Do Americans Think That Britain Had Slavery Like They Did?

[Zero Gravitas]

Francoapologism, saw it coming a mile off.

[Buelligan]

Jism.

Mind your eyes.

[bgmnts]

Yes, these are colonies.  Wrong, absolutely.  But not slavery.  Britain had the British Empire, you know that thing that turned the map of the world pink?  It still had colonial connections to places like Hong Kong that didn't end until the last decade of the twentieth century so, yeah, France did some appalling shit but it legally ended slavery (which we were talking about) many decades before Britain or America.

I don't think it was though, at least  it in practice. White and black slavers were still slaving in places like Haiti and other colonies after 1794 I think, and as people have said Napolean repealed it all anyway.

I think it was legitimately Britain that paved the way for abolishing slavery, and I'm about as critical of British imperialism as it gets.

[Buelligan]

There're no laurels to be gained in this competition by any imperial state, my point is simply that a peoples' revolution - the sweeping away of the ruling class by the proletariat - brought about the banning of slavery in France.  Something to think about, to be motivated by, in a world run by oligarchs and elites. 

[AllisonSays]

Although the still-robust Francafrique perhaps points towards a different history.

[Buelligan]

I'm not sure what you mean, but, just to be clear, my point has nothing to do with four legs good.  A competition between imperial powers to establish which was the nicest seems pretty poor sport - still believe Britain would come pretty low, mind. 

No, it's more to do with the idea that slavery appears to have grown naturally from ideas about born to ruleness and the acceptance of a wealthy oppressive ruling class naturally and rightly squatting at the top of societies.  Where those norms were challenged, slavery also got challenged. 

ETA or are you saying that in francophone Africa, elites and oligarchs still rule the roost?  To which I'd say, where don't they?

[Greatgringam]

Well it took Haiti about 10/15 years to overthrow the French even after the French revolution I think.

Didn't even give up Algeria til what? 60s?

Haiti in many ways still isn't free because of the poverty caused by french debt since france wanted reparations for slaves they "lost". The fact that france can still act like the spreader of egalite dumbfounds me.

Wiki for more haiti debt info https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/External_debt_of_Haiti

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cgalite
egalite
vgalite

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Yes I said we were heavily involved in the slave trade. My query is does the average American think we had slavery on a mass scale in Britain as they did the the US, for hundreds of years?
And this exact fact is what I am curious of, as to the American understanding.

Is there some way of asking them, I wonder

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The repulsive Richard Drax MP still owns the plantations in Barbados that thousands of slaves died on, working for his family.

He sounds like a mouthwash, tell him.

[Vodkafone]

One of the more depressing aspects of the oppression of Scots and Irish by the English, and the forced removal of thousands of those people from the land they had traditionally made a living from, is that many of those who were uprooted ended up in the American colonies - either as transported prisoners (the colonies were used as gulags) or seeking a new life - but then perpetrated the same 'cleansing' of the native American people in order to nab the land they had traditionally made a living from.

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Part of my family were English slave-owners, they became Barbadian slave-owners and then American slave-owners.  At one point they owned over 850 human beings.

When audio recording was invented, the sound of racking up loads of slaves was put onto tape and to this day it's used as the POW KERBRILLIANT SHAPOW GABOING sound effects in fruit machines and gambling apps.

Of course it's not a sound you hear in nature anymore as we no longer own slaves, but I can assure you it was the same.

[Dr Rock]

Is there some way of asking them, I wonder

Well there are a few American posters here right? They could help me in my wondering.

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Well there are a few American posters here right? They could help me in my wondering.

How will you summon them?

[Dr Rock]

With promises of guns and shit candy

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Ok and how will you compel them to communicate?

[Hobo With A Shit Pun]

One of the more depressing aspects of the oppression of Scots and Irish by the English, and the forced removal of thousands of those people from the land they had traditionally made a living from, is that many of those who were uprooted ended up in the American colonies - either as transported prisoners (the colonies were used as gulags) or seeking a new life - but then perpetrated the same 'cleansing' of the native American people in order to nab the land they had traditionally made a living from.

I read a lengthy history of crimes against the Aboroginal peoples of Australia, and one that particularly stuck with me saw an entire community slaughtered and fed to animals (the source wasn't clear, but there was a possible implication that that was why they'd been killed). The perpetrators were guys from Sutherland, sent over by the clearances. One had been literally burned out of his family home before shipping out.

[Video Game Fan 2000]

ETA or are you saying that in francophone Africa, elites and oligarchs still rule the roost?  To which I'd say, where don't they?

fuck me running

[AllisonSays]

I'm not sure what you mean, but, just to be clear, my point has nothing to do with four legs good.  A competition between imperial powers to establish which was the nicest seems pretty poor sport - still believe Britain would come pretty low, mind. 

