Main Menu

Tip jar

If you like CaB and wish to support it, you can use PayPal or KoFi. Thank you, and I hope you continue to enjoy the site - Neil.

Buy Me a Coffee at ko-fi.com

Support CaB

Recent

Welcome to Cook'd and Bomb'd. Please login or sign up.

March 29, 2024, 12:36:16 AM

Login with username, password and session length

RTD back for Doctor Who

Started by Jack Shaftoe, September 24, 2021, 04:17:47 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

purlieu

I would like to think he'll be treated as a bit of a poisoned chalice after this and will hopefully never be invited back. That, or the show would have to be in a ludicrously poor state for someone to say "hey, that guy who was in charge of the least popular era of the show, let's get him back!"

Replies From View

Quote from: purlieu on April 12, 2022, 10:53:47 AMI would like to think he'll be treated as a bit of a poisoned chalice after this and will hopefully never be invited back. That, or the show would have to be in a ludicrously poor state for someone to say "hey, that guy who was in charge of the least popular era of the show, let's get him back!"

I don't feel for certain that everyone else sees it our way, though.  We are an echo chamber.

Has it been the least popular era of the show?  Do we just feel that because we have hated it?  And for other people, is Chibnall actively bad, or simply not up to the standard of RTD and Moffat?

He was asked back multiple times during RTD and Moffat's time, he was showrunning Torchwood; I definitely feel like I'm in something of a dual reality situation where others are seeing something I'm not, and vice versa.

I'd say he probably knows where the bodies are hidden, but a deluded guy who's managed to manipulate people and blackmail his way to the top would have a modicum of passion at least.

It's very baffling.

Alberon

It seems the least popular of the modern era. The ratings have slid dramatically since the first Whittaker season.

We hate his work for clear reasons, but it is more a case of him being crashingly average. His best is an average episode of Stargate SG-1. One of the areas he's below average is dialogue which he has no ear for. RTD and Moffatt are hard acts to follow, add the all-consuming nature of the job I mention in the other thread and you can see why most qualified people do not want to do it.

Torchwood was probably partly to prepare him for taking over and after Moffatt he was probably the only one considered qualified who would do it.

Midas

Quote from: Replies From View on April 12, 2022, 10:58:30 AMHe was asked back multiple times during RTD and Moffat's time, he was showrunning Torchwood; I definitely feel like I'm in something of a dual reality situation where others are seeing something I'm not, and vice versa.

I'd say he probably knows where the bodies are hidden, but a deluded guy who's managed to manipulate people and blackmail his way to the top would have a modicum of passion at least.

It's very baffling.

It's "just" nepotism. They gave him work because they're mates. See also: Big Finish and the BBC Books range.

Natnar

Quote from: Replies From View on April 12, 2022, 10:58:30 AMI don't feel for certain that everyone else sees it our way, though.  We are an echo chamber.

Has it been the least popular era of the show?  Do we just feel that because we have hated it?  And for other people, is Chibnall actively bad, or simply not up to the standard of RTD and Moffat?

He was asked back multiple times during RTD and Moffat's time, he was showrunning Torchwood; I definitely feel like I'm in something of a dual reality situation where others are seeing something I'm not, and vice versa.

I'd say he probably knows where the bodies are hidden, but a deluded guy who's managed to manipulate people and blackmail his way to the top would have a modicum of passion at least.

It's very baffling.

I think Jodie's Doctor is the most unpopular of the modern Doctors and it's nothing to do with her being a woman. I wonder if Chibnall has just been a placeholder showrunner until RTD wanted to come back.

Replies From View

It always felt like Chibnall came in because nobody else wanted to do it, but I don't think the plan has always been for RTD to return.

I'd guess the BBC wanted to keep going with the previous production method (as per RTD and Moffat) for as long as it would last, and under Chibnall they've come to realise it's a mode of production that has no future.  If other people had been leaping over themselves to take over from Moffat, things would have worked out differently.  Likewise if Chibnall had kept ratings high, the BBC would have been happy to keep chugging along indefinitely.

The current situation smacks of RTD stepping in to rescue the show after Chibnall drove it into the ground, but I suspect it's more that the previous production model was no longer tenable, and to keep the show going RTD needed to step in with Bad Wolf Productions bringing in more money and presumably a more dedicated, focused team behind the scenes.  It was always going to be necessary once the well of 1970s/80s fans willing to run the show ran dry.  So I'm contradicting myself now - maybe it has been the plan for a long time after all.

BritishHobo

For laziness' sake:

Quote from: BritishHobo on April 17, 2022, 09:50:13 PMThis BBC News article states that the next Doctor 'is expected to be revealed in the coming weeks.'

olliebean

How far into the future do you have to go before the weeks stop coming?

Alberon

I suppose production is starting soon so they can't hold it back.

Rev+

Quote from: Replies From View on April 12, 2022, 10:58:30 AMI don't feel for certain that everyone else sees it our way, though.  We are an echo chamber.

Has it been the least popular era of the show?  Do we just feel that because we have hated it?  And for other people, is Chibnall actively bad, or simply not up to the standard of RTD and Moffat?

