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March 28, 2024, 09:32:29 PM

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RTD back for Doctor Who

Started by Jack Shaftoe, September 24, 2021, 04:17:47 PM

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JamesTC

Quote from: Mister Six on January 25, 2022, 02:49:17 PMAw, for a second there I thought we'd be getting even more Who.

There's one more special from Chibnall before RTD's 60th, so I guess those two plus a hypothetical Christmas 2023 special might me what you're thinking of?

Probably getting the three Chibnall "specials" mixed up with the 1 or 2 RTD specials.

Replies From View

Quote from: pigamus on January 25, 2022, 12:41:11 PMYeah, RTD and David Tennant, nobody's gonna tune in for that

It's the long term of the show we're talking about, not the next two years.  Bringing back Tennant because some people fancy him isn't the kind of approach that the show needs right now.  Maybe 20 years from now, Tennant could return as a much older version and it would be interesting, like Tom Baker's curator.  But right now it's the stupidest idea.  RTD would be quicker to cast an American actor than Tennant - that's how out of touch the idea is.

There are a billion other white men who could tick the 2005-2010 dashing David Tennant box if that's the exact vibe that RTD wants - the idea of bringing back Tennant himself is just wishful thinking from those who can't entertain Doctor Who ever working without him.

And that's the point, isn't it.  RTD knows that he needs to refresh the show and push it forwards, to break the idea that only one model of Doctor Who can be popular.  Bringing back Tennant would represent agreeing with those who can't see out of the box.

pigamus

If they're planning some sort of Extended Universe type shenanigans then it might make sense to bring Tennant back and then stick him in one of those

If it's effectively his own show he might be tempted

Mister Six

Why don't you just marry David Tennant if you love him so much?

But yeah, maybe some extended Whoniverse miniseries about the Metacrisis Doctor, or whatever. I think RTD knows that the core show needs to appeal to kids, though, and anyone who was 10 when Tennant left the role is now 22, so anything involving him in a bigger role than just an anniversary special will be extended universe only deal.

Even then, though, you risk diluting the main show if you've got multiple series about The Doctor zipping about in a TARDIS. So I imagine most - if not all - spin-offs will focus on totally different conceits, a la Torchwood (team of black ops folks take on aliens) and SJA (kid-friendly action romp in which youngsters and Sarah Jane save the world).

I just hope Who doesn't get bogged down with backdoor pilots.

Zetetic

The best thing RTD could do now is full reboot, harder than last time.

Maybe five minutes of salting the earth first where it's revealed that in the older serieseseses that the TARDIS ran on the ritualised lethal abuse of the vulnerable, and then move onto something without all the guff that's been dredged up since he left.

pigamus


Replies From View

QuoteDespite making a handful of cameo appearances in series two and series three, Catherine Tate's Donna was a focal character in series four.

They can't even be fucked to get the true bits right.


QuoteThe Tenth Doctor somehow managed to regenerate back into himself, the Twelfth Doctor subconsciously regenerated into a person from his past and even the Master chose to regenerate into a younger man.

The Twelfth Doctor became the Thirteenth Doctor, played by somebody who had never been in Doctor Who before, and what's that guff about the Master?  What choice is that referring to?


My brain hurts.

I wouldn't have a problem with Tennant playing the 14th Doctor if it's for a short period to get casual eyes back on the show and it's handled with a deftness of touch.

Whether bringing him back is regressive and coasting on past glories entirely depends on how well RTD handles it. It's an idea that's not really been explored before beyond the vagueness of the Curator. I quite like the idea of the Doctor being so strung out and disillusioned that she regenerates into a familiar body because it feels comfortable and safe, yet because it's the Doctor it'll be anything but. A lesson that you can't escape the march of progress by trying to return to a happier, Rose-tinted past, perhaps.

Alberon

Quote from: Huxleys Babkins on January 25, 2022, 04:36:52 PMWhether bringing him back is regressive and coasting on past glories entirely depends on how well RTD handles it. It's an idea that's not really been explored before beyond the vagueness of the Curator. I quite like the idea of the Doctor being so strung out and disillusioned that she regenerates into a familiar body because it feels comfortable and safe, yet because it's the Doctor it'll be anything but. A lesson that you can't escape the march of progress by trying to return to a happier, Rose-tinted past, perhaps.