No, it's more to do with the idea that slavery appears to have grown naturally from ideas about born to ruleness and the acceptance of a wealthy oppressive ruling class naturally and rightly squatting at the top of societies.  Where those norms were challenged, slavery also got challenged. 

ETA or are you saying that in francophone Africa, elites and oligarchs still rule the roost?  To which I'd say, where don't they?

I guess very broadly I'd say that in the case of Haiti for instance the contested abolition of slavery has continued to exist alongside massive economic and social repression by French economic elites. But I guess we are probably saying the same thing!

[checkoutgirl]

Anyway we had serfs, which were pretty close

And an empire where the locals were robbed from and sometimes starved to death en mass. Whatever though you never did slavery. Whoopee!!

It's really a pointless distinction.

[checkoutgirl]

There were Irish starving to death who would have loved to be slaves. At least slaves got a few meals and some shelter as they were their master's property and rich people look after their property.

I think Queen Victoria donated 500 quid and 10 squirrels to the famine relief effort so that's nice.

[Buelligan]

Don't worry checkoutgirl, the British definitely did slavery as well.  Big time.

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I hope that when the energy prices go up there will be an option to become enslaved instead 🤞

[jamiefairlie]

I read a lengthy history of crimes against the Aboroginal peoples of Australia, and one that particularly stuck with me saw an entire community slaughtered and fed to animals (the source wasn't clear, but there was a possible implication that that was why they'd been killed). The perpetrators were guys from Sutherland, sent over by the clearances. One had been literally burned out of his family home before shipping out.

Any history of how the people we call Aboriginal cleansed the land of those that were there before them? It's a pattern that's played out throughout time and is embedded in human nature. The only difference is the outcome, always winners and losers. There are no noble savages or demonic white people, just human beings being driven by primal instincts.

[Buelligan]

My cousin is married to an Australian First Nations person.  Her mother and her mother's sisters were taken from their family and kept in a church basement for years, made to do laundry and any other work demanded of them, no time off and when work was over, they were locked up again in the basement.  Their father wasn't even permitted to return to the place of his birth to die - something that was extremely important to his tribe.  I know none of them ever did any of that shit to anyone else, white or not.

[checkoutgirl]

There are no noble savages or demonic white people, just human beings being driven by primal instincts.

A perpetual daisychain of folk beating and burning and fucking each other to death.

[Hobo With A Shit Pun]

Any history of how the people we call Aboriginal cleansed the land of those that were there before them?

No, 'cos they've been there for fifty thousand years, and there was no one there. Several massive marsupials were a goner, though.

[touchingcloth]

I'd bloody love a slave.

No, not really. But I wonder, if I put an ad in my local paper's classified, asking for a slave for a day, what kind of response I would get. Especially if I added "no prostitutes, please".

[Vodkafone]

Any history of how the people we call Aboriginal cleansed the land of those that were there before them? It's a pattern that's played out throughout time and is embedded in human nature. The only difference is the outcome, always winners and losers. There are no noble savages or demonic white people, just human beings being driven by primal instincts.

Well obviously not, because that was pre-history. But we can't say "there's no proof that they didn't, therefore they did", that would be bollocks.

One of the notable features of the accounts of European colonists is how they just couldn't understand the lives of the people they wiped out and enslaved. As well as the pernicious term 'savages', another one that crops up all the time is 'idle'. Because native people in a lot of the world had subsistence lifestyles that did not require them to be toiling all day, they had quite a bit of leisure time. To English, Germans, Belgians etc. in the 18th century and onwards, this was incomprehensible. Why were they not working all day? This was seen as sinful and degenerate and so it was an easy matter to treat those people like non-humans. You only have to look at the Tory party (cf. Britannia Unchained) to see that this mentality persists to this day.

[Buelligan]

There are no noble savages or demonic white people, just human beings being driven by primal instincts.

You know, I'm sorry, this has slightly got my old goat, it's not at all personal but I feel like it's a pernicious dishonest get out of jail free card constantly laid down by cunts, their apologists and the brainwashed.   And it's the duty of everyone who sees the lie to say so.

It's not primal, it's not normal to murder and torture and steal.  It's not understandable and boys will not be boys.  No amount of shrugging makes it alright.

There are and have been throughout time, millions, millions, of gentle, kind, good-hearted, open humans beings - we are not destined to behave like demons.  And it's long past time we stopped pretending so to excuse the monstrous behaviour of utter cunts just because they happen to have the same eye colour or genitalia as us or because we want them to pick on someone else.

ETA - I think reading this deeply disturbing and upsetting article probably prompted my particular rage this morning - https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-62486918