He's someone who can turn out a telly script that vaguely hits the right notes and is the right length.  He'd probably turn out solid episodes of Matlock or something, but he's out of his depth running a series.  He was out of his depth with Broadchurch beyond the first series.

I do kind of feel for him a bit, because he must know he's done a shit job.  Not only has he followed two of our best TV writers, but he was almost certainly instructed to make the thing more age-appropriate again.  It had become ridiculously grim by the end of Moffat's run, which was seen as sort of acceptable as the audience of the reboot had grown up with it.  It really needed to snap back at some point, and Chibnall has carried the can for that.

Someone more talented would have pulled it off a lot better, of course.

The Roofdog

Quote from: Rev+ on April 19, 2022, 11:42:40 PMI do kind of feel for him a bit, because he must know he's done a shit job.  Not only has he followed two of our best TV writers, but he was almost certainly instructed to make the thing more age-appropriate again.  It had become ridiculously grim by the end of Moffat's run, which was seen as sort of acceptable as the audience of the reboot had grown up with it.  It really needed to snap back at some point, and Chibnall has carried the can for that.

If I have one positive thing to say about the Chibnall era it's all concerning his first series, it did feel different and sort of refreshing to have a series of one-off stories with no returning villains that had so little connection to what had come before. I honestly wish he'd stuck with it and tried to perfect it rather than the disastrous road he went down. I'm not even necessarily talking about the Timeless Child bollocks, all of his Dalek stories are like watching paint dry.

Replies From View

Quote from: Rev+ on April 19, 2022, 11:42:40 PMHe's someone who can turn out a telly script that vaguely hits the right notes and is the right length.  He'd probably turn out solid episodes of Matlock or something, but he's out of his depth running a series.  He was out of his depth with Broadchurch beyond the first series.

I do kind of feel for him a bit, because he must know he's done a shit job.  Not only has he followed two of our best TV writers, but he was almost certainly instructed to make the thing more age-appropriate again.  It had become ridiculously grim by the end of Moffat's run, which was seen as sort of acceptable as the audience of the reboot had grown up with it.  It really needed to snap back at some point, and Chibnall has carried the can for that.

Someone more talented would have pulled it off a lot better, of course.

If he was instructed to make the show age-appropriate, then he took that as an invitation to make a version that was impenetrable in its basic storytelling, and loaded with gibberish about an ancient backstory.

Because Jodie Whittaker had nothing else to go on, she has been playing her version of the Doctor as a breathless supply teacher out of her depth.  Maybe on some surface level that's made it feel more like a kids show than it did under RTD, but it's not.


Replies From View

Quote from: The Roofdog on April 20, 2022, 01:06:27 AMIf I have one positive thing to say about the Chibnall era it's all concerning his first series, it did feel different and sort of refreshing to have a series of one-off stories with no returning villains that had so little connection to what had come before. I honestly wish he'd stuck with it and tried to perfect it rather than the disastrous road he went down. I'm not even necessarily talking about the Timeless Child bollocks, all of his Dalek stories are like watching paint dry.

It's his use of the Master I've found most aggrieving.  Simultaneously baffling to anyone new and angering to anyone familiar with the show, who felt the character needed more of a break than eleven episodes after Moffat's series 10 finale.

notjosh

Also, for all the chat about how great it was that he wanted to return the show to its historical education roots (I too thought this was a sound idea), how inspiring that our lesson on Madame Ching consisted entirely of:

"You're Madame Ching! Wow!"

Replies From View

Quote from: notjosh on April 20, 2022, 07:27:14 AMAlso, for all the chat about how great it was that he wanted to return the show to its historical education roots (I too thought this was a sound idea), how inspiring that our lesson on Madame Ching consisted entirely of:

"You're Madame Ching! Wow!"

The problem with having such a shite showrunner / head writer is that when things like that don't work out, it ends up reflecting badly on the experiment rather than the idiot who can't do it properly.

There will most definitely be people around arguing that having a woman Doctor has now been proven unsuccessful, for example.

Mister Six

Quote from: Replies From View on April 20, 2022, 11:06:12 AMThe problem with having such a shite showrunner / head writer is that when things like that don't work out, it ends up reflecting badly on the experiment rather than the idiot who can't do it properly.

There will most definitely be people around arguing that having a woman Doctor has now been proven unsuccessful, for example.

There absolutely are, and people saying the problem is that it's "too woke" in general, even though Doctor Who under Chibnall is - at least in front of the camera - more conservative than it's been since 2005. It's just that before, all the anti-racist, anti-misogynist, anti-LGBT+phobic, anti-authoritarian stuff was surrounded by clever, fun writing that sugared the pill. Now right-wing thickos aren't enjoying it any more, they assume it's because of the politics within the show, rather than the show just being shite.

JamesTC

Quote from: Replies From View on April 20, 2022, 11:06:12 AMThere will most definitely be people around arguing that having a woman Doctor has now been proven unsuccessful, for example.

