, 2022, 01:03:07 PMCrikey, a quiet announcement on a Sunday morning. RTD's definitely going for a different approach isn't he?
I'm guessing there was a threat of a leak and the Beeb had to scramble to release it. I'd have expected more bombast from RTD.
Never got around to watching Sex Education, but I reckon I'll have to now. The response seems to be positive from those who've seen the show, so that's a good sign.
Quote from: Ballad of Ballard Berkley on May 08, 2022, 02:48:25 PM(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FSPOUTTXMAE4T5t?format=jpg&name=small)
Benjamin Cook just tweeted this lovely pic from today's TV BAFTA shindig.
Sisqo biopic?
Not seen any of this fellow's work, but all of his promo shots are giving real doctor energy off. Actually looking forward to seeing where this might go, which compared to Chibnall era where I basically forgot it existed.
Quote from: Angst in my Pants on May 08, 2022, 03:50:34 PMI see he's nominated for the 'Male performance in a comedy programme' BAFTA, and that RTD is also due to attend (because 'It's a Sin' is likely to win everything), so it might be worth tuning in at 6pm.
Would have been quite the reveal if he won and signed off by announcing his casting!
Had hoped they'd go with a big name to draw in audiences that have drifted away, make it feel more like a big relaunch after the show's pop culture decline. I trust RTD of course, and don't doubt this guy will be great. I just don't know if it really says "We're back!" like a bigger household name might.
The first episode is the 60th special, so there's still a good chance of other big names.
Tennant might not be a special guest star Doctor between the 13th and 14th, but he might be back as the 10th. On the other hand do you want to start a new Doctor's run with an old one hanging around?
RTD has stated he was the last actor to audition and someone else pretty much had the part until he came in.
Quote from: Kelvin on May 08, 2022, 04:26:30 PMHad hoped they'd go with a big name to draw in audiences that have drifted away, make it feel more like a big relaunch after the show's pop culture decline. I trust RTD of course, and don't doubt this guy will be great. I just don't know if it really says "We're back!" like a bigger household name might.
I think RTD has probably considered that he could pull in a lot of fans from Sex Education who otherwise would just watch the mostly shit content that it spews out constantly.
Quote from: Ballad of Ballard Berkley on May 08, 2022, 02:48:25 PM(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FSPOUTTXMAE4T5t?format=jpg&name=small)
Benjamin Cook just tweeted this lovely pic from today's TV BAFTA shindig.
As a gentleman of 5'7" proportions, I approve the casting of a shortarse.
But seriously, I've never seen Bad Education, or any other of his roles, but I'm okay with the casting of someone unknown to me. Matt Smith was just that and I loved him from the start. Hopefully with some improved writing, the show will be once again a highlight of the week.
It's quite funny (and sad) how many people are heralding the arrival of "the first black Doctor", having already forgotten about Chibnall's Ruth Doctor. Poor Jo Martin.
Quote from: Deanjam on May 08, 2022, 05:24:43 PMAs a gentleman of 5'7" proportions, I approve the casting of a shortarse.
RTD is about 20 feet tall, so I don't think this photo is indicative of much.
Quote from: Mister Six on May 08, 2022, 05:30:16 PMRTD is about 20 feet tall, so I don't think this photo is indicative of much.
Don't shatter my illusions!
Quote from: Mister Six on May 08, 2022, 04:06:57 PMI'm guessing there was a threat of a leak and the Beeb had to scramble to release it. I'd have expected more bombast from RTD.
Yeah it has to be this, right? Which is a bummer as I'm sure there's a bit in The Writer's Tale where RTD is really unhappy after a big announcement (I have it in my head that it's Tennant leaving, but it may be something else) gets pre-empted because the BBC are forced to confirm it ahead of time. It's a shame if his new era has started with the same thing.
Exciting, a new era looms - still can't quite believe RTD will be running things again. Not heard of Ncuti before but I will dutifully watch a series of
Sex Education (it's been on the ever-expanding watchlist anyway).
Quote from: Mister Six on May 08, 2022, 05:30:16 PMIt's quite funny (and sad) how many people are heralding the arrival of "the first black Doctor", having already forgotten about Chibnall's Ruth Doctor. Poor Jo Martin.
Moffat originally intended the Doctor Moon of
Silence in the Library to be a secret future Doctor (the 45th, in fact, having put himself into the Library world to keep dead River company).
RTD has said that whenever he watches that episode, he considers it to be true.
Quote from: Deanjam on May 08, 2022, 05:36:35 PMDon't shatter my illusions!
Apparently, according to Google, Gatwa is 5 foot 8 or 9. So he's not that much taller than you. And as
Mister Six says, RTD is an absolute giant of a man.
Ncuti Gatwa was born in 1992, which means that when Matt Smith became the Doctor in 2010, Ncuti Gatwa was the actual youngest actor to take on the part after all.
which makes you think
Quote from: BritishHobo on May 08, 2022, 05:39:01 PMYeah it has to be this, right? Which is a bummer as I'm sure there's a bit in The Writer's Tale where RTD is really unhappy after a big announcement (I have it in my head that it's Tennant leaving, but it may be something else) gets pre-empted because the BBC are forced to confirm it ahead of time. It's a shame if his new era has started with the same thing.
Found it, from when The Sun reported that RTD's Who would be finishing in 2008:
Quote from: RTDThe BBC is powerless with the press. No one can control the papers, they'll print what they want, and we need them, so threatening to withhold or punish simply doesn't work. We'll just go crawling back, cap in hand. But the central problem is that the BBC is a public service broadcaster, funded by the public, so we are Not Allowed To Lie - and we end up craven and apologetic. That's why the leak about Christopher Eccleston leaving could not be plugged. Once asked by The Mirror, Jane Tranter could not deny it. Even though it ruined the surprise cliffhanger to Series One. How incredible would it have been to keep the Ninth Doctor's regeneration a surprise? But we had to be scrupulously honest. It's all still the consequences of the Hutton Inquiry. But Doctor Who is hardly Hutton! This is fiction! I don't give a damn! I'll lie all I like if it safeguards the stories that we're telling. They can't stop me. But there's little point while Peter Fincham has to tell the truth. Madness.
Quote from: Kelvin on May 08, 2022, 04:26:30 PMHad hoped they'd go with a big name to draw in audiences that have drifted away, make it feel more like a big relaunch after the show's pop culture decline. I trust RTD of course, and don't doubt this guy will be great. I just don't know if it really says "We're back!" like a bigger household name might.
I don't think having a big name says "we're back!" so much as "this big name that you already know is great - well they're
great!!"
Casting a lesser known actor right now does the right thing, in my view - it focuses attention on the show rather than the aura of an already known actor. Which isn't to say it's not a great idea to cast someone like Chris Eccleston or Peter Capaldi when the time is right - I just think this particular "refresh" isn't the right time.
This all said, I might change my mind in a few days. Just thinking out loud really.
Quote from: Malcy on May 08, 2022, 04:37:00 PMRTD has stated he was the last actor to audition and someone else pretty much had the part until he came in.
Yeah, I came here to wonder out loud how many years it'll be before we find out who that was.
Quote from: Malcy on May 08, 2022, 04:37:00 PMI think RTD has probably considered that he could pull in a lot of fans from Sex Education who otherwise would just watch the mostly shit content that it spews out constantly.
Yup, I've never heard of the bloke before, but according to the Beeb article (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61371123) that the above quote came from:
QuoteNcuti Gatwa is a very shrewd choice for the role. He's incredibly popular with viewers in their late teens and 20s, thanks to Sex Education on Netflix. He has more than 2.5 million Instagram followers, and that's likely to shoot up even further after today's announcement.
Doctor Who, like so many programmes, is eager to win back some of those younger viewers, so the sheer interest from someone like him being involved is going to help with that.
And yeah, agree it was probably a leak they got bounced into announcing.
Quote from: Ambient Sheep on May 08, 2022, 06:03:24 PMYeah, I came here to wonder out loud how many years it'll be before we find out who that was.
They might yet end up as the 15th Doctor, if they haven't already been flung into the stratosphere before then.
Interesting to read in The Writer's Tale RTD's thoughts on why the show needed a new production team in 2009:
Quote from: RTDThe show, by 2009, will simply need a rest. We need to starve people a bit. We're producing 14 movie-sized episodes a year, which are then repeated ad infinitum, and ratings are bound to decline, even just a little.
Doctor Who is a phenomenon right now, but nothing stays a phenomenon. Not without careful management. People need to be begging for new Doctor Who,
instead of just expecting it. That's fine for kids, too. They can wait a few years between Harry Potter books and Star Wars films. If anything, the wait increases the legend.
...
But Doctor Who can run and run. Definitely. If it's managed this carefully. One day, of course, something will go wrong by accident, and people will look elsewhere, and some mean BBC controller will take it off air...but only for it to come back blazing a few years later. That, now, is the definition of Doctor Who. It's the show that comes back. To the extent that we're building this Glorious Return into the 2010 schedules ourselves. It's not quite like any other show - which has always been Doctor Who's outstanding feature, don't you think?
Funny to note he namechecks two franchises which have also suffered from careless management.
Ta for sharing those RTD quotes, British Hobo, very interesting. When he wrote, "One day, of course, something will go wrong by accident", he obviously had no idea that the actual fucking showrunner would be the person responsible for almost killing Doctor Who.
I know we've said this before, but RTD must be utterly dismayed by Chibnall's negative impact on The Show. He's a diplomatic pro, a nice man, so he'd never actually say that publicly, but you can absolutely guarantee that he's been following its decline with a very heavy heart.
Quote from: Kelvin on May 08, 2022, 04:26:30 PMHad hoped they'd go with a big name to draw in audiences that have drifted away, make it feel more like a big relaunch after the show's pop culture decline. I trust RTD of course, and don't doubt this guy will be great. I just don't know if it really says "We're back!" like a bigger household name might.
I tend to lean completely the opposite, it would've been very easy to stunt-cast a big name for the relaunched show but I think that could've been the wrong way to go. With a newish, relatively unknown actor there's less baggage and preconceptions about how they might play the part, and plus two of the "unknowns" who've taken the role since 2005 have arguably ended up the most popular Doctors so I can see the logic in going that way again.
Quote from: Ballad of Ballard Berkley on May 08, 2022, 06:46:45 PMTa for sharing those RTD quotes, British Hobo, very interesting. When he wrote, "One day, of course, something will go wrong by accident", he obviously had no idea that the actual fucking showrunner would be the person responsible for almost killing Doctor Who.
I know we've said this before, but RTD must be utterly dismayed by Chibnall's negative impact on The Show. He's a diplomatic pro, a nice man, so he'd never actually say that publicly, but you can absolutely guarantee that he's been following its decline with a very heavy heart.
What do you suppose he'd be most aggrieved by?
RTD allowed Chibnall to showrun Torchwood series 1 and 2. So he must believe that he has
some talent. So what was the cut-off, I wonder.
Quote from: Ballad of Ballard Berkley on May 08, 2022, 06:46:45 PMTa for sharing those RTD quotes, British Hobo, very interesting. When he wrote, "One day, of course, something will go wrong by accident", he obviously had no idea that the actual fucking showrunner would be the person responsible for almost killing Doctor Who.
I know we've said this before, but RTD must be utterly dismayed by Chibnall's negative impact on The Show. He's a diplomatic pro, a nice man, so he'd never actually say that publicly, but you can absolutely guarantee that he's been following its decline with a very heavy heart.
Definitely. It'd be interesting to know his honest thoughts on taking the reins again. It doesn't feel like something he would have chosen to do if he didn't feel the show desperately needed a kickstart.
It's a bigger overhaul than simply returning as showrunner, of course, with his own production company stepping in to secure the show's ongoing future. So it feels like something that was inevitable at a certain point.
Quote from: Angst in my Pants on May 08, 2022, 02:56:21 PMAngry:
Careful use of camera angles as he shouts in order to convey height/authority. That's one way around it, I suppose.
Quote from: Angst in my Pants on May 08, 2022, 02:56:21 PMI think he's amazing, he was my favourite actor in Sex Education. Here's a range of clips, some spoilers within of course.
Funny:
Emotional:
Angry:
Thanks for that. A good selection there. I insist that he uses "Wash your hands, you dirty pig!" as his catchphrase for Who.
https://twitter.com/morganjeffery/status/1523259774988660736
(https://i.ibb.co/3Ngdp2s/image.png)
I'm glad I can't remember him from the two things I've seen him in. Was that way with Smith. Every Doctor reveal for me has been a big thing for me but for this I just went "eh".
No expectations going in which I like. Eccleston announcement I bounced around like a lunatic, think I probably injured myself when Piper was announced as companion.
Tennant was an odd one. Was fine with it but utterly disappointed that Eccleston was leaving.
Smith, "who the fuck is this? No no no"! Instantly impressed.
Capaldi, hammered beyond belief and shouted yeeeeeeessssss then noooooooo for not putting a bet on at the local bookies where I was living in Ireland at the time who had him at 50/1 that morning not really knowing what I was on about.
Jodie was a bit of a "well it was inevitable" had more of an issue with the justification of why that China etc were throwing around.
I just have nothing on this. It's not fatigue from Chibnall era or anything. It's just that since Moffat took over my general interest has dropped steadily. Who and Trek my favourite things and both are just so disappointing and unnecessarily so that I just struggle to care anymore and will take whatever's thrown out. Does that make sense?
Quote from: waste of chops on May 08, 2022, 08:25:10 PMhttps://twitter.com/morganjeffery/status/1523259774988660736
(https://i.ibb.co/3Ngdp2s/image.png)
Perfect. + many karma.
I have a feeling the reason for an understated announcement isn't actually to do with a possibility of a leak. I suspect the plan was to announce Ncuti Gatwa during tonight's BAFTAs (some insider tweeted about it when the teaser first landed, as quoted below):
https://twitter.com/tvukzone/status/1523260048192942082 (https://twitter.com/tvukzone/status/1523260048192942082)
QuoteAll eyes on the #BAFTATV Awards later...
... basically a repeat of David Tennant announcing his departure when accepting an NTA. RTD loves the publicity of such a move. But for that to work, Gatwa would have had to win the award he was nominated for. It's likely they asked the BAFTAs about it, found out he wasn't going to win, and changed their plans.
But yeah, I like the understated nature of it, and while I know nothing about Ghatwa as Sex Education didn't seem like my thing, I like this choice, as it says a lot about where RTD wants to take the show. It's an actor who nobody predicted, who isn't exactly a household name but has won acclaim for starring in a big and successful Netflix drama. And he doesn't come across as 'Doctorish' in the conventional cliched way.