Regenerates into Billie Piper!

Mister Six

Quote from: Huxleys Babkinsthat she regenerates into a familiar body because it feels comfortable and safe, yet because it's the Doctor it'll be anything but. A lesson that you can't escape the march of progress by trying to return to a happier, Rose-tinted past, perhaps.

You've almost sold me on this, but it'd be better as a Big Finish alternate universe audio or something. It's too tangled up in continuity and shit that won't mean anything to anyone who wasn't watching the show 12 years ago (which is 100% of the children in attendance) to work as the refresh that the show needs.

The 60th complicates things, but what RTD needs - and I'm certain he knows this - is to just have a bold new start with a brand new Doctor. No continuity, no worries. Same as Rose, basically. Maybe even skipping all the post-regen shite and just having The Doctor turn up, newly regenerated but up and running, in the middle of the new companion's story.

I'm pretty sure that's what the first episode of his series proper will be. The 60th might be a bit more continuity heavy, but nothing more complex than Tennant and Smith turning up as their Doctors. Even then, that might not happen - the joy of a crossover is in seeing the familiar elements clashing with one another. Putting a brand new Doc among the returning elements threatens to drown them.

Alberon

Surprise five or ten minute special Christmas 2022 covering the regeneration leaving the new Doctor ready for the 60th special.

I can dream, can't I?

daf

Quote from: Zetetic on January 25, 2022, 04:18:59 PMThe best thing RTD could do now is full reboot, harder than last time.


Mister Six


mjwilson

Quote from: Replies From View on January 25, 2022, 04:35:59 PMThey can't even be fucked to get the true bits right.


The Twelfth Doctor became the Thirteenth Doctor, played by somebody who had never been in Doctor Who before, and what's that guff about the Master?  What choice is that referring to?


My brain hurts.

They mean, I guess, Matt Smith regenerates into Capaldi who was in Fires of Pompeii, and the Jacobi Master chooses to regenerate into Simm.

Replies From View

Well it's still bollocks that Donna had cameos in series 2 and 3.

BritishHobo

In a way, the full-of-mistakes tabloid rumour mill articles feel like a bit of a throwback to the RTD days and all. I was on IMDb and DigitalSpy for the first four series, and it seemed to be a much more prevalent thing, some fucker who'd never watched the show tossing out an article about how Billie Piper was going to be the first female Doctor.

mjwilson

Quote from: Replies From View on January 25, 2022, 05:28:52 PMWell it's still bollocks that Donna had cameos in series 2 and 3.

Not far off though. She has a cameo in season 2, at the end of Doomsday.

So you just have to stretch to calling The Runaway Bride a cameo appearance (which I don't think is really correct) then you're basically there.

BritishHobo

This week I have, far too late, begun working through RTD's other work. I watched Years and Years and A Very British Scandal when they were on, but that's it. I've I've now finished Queer Eye, and am midway through Cucumber/Banana, then moving on to It's A Sin. Might try and watch some of his older soap/high-concept stuff after that.

It's all making me very excited to see what he does with New New Who. It's always clear that he's a man who thinks very very carefully about all aspects of storytelling, and it's going to be so interesting to see how the post-RTD years of Who, especially Chibnall's Who, inform what he does with it. The Rose approach worked so well because it had been off the air for so long that it had absolutely no presence in the minds of newer viewers. I can remember kids my age being absolutely blown away by this 'new' character, gasping at the lines about him possibly being a father, all feeling like his relationship with Rose was groundbreaking, because they'd never seen this alien connect with a human before. I can't see that approach would work in the same way now the new show feels like it's been on forever. But I have faith that RTD will know exactly how to do it.

Replies From View

Quote from: mjwilson on January 25, 2022, 05:42:58 PMNot far off though. She has a cameo in season 2, at the end of Doomsday.

So you just have to stretch to calling The Runaway Bride a cameo appearance (which I don't think is really correct) then you're basically there.

It's also bollocks to call the introduction of an as-yet unknown character a "cameo".