It didn't help that any criticism of the show is denounced as sexism or some such by a vocal number. Thankfully none on here. For a few years, I avoided even speaking of the show after I had to explain to somebody why I don't watch it anymore because they wrongly assumed it was due to a female lead.

It does seem over the years that this sort of backlash to a backlash has died down. The days of an all female Ghostbusters movie being the most important movie of a generation because Sony wants us to think that are long gone. Campaigns like the one behind that film are seemingly far more transparent to people now.

I do feel that more and more over the last year, the ire has been directed at Chibnall's feet. Criticism still seems so apologetic: "Doctor Who is so absolutely terrible these days... but Jodie Whittaker is great" and the like. The latest special feels like a watershed moment. The amount of prominent Who fans with knives out for Doctor Who, people who previously would never have a bad word to say about any Doctor Who except lovingly. The viewing figures seems to have really worried some that they can't grin and bear it.

It's probably due to how dull and low-stakes the run from the end of Flux to now has been. Everything into Flux felt like it was building toward something, but there was no real pay off at the end, other than the revelation that the Doctor is going to die.

The 2009 specials covered Ten trying to outrun his fate, then confronting it face on. In comparison, Thirteen's farewell tour feels like she's just drifting, listlessly to a death she can barely be arsed to acknowledge. No stakes for herself, no stakes for Dan or Yaz. There's absolutely nothing to care about.

We've now got ~60 minutes of television left for these characters and even the most generous of critics can't escape the realisation that if nothing interesting has happened to them yet it probably never will.

Malcy

I'm hoping RTD gives as UNIT, a spin-off with Kate, Ace, Tegan and other cameos.

Janet Fielding has apparently hinted that they aren't the only 2 appearing which I guessed might be the case.

JamesTC

Quote from: Malcy on April 20, 2022, 05:49:16 PMJanet Fielding has apparently hinted that they aren't the only 2 appearing which I guessed might be the case.

I saw a thing on Gallifrey Base which might be bollocks saying that...

Spoiler alert
...Bradley Walsh, Colin Baker and Sylvester McCoy were all in a quickly deleted Instagram picture together in Cardiff.
[close]

Replies From View

This will actually backfire if it feels so much like a sickly sugary Doctor Who Anniversary Special that the 60th Anniversary can't find its own identity or the idea of yet more of this stuff makes people feel nauseous.

Maybe it'll allow RTD to do something more understated for the 60th though.  Like The Day of the Doctor didn't need to feature past Doctors because The Name of the Doctor kind of covered them, and The Five(ish) Doctors Reboot celebrated them, maybe Chibnall getting balls-deep in classic companion/Doctor overload will free RTD up somewhat.

Mister Six

Quote from: JamesTC on April 20, 2022, 06:28:18 PMI saw a thing on Gallifrey Base which might be bollocks saying that...

Spoiler alert
...Bradley Walsh, Colin Baker and Sylvester McCoy were all in a quickly deleted Instagram picture together in Cardiff.
[close]

Maybe they were just getting together for
Spoiler alert
a joint prostate check.
[close]

Malcy

Quote from: JamesTC on April 20, 2022, 06:28:18 PMI saw a thing on Gallifrey Base which might be bollocks saying that...

Spoiler alert
...Bradley Walsh, Colin Baker and Sylvester McCoy were all in a quickly deleted Instagram picture together in Cardiff.
[close]

Spoiler alert
Bradley definitely in it. Can understand McCoy with the Ace connection but not Baker.
[close]

Malcy

How I would love a new Doctor to be all confused post-regeneration and have Ace & Tegan by his/her side though. That would be a nice lead in.

Replies From View

Quote from: Malcy on April 20, 2022, 07:26:00 PM
Spoiler alert
Bradley definitely in it. Can understand McCoy with the Ace connection but not Baker.
[close]

Spoiler alert
There are some things even a 2:1 aspect ratio aren't wide enough for.
[close]

jamiefairlie

Quote from: Malcy on April 20, 2022, 07:26:53 PMHow I would love a new Doctor to be all confused post-regeneration and have Ace & Tegan by his/her side though. That would be a nice lead in.

And fall in love with them both and be all tormented and that

olliebean

Quote from: JamesTC on April 20, 2022, 06:28:18 PMI saw a thing on Gallifrey Base which might be bollocks saying that...

Spoiler alert
...Bradley Walsh, Colin Baker and Sylvester McCoy were all in a quickly deleted Instagram picture together in Cardiff.
[close]

I saw a rumour on Reddit, from someone who'd been getting other things right, that there'd be

Spoiler alert
80s Doctors in it.
[close]

McDead

But surely they'd be

Spoiler alert
all fat and old and that
[close]

Mister Six

Do we have a rough idea of when the centenary episode will air? Some time in the autumn? I'm just itching to fuck Chibnall into a skip for eternity. Absolutely cannot wait.

JamesTC

Quote from: Mister Six on April 20, 2022, 11:15:28 PMDo we have a rough idea of when the centenary episode will air? Some time in the autumn? I'm just itching to fuck Chibnall into a skip for eternity. Absolutely cannot wait.

October is when all the centenary stuff is supposed to be airing.