Exactly the right approach - RTD and co are looking to take on large-scale dramas from the streaming competitors, and are not relying on nostalgic conceptions of what the show or its main role is. Which is all I hoped for.
Nothing to judge yet, and again I don't know any of Gatwa's work (Whittaker all over again, God I know nothing about popular TV), but I am happy and interested to see where this goes.
Well put, M-Corp.
Also just noticed this thread from Graham Kibble-White that may be of interest: https://twitter.com/grahamkw/status/1523269689220116480 (https://twitter.com/grahamkw/status/1523269689220116480)
QuoteHmm.. he hasn't actually been confirmed as the *14th* Doctor.
They say he's going to be playing the Doctor... but not the 14th Doctor...
What I'm trying to say is, I think there's going to be another Doctor in between him and Jodie Whittaker.
Certainly, the main statement from Doctor Who's website at no point mentions the number 14. The BBC News article does, but... well.
It's possible and it would cause a large storm of PR if Whittaker unexpectedly regenerated into, say, Tennant.
I was convinced Hugh Grant would be a stunt Doctor before the proper next Doctor - could still happen?
Could be that they just aren't confirming that he comes after Whittaker on screen. Leave a gap like when it came back in 2005 where there possibly could be other incarnations.
Quote from: BritishHobo on May 08, 2022, 11:38:49 PMI was convinced Hugh Grant would be a stunt Doctor before the proper next Doctor - could still happen?
Would an intermediary Wanking Doctor be too much to ask for at this late hour? Please RTD be reading this
Quote from: M-CORP on May 08, 2022, 09:23:21 PMCertainly, the main statement from Doctor Who's website at no point mentions the number 14. The BBC News article does, but... well.
Come on, there's absolutely no significance to that. If I were writing that article I'd keep it clean and simple too, given the recent fuckery. You generally want to avoid things like 'Grand Theft Auto V, the eleventh game in the popular series'.
We'd have to call him 'maybe #16 of unknown amount'.
If you want to refresh the show and help people forget how many box sets they haven't seen, you leave out exactly that kind of detail.
It's May 2022, and the 60th Anniversary isn't until November 2023. This far ahead of the 50th, Moffat was still worrying he might have an anniversary episode with only Clara in it. The David Tennant speculations were happening before the 14th Doctor was cast, and if they have their origins anywhere close to RTD himself, I'd hope it's only because he was throwing around loads of mad ideas at that time. Hardly anything will be set in stone this early.
Typical, I go away for a day and they announce the new Doctor Who. Had the news on in the car and no mention of it. Returned home to be asked by daughter "What do you think of the new Doctor Who?!" Of course I sanctimoniously replied "Whatever rumours you may have heard they're not actualy going to make an official announcement until the 14th..."
I think it's a great choice. Of all the names that were touted around the one I wanted most was Omari Douglas, so this is very much in the same ballpark. Haven't seen him in anything other than watching a few clips yesterday but I have huge expectations because RTD auditioned him and said he was fantastic, what better guarantee of quality could one want?
Excited. Doctor Who now officially back on the rails.
Quote from: Rev+ on May 09, 2022, 01:33:16 AMCome on, there's absolutely no significance to that. If I were writing that article I'd keep it clean and simple too, given the recent fuckery. You generally want to avoid things like 'Grand Theft Auto V, the eleventh game in the popular series'.
I went back through the news on the Who website and they very prominently specified Capaldi and Whittaker as the Twelfth and Thirteenth. It very much seems by design not to describe him as the Fourteenth.
Ncuti Gatwa: BBC names actor as next Doctor Who star (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61371123)
QuoteActor Ncuti Gatwa will take over from Jodie Whittaker as the star of Doctor Who, the BBC has announced.
The 29-year-old will become the 14th Time Lord on the popular science fiction show, and the first person of colour to play the lead role
Good to see Rwanda giving us something back, anyway.
Except Peter Davison's dad was from Guyana so I think he qualifies really
I was just about to say that. No I was, honest.
I see his Wiki page is describing him as "the first black actor to play a primary incarnation of the character". Quite like the phrarse 'primary incarnation', it's a bit ponderous but it's as succinct a way as any of referring to the fourteen proper actual Doctors.
When I read that he had starred in Sex Education, which I erroneously believed was a US series, I panicked - surely not... American?
I went to his Wikipedia and read 'Rwanda' and 'Scotland' and immediately relaxed. Racist? Perhaps. I'll accept any Doctor east of the 19th meridian west (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/19th_meridian_west). Eric Roberts was enough of a foray into the world of American Time Lords.
Quote from: Norton Canes on May 09, 2022, 09:20:11 AMOf all the names that were touted around the one I wanted most was Omari Douglas, so this is very much in the same ballpark.
Very similar names
Quote from: JamesTC on May 09, 2022, 09:22:20 AMI went back through the news on the Who website and they very prominently specified Capaldi and Whittaker as the Twelfth and Thirteenth. It very much seems by design not to describe him as the Fourteenth.
They didn't immediately commit to Eccleston being "the ninth" either.
What's especially irritating about the Tennant rumour is if it turns out to be true, people clutching at straws get to say "I told you so". However it pans out, their labelling or not of Gatwa as "the fourteenth" right now will not be a part of it.
Still cannot believe for one second RTD will dilute the impact of the new Doctor by bringing one back from four regens ago.
Here is what I mean:
(https://i.imgur.com/etZNkHG.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/nH2zyHN.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/n0WTkYW.png)
Within the body of the articles they all talk about how they are the twelfth/thirteenth Doctor pretty prominently, whereas for Gatwa it is almost pointedly skirted around.
Then again, the past was a different time:
(https://i.imgur.com/x46u4Lm.png)
Quote from: Norton Canes on May 09, 2022, 12:24:34 PMStill cannot believe for one second RTD will dilute the impact of the new Doctor by bringing one back from four regens ago.
Same. Again, think of how far away we were from the 60th when the Tennant rumours started, and how far Moffat was with his draft for the 50th at the same point.
Quote from: Norton Canes on May 09, 2022, 09:20:11 AMI think it's a great choice. Of all the names that were touted around the one I wanted most was Omari Douglas, so this is very much in the same ballpark. Haven't seen him in anything other than watching a few clips yesterday but I have huge expectations because RTD auditioned him and said he was fantastic, what better guarantee of quality could one want?
Yes, it's a bit like when fans wanted Martin Jarvis as the 5th Doctor and got another blond sitcom lead.
I think if it happens, it will be BBC execs forcing him to do it and RTD thinking it could make a fun anniversary story to make the best of it.
Having watched Sex Education, where Gatwa very convincingly plays a secondary student, my initial thought was that he's way too young. But it only took me a moment to realize he's about the same age Matt Smith was when he took the role, and the more I think about it he's absolutely perfect. Between his performance and RTD's writing, the Doctor might actually become fun again.
On a gut level, I trust RTD's ability to read the room, take the temperature, and give the show what it needs more than other showrunners.
Quote from: JamesTC on May 09, 2022, 12:45:36 PMI think if it happens, it will be BBC execs forcing him to do it and RTD thinking it could make a fun anniversary story to make the best of it.
I think it could feasibly work, and that RTD could have come up with it, rather than BBC execs. I've no idea how much control the BBC can have on the show with Bad Wolf now sharing it. I doubt they'd start RTD's new tenure off by ordering him to use one of their shittiest ideas. As far as they're concerned it's his show and its success has always been due to him.
But if it happens it'll be because a 60th anniversary could be a tricky place for a new incarnation to start, and some familiar faces has been the precedent for previous decade celebrations.
It's just hard to imagine how having Tennant as the 14th Doctor would work as a fresh reboot scenario. It's one thing having a couple of unrelated adventures with the 10th and 11th Doctors for the 60th anniversary before we get back to "meanwhile, after regenerating" with the 14th; quite another to have Tennant be the 14th Doctor. It just ties everything up in backstory gubbins before anyone has a chance to breathe. But the same could probably be said of any multi-Doctor story.
Honestly, what would an ideal 60th anniversary story be, considering the show's critical need to look forwards now, rather than backwards?
Quote from: Replies From View on May 09, 2022, 01:03:58 PMHonestly, what would an ideal 60th anniversary story be, considering the show's critical need to look forwards now, rather than backwards?
The new Doctor goes back into his own history to collect a piece of each prior Doctor's outfit, and it's from these items that his own "current" costume is formed. Just an idea, but if you see this Russell, call me.
Whose underpants would he have to wear every day without ever washing them
Hartnell.
Filming starts in Cardiff next week apparently, so I'm keeping my fucking eyes out. If anyone knows any sites or Twitter accounts that are quick to report on filming let me know. I missed seeing John Bishop stand near the TARDIS in a park over the road once, and I will not make the same mistake again.
Quote from: Ninth DoctorRicky, let me tell you something about the human race. You put a mysterious blue box slap-bang in the middle of town, what do they do? Walk past it.
I would rather they ignored the anniversary year altogether and just focussed on delivering great stories. And if they want to do a multi-Doctor story, why not slam it in the middle of a season as a proper surprise?
As an anniversary, '60th' doesn't really mean anything to me other than 'oh, it's been ten years since the 50th'. Who cares about 60? It's not a special number, like 50 or 100. It's just the half-centenary-and-a-bit. Might as well have celebrated the 55th.
Awkward timing with a production handover + new Doctor, too, but I trust that RTD will make good use of it to return with a bang. I hope that Ncuti's first story isn't diluted by the presence of old faces. I liked Smith's cameo in Deep Breath, especially as it was quite novel, and I think it's the sort of thing a time traveller would do to reassure a friend, but I understand the criticism of it. And that was only 30 seconds.
I also think, quite separately, that multi-Doctor stories should be rested for another decade. I agree with Capaldi about diminishing returns and introspection - Twice Upon a Time, which I do love, should've been the last one for a long while. We barely have a sense of Jodie's Doctor even now, and halfway through her second series there was an inherently more thrilling new mystery Doctor on the scene.
How about an expanded adaptation of Terrance Dicks's start of the Eighth Doctor books, now called The Fourteen Doctors. The new one could go back in time and be awkwardly pasted into far-too-long sections of every past Doctor's adventures, with absolutely no time spent on defining his character. There he is, in the TV Movie, clearing the road for Eight to motorbike through; see as he and Nine have a brief side-adventure involving an otherwise unseen Silurian somewhere amidst the plot of The End of the World; be in awe as he helps Eleven search for Clara; gasp in amazement as he and Twelve stop to have a chat midway through Heaven Sent; breathe a sigh of relief as he plays a prank on Thirteen, making her believe she is The Timeless Child.
How about an episode where some slitheen are getting changed into their human skins, and the sixth Doctor can't fit into his so he's making his whole class late after their trip to the swimming pool.
Red herrings:
https://www.radiotimes.com/tv/sci-fi/russell-t-davies-doctor-who-red-herrings-newsupdate/
Edit: I just speculatively suggested the exact thing in the RT story. I wonder if it was in part a way to see who in the production team might leak? Let
these people think it'll be Olly Alexander, let
these people think it'll be Tennant Redux...
Quote from: JamesTC on May 09, 2022, 12:45:36 PMI think if it happens, it will be BBC execs forcing him to do it and RTD thinking it could make a fun anniversary story to make the best of it.
I don't think the BBC get a say in the show any more, do they? I mean, presumably they can veto what Bad Wolf comes up with, but I don't think they're supposed to be making creative demands anymore.
Well, the BBC still own it. They'll still be able to say what they want from it - the kind of time slot and audience they should be aiming for, requirements for any specials, co-productions, branding... it's no different to when BBC Studios were producing it for BBC Wales. Separate company, appointed to do the job until the contract runs out, but under the ultimate orders of BBC Wales.
Part of the deal was that Bad Wolf would have creative control, though, wasn't it?
And there's a difference between setting limits on the overall tone and defining the target audience, and dictating the stories that Davies has to do. I don't think they did that even when BBC Wales was completely running the show, did they?
Quote from: Thomas on May 09, 2022, 02:05:45 PMI also think, quite separately, that multi-Doctor stories should be rested for another decade. I agree with Capaldi about diminishing returns and introspection - Twice Upon a Time, which I do love, should've been the last one for a long while. We barely have a sense of Jodie's Doctor even now, and halfway through her second series there was an inherently more thrilling new mystery Doctor on the scene.
Yeah, on reflection I agree with this. Wait till the 75th anniversary, so we can all wince as a now saggy and fat Tennant, Smith and Whittaker waddle about alongside a holo-resurrected Peter Capaldi.
I'd be ready for a new multi-Doctor story if Twice Upon A Time had been the most recent one. The Timeless Child introspection is what has killed that appetite.
The only proper excuse for a multi-Doctor story would be to get McGann more screen time.
Russell's never been huge on long continuity things though, has he? There was more footage of past Doctors in the first episode of series five than the first four series combined. I really think he'll just be in it for straight up new Who stories without any baggage.
Aye. The only time RTD really did anything with the previous Doctors in his first run was the sketchbook in Human Nature, and having Moffat do Time Crash, which was more a sketch than a "true" episode (though written and played as a "true" thing. Thing.)
Quote from: Replies From View on May 09, 2022, 04:42:09 PMI'd be ready for a new multi-Doctor story if Twice Upon A Time had been the most recent one. The Timeless Child introspection is what has killed that appetite.
There were a
lot of Doctor crossovers in the first 12 seasons though, one way or another: Time Crash, Name of The Doctor, Day of The Doctor, Night of the Doctor (okay, technically one Doctor in a regeneration, but it was the big return of Paul McGann), Deep Breath, Twice Upon a Time and The Timeless Child. Plus the Doctor meeting old companions Sarah Jane Smith and Jo Grant (the latter only in The Sarah Jane Adventures), and
Trailer spoilers for Chibnall's finale
being soon to see Ace and Tegan again.
Just having nothing but new characters and adventures until the 75th anniversary sounds like quite a good idea, really.
I batch all the 50th anniversary stuff together. They didn't fatigue me coming as part of one celebration.
If it had been Time Crash, the 50th anniversary stories, Twice Upon A Time and then nothing until the 60th it would have all been fine.
I don't count Deep Breath as a multi-Doctor story, either. Otherwise all regenerations would be multi-Doctor stories because they feature a scene from more than one of the actors.
