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March 28, 2024, 09:40:52 PM

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Elden Ring

Started by Chedney Honks, June 10, 2021, 02:01:37 PM

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Noodle Lizard

Quote from: druss on July 07, 2022, 02:05:22 PMHaving the strangest time on Malenia, absolutely annihilated her first phase on my first attempt and was thinking that there must be a second phase because there is no way anyone could get stuck on that first phase. Sure enough, second phase came along and I did quite okay getting her to half health. Thought to myself I'll have her down in 3 or 4 attempts. Got to phase 2 on two subsequent attempts, on both times had plenty of flasks but just made two silly mistakes so thought I'd have her on the 4th.

I've now lost count but am probably on around 30-40 attempts and haven't got past her first phase since. Never encountered a boss that actually gets harder the more I attempt it! That spin attack insta kills me every time.

You're not the only one who's had that kind of experience! She's quite deceptive in that she doesn't have many of the trademark "difficult boss" features. She's not massive or especially tanky, she doesn't move too fast or teleport, she's parryable and staggerable and doesn't really have any spammy AoE attacks. All of that lures you into a false sense of security - she's finely tuned enough to seem beatable, but the odds are still massively in her favour on account of perhaps just two difficult to avoid attacks that will immediately cancel you. There's a bit of RNG luck involved too.

That said, you can reliably survive the waterfowl dance with a bit of practice. The technique I found was to absolutely book it away from her any time she jumps in the air. If you're quick enough, that'll spare you the first flurry (which is the most fatal), and then you can roll into the second and third ones, or even just tank them if you're nails enough. The most important thing is to run away from the first one, so always be prepared to do that - especially if she hasn't done it in a while.

I also think the Blasphemous Blade is secretly a bit overpowered against her, for its staggering capability if nothing else. On my first run, I got her in 6 using that (with the help of a Mimic, mind you) but I struggled on NG+ using other weapons, despite being a much higher level. Fought her countless times as a summon too, it's a really fun fight to learn. Good luck!

druss

#781
Not sure what to do now, I've just become Elden Lord and am level 149 which seems probably balanced enough for the fight with Malenia but I don't know whether I might just start a new character and explore every nook and cranny so that I'm level 200 odd by the time I'm facing her.

Have read that using the rivers of blood sword makes it a piece of piss, might just do that although hopefully it won't rob me of the famed adrenaline rush of beating a hard boss.

Edit: And done! Rivers of Blood did the trick. Still took a dozen or so attempts but once I got to the second phase it was a piece of cake as I summoned Mimic tear for that part. Had so many flasks left that it didn't really feel that exhilarating as it was clear I was going to do it unless I had some bad luck or made a mistake. First phase was RNG though, managed to get her down before she did the spinny bullshit.

Noodle Lizard

Good job! I actually tried RoB for my NG+ attempt but it didn't seem to work all that well, maybe because I didn't have a big magic bar to allow me to use the special ability too many times. I actually can't remember what worked in the end, I tried a new weapon almost every attempt, but I think it was my trusty Bloodhound Fang +10. Maliketh's Black Blade was doing good damage too but, again, without the Mind investment to use the skill it basically becomes a big slow heap of shite once you're out of magic.

If you still want to play her, she's very fun to co-op. It's especially funny being summoned over and over again by someone who's clearly at their wits end after who knows how many attempts.

druss

Bloodhound Fang was my entire first playthrough (powerstanced with the weapon you get from the big dude by one of the bonfires in Stormveil) but I couldn't get her down with it. I respecced for RoB and had like 30 mind plus a couple of blue flasks, found I wasn't having to heal at all on the first phase and it was basically just a case of hopefully avoiding spin insta death.

Rolling sorcerer for second play through. I'm still not completely sure if I want to spoil myself on all the different endings and npcs yet, I missed so much on first play through but I might look at a few spoiler lite guides this time.