I wouldn't even call Coleman's appearances in the first half of series 7 "cameos".  Cameos are for recognised characters who come back.

mjwilson

Quote from: BritishHobo on January 25, 2022, 05:53:19 PMThis week I have, far too late, begun working through RTD's other work. I watched Years and Years and A Very British Scandal when they were on, but that's it. I've I've now finished Queer Eye

RTD considers a re-titling.

mjwilson

Quote from: Replies From View on January 25, 2022, 06:02:53 PMIt's also bollocks to call the introduction of an as-yet unknown character a "cameo".

I wouldn't even call Coleman's appearances in the first half of series 7 "cameos".  Cameos are for recognised characters who come back.

I dunno, Tate was already famous when she appeared (although not as Donna obviously), I think that's fair enough.

Replies From View

It says Donna - the character - had cameo appearances when she didn't, because she hadn't been established yet.  Why somersault through fire to defend something so shit.

An article that ends like this doesn't need defending:

QuoteIf true, this would be huge for the show and personally I'd be very interested to see how the writers go about re-introducing these actors to the show.


Imagine being paid to write it.

mjwilson

Quote from: Replies From View on January 25, 2022, 06:14:17 PMIt says Donna - the character - had cameo appearances when she didn't, because she hadn't been established yet.  Why somersault through fire to defend something so shit.

I just don't think you have to be an existing character to have a cameo. Did Samuel L Jackson not have a cameo in the post-credits of Iron Man? Are all those Stan Lee cameos, where he's playing a new character every time, not cameos?

Quote from: Replies From View on January 25, 2022, 06:14:17 PMAn article that ends like this doesn't need defending:

Well that's certainly true.

Alberon

Does it count as a cameo when it's just a teaser for the next episode?

pigamus

Quote from: Replies From View on January 25, 2022, 06:14:17 PMIt says Donna - the character - had cameo appearances when she didn't, because she hadn't been established yet.  Why somersault through fire to defend something so shit.

An article that ends like this doesn't need defending:


Imagine being paid to write it.

The Plymouth Herald would never lie to me, do you understand, never 

Mister Six

Quote from: Replies From View on January 25, 2022, 06:02:53 PMCameos are for recognised characters who come back.

Dunno about that. Patrick Moore's appearance in The Eleventh Hour is clearly a cameo.

But yeah, it does seem odd to classify a tease for an upcoming episode as a cameo appearance.

Replies From View

Quote from: mjwilson on January 25, 2022, 06:23:07 PMI just don't think you have to be an existing character to have a cameo. Did Samuel L Jackson not have a cameo in the post-credits of Iron Man? Are all those Stan Lee cameos, where he's playing a new character every time, not cameos?

I don't know about Marvel stuff, so can't comment on Iron Man.  If Samuel L. Jackson was appearing as himself - an established actor being himself rather than an as-yet unknown character - then I'd agree it was a cameo.  But that's not the case with Donna Noble.

I've seen Stan Lee's cameos in the Spider-Man films and the focus is on Stan Lee playing a cameo, not the cameo appearance of one of his characters.  Donna Noble does not have a cameo at any point in series 2 or 3. 

If her role in The End of Time had been shorter, only a very brief appearance, then I'd argue that would have counted as a Donna Noble cameo, because she was already established and making a reappearance.  But her part was too extended for that.

Replies From View

Quote from: Mister Six on January 25, 2022, 06:38:15 PMDunno about that. Patrick Moore's appearance in The Eleventh Hour is clearly a cameo.

He's being an established figure - himself.  Like the Stan Lee cameos mentioned above, we know who the fuck it is.  It's not Patrick Moore's fictional character who's having a cameo appearance, it's famous space-peeper Patrick Moore himself.

If the article had said Catherine Tate herself had had a cameo appearance at the end of series 2 I'd be disagreeing with it less.  But it's saying Donna did.


It's a very bad article, and you are all very bad people for playing devil's advocate on this.


Midas

maybe whittaker will regenerate back into tennant for some reason, and in the special he'll have to regenerate back through the incarnations (matt smith > jon culshaw > jodie whittaker) in order "to fix time" because "this is impossible" so that jodie can regenerate properly at the end.