Deep Breath treads into it for me because it's not a regeneration story, it's Capaldi's debut, but look - here's Smith again!
For me, at least, there isn't quite as much thrill in seeing two different Doctors together any more, or having one "era" intrude on another, because we've seen so many variations on that so frequently. Each one (bar the Timeless Child) has been justified and welcome in its own way, but it feels like blurring the distinctions between eras is now the norm for the show, rather than a special event, and that will be exacerbated if we have two consecutive anniversary specials (Chibnall's and Davies's) with old Doctors or companions involved (or a spin-off miniseries about Tennant or whatever else has been suggested).
I'm hoping RTD will see the BBC centenary special as a way to get out of doing a crossover for the 60th, and will let Gatwa fully enjoy the limelight while finding some other, more subtle way to pay tribute to the shows history.
I know, "Davies" and "subtle" don't usually go together, but hope springs eternal...
Half these Doctors will be dead soon, have them back one per series for all I care. And recast the dead ones, I really don't think it matters. People treat this kind of stuff like its sacred, but its really not; lean into the show's history and the possibilities of time-travel.
Quote from: George White on May 09, 2022, 12:44:53 PMYes, it's a bit like when fans wanted Martin Jarvis as the 5th Doctor and got another blond sitcom lead
To quote the Doctor in Pyramids Of Mars: "Don't be obtuse, man!" Yes they're both people of colour but also actors who've recently made a name for themselves playing flambouyant gay characters, so they have a bit more in common.
Although Ncuti Gatwa is currently blond, so you may have a point.
Would he be the first Doctor to have a tache (if he keeps it which I hope he does)?
Quote from: rilk on May 09, 2022, 07:29:10 PMWould he be the first Doctor to have a tache (if he keeps it which I hope he does)?
If Philip Hinchcliffe in Victorian cosplay is canon now, then so is the Cushing.
(https://i.ibb.co/tYVxtYR/Screenshot-2022-05-09-at-19-36-59-peter-cushing-doctor-who-Google-Search.png)
He's rocking a bit of a Johnson vibe with that 'tache (the character from Peep Show, not the PM), and for that reason alone I hope he keeps it.
He'll be the Paterson Joseph we've all been waiting for.
Quote from: rilk on May 09, 2022, 07:29:10 PMWould he be the first Doctor to have a tache (if he keeps it which I hope he does)?
If they're filming now - or very soon - then dollars to doughnuts this IS the Doctor's look, moustache and all.
Sylv wishes Ncuti all the best before take off.
https://twitter.com/4sylvestermccoy/status/1523719205509492737
Quote from: Huxleys Babkins on May 09, 2022, 08:48:14 PMSylv wishes Ncuti all the best before take off.
https://twitter.com/4sylvestermccoy/status/1523719205509492737
The positioning of that ceiling fan makes him look like Terry Fuckwitt.
Quote from: purlieu on May 09, 2022, 04:43:28 PMThe only proper excuse for a multi-Doctor story would be to get McGann more screen time.
Russell's never been huge on long continuity things though, has he? There was more footage of past Doctors in the first episode of series five than the first four series combined.
He did write that story for The Sarah Jane Adventures where Jo Grant - or Jo Jones as she might have been by then - returned, that had quite a lot of brief old clips. There was also a set of flashbacks to all the then-previous Doctors in The Next Doctor.
All I remember in The Next Doctor was a series of drawings of them which were only seen briefly, were there actual clips?
Yeah, I think the Cyber-whatever-it-was that implanted The Doctor's memories in Jackson's head displayed some footage from the old show and TV movie in a sort of glowy blue hologram form. Something like that.
Quote from: purlieu on May 09, 2022, 04:43:28 PMRussell's never been huge on long continuity things though, has he?
I don't know that RTD was necessarily against including stuff from the old show, I think it was more that he was deliberately treading carefully in order to not scare off newcomers. You can see a gradual shift to more traditional Who as the show moves on: first story set away from Earth (or its orbit) and reappearance of Sarah Jane and K-9 in S2, first mention of Gallifrey and first non-urban Earth stories in S3, the slow reintroduction of the Cybes, The Master, Davros, Sontarans, even the Macra(!) across the whole series...
By the time Smith and Moffat were in place it was a huge success and they could really let the brakes off. Sadly, I imagine RTD will want to get back to Eccles-esque basics for Gatwa, to try to win over new audiences and those who drifted away from Chibnall's incoherent fanwank (and some of Moffat's fanwank, let's face it).
One thing that I could imagine being a source of frustration for any incoming showrunner is that Gallifrey is fucked again and the Doctor is once more the last of the Time Lords - but for much crapper, and far less emotionally weighted, reasons than the first time round.
The Timeless Child backstory can be ignored - it was only ever corroborated by the Master and the nonsensical Tecteun anyway - but unfortunately Gallifrey's present state is more concrete, and to ignore it would be strange. The Doctor has always cared about Gallifrey; its absence or presence has always (except during Chibnall's run) impacted on their psychology and motivations.
Would be weird if the Doctor suddenly didn't give a shit about his homeworld, and the fact that his Day of the Doctor heroics - a redemptive culmination of RTD's original arc - have recently been totally undone. However, it would also be rubbish if the show dedicated another story to restoring Gallifrey again.
Brokenly rubbish!
Quote from: Thomas on May 09, 2022, 10:21:00 PMThe Timeless Child backstory can be ignored - it was only ever corroborated by the Master and the nonsensical Tecteun anyway - but unfortunately Gallifrey's present state is more concrete, and to ignore it would be strange. The Doctor has always cared about Gallifrey; its absence or presence has always (except during Chibnall's run) impacted on their psychology and motivations.
Maybe Chibnall will restore Gallifrey before he goes. And undo almost all humans in the galaxy being killed by Cybercunt and his mates. And fix the Flux obliterating swathes of the universe. And probably some other atrocities that The Doctor has let happen and Chibnall never saw fit to address...
Quote from: Thomas on May 09, 2022, 10:21:00 PMOne thing that I could imagine being a source of frustration for any incoming showrunner is that Gallifrey is fucked again and the Doctor is once more the last of the Time Lords - but for much crapper, and far less emotionally weighted, reasons than the first time round.
The Timeless Child backstory can be ignored - it was only ever corroborated by the Master and the nonsensical Tecteun anyway - but unfortunately Gallifrey's present state is more concrete, and to ignore it would be strange. The Doctor has always cared about Gallifrey; its absence or presence has always (except during Chibnall's run) impacted on their psychology and motivations.
Would be weird if the Doctor suddenly didn't give a shit about his homeworld, and the fact that his Day of the Doctor heroics - a redemptive culmination of RTD's original arc - have recently been totally undone. However, it would also be rubbish if the show dedicated another story to restoring Gallifrey again.
Brokenly rubbish!
All good points. And interesting. I suspect RTD will perform some kind of reset - a repositioning of Gallifrey as he wants it to be, without really addressing any of the backstory.
There's no reason to acknowledge the state that Chibnall has left the show in. Maybe this is why leaving Whittaker's regeneration open-ended could be a good idea - it allows an unspecified amount of time to have passed between Chibnall and RTD, so the latter can do what he wants to do.
Maybe a version of Moffat's series 5 cracks could account for things we don't like during Chibnall's tenure. Or RTD could set a story in the Matrix a few series from now, in which it becomes apparent that it's possible for the Doctor to experience falsified versions of events (without actually boring us with specifics about Chibnall's time). Dunno. But he should leave it all alone for now.
First episode in I would just have some weird space McGuffin reset the entire timeline. Have the Doctor say "Everything happened, but nothing is the same as before. Let's find out what's out there!" And begin your completely reset space/time adventures of a weird alien and his human (presumably) friends.
I had forgotten how Chibnall had wrecked Gallifrey again for no reason. Why would any showrunner with only three series to play around, and therefore no long-term plans, do anything like that so soon after the emotional arc culminating in The Day of the Doctor? "I don't like Gallifrey and the Time Lords being around, so I'm going to do this because I want to force the next showrunner not to have them," seems to have been his entire motivation. It's staggering in both its entitlement and its ineptitude, for so many reasons.
For a brief moment I wondered whether RTD might have asked him to get rid of Gallifrey again so that he'd be inheriting a version of the show without Gallifrey, and Chibnall just fucked up the execution of it. But apparently Chibnall had no idea RTD would be returning until about a day before we all knew, so we can't even give him that benefit of the doubt.
Quote from: Deanjam on May 09, 2022, 10:44:36 PMFirst episode in I would just have some weird space McGuffin reset the entire timeline. Have the Doctor say "Everything happened, but nothing is the same as before. Let's find out what's out there!" And begin your completely reset space/time adventures of a weird alien and his human (presumably) friends.
Or just have the reset already sufficiently in the past that it doesn't require mentioning.
Yeah, just a big time gap between Jodie and Ncuti, a passing mention of him "putting things right/tidying up" before meeting his new companion, and Gallifrey is back and ready to be reintroduced a few series on, with details to be given in some Big Finish story I'll never have to listen to.
The Gallifrey High Council saw what was coming (they're fucking Time Lords after all) and dispatched the vast majority of their population (using those fancy time machines which are far bigger on the inside) and then rebuilt after the Master was defeated.
To be honest you could cover it in a couple of lines when the Doctor meets Romana. Then just steer clear of Gallifrey for the next five years or so as it's getting overused.
Quote from: Mister Six on May 09, 2022, 10:10:47 PMI don't know that RTD was necessarily against including stuff from the old show, I think it was more that he was deliberately treading carefully in order to not scare off newcomers.
Oh, yeah, definitely. I suppose I just think, compared to Moffat and Chiball, he was far less invested in tying in loads of elements from the past and more involved in creating a 'now' version of the show. He understands that it always works best when it's not trying to live up to its legacy and is free to simply be. I have a feeling he'll try and do something similar again.
That makes sense, and I agree. I think Moffat's frequently motivated by meta concerns: the little girl hiding behind the sofa in Silence in the Library; retcons as an actual threat in season 5; Let's Kill Hitler as a commentary on why Who should never deal with "real" recent history (and why it's not the same as Star Trek - I'm sure he was thinking of City on the Edge of Forever, an episode about not changing history lest you inadvertently cause the Nazis to win WWII, when he introduced the Enterprise-like Tesselecta crew); Clara testing what happens when a companion tries to become the protagonist; Capaldi initially being conceived as an inversion of established "Doctorly" tropes only to embrace his position as a "madman in a box"; all the little in-jokes like Clara's list of dates missing out the years that Who wasn't on, or the semi-reboot first episode of S10 being called "The Pilot".
Personally I love that kind of thing, but it can make the show feel a bit detached and up itself, and probably a bit less welcoming than Davies's more down-to-Earth and finger-on-the-pulse sensibilities.
Was away over the weekend and this sure came as a surprise
Totally neutral, never seen him before other than the 3 clips posted a couple of pages back. Excited as ever now that I know someone competent is in charge.
As for continuity it'll be interesting if this era ends in a "Doctor fails regeneration and dies... maybe" kind of cliffhanger and the new one just starts with the latest as if nothing ever happened. I have a feeling that's the way it'll go.
Quote from: Mister Six on May 08, 2022, 05:30:16 PMIt's quite funny (and sad) how many people are heralding the arrival of "the first black Doctor", having already forgotten about Chibnall's Ruth Doctor. Poor Jo Martin.
I'm mixed about this to be honest. I agree, but also like to think that RTD will just retcon all the Timeless Child bollocks, which unfortunately, would take Ruth out in the crossfire.
Quote from: Cloud on May 10, 2022, 02:04:15 AMI'm mixed about this to be honest. I agree, but also like to think that RTD will just retcon all the Timeless Child bollocks, which unfortunately, would take Ruth out in the crossfire.
Would say "what a waste of a perfectly good actor", but that applies to almost everyone in Chibnall's run. Ryan was about right for the material, I suppose.
Quote from: Replies From View on May 09, 2022, 10:53:12 PMI had forgotten how Chibnall had wrecked Gallifrey again for no reason. Why would any showrunner with only three series to play around, and therefore no long-term plans, do anything like that so soon after the emotional arc culminating in The Day of the Doctor? "I don't like Gallifrey and the Time Lords being around, so I'm going to do this because I want to force the next showrunner not to have them," seems to have been his entire motivation. It's staggering in both its entitlement and its ineptitude, for so many reasons.
For a brief moment I wondered whether RTD might have asked him to get rid of Gallifrey again so that he'd be inheriting a version of the show without Gallifrey, and Chibnall just fucked up the execution of it. But apparently Chibnall had no idea RTD would be returning until about a day before we all knew, so we can't even give him that benefit of the doubt.
I don't buy for one second that Chibnall was working knowing he only had three series. I'm absolutely convinced he and Whitaker have been cut short and the official line is just face saving PR.
Quote from: Huxleys Babkins on May 10, 2022, 05:43:44 AMI don't buy for one second that Chibnall was working knowing he only had three series. I'm absolutely convinced he and Whitaker have been cut short and the official line is just face saving PR.
It certainly feels like it when you take his more hubristic decisions into account.
I can believe Whittaker was due to leave after three series and a few specials, after all that's the norm for modern Doctors, and it's clear she would have had more episodes under her belt if covid hadn't necessitated a shrinkage of series 13.
But Chibnall, no. A showrunner doesn't just mix all the paint together and rip the paper up without expecting to have further years to tidy it all up. It's hard to know for sure, though - it could just be evidence of his immense incompetence.
Quote from: Mister Six on May 10, 2022, 02:31:56 AMWould say "what a waste of a perfectly good actor", but that applies to almost everyone in Chibnall's run. Ryan was about right for the material, I suppose.
Ruth Doctor wasn't performed very well; I don't know what everyone is talking about. Am I the only one who saw someone standing around reading the lines out really flatly?
I'm not saying that's her fault - the lines were terrible and you'd need to be an incredible standard of actor to rise above them. I've never seen her in anything else so maybe people are transferring their knowledge of her other acting abilities onto the Ruth Doctor.
But to me she was just standing around saying her lines, like a stoic Blue Peter presenter. And it's a testament to the abject shitness of Chibnall's Who that she has stood out to people as one of its highlights. I don't wish to be unkind to her but being an incarnation of the Doctor surely requires a greater acting range than we saw on screen.