I did horse it all the way to Caelid for meteorite staff and rock chucking spell, first time I tried sorcerer I did it blind and really struggled but can already tell this is going to be very different with that staff and spell. I'll try to learn how to dodge that spinny attack on this run, I did see a video of some guy no hitting her and he seemed to be able to cancel that attack by circling underneath her.

Fry

Melania nearly did it for me, got there in the end though. Ended up using moonveil in my right hand and Hounslows whip in my off hand for that lovely stagger+bleed to solo the first phase. Mimic tear came out in the second phase. Took me a good 50 attempts though.

Ended up smoking for help with elden beast though. At that point I was just done. It had been 30 attempts by that point. I was sick of fighting Radogan. I just wanted to be finished with the game.

That was about two weeks ago, already started a new game. Not NG+ though, I want to try different builds and weapons and think I'll be more likely to if I stumble across them naturally again.also excited to try and actually understand the lore myself (beyond the basic stuff) before getting stuck in the YT rabbit hole.

Noodle Lizard

Quote from: Fry on July 08, 2022, 08:06:05 AMEnded up smoking for help with elden beast though. At that point I was just done. It had been 30 attempts by that point. I was sick of fighting Radogan. I just wanted to be finished with the game.

I agree, that last fight was a shame. I've played through twice and Elden Beast just feels wrong. It's not that it's especially difficult, but it's simply not well-designed. I agree with others who've said it makes no sense that you can't use your horse, for instance, since most of the fight is spent running around this massive arena to catch up with wherever this big luminescent willy of a boss has decided to teleport - all whilst dodging annoying AoE attacks which can easily wipe you out if you're not careful. Not only that, but there doesn't seem to be any weapon or technique that will deal consistently good damage against him, you just have to endure it.

It'd be one thing if this was a self-contained boss, but having to beat Radagon again each time just to get to it not only makes it even more annoying, but also ruins the otherwise great Radagon fight by proxy.

Thursday

It's weird I spent most of my first playthrough as Strength/Intelligence build looking enviously at Faith and Arcane builds which all looked amazing, then on my 2nd playthrough finding the Faith and Arcane a little bit underwhelming. Feels a bit "grass is greener" no matter what you spec into. I also just don't have the patience to really put a lot of thought into "builds"

Kind of just want to start on New Game Plus 2 or 3 with max level on everything and fully upgraded so I can play with all the toys in a not too easy but not too challenging environment.

Crenners

I spoiled this by doing Comet Azur on everything in my first run and can't be bothered fighting anything properly now.

Chollis

yeah I tried to play it again with several different builds but Blazing Bushido was just the best

Thursday

In the interest of good game balance Comet Azur, and that ridiculous rune farm probably need nerfs, but I will be sending death threats if they do. It's too late to go back now.

druss

Quote from: Thursday on July 08, 2022, 07:00:22 PMIn the interest of good game balance Comet Azur, and that ridiculous rune farm probably need nerfs, but I will be sending death threats if they do. It's too late to go back now.
Hopefully they will kindly wait until I've finished my sorcerer playthrough as I have not experienced this yet.

Cuellar

Played this to fuck now and I've come to the conclusion that the open world doesn't add anything

Noodle Lizard

Quote from: Cuellar on September 21, 2022, 10:17:12 PMPlayed this to fuck now and I've come to the conclusion that the open world doesn't add anything

This was my first proper go at a Soulsborne game, so I started with the open world, but I've since completed Bloodborne and Dark Souls 3 and there really didn't feel like too much of a difference - especially since I mostly used graces/bonfires to travel long distances anyway.

I suppose the main difference in Elden Ring is being able to access 80% of the map right from the off, but you wouldn't really want to do that unless you were after something very specific on a subsequent playthrough. There's still a pretty clear progression in terms of difficulty - I'd assume most people cleared the areas in more or less the same order.

That said, I think the open world in Elden Ring is fine and it's probably a good thing that it isn't too much of a departure from the previous games. Really curious to see how they build the DLC into it - hopefully it's not just an entire new area popping up on the map.