I'm a bit bored of the Doctor being the last of his race and all that, it's (I suppose literally) a dead end. I'd like a gear change where at least a few Time Lords are out there now and the Doctor does bump into them every now and then like the Highlander bumping into other Immortals but without having to cut their heads off. Or the last Jedi scattered across the universe or summat, I don't know. I'd just like to see the Doctor in a bit of a sulk because he's not quite so special anymore, with the other Time Lords taking the piss out of him in front of his companions for failing all the Gallifreyan exams and not being able to pilot his TARDIS properly and making up rubbish like 'Venusian Akaido'.
I can barely remember what Chibnall did with Gallifrey or what the Timeless Child stuff was about other than he really fucked it up for the next person. My worry is he went to see No Way Home and the last episode will be some sort of multiverse Doctor story where over the space of one hour Chibs fucks it up for every possible version of the character across every dimension and a few more we didn't know about.
Quote from: Replies From View on May 09, 2022, 10:53:12 PMI had forgotten how Chibnall had wrecked Gallifrey again for no reason. Why would any showrunner with only three series to play around, and therefore no long-term plans, do anything like that so soon after the emotional arc culminating in The Day of the Doctor?
I complained before that S12 is a mash-up of two big arcs that don't necessarily have anything to do with each other (the Doctor has loads of pre-Hartnell regenerations and the Doctor worked for a shady Gallifreyan CIA totally against character) but it's actually three isn't it. There's no reason the Master has to destroy Gallifrey again as part of that either. In fact if you were going to write a story where it was revealed the Doctor had been majorly lied to by the Time Lords her entire life wouldn't you, you know... have her face off against some Time Lords? So if Chibnall doesn't bring back Gallifrey and get that conversation out of the way in his last episode it'll be massively weird for the next showrunner not to deal with it. Great.
Alternatively, the unspoken, offscreen mechanism that repaired the entire universe after Flux also restored Gallifrey.
The best thing would be if someone asks the Doctor about his origins in an early RTD2 episode, and he says "I don't like to talk about it. To be honest, it's all a bit of a mess." And then it's never mentioned again.
Quote from: olliebean on May 10, 2022, 10:32:05 AMThe best thing would be if someone asks the Doctor about his origins in an early RTD2 episode, and he says "I don't like to talk about it. To be honest, it's all a bit of a mess." And then it's never mentioned again.
Imagine if that's how the ninth Doctor had introduced himself to Rose instead of the hand-holding "forget me" scene.
Quote from: The Roofdog on May 10, 2022, 09:50:08 AMI complained before that S12 is a mash-up of two big arcs that don't necessarily have anything to do with each other (the Doctor has loads of pre-Hartnell regenerations and the Doctor worked for a shady Gallifreyan CIA totally against character) but it's actually three isn't it. There's no reason the Master has to destroy Gallifrey again as part of that either. In fact if you were going to write a story where it was revealed the Doctor had been majorly lied to by the Time Lords her entire life wouldn't you, you know... have her face off against some Time Lords? So if Chibnall doesn't bring back Gallifrey and get that conversation out of the way in his last episode it'll be massively weird for the next showrunner not to deal with it. Great.
The reason for destroying Gallifrey is so contrived and shoehorned that it feels like the outcome was deeply necessary, and yes Chibnall couldn't quite get the pieces together to reach it organically, but at least the end was reached, justifying the means.
The Master was furious to learn that the Doctor is the Timeless Child, and in a rage destroyed Gallifrey - there, done it! Phew!!
"No, that justification doesn't make sense."
But at least Gallifrey has been destroyed! That's the main thing!!
Quote from: Mister Six on May 10, 2022, 01:10:52 AMPersonally I love that kind of thing, but it can make the show feel a bit detached and up itself, and probably a bit less welcoming than Davies's more down-to-Earth and finger-on-the-pulse sensibilities.
Yeah, I'm kind of the same, which is partially why I'm doing all the books and stuff, but after a while it's nice just to have some straight-forward Who. Capaldi's first couple of series felt like Moffat was getting a touch too self-indulgent even for me - is it series 9 that starts with Missy doing a flashback story in which people dressed as every past Doctor are glimpsed briefly or something? - and I do wonder if that sort of thing played into the falling viewing figures as much as Capaldi's characterisation.
Obviously Chibnall's mess is a sign that there really needs to be a change. I admired his decision to make his first series generally very low-stakes, and that was utterly demolished by everything that happened afterwards. Regardless of how (un)successful all the Timeless Child stuff was, the truth is your average viewer almost certainly doesn't care about the Doctor's origins. It's a show that's been around for 60 years and most people haven't watched most of it, so it's going to be almost soap opera-like for most people: they want to watch and enjoy what's happening now rather than go raking up the past. Doing it in Lungbarrow is fine, because the books are aimed at hardcore fans.
Quote from: Jack Shaftoe on May 10, 2022, 09:40:51 AMI'm a bit bored of the Doctor being the last of his race and all that, it's (I suppose literally) a dead end.
Honestly, I've always felt like this. I know Gallifrey is usually crap, but I think The Last of the Time Lords is also a bit crap. I like the Doctor just being a wanderer, someone who helps because they have a moral compass and passion for fairness, not a superhero with a tragic past. The only reason I can think of for the Master to destroy Gallifrey and the Time Lords is so the Doctor can't just go to them and go "er, guys, is this Timeless Child stuff actually true, or is he having me on?"
I have no idea if Chibnall will wrap the whole thing up - I'm sure he'll
try to in some way - but hopefully there'll be at least something in there that will act as, or allow for, a reset button. Ultimately it won't matter too much, as long as RTD's stuff is good then it'll be fun to watch, but having the whole Timeless Child mythology stuff hanging over the show just leaves a bad taste that it'd be really nice to get rid of.
Speculation is plunging now about who the companion could be.
https://www.radiotimes.com/tv/sci-fi/doctor-who-nicola-coughlan-companion-newsupdate/
QuoteBut Coughlan would clearly make a popular choice as a companion, with several Whovians voicing their approval at the suggestion on social media.
Several people would like her to be companion! Cor.
60 years of almost exclusively casting relative unknowns as companions but, sure, it'll be the big star of that thing everyone likes. Yup, definitely.
I was happy with the Time Lords being destroyed due to the Doctor's actions, the redemption arc was ok, and Moffat left it that they're a bunch of pricks anyway so let's not go there again. All those things happened for overarching narrative reasons, rather than what we have now. I think the Deadly Assassin and the books have done anything interesting with them that could ever happen, plus some bits from RTD and Moffat that were more interesting for what they left to the imagination.
If I'm RTD I'm just going to ignore it.
Quote from: Huxleys Babkins on May 10, 2022, 01:48:23 PM60 years of almost exclusively casting relative unknowns as companions but, sure, it'll be the big star of that thing everyone likes. Yup, definitely.
RTDs choices have been Billy Piper, Catherine Tate and Kylie Minogue though - so he's got form.
The way Moffat left it was great. There was some ambiguity around where Gallifrey and the Time Lords now were - The Day of the Doctor had sealed them off somewhere vague, and Heaven Sent had shown the Doctor needing to endure an endless horrible process to access it.
By the end of Moffat's time there was no sense that the Time Lords were now just "around" in any bland sense, like they were in the Classic Era. He had created the best of both worlds, because the Time Lords weren't on the verge of continually appearing - they were essentially gone, locked away yet available for any storyline that contrived a need for them existing, whereupon they could be put back in their box. And, crucially, locked away in a manner that wouldn't require the Doctor to continue mourning and grieving them.
Chibnall's response: "this is too hard for me, best just kill them all off unambiguously since I don't like them. Should the Doctor now revert to mourning and grieving them? Too difficult for me, I'll leave it to my successor to gratefully receive my brilliant positioning of the playing pieces, just like I thoroughly made use of where Moffat left Gallifrey, the Master and everything else."
Quote from: Disinform on May 10, 2022, 02:53:22 PMRTDs choices have been Billy Piper, Catherine Tate and Kylie Minogue though - so he's got form.
Jenna Coleman had been in Emmerdale, Bonnie Langford was Bonnie Langford... oh and Bradley Walsh...
Quote from: pigamus on May 10, 2022, 03:06:50 PMJenna Coleman had been in Emmerdale, Bonnie Langford was Bonnie Langford... oh and Bradley Walsh...
Bradley Walsh and a Liverpudlian one of the same man.
And who can forget Mark Strickson and his key role as young Ebenezer in George C Scott's "A Christmas Carol"
Quote from: Disinform on May 10, 2022, 02:53:22 PMRTDs choices have been Billy Piper, Catherine Tate and Kylie Minogue though - so he's got form.
And he wanted to get JK Rowling at one point. Thank Christ that didn't work out, although it would have meant more material for the Glinner threads when RTD spoke out against transphobia at those awards last year.
Quote from: purlieu on May 10, 2022, 11:26:15 AMis it series 9 that starts with Missy doing a flashback story in which people dressed as every past Doctor are glimpsed briefly or something?
That sounds like the climax of series 7, with Clara glimpsing The Doctor's past, including extra dressed like McCoy etc dashing by her.
I think series 9's teaser climaxed with a kid on a minefield saying "I'm Davros," which confused the hell out of the non-hardcore group I was watching it with...
Quote from: Replies From View on May 10, 2022, 07:11:19 AMI don't wish to be unkind to her but being an incarnation of the Doctor surely requires a greater acting range than we saw on screen.
Well if we're talking range, the characters of Ruth and Ruth-Doctor were markedly different. But no, her like deliveries weren't flat - they were delivered with a cocky but steely attitude. That Doctor didn't get much to do, but she had plenty of presence, especially compared with Jodie's usual fretful delivery.
Quote from: McDead on May 10, 2022, 03:13:06 PMAnd who can forget Mark Strickson and his key role as young Ebenezer in George C Scott's "A Christmas Carol"
Sarah Sutton had been the lead in The Moon Stallion, dunno if that was a thing at the time
Quote from: pigamus on May 10, 2022, 03:06:50 PMJenna Coleman had been in Emmerdale, Bonnie Langford was Bonnie Langford... oh and Bradley Walsh...
Since we're including the one-offs, Michelle Ryan was well known for EastEnders and Merlin, and had been the star of NBC's Bionic Woman the year before they shot the episode.
Lindsay Duncan had won Tony and Olivier awards, had BAFTA noms and was known for GBH (the show, not the brutal crime) and Rome before she appeared in Waters of Mars.
Bernard Cribbins, of course...
And I'm sure there's a bit in The Writer's Tale where RTD is trying to get Judi Dench on board.
Still, I can't imagine whatserface wanting to give up the hugely popular international smash Bridgerton, which probably has another three seasons in it, to appear in Doctor Who for a year or two.
Quote from: Mister Six on May 10, 2022, 03:23:02 PMAnd he wanted to get JK Rowling at one point. Thank Christ that didn't work out, although it would have meant more material for the Glinner threads when RTD spoke out against transphobia at those awards last year.
Could have been good. Especially if there was a follow up episode with Jodie's Doctor, where Rowling tries to stop The Doctor from going to the toilet for an hour.
I think that might be better than a lot of what we had instead, to be fair.
But JK Rowling isn't an actor, it seems a bit odd
This JK stuff is a salutary reminder that not all of RTD's instincts are sound
Quote from: Mister Six on May 10, 2022, 03:23:02 PMThat sounds like the climax of series 7, with Clara glimpsing The Doctor's past, including extra dressed like McCoy etc dashing by her.
Correct, and it was justifiable for being part of the 50th anniversary set-up. It seemed to be a way of keeping somewhat happy those people who wanted the actual 50th special to be The Eleven Doctors.
Quote from: McDead on May 10, 2022, 03:49:06 PMThis JK stuff is a salutary reminder that not all of RTD's instincts are sound
We call RTD the-Louis-Theroux-of-interviewing-Jimmy-Savile of being fond of JK Rowling.
Quote from: McDead on May 10, 2022, 03:49:06 PMThis JK stuff is a salutary reminder that not all of RTD's instincts are sound
So he's to blame for not having the ability to see her becoming a monstrous transphobe seventeen years in the future? Do you think he would've approached her if she was giving off the slightest hint of that at the time?
Remember that for years she gave off the impression of being at least soft left, and it's only the last couple of years the mask has really slipped, necessitating a lot of reassessments of her past work and what it actually says about her personal politics. There's no way anyone in 2005 could've predicted beloved children's author Joanne Rowling would turn out to be such a vile hatemonger.
True, but the idea itself was pretty shonky. It would be interesting to see how much he would have given her to do. I always assumed it would have been a cameo at the end, with David Tennant gushing and telling her what an amazing woman she is. Even before all the transphobia it seemed like a bad idea.
Quote from: Ron Maels Moustache on May 10, 2022, 06:06:04 PMSo he's to blame for not having the ability to see her becoming a monstrous transphobe seventeen years in the future? Do you think he would've approached her if she was giving off the slightest hint of that at the time?
It's more that getting children's author JK Rowling to play herself as a companion in an episode of Doctor Who is an absolutely fucking
wank idea. And I say that as someone who has more time for the Harry Potter books (if not their author) than most on CaB.
Some did notice her nastiness tbf. Urusla Le Guin famously called her work "ethically rather mean-spirited" in 2004. But meh, the episode didn't happen so it's neither here nor there.
I think the idea for the Rowling storyline evolved into "The Shakespeare Code".
Written by... never mind...
Quote from: Midas on May 10, 2022, 06:24:21 PMI think the idea for the Rowling storyline evolved into "The Shakespeare Code".
Written by... never mind...
Holy shit, I never made that connection!
But no, the JKR-as-companion thing came (per The Writer's Tale) during the development of season four or the Tennant specials, I think for the Christmas slot that was eventually filled by Voyage of the Damned.
Quote from: BritishHobo on May 10, 2022, 06:12:18 PMTrue, but the idea itself was pretty shonky. It would be interesting to see how much he would have given her to do. I always assumed it would have been a cameo at the end, with David Tennant gushing and telling her what an amazing woman she is. Even before all the transphobia it seemed like a bad idea.
I dunno - if it had been Michael Rosen I'd have been all for that.
Quote from: Ron Maels Moustache on May 10, 2022, 06:06:04 PMSo he's to blame for not having the ability to see her becoming a monstrous transphobe seventeen years in the future? Do you think he would've approached her if she was giving off the slightest hint of that at the time?
Remember that for years she gave off the impression of being at least soft left, and it's only the last couple of years the mask has really slipped, necessitating a lot of reassessments of her past work and what it actually says about her personal politics. There's no way anyone in 2005 could've predicted beloved children's author Joanne Rowling would turn out to be such a vile hatemonger.
No, as others have said (or at least implied), it's an inherently tacky and inane idea. And I've never liked the show's courting of JK Rowling/the Harry Potter crowd, much as I understand it from a commercial point of view.
Quote from: McDead on May 10, 2022, 06:54:55 PMNo, as others have said (or at least implied), it's an inherently tacky and inane idea. And I've never liked the show's courting of JK Rowling/the Harry Potter crowd, much as I understand it from a commercial point of view.
When i first read the whole story behind it in The Writer's Tale i was very glad it didn't happen. Have never like JK Rowling from day one and Harry Potter is right up there as one of those annoying franchises that everyone is always banging on about like Marvel.
Like you say it would have been a huge thing no doubt in terms of attention but yeah fuck off. Xmas specials are for doing something a bit different and a bit grander on scale, not praising another franchise and/or it's creator. Regardless of their arseholeness.
Quote from: McDead on May 10, 2022, 03:13:06 PMAnd who can forget Mark Strickson and his key role as young Ebenezer in George C Scott's "A Christmas Carol"
Always a fave rewatch, as Strickson was clearly suffering from a whacking head full of cold when his scenes were shot. Mark Strickson as Ringo Starr as Young Ebenezer.
When it comes to things like the JK Rowling adoration, what grated at the time was putting any contemporary alrightish-for-her-demographic writer on the same kind of creative and influential level as Dickens and Shakespeare from the Doctor's perspective, with all of his vast experience of time and space.
But RTD loved indulging that kind of pop-reference impulse, and had no qualms having Big Brother and The Weakest still existing in the future. That kind of thing annoyed me at the time.
The Doctors Daughter was 14 years ago today. 14 years! Who and songs are the top two things that make me go "how long"!
As good as it is to have RTD back does anyone else who lived his era think his new one will give that same sense of excitement and anticipation? As much as I enjoyed an episode I was always excited for the next time trailer.
Past 10 years or so the next time would be my favourite part. I have faith in RTD fully but I've been let down by so many people hints I live in recent years that it's made me really wary.
I suppose I'll keep treating it the way I do Star Trek these days if I don't enjoy it. It's there, if I don't like it there's always the next one, and just look for the positives.
That's what I've done with Who for a long time. This thread just dwells on the negatives over and over again until each page reads exactly like the last. Well the current run thread anyway.
It's a boring read of what has been mostly a boring show but got old quick.
I dunno where I'm even going with this.
Quote from: Replies From View on May 10, 2022, 07:36:18 PMWhen it comes to things like the JK Rowling adoration, what grated at the time was putting any contemporary alrightish-for-her-demographic writer on the same kind of creative and influential level as Dickens and Shakespeare from the Doctor's perspective, with all of his vast experience of time and space.
But RTD loved indulging that kind of pop-reference impulse, and had no qualms having Big Brother and The Weakest still existing in the future. That kind of thing annoyed me at the time.
Right, it's like Star Trek Discovery making vogueish references to - boak - Elon Musk. Not everyone shares the same cloying adoration of these dismal modern figures.
But RTD was very good at getting Who into the papers. Big Brother and The Weakest Link gets the show some column inches, so millions of normals will inadvertently tune in to see the Daleks deliver a nerdy in-joke about the Doctor being half human. It's brilliant, really.
Quote from: McDead on May 10, 2022, 08:06:19 PMRight, it's like Star Trek Discovery making vogueish references to - boak - Elon Musk. Not everyone shares the same cloying adoration of these dismal modern figures.
But RTD was very good at getting Who into the papers. Big Brother and The Weakest Link gets the show some column inches, so millions of normals will inadvertently tune in to see the Daleks deliver a nerdy in-joke about the Doctor being half human. It's brilliant, really.
The Weakest Link/Big Brother/Trinny & Susannah bits were fine with me. Brilliant, even: a ballsy and smart way to say to newcomers, "Yeah, Doctor Who is proper TV just like all these other shows you see on telly." Striding up to the big boys' table right when BB and TWL were at the height of their relevance (while still being established telly fixtures) and saying, "Yep, we belong with this lot. We're big, popular TV. What of it?"
Of course it pissed off people who want Doctor Who to be
better than that, but it was all part of the plan - get the show established and popular, and
then let the show get back to what it was before (more or less).
Besides, the trash telly network was supposed to be villainous, lulling the complacent masses into becoming bloodthirsty, easily amused dickheads. The Rowling bit was less excusable to me because it's The Doctor saying all this stuff, but it fits Ten's characterisation of being a bit of an annoying tit.
Quote from: McDead on May 10, 2022, 03:13:06 PMAnd who can forget Mark Strickson and his key role as young Ebenezer in George C Scott's "A Christmas Carol"
That was actually after he'd left Doctor Who though.
Quote from: Mister Six on May 10, 2022, 08:34:58 PMThe Weakest Link/Big Brother/Trinny & Susannah bits were fine with me. Brilliant, even: a ballsy and smart way to say to newcomers, "Yeah, Doctor Who is proper TV just like all these other shows you see on telly." Striding up to the big boys' table right when BB and TWL were at the height of their relevance (while still being established telly fixtures) and saying, "Yep, we belong with this lot. We're big, popular TV. What of it?"
For me it felt like Doctor Who was stooping down to meet those shows, not stepping up to them. They felt ephemeral and irrelevant even at the time, while Doctor Who felt timeless. Nothing to do with a snobby "my show is better than this" - more their characteristic nature as disposable, fast food television that was always meant to disappear quickly jarred against being dwelled upon by a show suggesting they would survive long into the future.
This was in series 1, though, where the show had yet to show enough different glimpses of the future to put those into perspective.
Haha JK as companion
*Regenerates into 13th*
JK: What the fuck? Why are you pretending to be a woman? You can't just become one like that, it takes being born that way and great hardship *destroys Gallifrey in a rage*
Quote from: Replies From View on May 10, 2022, 07:11:19 AMRuth Doctor wasn't performed very well; I don't know what everyone is talking about. Am I the only one who saw someone standing around reading the lines out really flatly?
I'm not an expert on TV production, but the impression I get is that
direction was one of this era's big failings. There were multiple directors throughout, so how they managed that I don't know (bad instructions from Chibnall? Bad hiring choices?) but "just stand there reading these lines blankly while we do nothing to make the scene dynamic and exciting and ask nothing of your performance" seems like a bad director thing to me.
Yes, it's as if they rehearsed without an opportunity to interact with their environments or any props apart from the sonic screwdriver, or the script never required them to because it was all expository.
Quote from: McDead on May 10, 2022, 06:54:55 PMJK Rowling/the Harry Potter crowd
Graham Linehan considers rewrite.
Quote from: Replies From View on May 10, 2022, 09:58:43 PMFor me it felt like Doctor Who was stooping down to meet those shows, not stepping up to them. They felt ephemeral and irrelevant even at the time, while Doctor Who felt timeless. Nothing to do with a snobby "my show is better than this" - more their characteristic nature as disposable, fast food television that was always meant to disappear quickly jarred against being dwelled upon by a show suggesting they would survive long into the future.
This was in series 1, though, where the show had yet to show enough different glimpses of the future to put those into perspective.
That's entirely understandable, because you're approaching it (as I did at the time) as a long-time fan. But in 2005, Who really
was stepping up to those shows. Nobody under about 23 had even seen the show when it first aired (or remembered it if they did, excepting the few among their cohort who became lifelong fans) and it existed in the popular consciousness as a sad punchline - the cheap, tacky, cancelled, rubbish UK sci-fi embarrassment. Ricky Gervais was still doing that joke during the Tennant years in Extras, the hack cunt!
So yeah, when Davies was writing this episode, Doctor Who was nothing compared to Big Brother - literally, in the eyes of the UK's children, who had no idea what it was. In that context, associating with those shows boosted, not diminished, its brand with the target audience. Which is really all that matters. And Davies knew if it worked it would be a passing thing, that Who would carry itself in the long run. By season four, the show is introducing kids to Agatha Christie...
Quote from: Cloud on May 10, 2022, 10:39:15 PMI'm not an expert on TV production, but the impression I get is that direction was one of this era's big failings. There were multiple directors throughout, so how they managed that I don't know (bad instructions from Chibnall? Bad hiring choices?) but "just stand there reading these lines blankly while we do nothing to make the scene dynamic and exciting and ask nothing of your performance" seems like a bad director thing to me.
I think that's a writing thing too, though. If you have characters that have no character, and dialogue that's nothing but exposition, and people saying "I feel angry because the Dalek killed my dog!", and scenes that are just people standing around talking, and plots that are meandering and rote - I mean, what the fuck can you do with that?
There's a bit in The Witchfinders in which the zombie things just stand around in the background with their arms lolling while the protagonists chatter at length, because if the zombies did what they
would do in that moment - which is march up while the goodies are gabbing and pull their heads off - the scene would be over.
Yeah, that can be (and ought to have been) obscured in the camera angles and editing, but the script still demands the action stop while people stand around and have a good old natter.
Likewise the bit in Arachnids in which Ryan tells Graham about his dad's letter while they're trying to capture a giant, deadly spider - the scene requires the characters to be relaxed enough to chat about personal issues while placing them in mortal danger!
Compare that to Davies and Moffat, who know enough to let the characters lock themselves in a room away from the action when this stuff is required - or at least boil exposition down to a few brief remarks and a joke instead of endless flat dialogue devoid of any spark.
Basically, what I'm trying to say is that the direction is for the most part determined by the scripts, especially on a lowish budget telly show where you don't have the time or money to reshoot stuff or rewrite the pages.
Davies knew that - there's a whole bit in The Writer's Tale how he wanted to have a character walk in on a surprise birthday party, but at the scripting stage he realised how much you'd have to show of a dark room and whispering people simply because the character had to park her car, walk up to her flat, put the key in the lock etc before anyone could shout "Surprise!"
Of course, Chibnall has no sense of pacing or action or character or dynamic visuals or anything you would want from a showrunner, and so his episodes and those rewritten by him are hobbled before they even get in front of a camera.
As a long-time fan, I grew fonder of RTD as time went on, whilst Moffat had diminishing returns after his first full series. The ratings and the show's global popularity under both showrunners broadly mirrored that. That speaks to me of how incredible RTD was in the role, no matter his idiosyncrasies (his tawdry quirks if you will).
RTD could make most of the series about emoji conquering the Earth and if it results in one episode with the quality of Midnight then he'll have blasted Chibnall out of the sky.
To be fair to Moffat, if his final series was his 'break emergency glass' stuff then it shows he still had some quality held back, whereas RTD was pretty well spent.
Quote from: Mister Six on May 11, 2022, 12:00:17 AMThere's a bit in The Witchfinders in which the zombie things just stand around in the background with their arms lolling while the protagonists chatter at length, because if they did what they would do - which is march up while the goodies are gabbing and pull their heads off - the scene would be over.
This is something that I guess I'm "kind of used to" from anime where the "enemy just sits there while the good guys chat / explain at length the attack move they just made" thing is a longstanding trope. It used to bug the hell out of me, and then I shrugged and forced some suspension of disbelief. But yeah..
Fair point and if direction is an issue I'm only saying it's part of the issue not the whole one. It seems to be a general team of incompetence all round
It doesn't bother me in anime, funnily enough, perhaps because the artificiality of the situation is so obvious anyway. But I hate it in live-action telly, and even in more "realistic" animation (it happens a lot in the cutscenes of the Yakuza games, and gets on my tits there too).
Quote from: Psybro on May 11, 2022, 12:26:35 AMAs a long-time fan, I grew fonder of RTD as time went on, whilst Moffat had diminishing returns after his first full series. The ratings and the show's global popularity under both showrunners broadly mirrored that.
Moffat had to contend with split-season/skipped year budget bullshit from the BBC, though, as well as losing his initial core cast before he was done with them. Both of those things, but especially the former, are likely to take their toll.
Mind you, I do think that Moffat's later seasons (esp. 8 and 9) got too dark and gloomy for regular audiences, and losing the sexy young lead won't have helped. I'm grateful to him for taking those risks and pushing the boundaries of modern Who, though.
Does Dr Who have to be a hugely popular ratings champion to exist? Can it not be downscaled in terms of budget but upscaled in terms of quality writing? It's like saying all bands need to be chasing commercial success as their primary goal of creating their art.
Doctor Who has been popular entertainment with shoddy writing since 1963, why change that now?
Doctor Who has always had cardboard poking out
The thing is, modern who has never been consistently great, or even good. Most series under RTD and Moffat had a handful of standouts, a handful of middling/good episodes, and a couple of absolute duds. It was just that the standouts were so good you always had to come back for the next series.
Chibnall managed maybe 1 good episode per series, and then two stinking handfuls of absolute dreck that made even the weakest episodes of an RTD or Moffat series look entertaining and witty.
Frankly I don't care if we get a bunch of crap, pop culture episodes under RTD, so long as we're also back to getting the 4-5 episodes that made the show worth watching, as well.
I agree with that, but it's a bit cheeky to describe Chibnall's best episodes as "good".
"Acceptable"?
I hope that RTD has found a new Moffatt. Someone he can rely on two do a couple of amazing episodes per series, with no hand-holding required.
It's probably too much to hope that person will be Moffatt.
Quote from: Replies From View on May 11, 2022, 08:40:45 AMI agree with that, but it's a bit cheeky to describe Chibnall's best episodes as "good".
I don't think Chibnall's done a single solo episode as showrunner that reaches that standard, but I'd argue Rosa and The Frankenstein Villa one, plus maybe one or two more by other writers could be described as good.
Russell was enthusing about Kayleigh Llewellyn recently, who just won the Bafta for her brilliant BBC3 series In My Skin - she does serious and funny and can do heavy themes with a light touch and her writing is emotionally-driven and accessible. If she harbours any Who ambitions, she'd be great.
I wonder if he'll go down the new writers route of Chibnall, or the old hands path of Moffat. Hopefully a bit of both.
Quote from: Mister Six on May 10, 2022, 03:23:02 PMThat sounds like the climax of series 7, with Clara glimpsing The Doctor's past, including extra dressed like McCoy etc dashing by her.
Ah, no, I think I'm thinking of this but from The Witch's Familiar:
QuoteThe Fourth and First Doctors make brief appearances during Missy's exposition of her account of the Doctor's fight with 50 android assassins.