Inspector Norse

I really liked the open world bit, the trepidation and wonder of coming into a new area then quickly spamming RUN THE FUCK AWAY when you saw an enemy way too high level for you. Just that actual openness rather than the more labyrinthine worlds of previous Souls games. I got a bit bored towards the endgame when the areas were smaller and tighter and more linear.

oggyraiding

Would a semi-open world structure have been better? Kind of like Grand Theft Auto 3's islands, you start on one island which you can explore freely, and doing story stuff unlocks the next island. That way they can better design the difficulty curve and resource distribution. In my time with ER, there were runs where I'd have shitloads of high level smithing stones, but very few lower level ones as I unintentionally went to higher level areas before finding the lower level mines. Having the world separated into 'islands' you can distribute smithing stone levels 1-4 in starting 'island', 5-8 in next one etc.

Take my game design theory with a pinch of salt, I'm shit at the game, so I'm trying to pretend it's the fault of the game's structure instead of my shitness.

Chollis

no, this game is perfect

madhair60

Elden Ring's structure is fine the way it is imo. There are so many linear Souls/like games that it's nice to get one that's so wide open. It's one of the game's biggest strengths for me

GoblinAhFuckScary

been trying to play this with my housemate and the open-world really does bog my interest a bit

sort of stopped playing games regularly over a decade ago as my adhd worsened and i just didn't find videogames rewarding enough. playing bloodborne recently was a bit of a revelation in terms of keeping me fixated and its straightforward linearity was certainly an element in keeping me driven, along with every single element just appealing to me so much

elements of elden ring are so wonderful and genuinely jaw-dropping, but it feels overly complex and stuffed and hard to focus on for me. only really managing to enjoy when my housemate is guiding me

The Crumb

The problem with the open world for me is it didn't feel like a place your character was rooted or living in. The classic From tropes of a zombified populace, scant remnants of civilisation and a not-really alive main character made the whole thing feel like set dressing. The locations themselves didn't really present unique challenges to navigate or survive, just different flavours of poison goo. I didn't care about the fate of the lands between because it was just a bunch of ruins anyway.

Thursday

I like the open world, I don't think the more traditional Souls dungeons are the most interesting part, they feel too familiar. The vast mysterious landscape of Liurnia is the heart of the game, although I will admit it does fall down when you realize every area has the same structure and types of locations but palette swapped.

It kind of made me want a Souls game in a world that's less fucked, ostensibly, it kind of is compared to Souls games, but in practice the world doesn't really reflect that.

I kind of want Fromsoft combat in a world that's more like Elder Scrolls, or The Witcher. Functioning towns, and societies and people who try to live peaceful lives that you can have more in-depth interactions with.

The Crumb

That's a good point about picking up on the structure, another part of why I ended up more or less disliking the game is that the repetition of elements over the bloated runtime made it impossible to ignore various world quirks to the point they hurt immersion. Like the fact the verticality in a lot of areas is not at all organic and relies on a ridiculous abundance of lifts and giant ladders, or all the lakes and rivers being a foot deep

The Guppy

My favourite thing about the open world is that "I don't think I'm supposed to be here yet" feeling. The enemies are rock hard and you don't know if it's because they're rock hard, or because you're not supposed to be here yet. Then you find a crafting stone that's five levels higher than anything in your inventory and you know you're not supposed to be here yet. But you keep moving forward because you're a hero and you can go where you fucking want.

You can get some of that in their older games, especially Dark Souls 1, but you're less likely to stumble into it just from mooching around.

The downside is it makes the NPC quests even harder, because they hang out in the places you're supposed to be, and then they move to where you should be next. If you've already completed the area they moved to, you might never see them again.

GoblinAhFuckScary

Quote from: The Guppy on September 23, 2022, 09:40:21 AMMy favourite thing about the open world is that "I don't think I'm supposed to be here yet" feeling. The enemies are rock hard and you don't know if it's because they're rock hard, or because you're not supposed to be here yet. Then you find a crafting stone that's five levels higher than anything in your inventory and you know you're not supposed to be here yet. But you keep moving forward because you're a hero and you can go where you fucking want.