Moffat has seen Gatwa in action.
https://www.doctorwhotv.co.uk/moffat-has-seen-ncuti-gatwa-in-action-as-the-doctor-he-is-magnificent-97246.htm
At first I thought that meant filming had started, or Moffat had attended a read-through or rehearsals, but he means he has seen Gatwa's audition tape.
Quote from: bobloblaw on May 11, 2022, 10:13:50 AMRussell was enthusing about Kayleigh Llewellyn recently, who just won the Bafta for her brilliant BBC3 series In My Skin - she does serious and funny and can do heavy themes with a light touch and her writing is emotionally-driven and accessible. If she harbours any Who ambitions, she'd be great.
I wonder if he'll go down the new writers route of Chibnall, or the old hands path of Moffat. Hopefully a bit of both.
I don't really want to call using new writers a "Chibnall" thing. JNT often tried to give new writers a shot at Doctor Who so we could call it that instead.
Personally I think it needs to be new writers from now on. Fans of 1970s and 80s Who have had their turn and defined an era, but it's time to move on to fresher pastures.
Quote from: bobloblaw on May 11, 2022, 10:13:50 AMRussell was enthusing about Kayleigh Llewellyn recently, who just won the Bafta for her brilliant BBC3 series In My Skin - she does serious and funny and can do heavy themes with a light touch and her writing is emotionally-driven and accessible. If she harbours any Who ambitions, she'd be great.
I wonder if he'll go down the new writers route of Chibnall, or the old hands path of Moffat. Hopefully a bit of both.
In My Skin is excellent and I hope she's up for writing an episode.
Quote from: Alberon on May 11, 2022, 08:55:50 AM"Acceptable"?
Hmm. It depends if placeholders for what could have been alright - with more work and effort - should be deemed "acceptable".
I'd call them glimmers of potential towards acceptability that fall short.
Quote from: Cloud on May 10, 2022, 10:39:15 PMI'm not an expert on TV production, but the impression I get is that direction was one of this era's big failings. There were multiple directors throughout, so how they managed that I don't know (bad instructions from Chibnall? Bad hiring choices?) but "just stand there reading these lines blankly while we do nothing to make the scene dynamic and exciting and ask nothing of your performance" seems like a bad director thing to me.
One of the tricks of writing low-budget TV (and this is something that goes back to the days when drama on TV was basically just filmed theatre) is to convince the audience that there's a larger world going on outside the frame of the camera, even if you've only got a small set to shoot in and a handful of speaking actors.
This is something they managed back in the Hartnell era when the show barely had any resources available to it, but I feel like in the Chibnall era the show failed even on this basic level. The worlds presented to us just no longer feel like believable places, they're just empty spaces for the actors to walk around in while they recite exposition. Arachnids In The UK is a typical example, it takes place in a bustling modern city but the Sheffield presented on screen feels utterly desolate and devoid of life, and not for any valid story reason either. The post-bomb Sheffield of Threads had more life in it. Where is everyone? Why does it all feel so dead?
I've just been through it scene by scene to check it wasn't just my negative feelings about the whole Chibnall era colouring my memory of it, and as far as I've been able to tell there's one, just
one, short moment 15 minutes in that features anyone other than the speaking characters - the main cast walk across a bridge and you see a couple of people out of focus in the background and someone else walks past. That's it, in the whole episode. Apart from that it's a ghost town.
Quote from: Replies From View on May 11, 2022, 10:33:40 AMFans of 1970s and 80s Who have had their turn and defined an era, but it's time to move on to fresher pastures.
It would be interesting to see a version of the show written largely by people who got into it through RTD's era. Not necessarily good - I'm really not the biggest fan of series 1-4 - but I'd be curious to see how writers, for whom that was 'their' Who, would write it.
Quote from: purlieu on May 11, 2022, 11:15:54 AMIt would be interesting to see a version of the show written largely by people who got into it through RTD's era. Not necessarily good - I'm really not the biggest fan of series 1-4 - but I'd be curious to see how writers, for whom that was 'their' Who, would write it.
That's only a matter of time - we are talking about people who are Thomas' age. 14 years old now, but 30 (and hopefully bald as fuck) in about five months.
Let's not overlook the potential of brilliant writers who don't class themselves as fans. It can be the showrunner's job to take any given script and make sure it fits fully - every individual writer doesn't need geeky awareness about the history of the show.
I even have a few friends now with screenwriting degrees and agents, on the verge of professional gigs. If they get to write Doctor Who I will stop watching out of jealousy. I'd rather a hundred more years of Chibnall than that, anything but the torture of successful friends.
Look at how young Thomas is, with his swathe of friends who are beginning their careers and not even dying yet.
Little bit about the audition process:
https://www.radiotimes.com/tv/sci-fi/doctor-who-ncuti-gatwa-audition-newsupdate/
I'd love to see what the script is. I'm guessing it's designed to showcase all the different sides of the Doctor and take you silliness through to fury, with everything inbetween. I still think Matt Smith is the absolute master of those shifts, in all of New Who. The fun giving way to absolute seriousness.
"Days like crazy paving..."
I'm so f*cking excited. This is going to be great.
Quote from: Kelvin on May 11, 2022, 07:20:03 AMThe thing is, modern who has never been consistently great, or even good. Most series under RTD and Moffat had a handful of standouts, a handful of middling/good episodes, and a couple of absolute duds. It was just that the standouts were so good you always had to come back for the next series.
Chibnall managed maybe 1 good episode per series, and then two stinking handfuls of absolute dreck that made even the weakest episodes of an RTD or Moffat series look entertaining and witty.
Frankly I don't care if we get a bunch of crap, pop culture episodes under RTD, so long as we're also back to getting the 4-5 episodes that made the show worth watching, as well
Absolutely agree with all of this. I guess the one crucial difference with RTD's writing style is that this time the criteria for the show's success isn't going to be getting 10m viewers and beating And and Dec, it's going to be building a coherent ongoing narrative and establishing the show as a amajority of people are going to watch online.
Quote from: purlieu on May 11, 2022, 10:26:08 AMAh, no, I think I'm thinking of this but from The Witch's Familiar:
Ah! I'd completely forgotten about that.
Quote from: Replies From View on May 11, 2022, 10:33:40 AMI don't really want to call using new writers a "Chibnall" thing. JNT often tried to give new writers a shot at Doctor Who so we could call it that instead.
Personally I think it needs to be new writers from now on. Fans of 1970s and 80s Who have had their turn and defined an era, but it's time to move on to fresher pastures.
With some old hands to lighten the load, though. The Sea Devils story shows the dangers of hiring inexperienced writers, however much innate talent they might have.
My only concern is that with a couple of exceptions (hi, Maxine!), the new writers have mostly been churning out quite worthy but bland stories. That might just be Chibnall attracting beige writers or him rejigging everything to remove any spark of charm or strangeness.
Hopefully RTD can find new writers with odd sensibilities and a spark of brilliance, and in any case his rewrites will be stronger than Chibnall.
But having a Moffat or two that can crank out a solid-to-great story without much supervision will help him a ton.
Quote from: Ron Maels Moustache on May 11, 2022, 11:13:48 AMI've just been through it scene by scene to check it wasn't just my negative feelings about the whole Chibnall era colouring my memory of it, and as far as I've been able to tell there's one, just one, short moment 15 minutes in that features anyone other than the speaking characters - the main cast walk across a bridge and you see a couple of people out of focus in the background and someone else walks past. That's it, in the whole episode. Apart from that it's a ghost town.
This happened so frequently (Kerblam is another odd one - an entire planet that's a warehouse, except there's only about 15 people on it, and you only see 10 of those in a single shot at the end) that I assumed they must have hacked down the budget by deliberately avoiding hiring extras where possible.
It does make it all feel very cheap and empty, though. I'd rather have had fewer whizzy CGI Daleks and more crowd shots, to be honest.
Curious that RTD is talking about the centenary episode rather than Chibnall. As if Chibnall is already now taking a backseat even regarding his own stories.
https://thedoctorwhocompanion.com/2022/05/10/doctor-who-centenary-special-to-air-as-a-90-minute-episode-in-october-according-to-russell-t-davies/
What's 'supersizing' the show going to mean then, do you reckon? Lots of crappy spinoffs? A movie?
Quote from: pigamus on May 11, 2022, 04:59:11 PMWhat's 'supersizing' the show going to mean then, do you reckon? Lots of crappy spinoffs? A movie?
I'm not sure who has been using the term - was it RTD or someone else? Maybe it means expanding a series back to 13 episodes from 2021's 6?
You might say that 6 episodes was an anomaly but I bet it would have been cemented as the norm if the BBC could have gotten away with it. It's my firm belief that this is the true reason for the split series 6 and 7.
My guess is that at its core we'll have 13-episode series back after their gradual shrinkage since series 8. Around them, we'll get some mini-episodes or budget going into free-to-play games, things like that to hype up the show and generate excitement. A return of something like Doctor Who Confidential showing the actors at work being themselves and ensuring fans are clued in about returning villains. Maybe a year or two later we'll start getting spin-offs.
Quote from: Replies From View on May 11, 2022, 04:58:22 PMCurious that RTD is talking about the centenary episode rather than Chibnall. As if Chibnall is already now taking a backseat even regarding his own stories.
https://thedoctorwhocompanion.com/2022/05/10/doctor-who-centenary-special-to-air-as-a-90-minute-episode-in-october-according-to-russell-t-davies/
Fucking 90 minutes of Chibnall! Christ almighty.
Quote from: Mister Six on May 11, 2022, 05:57:52 PMFucking 90 minutes of Chibnall! Christ almighty.
I just think of an episode like Time of the Doctor that really needed just ten more minutes to spread properly and not feel rushed.
Truly, God has forsaken us.
Quote from: Kelvin on May 11, 2022, 08:59:54 AMI don't think Chibnall's done a single solo episode as showrunner that reaches that standard, but I'd argue Rosa and The Frankenstein Villa one, plus maybe one or two more by other writers could be described as good.
Frog on a chair (I refuse to learn the real title of this episode).
Quote from: mjwilson on May 11, 2022, 06:22:07 PMFrog on a chair (I refuse to learn the real title of this episode).
I haven't seen it since it aired but I was shocked by the positive reaction it got here. I think people must have just had incredibly low expectations.
Maybe go into it again with an open mind and see if you can persuade yourself that it was shite.
Quote from: Replies From View on May 11, 2022, 06:28:45 PMI haven't seen it since it aired but I was shocked by the positive reaction it got here. I think people must have just had incredibly low expectations.
Maybe go into it again with an open mind and see if you can persuade yourself that it was shite.
Kevin Eldon was in it. By law it therefor cannot be shite.
Was that the one where Ryan's dead nan shows up and they never give Ryan a scene with her?
Yep. I'm another supporter of the episode (I think it's a fantastic conceit, and I love the execution, frog and all), but it does have its flaws - that one, and The Doctor not giving the dad a royal bollocking for basically mentally abusing his disabled daughter.
I'm going to quite unfairly say that the latter was in there when the script was submitted, but Chibnall took it out because his moral compass immediately becomes demagnetised the moment he goes anywhere near Doctor Who.
Quote from: Malcy on May 11, 2022, 06:30:28 PMKevin Eldon was in it. By law it therefor cannot be shite.
You especially loved him in
An American Tail 4: The Mystery of the Night Monster. It is your favourite ever film.
Edgar Wright has put up two Instagram posts - one of a blue door with "wet paint" written on it (https://www.instagram.com/p/CdWwatqIH8P/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=), and another of a series of hexagons (https://www.instagram.com/p/Cda2sFsL22G/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=). RTD has liked both.
Edgar Wright stepping into the director's chair for the 60th, then?
EDIT: My god, imagine Wright having to struggle with a Chibnall script. Desperately hope he's not doing the centenary. But I imagine he would have teased it long before.
I don't associate hexagons with Doctor Who... what's the connection?
the original TARDIS console was hexagonal
Blimey how tenuous. Not doubting that he's dropping hints, but that's a stretch.
They've decided the old console room had hexagons for some reason. I think it does in Twice Upon A Time?
i suppose the "roundels" in the RTD-era TARDIS were hexagonal too
(https://i.imgur.com/BjYY4yz.jpeg)
Yeah it's interesting that actually - the old console did have a sort of hexagon floor plate thing round it, plus I think the original ceiling thing, the one they dropped as it was too much of a faff, that was hexagonal? Plus the zigzag hinges on the internal doors, they give the impression of a circle inside a hexagon even though they weren't quite. So it's not quite a misremembering of what the old TARDIS looked like...
So the real reason they like to announce new Doctors in the middle of football matches is that the interconnected hexagons and pentagons forming the surface of a leather football is code for Doctor Who.
RTD's going to feel pretty stupid when it turns out to be Blockbusters
Lots of hexagons in the new era, the roundels have usually been hexagonal, some of the RTD era DVD covers had them on. The RTD-era books all have hexagons on the spines:
(https://i.postimg.cc/pTrBWM4G/whooo.jpg)
The Daleks are hexagons. Well, not really, but they are funny looking.
Kids these days must be sick of hexagons in all Doctor Who related media, and I'd have assumed that with a fresh reboot situation RTD might have sought out a few other shapes for the spines of the novelisations.
Quote from: pigamus on May 11, 2022, 10:57:16 PMAre you on an E?
Tell him he needs to count one more.
Quote from: purlieu on May 11, 2022, 10:46:48 PMLots of hexagons in the new era, the roundels have usually been hexagonal, some of the RTD era DVD covers had them on. The RTD-era books all have hexagons on the spines:
(https://i.postimg.cc/pTrBWM4G/whooo.jpg)
Yep, and they were all over the RTD-era official website:
(https://www.thedoctorwhosite.co.uk/timeline/2005/images/website-1.jpg)
Quote from: Mister Six on May 11, 2022, 11:12:30 PMYep, and they were all over the RTD-era official website:
(https://www.thedoctorwhosite.co.uk/timeline/2005/images/website-1.jpg)
Imagine if the next thing was RTD announcing radical new "copper and bronze" Daleks.
Got to be a lock then that Edgar Wright is directing RTD's first episode, right? It's a masterstroke, if so.
Buxton cameo ahoy!
"One day, I shall go from gold to gold in sixty seconds or less. Yes, I shall go from gold to gold in sixty seconds or less. Until then, there must be no regrets, no tears, no anxieties..."
Quote from: McDead on May 11, 2022, 11:32:57 PMGot to be a lock then that Edgar Wright is directing RTD's first episode, right? It's a masterstroke, if so.