You can get some of that in their older games, especially Dark Souls 1, but you're less likely to stumble into it just from mooching around.

The downside is it makes the NPC quests even harder, because they hang out in the places you're supposed to be, and then they move to where you should be next. If you've already completed the area they moved to, you might never see them again.

see this translates to tiresome meandering to me

Timothy

Quote from: The Guppy on September 23, 2022, 09:40:21 AMMy favourite thing about the open world is that "I don't think I'm supposed to be here yet" feeling. The enemies are rock hard and you don't know if it's because they're rock hard, or because you're not supposed to be here yet. Then you find a crafting stone that's five levels higher than anything in your inventory and you know you're not supposed to be here yet. But you keep moving forward because you're a hero and you can go where you fucking want.

Yeah I really enjoyed it that as well. And there's so much to discover. From tiny dungeons to smaller sidequests. I loved this game and it's open world.

Noodle Lizard

Quote from: GoblinAhFuckScary on September 22, 2022, 12:30:33 PMbeen trying to play this with my housemate and the open-world really does bog my interest a bit

sort of stopped playing games regularly over a decade ago as my adhd worsened and i just didn't find videogames rewarding enough. playing bloodborne recently was a bit of a revelation in terms of keeping me fixated and its straightforward linearity was certainly an element in keeping me driven, along with every single element just appealing to me so much

elements of elden ring are so wonderful and genuinely jaw-dropping, but it feels overly complex and stuffed and hard to focus on for me. only really managing to enjoy when my housemate is guiding me

I was pretty much the same at the start of it, whereabouts are you? I can't remember exactly where it clicked for me - probably no moment in particular, more just having leveled up enough, collected some weapons/items and understood the basic mechanics and systems (a bit overwhelming at first, but thankfully mostly analogous to the other Soulsborne games so you only really have to learn it once).

Once it did "click", though, I haven't really been able to get into any other games. It's not perfect by any means - there are entire sections I dread on each playthrough - but it becomes far less grindy the further you go and it becomes more challenging than punishing.

In the early game, I'd suggest keeping it simple. Only level up Vigor and Endurance and focus on upgrading your weapon(s) of choice. You'll get killed less, do more damage and it'll force you to explore some caves and catacombs which are usually easy enough. Don't be afraid to look stuff up - if you want a certain Smithing Stone, just look up where to find them and go there. Don't be afraid to be "overleveled" on your first playthrough either, it's not a bad way of getting used to the mechanics without dying constantly.

Good luck!

Noodle Lizard

New (free) update with Colosseum battles for PvP, including 3v3 and a mode where you can use spirit ashes.

Unfortunately I am absolutely pants at PvP, so I'm not sure how much use I'll get out of it. Big news nevertheless!

madhair60

"The open world doesn't lead to unique challenges, just different flavours of poison" seems slightly wide of the mark. One of my favourite things about Elden Ring was how each region felt so distinct. I definitely think there's space to criticise some of the dungeons, there's a fair bit of less imaginative visual design going on in those, not to mention struggling through one of them only for the give. reward to be something unusable (the real reward is in succeeding!). But at the risk of sounding slightly unreasonable I'd say that anyone who doesn't like this game - and again, I'm acutely aware this may seem misrepresentative and a little unfair - is almost certainly a paedophile.

Noodle Lizard

Quote from: madhair60 on December 14, 2022, 08:14:01 AMBut at the risk of sounding slightly unreasonable I'd say that anyone who doesn't like this game - and again, I'm acutely aware this may seem misrepresentative and a little unfair - is almost certainly a paedophile.

Oh I don't know. The Mohg storyline would surely appeal to that lot.

Thursday

It's like that old saying, not all paedophiles don't like elden ring, but all people who don't like elden ring are paedophiles.