Will we also get the long-awaited Peter Jackson episode under Rusty too?
And that coveted Stephen Fry episode which definitely exists and isn't shit
For a group of failed comedy writers, you've all missed the obvious project Edgar Wright is alluding to.
https://youtu.be/bP-ot58SEVI
Quote from: notjosh on May 12, 2022, 08:01:10 AMWill we also get the long-awaited Peter Jackson episode under Rusty too?
If Jackson starts posting coy Instagram pics of pepperpots, then we'll know it's on the cards
I was getting confused just then, because people were talking about a different Jackson's music being used in a Sonic game. Hey presto I thought some folk here were getting excited about a dead paedoph writing for Doctor Who, and I almost didn't question it because wokeism is so demonised in 2022-3.
Quote from: Mister Six on May 11, 2022, 05:57:52 PMFucking 90 minutes of Chibnall! Christ almighty.
I've seen rumours that RTD had a certain amount of input into the Centenary special. I doubt he's written anything, except possibly a post-regen scene, but is it too much to hope Chibs maybe asked for his advice and took on board some of what he said?
Quote from: olliebean on May 12, 2022, 01:21:16 PMI've seen rumours that RTD had a certain amount of input into the Centenary special. I doubt he's written anything, except possibly a post-regen scene, but is it too much to hope Chibs maybe asked for his advice and took on board some of what he said?
Do you remember how well episodes written by Chibnall under RTD and Moffat's showrunning turned out?
Quote from: JamesTC on May 12, 2022, 01:26:41 PMDo you remember how well episodes written by Chibnall under RTD and Moffat's showrunning turned out?
Not great, but better than they did when he was in charge, on the whole.
Rumours that
Spoiler alert
David Tennant
has been spotted multiple times around Cardiff, and near the Wolf Studios down the Bay.
Quote from: olliebean on May 12, 2022, 01:31:19 PMNot great, but better than they did when he was in charge, on the whole.
Jesus. His era is even worse than I could have imagined.
Quote from: BritishHobo on May 12, 2022, 01:34:31 PMRumours that Spoiler alert
David Tennant
I can't see the sense of
Spoiler alert
putting another Doctor in a new Doctor's first episode. My personal guess is that RTD wants to do something for Christmas and has got a short with Tennant planned.
Quote from: olliebean on May 12, 2022, 01:21:16 PMI've seen rumours that RTD had a certain amount of input into the Centenary special. I doubt he's written anything, except possibly a post-regen scene, but is it too much to hope Chibs maybe asked for his advice and took on board some of what he said?
Even if true, I suspect it is limited to the post-regen scene (as is tradition) and maybe some requests of where some things are left at the end of Chibnall fucking everything into the ground.
I honestly think people overestimate how much general fans care about continuity and understanding where things are.
Spoiler alert
If Tennant returns as an interim incarnation then the general audience will treat it like when Sean Connery returned to Bond.
Whittaker regenerating into Tennant and him staring into a mirror exclaiming "what?" three times like the old days would be the classic cliffhanger that got everybody talking that RTD excelled at. I fucking loathed Voyage of the Damned but it was a fucking brilliant cliffhanger.
That would be pandering to fans in their mid or late 20s rather than focusing on new 8 year olds.
It would be like if RTD brought back McCoy for a quick spin on the wheels in 2005 before letting the series begin properly.
8 year olds don't care. So long as there is an engaging monster, they'll be happy.
More than anything, having Tennant as an 'interim' Doctor it would be hugely disrespectful to Ncuti Gatwa. "Yeah Ncuti, you're the guy we've been bigging up as the show's future - but sorry, for the big episode we're going to wheel this guy out again". Nah.
If a multi-Doctor story - or at least a dual-Doctor story - is nailed on for the 60th, it was always going to be Tennant returning. He feels it's an exciting thing for fans, he's on record saying it always felt like a tragedy that Tom Baker never appeared in The Five Doctors, and he'll bother to make himself available if asked. Smith is the other one you can expect to appear, but he isn't quite so committed. I can imagine him returning for the 70th.
But yeah I can be perfectly happy with Gatwa being the 14th Doctor and meeting the 10th Doctor in an appropriate adventure, even if it's his first. What I can't swallow is the need for Tennant to be the 14th and Gatwa to be the 15th. It just seems stupid to me.
Tennant could of course be returning as someone who isn't the 10th Doctor, as when Piper returned for the 50th. A malevolent shapeshifter of some kind would be interesting, in the same way as Tom Baker's idea that he could return as the Master. Anything mischievous like that, just not the flipping 14th Doctor.
I think Smith said around the 50th that he'd be back for a future anniversary, but I can't remember which one and he might have meant the 75th. I can see him being generally enthusiastic but not willing to turn down Hollywood work if the schedules clash. To be honest, the fewer other Doctors and the more Ncuti the better, I think. Let the new lad enjoy the limelight.
Also, if Chibnall gets 90 minutes but Ncuti's first episode is 45-60, I'll be furious.
(Is he an Ncuti or a Gatwa? Guess we'll see when he debuts. Matt has become Smith in my head since he went off-air as The Doctor, apparently.)
I'd be happy enough if
Spoiler alert
Tennant
turns out to have been
Spoiler alert
the Watcher all along
The surname tends to be used. Either way we get two with the same.
Quote from: Mister Six on May 12, 2022, 05:50:55 PMAlso, if Chibnall gets 90 minutes but Ncuti's first episode is 45-60, I'll be furious.
(Is he an Ncuti or a Gatwa? Guess we'll see when he debuts. Matt has become Smith in my head since he went off-air as The Doctor, apparently.)
Somebody should make up a Photoshop of him with Lassie, Beethoven and the Littlest Hobo, then put it up on Twitter as "Ncuti dog thing"
Quote from: JamesTC on May 12, 2022, 05:54:17 PMThe surname tends to be used. Either way we get two with the same.
Ah, of course. Ncuti Gatwa and Sylvester Gatwa.
"Gatwa" will henceforth constantly form in your mind as "Gatiss" as punishment
Quote from: JamesTC on May 12, 2022, 05:54:17 PMThe surname tends to be used. Either way we get two with the same.
Nah, Eccleston is an Eccleston, Tennant is a Tennant and Capaldi is a Capaldi, but Matt is a Matt (or was, but I'm coming around again) and Jodie is a Jodie.
Quote from: McDead on May 12, 2022, 06:24:21 PMAh, of course. Ncuti Gatwa and Sylvester Gatwa.
Speaking of Sylvester Gatwa, he put out a lovely video when Gatwa was announced (https://twitter.com/4SylvesterMcCoy/status/1523719205509492737) which Gatwa replied to (https://twitter.com/4SylvesterMcCoy/status/1524458296136110081).
Step-mum asked me what I thought of the casting yesterday, despite her never really being interested in Doctor Who. She said that she thought he'd be really good as she thinks he is great on Sex Education.
Quote from: Mister Six on May 12, 2022, 06:30:07 PMNah, Eccleston is an Eccleston, Tennant is a Tennant and Capaldi is a Capaldi, but Matt is a Matt (or was, but I'm coming around again) and Jodie is a Jodie.
I've seen some people be accused of being sexist when referring to Whittaker as "Jodie". I think that is bollocks but worth bearing in mind if you post on certain places outside of here and don't want the agro.
Oh no, calling her Whittaker would be a massive red flag
You'd guarantee use of the word 'females' in the same paragraph
Who do you prefer, Baker or Baker?
"Coo it says here that you can win a slap up feed at the latest Doctor Who convention with the 14th Doctor as company!"
"Why take her?" (Actually "Whittaker", pronounced unrealistically wrongly)
"Because she is the one listed as the prize. And she is already going to be there, nobody would be taking her, as such."
Quote from: purlieu on May 12, 2022, 06:42:04 PMWho do you prefer, Baker or Baker?
Baker is better on TV, while Baker? is better on Audio.
Quote from: JamesTC on May 12, 2022, 06:35:08 PMI've seen some people be accused of being sexist when referring to Whittaker as "Jodie". I think that is bollocks but worth bearing in mind if you post on certain places outside of here and don't want the agro.
I've not encountered that, but I'd ignore it if I did. Fuck 'em.
(For the record: Hartnell, Troughton, Pertwee, Mad Tom, Davison, Colin Baker but would be a straight-up Baker without Tom around, Sylv, McGann.)
Edgar Wright has denied the rumours (https://twitter.com/edgarwright/status/1524731941970403328)
Quote from: Midas on May 12, 2022, 07:48:38 PMEdgar Wright has denied the rumours (https://twitter.com/edgarwright/status/1524731941970403328)
Bums.
Quote from: Midas on May 12, 2022, 07:48:38 PMEdgar Wright has denied the rumours (https://twitter.com/edgarwright/status/1524731941970403328)
WHAT ELSE COULD HONEYCOMB REPRESENT
Quote from: Replies From View on May 13, 2022, 12:40:14 AMWHAT ELSE COULD HONEYCOMB REPRESENT
Live action Bee Movie remake
So he did escape from Traken...
I'm looking forward to the books that will come out of the 60th anniversary - the ones covering the history of the show, its monsters, describing the TARDIS again and its various changes - I love each era's different takes on that information.
I'm surprised there hasn't been a podcast series chronicling the warts-and-all history of the series from the start. With most of the controversial participants now dead, it seems like a golden opportunity.
The time to deal with the controversial stuff is when the show is on a high, not when it's in rescue manoeuvres. Probably a year or two before they can risk that stuff again.
I meant stuff in the 1960s and 1970s, rather than anything that could be pinned on people who are still relevant, such as Troughton taking the job to support his various families or Ray Cusick being shafted over the Dalek design.
The 40th anniversary celebrated the show more as an old thing from our childhoods that had a lot of embarrassing cardboardy monsters. I'd say the next time for reflection on the show's controversies would be during a similar hiatus.
Coming soon from Big Finish Productions...
The Various Families of Patrick Troughton
Starring Frazer Hines as Patrick Troughton.
Also starring Frazer Hines as himself and Nicholas Briggs as the Daleks.
I'm not saying it would be any kind of BBC Sounds-distributed official history. I'm just suprised no one seems to have done one at all.
Wasn't much of it rumour and not really substantiated with evidence? I mean I don't doubt that Hartnell was anti-Semitic and Troughton was a bit of a sex pest. But is there anything beyond what was heard at conventions?
Nothing about him being a sex pest, more that he was a common-law bigamist who took the job because he needed a secure regular income to feed his numerous children. Hartnell's supposed antisemitism stems I think from a single occurence, during the making of The Myth Makers when he was already upset at all the people with whom he had launched the series now gone and the new producer not letting him attend his adoptive mother's funeral, so he lashed out at guest Max Adrian who was getting a lot of positive attention from the cast and crew. A very shitty thing to do, obviously, but not necessarily a pattern of behaviour.
Have read a few sources claiming Hartnell had unreconstructed views on race generally
The stuff about Troughton I'd heard was about him sleeping with fans at conventions. Nothing illegal, just a bit of a dodgy power imbalance. The 80s were a different time though.
Quote from: Norton Canes on May 13, 2022, 04:04:51 PMHave read a few sources claiming Hartnell had unreconstructed views on race generally
He speaks very fondly of Paul Robeson during his Desert Island Discs appearance. It's possible that his opinions weren't too different to anyone else born into a poorly-educated working class in 1908.
Make of this what you will.
(https://i.ibb.co/8jqspbc/Screenshot-2022-05-13-at-16-55-58-William-Who-on-Twitter.png)
"Beyond stupid, truly inane. I prayed for death throughout"
Quote from: Deanjam on May 13, 2022, 04:56:54 PMMake of this what you will.
(https://i.ibb.co/8jqspbc/Screenshot-2022-05-13-at-16-55-58-William-Who-on-Twitter.png)
Why did he choose the word "but" there?
"This is what a ten year old would write, except that yes - that is indeed quite unfair to ten year olds."
The quote is almost hilarious in the way it sidesteps being an endorsement.
"A 10-year-old but not a scrawny one, one of those weird ones who's hit puberty freakishly early"
If that's a real quote it's a masterpiece of very careful wording.
So glad to be reassured that RTD knows how shit Chibnall is.
Prediction - Gatwa's Doctor will have red hair. When he first sees himself in the mirror, his response will be utter ecstasy at finally being ginger, with no reference to skin colour.
Quote from: Cerys on May 14, 2022, 11:26:44 AMPrediction - Gatwa's Doctor will have red hair. When he first sees himself in the mirror, his response will be utter ecstasy at finally being ginger, with no reference to skin colour.
"Fuck me! I look like a N
Spoiler alert
igel!
Or perhaps a W
Spoiler alert
illiam."
Quote from: Cerys on May 14, 2022, 11:26:44 AMPrediction - Gatwa's Doctor will have red hair. When he first sees himself in the mirror, his response will be utter ecstasy at finally being ginger, with no reference to skin colour.
That's actually very sweet.
It would be a brilliant pay-off to a ten-year-long joke. Someone send this to RTD!
Quote from: Alberon on May 14, 2022, 12:57:27 PM"Fuck me! I look like a NSpoiler alert
igel!
Spoiler alert
illiam."
Will they force him into being a cockney like Tennant?
Quote from: Bad Ambassador on May 13, 2022, 09:29:10 AMI'm surprised there hasn't been a podcast series chronicling the warts-and-all history of the series from the start. With most of the controversial participants now dead
We're still waiting on the full details of sofagate.
Quote from: jamiefairlie on May 14, 2022, 04:53:01 PMWill they force him into being a cockney like Tennant?
Maybe. RTD did say he didn't want to be seen "touring the counties" when moving from Eccles to Tennant, and I guess there's a similar shift here, from Northern English to Scottish. Come to think of it, Smith's the only plummy-sounding main Doc we've had since 2005, isn't he?
Then again, maybe that fact will make him feel more relaxed about having two regional Docs in a row
God, it's
so great to be excited and intrigued by Who again.
Yep.
The second Wilderness Years are almost over!
More interesting nonsense from the official Doctor Who twitter account.
https://twitter.com/bbcdoctorwho/status/1525876167118667776?t=X3OuJs9QYERaI8FKcsWOkg&s=19
This was also posted on their insta, with a comment from Tea Lady underneath saying "They're Back!" Lots of rumours that it's metacrisis Doctor plus Rose, or Tenth Doctor and Donna, or two CGI Bernard Cribbins
New doctor posted that day of his reveal as well I'm sure.
Metacrisis Doctor didn't have two hearts did he?
Must admit, I tend to forget that with the prospect of more exciting Doctor Who comes this inevitable wave of absolute millennials gasping and swooning every eight seconds about emojies.
Quote from: Malcy on May 15, 2022, 06:05:08 PMNew doctor posted that day of his reveal as well I'm sure.
Didn't he post two hearts plus blue box? This is two hearts plus blue diamond. Plus what does "they're back!" mean (if it wasn't clear, RTD posted this in the comments)
Quote from: Replies From View on May 15, 2022, 06:07:10 PMMetacrisis Doctor didn't have two hearts did he?
I am merely reporting the rumours as I hear them. You could, with a moderate stretch of the imagination, say it refers to two lovers (Meta and Rose)
Two hearts plus diamond.
I assume some sort of announcement is imminent on the 60th anniversary (diamond anniversary).
Surely two hearts just refers to the Doctor? Plus the Diamond anniversary. Not sure why any other explanation is necessary.
The "they're back" comment from RTD underneath the Instagram post adds a slightly different complexion to things, no? It's not just "the Doctor", it's some notional "them".
Quote from: McDead on May 15, 2022, 06:21:15 PMThe "they're back" comment from RTD underneath the Instagram post adds a slightly different complexion to things, no? It's not just "the Doctor", it's some notional "them".
Maybe he's refering to good scripts.
It's
Spoiler alert
Tennant and Tate
https://mobile.twitter.com/BBC/status/1525898809410215937
Mixed blessings.
Though Plymouth Live must be feeling *pretty smug* tonight
Quote from: McDead on May 15, 2022, 06:21:15 PMThe "they're back" comment from RTD underneath the Instagram post adds a slightly different complexion to things, no? It's not just "the Doctor", it's some notional "them".
Almost, yes. Some notional "they".
Honestly surprised.
Quote from: BritishHobo on May 15, 2022, 07:01:50 PMIt's Spoiler alert
Tennant and Tate
https://mobile.twitter.com/BBC/status/1525898809410215937
Direct link here if you don't want to click pointlessly via Twitter:
Spoiler alert
https://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/2022/doctor-who-david-tennant-and-catherine-tate-return
Quote from: Weeping Prophet on January 23, 2022, 04:09:59 PMThe 60th anniversary would be an odd way to introduce a new Doctor. Bringing Tennant back for a one-off seems plausible.
I feel vindicated.
Quote from: Replies From View on May 15, 2022, 07:10:06 PMDirect link here if you don't want to click pointlessly via Twitter:
Spoiler alert
https://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/2022/doctor-who-david-tennant-and-catherine-tate-return
Ahh they've fixed it now. When they first tweeted, the link was just directing to an error page.
Getting weird Gazza flashbacks from this photo
(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/cd9e3d77c41b43f8a895d8536379a43db79beecb/99_261_3583_2149/master/3583.jpg?width=465&quality=45&auto=format&fit=max&dpr=2&s=7ed6aa2067d06e51bdfc5af5763a188d)
(https://i2-prod.dailystar.co.uk/incoming/article19347576.ece/ALTERNATES/s1227b/0_httpscdnimagesdailystarcoukdynamic122photos810000900x7381388810)
Can we agree to stop using spoiler tags for this? Seems pointless when it is obvious they'll be promoted to fuck and everybody will know. Just in case somebody disagrees I will continue to use them.
Spoiler alert
RTD quote:
QuoteRussell T Davies, Showrunner says: "They're back! And it looks impossible - first, we announce a new Doctor, and then an old Doctor, along with the wonderful Donna, what on earth is happening? Maybe this is a missing story. Or a parallel world. Or a dream, or a trick, or a flashback. The only thing I can confirm is that it's going to be spectacular, as two of our greatest stars reunite for the battle of a lifetime."
Seems weird, but by heck if RTD knows how to tantalise me:
QuoteRussell T Davies, Showrunner says: Spoiler alert
"They're back! And it looks impossible - first, we announce a new Doctor, and then an old Doctor, along with the wonderful Donna, what on earth is happening? Maybe this is a missing story. Or a parallel world. Or a dream, or a trick, or a flashback. The only thing I can confirm is that it's going to be spectacular, as two of our greatest stars reunite for the battle of a lifetime."
At this point, my faith is in Davies. Can't wait for whatever the fuck is happening.
Also, it amuses me that the BBC simply credit RTD as 'showrunner'. Not even 'incoming' or 'returning'. He's showrunner now and that's that.
That woman on Twitter was telling the truth when she said she saw him in Cardiff then, I guess. I'm gonna start hanging around the Bay so I can spot John Barrowman and Peter Kay before they're announced.
Knew something like this had to be on the cards when Tennant refused to answer the question of whether he was coming back (although I think Tate flat out denied it when asked, so ehh). I will bet anything this is part of a wider plan to build hype around the show again by reminding people of when they actually used to like it, I think we can expect many more similar reveals as we get closer to the 60th. RTD knows what he's doing.
I've seen a couple of other rumours just now which I will spoiler as they're unconfirmed:
Spoiler alert
Some Doctor Who account apparently posted a photo of River Song, and Rachel Talalay has tweeted a photo of her with Matt Lucas, although I've no idea if she's even directing. A River/Nardole appearance would be lovely and unexpected.
Quote from: Weeping Prophet on May 15, 2022, 07:15:03 PMI feel vindicated.
It doesn't say "David Tennant will be playing the 14th Doctor."
Many or most people have been saying Tennant could plausibly be appearing in the 60th special, myself included. A multi-Doctor story for an anniversary is at this stage of the show's history almost inevitable, and Tennant was the one who would inevitably return.
It's the idiotic claim that Whittaker will regenerate into him that people are hoping RTD isn't stupid enough to make happen, and so far hasn't been confirmed. So you will need to keep your fingers crossed a little longer I'm afraid!
There wouldn't be much point in him being the 14th I suppose, given how many opportunities there would be to weave Tennant's Doctor into the story. Even if they couldn't think of a good reason for Ten to appear, they could have him back as Handy.
Spoilered in case anyone is bothered, but no one is avoiding this news.
I've no idea what is going on.
Spoiler alert
Was Gatwa announced before Tennant and Tate were to stop it appearing Tennant was returning full time to the role? Will the special just have Tennant? I suppose we'll soon know if they are appearing in the 60th together if they both appear in the location filming.
Sex Education was renewed for a fourth season back in September. Is it the case that Gatwa won't be free to start filming for some unspecified time to come leaving Tennant and Tate to helm the 60th special?
I feel a bit sorry for Jodie because absolutely nobody is going to give the faintest hint of a fuck about her final episode now, especially as we've got about half a year of further casting announcements, set photos, spectator pics and rumours ahead, but I suppose it's essential to give people something to look forward to, and to build excitement for the series again.
Plus, I suppose this would happen anyway, Jodie just has the bad luck of finishing her run right before the 60th anniversary rather than a random Christmas episode.
Spoiler alert
If RTD is considering an MCU-like affair, hopefully we'll get a self-contained Ten/Donna thing that somehow sets up the 60th but isn't essential to it, so Gatwa gets to have the story to himself, and newbies can start with his episode without worrying about it.
Or maybe just make the first episode of Gatwa's first series a pseudo-pilot and jumping-on point with the new companion being introduced there.
Quote from: Alberon on May 15, 2022, 07:41:28 PMSpoilered in case anyone is bothered, but no one is avoiding this news.
I've no idea what is going on. Spoiler alert
Was Gatwa announced before Tennant and Tate were to stop it appearing Tennant was returning full time to the role? Will the special just have Tennant? I suppose we'll soon know if they are appearing in the 60th together if they both appear in the location filming.
Sex Education was renewed for a fourth season back in September. Is it the case that Gatwa won't be free to start filming for some unspecified time to come leaving Tennant and Tate to helm the 60th special?
That could be where the whole
Spoiler alert
"Tennant as Fourteen" rumour comes from, perhaps - if Tennant is leading the 60th, and Ncuti maybe coming in at the end, maybe somebody involved in leaking got the wrong end of the stick and assumed that meant that Tennant had to be an interim Doctor. When maybe we are just following Ten, having not seen Whittaker regenerate, and then at the end Ten meets Ncuti's Doctor.
This is front page news on the BBC website, we don't need to use spoiler tags.
Quote from: Mister Six on May 15, 2022, 07:44:00 PMI feel a bit sorry for Jodie because absolutely nobody is going to give the faintest hint of a fuck about her final episode now
Worth remembering that she has never seen any Doctor Who before, so probably doesn't give a fuck in the way that you are assuming. It's just an acting gig, she was paid and she'll be moving on.
Quote from: Mister Six on May 15, 2022, 07:44:00 PMJodie just has the bad luck of finishing her run right before the 60th anniversary rather than a random Christmas episode.
And yet it's absolutely brilliant luck for everyone else, which is the main thing (remembering it means nothing to her either way).
Imagine how depressing it'd be for Whittaker and Chibnall to be helming the 60th anniversary, and the air of not giving a fuck the whole endeavour would imbue.
Quote from: BritishHobo on May 15, 2022, 07:46:18 PMThat could be where the whole Spoiler alert
"Tennant as Fourteen" rumour comes from, perhaps - if Tennant is leading the 60th, and Ncuti maybe coming in at the end, maybe somebody involved in leaking got the wrong end of the stick and assumed that meant that Tennant had to be an interim Doctor. When maybe we are just following Ten, having not seen Whittaker regenerate, and then at the end Ten meets Ncuti's Doctor.
I assumed, and still assume, that it was one of the red herrings RTD claimed to be distracting us with.
Ah, true, she probably doesn't give a toss.
Quote from: Kelvin on May 15, 2022, 08:00:25 PMSpoiler alert
This is front page news on the BBC website,
Nobody has to use spoiler tags; they can just expand the ones that have been used.
This can get to fuck, not even Chibnall did anything this bad
Quote from: Norton Canes on May 15, 2022, 08:09:06 PMThis can get to fuck, not even Chibnall did anything this bad
David Tennant regenerates into Tecteun.
It does raise the question actually, whether RTD would consider bringing people back from the eras after his, or whether he's only interested in his own. Imagine a big announcement that Ryan will be back in the 60th.
Tennant and Tate have been audios for Big Finish for a while; I wonder if a few sneaky references to them will be dropped into this new adventure, kickstarting the promised MCU nature of all this.
It would be the best way to not alienate new viewers.
(https://static.standard.co.uk/2022/05/15/19/15163346-f38d823a-9e31-43d2-bc8f-93ffea7851e2.jpg?width=968&auto=webp&quality=50&crop=968%3A645%2Csmart)
Is he gonna' be wearing a wig for his trademark floppy fringe, then?
Quote from: kitsofan34 on May 15, 2022, 08:17:34 PMIs he gonna' be wearing a wig for his trademark floppy fringe, then?
It'll be Season 6b all over again. Series 4b.
Quote from: Mister Six on May 15, 2022, 07:44:00 PMI feel a bit sorry for Jodie because absolutely nobody is going to give the faintest hint of a fuck about her final episode now
I feel a bit sorry for Ncuti because absolutely nobody is going to give the faintest hint of a fuck about his first episode now
Someone on Twitter said it would now be the dream to have Capaldi/Mackie/Lucas and Smith/Coleman announced. Surely the actual dream would be Smith/Gillan/Darvill.
The dream would be for nobody to come back until we've got the new guy established.
Martha and Mickey please.
Quote from: BritishHobo on May 15, 2022, 08:13:29 PMIt does raise the question actually, whether RTD would consider bringing people back from the eras after his, or whether he's only interested in his own. Imagine a big announcement that Ryan will be back in the 60th.
Certainly not anyone who feels very recent, or whose stories feel thoroughly done and dusted.
I can imagine fleeting cameos from anyone in Moffat's time - even if only very brief appearances like the companion illusions in
The Five Doctors, or the heads spinning around as Davison regenerated into C Baker. I can also imagine somebody like Nardole having a larger role.
Nobody from Chibnall's era. It would be exactly like having Rose, Martha and Donna appearing in
The Eleventh Hour, or Clara and Bill in
The Woman Who Fell To Earth. Not going to happen.
Quote from: Replies From View on May 15, 2022, 08:00:53 PMWorth remembering that she has never seen any Doctor Who before, so probably doesn't give a fuck in the way that you are assuming. It's just an acting gig, she was paid and she'll be moving on.
You could say the same of Matt Smith, but I got the impression that he really did give a shit when his run came to an end. Ropey as her episodes have been, Jodie will always be associated with the role now, so I doubt she's quite that flippant.
Quote from: Deanjam on May 15, 2022, 08:26:49 PMThe dream would be for nobody to come back until we've got the new guy established
Instead we get this nightmare. So disappointed. All the excitement and anticipation which kicked in after Ncuti was announced has vanished.
it hasn't actually been confirmed that the 60th is gatwa's first proper episode, has it? it's plausible he may only make a brief appearance, like capaldi in the 50th.
Quote from: Replies From View on May 15, 2022, 08:28:38 PMCertainly not anyone who feels very recent, or whose stories feel thoroughly done and dusted.
I can imagine fleeting cameos from anyone in Moffat's time - even if only very brief appearances like the companion illusions in The Five Doctors, or the heads spinning around as Davison regenerated into C Baker. I can also imagine somebody like Nardole having a larger role.
Nobody from Chibnall's era. It would be exactly like having Rose, Martha and Donna appearing in The Eleventh Hour, or Clara and Bill in The Woman Who Fell To Earth. Not going to happen.
True. I got a bit excited thinking about RTD planning a proper proper special where you get every Doctor and one of their companions - but it would definitely feel really odd having Whittaker running around literally the episode after she's gone.
That plus there'd be absolutely no way in hell he'd ever manage to get Eccleston back.
At least season 11, Chibnall's vision for a new show effectively relaunched, was full of nw characters and ideas. Okay he didn't have the craft to realise it properly but the intention was correct. Genuinely dumbfounded that RTD has done this (even though I saw the rumours lilke everyone else)
Ehhhhh.
We need to keep an eye on the location filming to see if Gatwa shows up or just Tennant alone.
Quote from: Norton Canes on May 12, 2022, 04:29:57 PMMore than anything, having Tennant as an 'interim' Doctor it would be hugely disrespectful to Ncuti Gatwa. "Yeah Ncuti, you're the guy we've been bigging up as the show's future - but sorry, for the special episode we're going to wheel this guy out again". Nah.